tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight a conversation with grammy winner india arie. critics credit her with trying to revive r&b. we glad -- we are glad you joined us for a conversation with india arie and a performance. it a beautiful day, and i can't stop myself from smiling, and i know there's no denying ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> for more information on with her eclectic mix of styles, india arie always defies classification. she just released her latest. indiatake a look at singing a cut from her new song. cocoaour love is like

butter on my heart ♪ ♪ your touches like cocoa butter up on my heart ♪ you are like cocoa butter on my heart ♪ bruised ♪t was roos ♪ that's what happens when you use it ♪ so long, theay for site became familiar ♪ ♪ your love came in like a natural healer ♪ tavis: you all missed that. at the end she said, hey. i said hey when i saw you at the beginning of the video.

whethertalking about it seemed like 40 years to you. -- like four years to you. did it feel like four years to you? that is a long time. why do you do that? >> i need to get myself together. to allow the transformation about what is happening to happen. i need time to get my health together. i need time to get my emotional health together. i need time to catch up with myself. i did not feel right about the way things were. to your point about not feeling right about the way things were, how does an artist avoid that kind of turnout? -- are now? >> i do not know.

my hope is that i will figure it out. i make decisions based on what i want to do, everything. artists need people around them to help get there. you need your people. , your mother. you need your people. you cannot lay all the instruments by yourself. you cannot be your own manager, so you need your people, and everyone is always having an opinion. that is what human beings do. when you are the person focused on, you get lost by yourself. decisions.wn they know the decision is mine. i kind of grew into womanhood with all these voices.

every decision you make puts you in this moment right now. i hope i got it right. tavis: it is one thing to navigate disparate feelings from the people in your world. i did not know the first time i read it, but the story was circulating about you becoming a lighter. to the white people, i lost

them. negroes understand this is a big deal. i suspect michael jackson is the most famous african-american artist subjected to these conversations about whether he was bleaching his skin for whatever purposes. michael jackson had to navigate this many years and had his own response about skin disease, look like the fame india i have always known. -- the same india i have always known. it was painful for me to have to watch you endure that. >> i want to thank you. it is nice to know you care about me like that.

you do not want people to turn on you. i get it. i was surprised at the attention. i was surprised i had negative it turned. it made me think about it. i was skipping over a lot of steps about color resentment -- but what itm, came down to, i decided not to defend myself, because i knew my reputation speaks for itself, and it has all died down now. the other part was about worthiness. can you see that? zoom in on that necklace. tell me about this.

>> for the caucasians, there is colorism, and you were treated as worth more or worth less based on how light or dark you but there are still challenges whoever you are. being gay or being a woman or being black. this is the time you can find your own worth. it is not sustainable. it is not going to give you a beautiful life. it is time to start healing. not that it heals everything.

things have changed enough where we can start redefining where we are in so many ways. >> we do not control this kind we have no control. you do have to find your way to navigate through it. i am curious as to how you why or how something that vicious could be said about , why something that is so historically laden could be leveled against you. sometimes i ask myself, why me, and why this?

my work is not determined by the price of my clothes. india arie. she would never do this. do you process why or how something like this happens to you, given the whole image you project? >> it got really negative. negative. just it was vitriolic. people were cursing me. they were cursing me out. i never asked her in anything like it in real life. a spiritual level, the question always is why. outwant to get your lessons

of it. there is a blessing in every lesson. i want to figure out how to answer your question. this is not what i think about society. what i came to is about judgment. i do what i do the way that i do it, and that is my choice. everything i do is to bring a contribution to society because it felt good to me. i do not know that i did it

publicly, but in my private conversations when i am talking about the world and the state of judge peopleld who did not have my philosophy about words and music. , and i judge people feel like a lot of that is because it made it harder to do what i do. truly believe because of the way my life has gone and my career, but all my hard days i would you like why? somebody whose values i believe .n, it is human they were judging me to be someone i would judge and stop me from understanding the back story or my and tension.

glowed. the backdrop was metallic. i just wanted it to be luminous like the allegory for a spiritual life. for me it was being feminine and strong. ,hat is not how i got judged so when i had bad clarity it was an epiphany that changed everything in that regard. now i always say, you never know what their intention was. you do not know. i say this a lot, and i think that was my spiritual lesson. i hope it was. when ing i did say is said i was not going to defend myself, it did just die away.

that was cool. been ofe it would have the trail in the worst way. andlked to my at angelo opera. they never -- i talk about the oprah.-- d'angelo and tavis: how about the next project? >> there is one that talks about your spiritual light and how it shows on the outside. that means a lot to me. the title.ve

how did that come about? >> i thought about it for a long time. i was trying to find a moniker for my performance style. i have a lot to say, and i want to share. earlier in my career i felt like i had to get it out fast, and i felt like, if you build it they will come. i thought about it for a long time. mes whole four years for was about figuring out how to do this in a way that i love and that feels good to me. but everything was so much of a challenge. conversationoing

performances for years. i started to name my album "songversation peer quote i had been traveling the world. i was standing in my kitchen when i felt it coming out of -- coming out of my stomach. it made perfect sense. i had another album i was working on for three years. this really encompasses my whole journey. there is also a "songversation" happening with the music itself. all that stuff you hear is real. in istanbul.ve >> me to.

a woman was talking to me and saying, you should come to turkey. it was crazy. i had never thought about it. water and food and culture. i said, are you a musician? she said, yes. this lady was amazing, and she looked gorgeous. i said, i am a singer- songwriter, two. she said, do you love gladys knight? it turns out she had a voice similar to gladys knight. i set my idol is stevie wonder. sheays, he has a new song out, and she starts singing the song i wrote with tv wonder.

-- with stevie wonder. she started crying, and i started crying. she said, you have to come to istanbul. she had sold 70 million cds. who knew? i listened to it. i wanted what i make to encompass the rest of the world. in the music industry you are black or you are white. i decided to do "songversation peer quote i called her, and she said .nything india is doing in five days she was in and out

of the studio. we were in and out of this idea learning how to play turkish flute. tavis: she gave you that ring. she was like my mom. i was taking flute lessons. she would take out his hand and say, i am her mom. she would wash it off every time. i love her. i love the instrumentation. was indiaed to hear arie. i am glad i got to hear that. the music business moves at the speed of light. if you take years to come back,

you could be forgotten or people trying to reinvent them selves. sounds like india. after four years i did not know what to expect. made me realize if open- door had come out now you might have been confused. i feel like it had its day. then it would be something a little bit different. i was singing in different languages. i think you will love it. i was singing in hebrew. it was still my voice, but i was singing in hebrew and english. i am honored it happened this way. it hurt. >> fans can be tough.

i know about the integrity that is required to be true to your own art. the fans if they had their way you would be singing the same songs every night. >> you are never allowed to grow. everybody who is a fan of yours know that you enjoy stevie wonder. how cool is it to write a song ?e recorded >> i do not have words to explain. he gave me the melody. he said, this is what i wanted to be about, and i took it home.

, please let me finish it all today. i sent it to him, and i did not hear from him. he has my song, and i want to to awhat is up, so i went studio and said, i recorded it, and i got lightheaded. it was a moment, and he said, do you want to sing it with me? yes, i do. my favorite part is the background vocals. we sound just the light.

>> the new project it is more than worth the wait. great cover, great stuff on the project. to say goodbye as i do every night. break the shell, a song inspired by cecily tyson. she just one a tony award. trip to bountiful. i am looking forward to seeing it. that is our show for tonight. --d night rum los angeles, from los angeles, and as always, keep the faith.

dark as the night, she could see into my soul. ♪ she had been watching and had some advise ♪ ♪ she said showers -- shadows make you whole ♪ ♪ if you listen, you will find a goal ♪ ♪ life going to hurt, but it's meant to be felt ♪ ♪ you cannot fly until you break the shell ♪ [applause]

>> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with grace lee boggs. that is next time. we will see you then. day, ands a beautiful i cannot stop myself from smiling ♪ ♪ and i know there's no denying ♪ ♪ it's a beautiful day ♪ ♪ if it started raining, you won't hear this or a complaining -- this toy complaining -- boy complaining ♪ ♪ it's a beautiful day ♪ >> and by contributions to your

pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. ♪bs. ♪

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