tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with acclaimed writer khaled hosseini, whose first novel, about life inner" afghanistan became an international bestseller. he is back with a new novel, "and the mountains echoed." also, a conversation with british singer emeli sande," and her latest is called "our version of events," and it is climbing the charts. we are glad you could join us right now. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can

stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. coming to grips with what it means to see your homeland torn apart by war has been at the heart of the work done by khaled hosseini, and he became an international best selling author, and now, after six years, he has written his third novel, "and the mountains echoed," which once again

returns to the themes of war and family. nice to have you back. >> thanks for having me. tavis: this title comes in part from a rather well known poem, a word.tweaked >> yes, it was "and all the hills echoed." there are mountains and afghanistan. it is known for its mountains, and the mountains in this book to figure rather prominently. there are several travels in which people are traveling across the desert. and afghanistan is known for that sort of talk biography. i changed the wording. it was inspired by blake, although that is not the actual wording. tavis: since you mentioned typography, i know that afghanistan is always a central character in your novels. we will come back to that, but how does the typography, how

does the geography play in this particular novel? >> well, there is a number of passages in the book where characters are actually travelling across the country and happen to whether the elements and typography, crossing mountains, and, in fact, the book begins with a fable, where one of the characters makes this rather difficult journey and ends up climbing mountains, and so on, so it is a recurring image in the book, and what i loved about the problem is the word eco. -- echo. there are things that happen in the novel that go throughout the story and how far-reaching consequences, so the ark of the story. tavis: this might seem like a pretty simple question, maybe even a silly question, but let me ask it anyway. why after three novels are you still fascinated by your homeland, afghanistan?

>> well, it is a huge part of who i am. how iso central to understand myself, how i have come to understand my life, the people around me, my community. it is a massive part of my identity. that is not always to say this i will always right about afghanistan, but the thing that has spoken to me with great urgency so far in my career have been things that have to do with people in afghanistan. tavis: one thing you're novels are good of not doing is proselytizing, and yet, one of the ways that people can come to terms with it, how do i put this, come to terms with maybe even revel in the humanity of the other is through novels, because is it is written in the right way, if the narrative has the right texture to it, you can i withoutow and afghan

having to travel to afghanistan, and maybe what you hear on the news starts to taste a little different to you because you have read one of the khaled hosseini novels. whether you deliberately want us to look at afghanistan through a different prism as you write about it in your novels. >> i guess honorable and noble thing to say it would be that i really want to do that, that i want to the people understand afghanistan better, but that would be disingenuous, but what has drawn me to writing is character, and it is story. it is something that becomes a pebble in my shoe, a voice that i cannot get rid of, and i have to see it through and resolve this puzzle, resolve this dilemma, but i would also be very truthful to say that i am deeply pleased and, in fact, a deeply honored that one of the unintended byproducts of my riding has been that it has

provided a window into this kind of enigmatic land for a lot of people in the west, certainly people in the u.s., and have helped them to seek a more humane side, perspective, on this country that is otherwise painted as this chronically troubled, at war, conflicted nation, so i think novelists, when they are right, their book ends up having, occasionally serving a purpose and playing roles that they never really fully either intended or even understood. of thathat do you make reality? my analogy, not yours, at a moment when it seems to me, at least, and i think the polls bear this out, that americans have afghanistan fatigue. if we sell hamid karzai one more time, we are sick of this guy, with all due respect. on any given day, you do not know if he is with us or against

us or likes us or loads us. us.oathes they do not have khaled hosseini fatigue. what do you make of that the economy? >> i think the government of afghanistan and its well- publicized shortcomings, including the president, i do not think are reflective of the people of afghanistan foley. alternately, books are not about politics, although the struggle and the wars in afghanistan have a significant impact on the lives of my characters. my books are about ordinary people, like you, me, people on the street, people who really have an expectation of reasonable happiness in life, what they're like to have a certain security and predictability, who want to belong to something bigger than them, who want to love and affection in their lives, who want a good future for their children. that is not an afghans seemed.

that is a human theme, and i think my readers see themselves in these characters and see a part of themselves in the lives of these characters, ms. reality is so different from my own. tavis: speaking of characters, let's go deeper in the novel now. you always come back to family, in one way shape or form. you have got one book about boys, basically, and then one book about girls, basically, and now a book about siblings, a boy and a girl. why family for you? >> it is so central to life in afghanistan. i spent the first 11 years of my life in afghanistan, and my character, for better or worse, was formed there, and you are never alone in afghanistan. you are always in the company of others, usually family. you do to understand yourself really as an individual.

you understand yourself as part of something bigger than yourself, and so family is so central to your identity, to how you make sense of your world that you have it ruptured, to have its split apart, to have, you know, some kind of catastrophe visited upon it is dramatic, and therefore, an amazing source of storytelling, a source of fiction to me. so i return to that theme again and again. it just speaks to me on such a deep level. tavis: so we know about the boy. we know about the girl. those are international bestsellers. tell us about "and the mountains echoed," about the boy and the girl. >> there is a trunk to the tree, and there is this relationship between a boy and his little sister. we need them when he is 10, she is 3, and they live in a small

village in afghanistan, very impoverished, and when the book opens, they are on their way to kabul with their father, the two of them, and they do not know why, but what happens there ends up separating the boy from his beloved sister, and that act of rupture between these two characters has echoes and ripples throughout the book, and there are some characters who are not even born yet, and there is this trial, and then there are all of these branches that come from it, and i followed all of these voices that may have been affected by this. tavis: it is funny. usually you see a novel, maybe not usually, but oftentimes, more often than not, i read a novel, and the part that you do not want to give away is at the end of the book. in your case -- >> it is right in the beginning. that. i am glad you said

it is unusual. >> it is unusual, and this book is unusual in another way, as well, and the book introduces another major character at the end, and that is another one of the no no's, that you do not announce a major character at the end of the book, unless you are writing a sequel, which i am not. the book is like a choir in that you are not following the story of one character. it is a non-traditional kind of narrative and that each character in this big canvas is granted a chance to speak their perspective, and so the effect that i wanted was to listen to a choir, but by putting an year to each individual voice, -- putting an ear to each individual voice. that is what i hope they get out of it. tavis: white brick rules of writing and introduce a major

character near the end? >> i think part of it is that i do not know a whole lot about writing. i write very instinctively, and i mean that instinctively, because i was never trained as a writer. i do not know the nuts and bolts of writing. i studied medicine. i was a premed nerds. everything i know about writing is very instinctive, so for me, i wanted to bring the book to a close, and i wanted the book to have a sense of symmetry, but i wanted to do it in a way where it was not predictable, in a way that would up and your expectations, so it seemed to me like the right way to do it. tavis: it will, it will upend your expectations, and all of us would be so lucky to know nothing about writing and put out three bestsellers. the latest from khaled hosseini, echoed," and,ains

of course, you know his other, "the kite runner." --ing up, there emeli sande singer emeli sande. stay with us. to say things are heating up, the british born singer, songwriter emeli sande, she has been dominating the british charts, outselling adelle, and let's take a look at emeli frome, singing "next to me" that project. ♪ >> when this guys are great and all the doors are closing, when all i need is to stop the tears from falling, i will find them, i will find the next to me. next to me oo oo next to me

oo oo next to me oo oo i will find them, i will find them next to me ♪ tavis: i am curious about your last name. >> sande. it is my father's name. he is from zambia. it is his. tavis: you grew up in scotland, and that was like what? >> i felt like an outsider. we were the only mixed-race family in the village. when my dad moved into the town, it was actually in the local paper. ."frican teacher tavis: are you serious? "black man come to town, be where."

-- beware." >> i felt different from everybody, and i think that is what i found such a big world in music, as a kid, but i love to the piano, and that is where i felt at home. tavis: that is where you went to forceless and to get away. >> yes, it was very quiet until i got the piano. weekends, lunch breaks, before school, after school, i was just making music. tavis: i heard your voice first, and then i read like one of your major influences, and i said, ok, now i see why i like her so much. does not get the love or respects she deserves. >> she gets the love and respect from me. my dad introduced me to her when i was about eight. he played me a song called "the

king of love is dead," and it changed my life hearing that song and the way she played. i did not know if it was a man or a woman or where she was from, but it just brought me alive, and since then, i have aspired to her artistry. tavis: what is it about her voice or her artistry -- i am curious about what it is that so moved you as an artist? >> for me, until then, i loved the big vocalists. she came along, and it was all about the tone, and it was all about the subtlety of how she delivered one word, and suddenly, the lyrics were important. it was those subtle changes and the poetry. it was the poetry of everything that really moved me. tavis: tell me, i am always fascinated, particularly these days, because so much of what we hear is like retrograde.

so much what we hear sounds the same. >> right. tavis: you hear one artist, and if you want to be a success, you want to sound like an artist who is already a success. it is difficult to have their own songs styling, their own sound. you are an original. you are not a copy. you are an original, and i am wondering how that happens for you. i suspect that with a voice as big as yours, you could have sounded like someone else. what about being an original? it was important to me to write. i was writing my own material. i was so shy and so quiet, and the only time i had my voice and could really connect with people was when i was singing or was on stage, so it was a very unique voice for me. if i was singing for someone

else, it was almost like expressing myself for someone else. it was an original thing for me. it is my voice. it is my diary. it is my way i connect with people. i was not intentionally try to create my own path or a be original. it was just that i needed to say things and express myself, and that is how it came out. tavis: tell me about this on. a lot of people with good voices does not mean they will be great at that. tell us about writing. >> songwriting is my main thing. i know i will do that for the rest of my life. the singing, i do not know. when the voice runs out. tavis: you consider yourself a songwriter? >> yes, i was a writer before i was singing. people like joni mitchell and carol king. storytellers, people who could change the world. no matter who sung the song,

they were still the source of that message, and that is what i aim for. people whomentioned could change the world with their storytelling. narrative works. again, not everything has to be socially redemptive, so why the call for you to use the word miracle continent at some point, in some way, to change the world? >> well, i do not know if i am as ambitious to change the world, but i do feel -- the reason i had the version of the bands is that i feel the a lot of people are not represented in pop music and popular culture, and i wanted to find a way to speak for people. so many people spoke for me as a kid and made me feel less invisible, and i wanted kids or whoever was listening to my music not to feel so voiceless. tavis: you entered, so i have to follow you in, emily. who do think is underrepresented or who you are speaking for?

>> i do not know if it is a specific group of people, but people who come to my shows are people who feel like outsiders. they are, like, i do not feel sexy. i cannot go out every night on friday, and i cannot connect, and i feel so much pressure to do that, so i feel there are people from so many different ages. you need kids who have been through crazy childhoods. some have connected to these lyrics. olds, letters from 70-year- saying, "that reminds me of my husband's." it is a gift for me, and it is amazing that people have connected in that way. tavis: have you figured out, at least for yourself, what it is about that lyrical content? what'd is about your style that allows a song to work for a seven-year-old as well as for a

70-year-old? >> i do not know. when i write a song that comes quickly, and my ego is removed from the process, those are the songs that really seemed to resonate with people, because it is not about me, trying to get on the charts or anything like that. i do not know where these songs come from, but i definitely feel it is as a very spiritual process, and people connect. spirituals. tavis: i started this conversation off, and everybody is saying the same thing about you, that you are blowing up on the charts here, like you have been doing in europe for some time. how are you processing this now that it is happening for you in the state's? >> i came over here with the mindset that we're starting from the very beginning. it is exciting. every tiny thing that happens, i am excited, and it is important for me to be over here and

connected, and be an artist to can connect worldwide, so i am excited. tavis: we are on the inside, and you have been on the outside, so i am curious about anything you find about the process, or the "pro" cess, as you would say, about being here as opposed to someone else in the world? >> well, the scale. for you, it is massive. tavis: is it harder? >> it is harder in some ways, thinking about how many different places you need to go. you sometimes feel like a very small drop in a huge ocean, and then people really noticed that there is a real attention to melody over year, and there is such a history of soul music that goes back and back and back, and gospel music. it is easier.

tavis: i am glad you said that, because you are right about the first part, that there is a history in this country of melody. melody, you used a word earlier about making people invisible. melody is becoming more and more invisible in this country, and part of what people are relating to is that, and your things of melody. >> the first thing that comes teammate, i learned piano classically first, and that i went to seoul, and then the melody has always been first, so important. especially insoul, countries in europe, where people do not have english as the first language, they are connecting with melody, and that can be more powerful. tavis: i have asked this question to any number of artists that have been trained classically and then discovered what ever else they were doing, whether it was jazz or rhythm- and-blues or pop.

for you, the benefit of having been trained on piano classically first? is melody.it it is appreciation and attention to detail, of phrasing and those sorts of things, studying the greats, studying the people that made music, 300 years, 400 years. that is the ultimate pop. that is music that is not going away, and i think having met standards set for you at such a young age can only inspire you to want to do that. tavis: is her father still living? >> yes. tavis: so he made news by going to the village, and you are making news around the world. i am interested. what is dad saying about all of this excess? >> you know, he is a proud african man. he gets emotional, it is a big deal. he is very proud, and he is very happy, and he is happy that he

has been such a massive part of the journey. tavis: and we are all be better for it. congratulations on your success, your first time on the program, but i hope not the last. emeli sande. "our version of events." you will want to remember the name. you'll be hearing it a lot. >> thank you. tavis: that is our show for tonight. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with playwright and activist eve ensler about her new book, "in the body of the world." that is next time, and we will see you then. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate

hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.

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