tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley.tonight a conversation with reddish actor david harewood from the series "homeland," where he played the ill-fated director. he plays paul robeson in an upcoming movie. he was one of the most acclaimed and vilified artists of his time. david harewood coming up right now. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s.

as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: british-born actor david ofewood has made something a career by playing man who challenged the status quo. he played nelson mandela for the bbc and enlist the king, junior .- mountaimartin luther king, jr robeson was the first actor of american -- african-american

heritage to play of fellow. -- othello. good to see you. >> what year did he do a othello? >> 25. let's start with that since you raised it. king, robeson. i have spent time with mandela. i have been fortunate to be in the air of mandela. let's take them one at a time. playing nelson mandela for the bbc. tell me about that experience. >> i was fortunate in that i was working on a set somewhere in hungary. i got the job with enough time so i could read " long walk to

fortunate i i was could have all this time to get to know who this guy was. the name obviously comes up all the time and people think that they know these people. only when you start to investigate their lives, i was astonished that this man had achieved so much and was still so unbelievably gracious and humorous. he managed to completely bury his anger, completely bury his hatred of other and was able to understand and i was really blown away from -- by his capacity to understand. >> on a personal level, what do you make of that? i think you are right. for anyone who has spent a time -- anytime or read about him, the thing that is the most humbling is with all he endured,

he is not bitter, he is kind to a fault. on a human level, what do you make of that? >> it shows a true statesman. unfortunately we are living in a -- i think now that it lacks statesman. people who are prepared to reach across the aisle, reach out and take the hand of opponents and say, look, this is not getting us anywhere. we need to know in a different direction. and i think that speaks of a be our times. it is very sad. we are living in perhaps a very adversarial era when it comes to politics or leadership. i think that is pretty sad. tavis: i wonder whether or not you think the times, the conditions that we live in now arel have the capacity -- the ingredients still there to create the kind of statesman and

states women that we have known and celebrated historically or is mandela part of a i gone era? >> i would say i think it is part of a bygone era. maybe it is because we are .iving in so much information everyone is a critic. everyone can go online and read about something and have an opinion. where is in those days we really did leave it to our leaders to lead us, to help us through difficult times. i'm not sure whether we are so desperate now. an interlocutor. i can go online and find a thousand people who think the same as me. i am not wrong. it is a very different world we're living in now. in terms of information and sharing that information. i think it is a very difficult place to leave right now. >> tavis: the viewers of this

program now, i think dr. king is the greatest american we have produced. we can debate fdr. for my money, given where he started and given that the only weapon he ever used was love. the story, you have played him. i would regard him as the biggest american this country has produced. not black american, american. i saw the play on broadway. i did not see the run in london, obviously. what was the experience for you like playing dr. king? >> again you are dealing with an icon. so was mandela. it is only when as an actor, as in artist i'm interested in humanizing and making -- taking , takingople from ideas

these people out of the realm of this area. kindimage of untouchable of icon and making them flesh and blood. i thought the way served that pretty well. i am not sure about the american one. one of the strong points of our production was that i think people kind of did not realize how funny king could be. they are not used to having humor and king in the same kind of sentence. i think we were very kind of -- we were able to weave in lots of laughter. i think people kind of turned up expecting to see this historical piece and it would be kind of -- had this very stoic kind of church and it was anything but. a very, very funny piece.

the play was extremely irreverent. but in doing so, i think it was she disarming, and i think was very honest and she said to me that many theaters in america said no way. absolutely no way. it was a very different look at martin luther king. i think it was too much for many theaters. when the play debuted in london, people were coming from america ad kind of -- finding it refreshing evening in the theater. not only could they laugh and remember the man that it was a different -- slightly different look at the man, more human. tavis: how did the play get reviewed in london? i am glad you went there but as you well know it was controversial here in the states. we can talk about that in a second. i have my own thoughts about it.

it was controversial here. this is his birthplace. london is not. but how was it played in the media, how did the critics treat the play? olivier forwon the best new play. evil were genuinely blown away. they had never heard that type of -- people were genuinely blown away. they had never heard that type of dialogue. it was very irreverent. it took no prisoners. i find that incredibly freeing. it with verve as an actor. i went for the voice and i went -- i tried to play up his humor. this was a man in a room with a beautiful young girl. i think martin luther was .enowned, had other women

people knew about that. some people did not know about that. hee people were going, i should not be flirting with that girl, he is a reverend. why should he not be flirting? he is a man. i tried to take those icon pointers out of the question and tried to play him as a human being. about his you earlier graciousness. tavis: share with me your thoughts about king the man. could anybody nonviolently oppose such a violent people who wanted to do to him no good whatsoever. he did it with grace and poise and he did it with beautiful poetry, wonderful speeches. laidng mandela -- i had

mandela months before and he was known for his great speeches. they were great but they were very long. and they were brilliantly written create they were not as poetic. they were not as beautiful. his prose was extraordinary. when i see this, the address at the lincoln memorial, you get shivers. i can watch that and just think how on earth could anything -- any man speech with such power, such passion. tavis: there are too many folks who would take me to task on

this. ,s brilliant as that was before it was not his best stuff. dicdo not get me wrong. >> the actual mountaintop itself. tavis: vietnam, around midnight. there ar is some powerful stuff. >> when you come from the church as a preacher and you segue into politics. it gives u.s. -- a wonderful sense of oratory. tavis: he did this every sunday at his church create -- at his church. this is vintage martin luther king every sunday. you think that is the best he ever did, you have to dig deeper into his stuff. it is fascinating as we get to august of this year to talk about martin luther king 50 years later especially in the air of obama.

here is where we have a segue .o bergeson -- robeson what is fascinating is going to be how we navigate this moment later this year. i raise this because my friend cornell west -- >> he is quite an outspoken critic. many: we have had so conversations about this issue. give me a minute to set this up. you will appreciate this. a few you years ago, every year there is an official mandela lecture in south africa. and so some world-renowned figure is asked to give the mandela lecture annually in joburg. asked to give the mandela lecture and he delivered the address. he used a phrase in that speech that has been picked up a lot -- by a lot of people and been sic dissected.

he referred to what was happening to mandela as the santa clausification of nelson mandela. what he meant is you can imagine. as we get away from mandela's time and tenure, we start to look at him like he is some sort of santa claus figure with a big smile and a bag of toys on his back. what we end up doing is we end up taming and deodorizing and defanging who he was. he is gracious and kind. everyone wants to be a fan but do you know who this man really was, what this man really stood for, the same could be said of dr. king. ificynt to santa claus

king. we stick with this notion of king being a dreamer as we do not want to get to that. it will be fascinating later this year to get a sense of how the country in the air of the first by president is going to navigate who king really was 50 years later. >> that is true. i think it will be interesting to see how they respond to that. it is also one of the reasons why i think people are reluctant to have me play king here. in america. it was maybe too much for the producers, maybe they did not think the audience would accept it. i think if i am not mistaken, i

thatble to go to places were not only funny but also poignant and moving. the whole thing. were you offended in any way when they passed on you for the broadway production? i think it was supposed to be halle. bassett plays the motel jackson playsl l. martin luther king. i wa>> he is such a big name. broadway is a strange place right now. a showe in order to get on board you have to have a big movie star in your play.

there are countless fantastic actors out there who are being denied the opportunity because the are not a named. -- they are not a named. . tavis: we love that british accent. what iseeing now happening to mandela. we will see later this year what happens to king. which brings us to the third person in this trilogy. dr. kingrlier i regard as the greatest leader this country has produced. paul robeson was a bad man. he just does not -- he is not as robeson is accompanied

it person. he stood in his truth. from that perspective he is not a very controversial figure. standing in his truth led to all kinds of controversies. actors of greatest our time happen to be harry tier.onte and sidney poirie with harryit belafonte and not have him wax --tic about paul roberson paul robeson. there is a whole bunch of folks who he impacted in a major way. let me flip it on you and say wipe played paul robeson and what is it you want us to get us with with the paul robeson

you're coming to know? >> i am constantly amazed when i tell people that i am playing , who?n, they go that someone of that age and knew him fairmount about what america -- like american history, i had no idea that he existed and he opened up pandora's box. .e was at rutgers a wonderful athlete, wonderful singer. a wonderful actor. it was mind blowing to me. i had no idea who this guy was and why i had heard so little .bout him

i am always hearing about malcolm x, all the great leaders had -- i had not heard about this guy. i was always really amazed at andcapacity to understand sympathize, empathize with the idea of struggle. the idea of humanity. if you are a welsh worker in the hills of cardiff for a chinese worker in beijing. he felt he had to go on spore -- speak on their behalf. someone had to stand up for these people. i suppose it is unfortunate that out to be ats him kind of communist or socialist. i am sure many people in that era felt that model of political understanding seem to be different from every capitalist

david dog kind of system. i think he felt that was the correct way that they treated him better. and when people are being lynched here and you have people inviting him to sing and perform in europe and around the world. he is treated like a king. he would be treated like a second-class citizen. >> and to be blackballed and have your brilliant artistic genius shutdown. over your political views. it is untenable. >> they took his passport away. he was followed. spanners into his relationship with the double it -- and delay cp.

this was an attempt to discredit and destroy him by the establishment. i think that is one of the reasons why he is not more well known. the more the story is told the more it piles on the authorities. he has been vindicated of every single charge. .avis: the stories they have i have a couple minutes left and i want to get back to the cia character that you did play on "homeland" before they killed you off. we had gone through a very contentious senate debate about has been approved as our c.i.a. director. did you follow any of that? >> i like to read about american politics. it is a very contentious issue.

sometimes i am not sure where i stand. " i didarching "homeland come across things that -- all of them said at some point, you will be glad that there is somebody standing in line -- and your lined a fire -- your line of fire protecting you. . kind of want to say go ahead i trust you to protect me. tavis: the real debate in you target do american citizens, what about killing women and children? of a guy in the desert with a joystick like he is playing a game. killing people 10 million miles away. hand tod to have to be

hand, face-to-face combat and you had put something on the line to fight this war. it is agot through but fascinating conversation to have. >> in the second world war, literally thousands of men died every day. -- would never put our people -- i do not think people would do that. it is easy to throw bombs and rocks. tavis: it is impressive to know that you played mandela and king and robeson. if you want to impress me give me a real black man running the cia. , maybe.president c.i.a. director, not so sure. an honor to have you here. good to have you here. that is our show for tonight. until next time, keep the faith. man river ♪ ♪ he must know something but

don't say nothin ♪ ♪e keeps on rolling along soon forgotten ♪ just keepsiver, he rolling along ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation about the mental health system in america. that is next time. we will see you then. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about

halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.

it's budget crunch time in sacramento. with governor jerry brown and lawmakers split over where to save or spend the surplus. more questions and still no answers about the bay bridge's scheduled labor day opening. >> it is plausible it would make sense to replace some of the other bolts after the bridge. is the america's cup too dangerous? the sailing competition under turmoil after a fatal accident. plus sfmoma. we hear about the museum's major expansion project. >> we wanted to move out into the community in a robust