tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley.a conversation with the incomparable rance allen. decades ofing four making music. he has released a new cd and dvd entitled "amazing grace." this is our 10th season, we are introducing to -- to you to some of the folks who make this program possible. he is name like that, from st. louis. his mother named him after miles davis. danny, a blessing to have you on our team.

said anybody can be serve.but anybody can it is a blessing to serve here. we have a conversation with the gospel great bishop rance allen. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminating hunger and we have work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

tavis: his history with gospel music begin some 40 years ago. it became the first gospel group -- he has merged gospel music with r&b, creating a new sound that others have followed. he has recently released a cd grace"vd called "amazing . take a look at a performance captured in the great documentary. his combination of gospel and r&b turned the l.a. coliseum upside down that day.

♪ ♪ tavis: rance allen, get down. lover whoo is a music has not seen that, they have not lived. if you do not have the dvd in your collection, you are shortchanging yourself. you have to get a copy of this.

this is an iconic moment in black music history. you were there as a gospel group on the stage just ripping it at the coliseum. i know the back story. you almost did not make it that day. >> the plane left us. we were late. that is how that works. if you do not show up, they leave you. >> instead of going back home, he and the brothers decided to pray. you know who i am spiritually. god sent that lane back so we could get on it -- the plane back so we could get on it. 40 years later, i am still amazed when i see that clip. tavis: the plane took off and they came back. >> they had problems with the

toilet. you were not going to make it, but they had a problem with the toilet in the air and they turned back around. it took off again and you got on stage. bucks we were scheduled for coach. --n it came back tavis: you got in first class when you came to l.a. a conversation that folk inside the gospel arena have talked about for years. the pushback you originally got because of your sound. i walked into the studio today and went into the makeup room to see my makeup artist and sheila was bumping fred hammond. everybody loves fred hammond. kirk franklin.

just run the list. >> all of them. tavis: i love them all, but before all of them, you were changing the sound. the message was there, but you were changing the sound. started, -- when we started, gospel music was somewhat restricted. push the not parameters. brothers, we lived in munro, michigan, 33 miles south of detroit. motown was in detroit. we were teenagers just holding on waiting for the next 45.

we were raised in a church where we had to go every night. necessaryr thought it that we do something musically such as singing and playing to keep us interested in the church. playing some of those motown songs during the service. , weonly thing different would change the words, the lyrics to the songs. ,avis: you'd kept the groove but you change the words. my god ♪ tavis: how did that go over? >> my grandmother and the people at the church, we headed crowd

if if we had 25 people, they would have fits over it. they loved it. back in the day, we were in a church building, the windows were up. people would be lined up all around the building looking through the screens. but they would not come to church, they would listen to us through the screens. one we took music out of monroe, it even to progressive places are spirits were bruised because we got put out of a couple of churches. i can remember clearly like it happened yesterday, we were in chicago, i did a song called and somebodys?' yelled out from the audience, i

wanted to hear the blues. club.d have went to the i am a very tenderhearted person by nature. i was either going to do one of two things. i was going to either cry or god was going to do something whereby i would know that i was in the center of his will. know -- the person got up and walked out. five other people came in and took that seat and other seats. god said to me, you are going to run into some of this. you have not even experience some of the things that you have to go through. it is all for the sake of my will being accomplished. tavis: tell me about this voice. there are a number of things about you that stand out.

the distinctive nature of your voice. i take it that you were not taking voice lessons. how did you perfect this thing? when you hear rance allen's voice, you know it is rance allen. night,g in church every you have to get good at what you are doing. my brothers and i, we were through sunday. that local -- whatever it is you are hearing came over a great period of time of me trying to do the lead plus the background ear.heard it in my my brothers were helping the

background parts and all, but it seemed to me that it was still not enough of us to really round out the sound i was looking for. i would be singing tenor one second and jumped to a full set of the next second -- falsetto the next second. piano licks or horn licks and i kept trying to throw them in as we were singing . -- next thing you know ♪ [laughter] that is what i am talking about. tavis: i can remember like it was yesterday there were two or three people i got turned onto

because of my father. mohamed ali. whatever you think of him, he never lied. used toas a fan and i sit on the living room floor with my dad and watch his fights. one of those other persons was rance allen. dad was the biggest rance allen fan. i am talking about back in the day. he was rocking rance allen on the eight track. my dad loved you so much and i said, who is this rance allen? my dad introduced you to me and i get such a kick out of your -- out of being your friend and how

things have worked out over these years. i was in the choir at my church and i loved the stuff that you did, i could never understand how it is that you knew that the funky baselines or that the horns or that all of the stuff that you put on your music, how you knew that all of that would work on a gospel tract. -- track. >> i do not know if i can say that i was certain. by what i heard and it by felt -- i judged what i heard and what i felt. what i heard was natural, but what i felt was coming from god. they would bring musicians in and the bass players would

go to pop in and some pin and the drummers -- popping and thumping. else.n, i was somewhere it blew me away. god is saying to me, how do you like that? let them hear that. let the gospel world here that. -- hear that. you can talk about me, say whatever you want to say, but i knew that i was going somewhere and god was leading me there. did you not quit because there were people who were pushing back? people would not give it a radio play. how did you not quit? >> i loved what i was doing.

today. love it you want to get me excited right quick, let me walk up in a place and see people waiting to hear me sing something. something happens on the inside and it shows up on the outside. let me out of there. how did you end up going from being an artist to being a minister of the gospel? >> minister of the gospel came first. and iabout four years old ,ent to my grandmother and said i want to preach. boy, did she ever take me serious.

washe time -- by the time i five, i had preached my first sermon. ithe time i was six or seven, was preaching in areas in area -- ohio and pennsylvania. my grandmother still lives within me today. she was probably the greatest for motor set up -- promoter i have ever had. every morning when i got up to go to elementary school, she would say, are you going to preach for me before you go? the lord did this and god did that. ok, baby, go ahead and go to school, i will see you when you get home. i preached before i went to school.

i come home one day and she has an outfit laid out for me and she said, this is what you will preach and. it was a top hat like fred astaire. , white gloves tux . years,rs, at least five that is what i wore. she wanted me to be dressed in a way to get attention because my grandmother truly love the lord. she loved the preaching ministry. i would walk into these churches and the kids, they did not know .e, they would bust out by the time i got through -- i int through that same --

would be in the pulpit reaching -- preaching and my eyes were locked on my grandmother. if she felt like i had done enough to where i should be able bust this house wide open, she would look at me. [vocalizing] tavis: how did you end up being raised by her grandmother? -- you haved my dad to picture this. here butother lives there is a driveway. my mother lived there. on this side of my grandmother is a driveway. my great grandmother lived there.

right next to each other. were having some kind of marital problems. my mother brought me over to her mother's house. mother, could you keep rance for this weekend? tommy and i are trying to work out some things. i grandmother said sure. -- myother would grandmother said sure. i was the only child in her house which affected her and me, too. in my mothers house, there were four or 55 at that time. she came back to get me that following monday and they tell me i just went off on them. i started crying, i don't want to go.

mother said, we are living right here together. stay another few days. my dad tried to come get me and he could not get me. the next thing you know, the decision was made. mama was right across the driveway. tell me about this new project and how it is after all these years you are still finding stuff that interests you to do. as mosting grace," singers will tell you, the latest piece of music they have theautomatically becomes greatest piece of music they have ever done. tavis: that is how that works. the latest and the greatest. the lord will do something to

inspire me. in this case, he inspired me with the song "amazing grace." for 40e been doing this plus years. it has helped to keep your family together, you and your wife and your ministry, the church, your brothers. that is amazing. 60 andu are, you are business how old. i am up there. this is amazing, people still want to hear you.

as young as three years old being brought to concerts by their grandparents. so this is amazing. lord, i have always been considered a contemporary guy. is the oldace" stuff. sing it the way it was written for at least averse. before you get to the end, put a little rance allen twist on it. their,s some music on tavis, it is so great. i am thankful to everybody who had anything to do with it. one of the problems with rance

sometimes it, takes a while to get to the people who really appreciated the most. again, we have been doing it over 40 years. tavis: how blessed do you feel to be able to do this with your brothers? when i was with bishop a word to i learned always put before blessing. the word is bountiful. i am bountifully blessed. allen, b's have stuck with their brother -- these boys have stuck with their brother for so many years. it does not mean that we have not had our fights, but it does

mean that because of the blood flowing through us, the ending of a fight makes the future even better. where is the camera? tom, steve, i love you guys. can i do one more? my wife, baby, i love you. tavis: that is cute. is the head of the rance allen group and has been for over four decades. if you do not have the documentary in your library, get it. while you're at it, pick up anything that has the rance allen name on it.

if you want to experience gospel music in a way that will move you, you will want to get anything that has his name on it. the latest is called "amazing grace." i love you, thank you for coming out to see us. show for tonight. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next timefor a conversation with the president of the center in los angeles, amuse the am dead -- a museum dedicated to the heritage of the west. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminating hunger and we have work to do.

walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs. >> be more. pbs.

>> narrator: welcome to "film school shorts," a showcase of the most exciting new talent from across the country. experience the future of film, next on "film school shorts." "film school shorts" is made possible by a grant from maurice kanbar, celebrating the vitality and power of the moving image, and by the members of kqed. >> [ ring ] >> hey, hey. yeah, sorry. cell phones don't really work out here. you what? you're not [bleep] with me, are you? are su