tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with dr. carl hart at the forefront of medical research and the war on drugs. it was not only of failure, few would argue that, but it was being fought with the wrong weapon. his text is part memoir and part medical investigation called "high-priced." it challenges everything you know about drugs and society. let you have joined us, a conversation with dr. carl hart, right now. >> there is a saying that dr. king had. he said, there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger and we have a lot of work

to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. cane work together, we stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: by any measure, the war on drugs has been a failure. and also how successfully to intervene. hart grew up in one of

miami's toughest neighborhoods. many of the preconceived -- i was not sure what with the has to do drug war. or whether it had to do with your own life and the price that you have had to pay as a result of choices you have made. am i right about both, and neither, or either? >> you are right about both and i am glad that you mentioned above.

particularly, when we look at poor people or black people, it is too high. people will come up subsequently. and in the book, trying to explain how we can lower the price of both. tavis: let me start by talking about your personal journey. certainly, it has culminated at this point. there is a bunch of stuff in the back story.

speaking of high price, how concerned were you of the prize the might pay professionally when you came clean about your own past? >> i am 10 years now. that helps. tavis: i like that answer. go ahead. in science, we are a conservative group and we are also very conservative. i did not want young black boys and girls to think that they had to be perfect in order to get there. i don't want anybody who somehow having to think that i

was somehow perfect. you can still make a contribution to this country. >> those watching right now to find out what we mean when we say you are not perfect, but the unload some of this whole back story. >> growing up in the hood, selling drugs and using drugs. the major thing that kept me in the mainstream was athletics. i played basketball and football. but i played basketball throughout high school. it was enough to make sure that i graduated from high school. i stay plugged in.

that is one thing. weree five sisters that older than me. they function as surrogate mothers. i have a grandmother very strong that voted on me, wanting to make sure i did not go off the beaten path. i knew that i had to make sure i was plugged in and out so they could stay off of the back. in the miami area at the high eventually decided to go into the air force. i served all of my time in japan and england. my time in england, i spent about three years.

it was critical. it was an english-speaking country that had a critique, a social critique of the united states as a related to race. it was a critique that was mainstream in england. i watched guys on the prize, the civil rights film, learning about discrimination and racism. go to england. learn about races to corroborate my reality. in the military as well as college. at thehed my education university of north carolina at wilmington. i had mentors that said, you have got what it takes. i did not think i had what it

took. school,way in graduate those that were critical in my development, i point this out in high price. there are things that we can put in their environment to help them succeed. those programs are gone. my mom was on welfare my entire life. you are in welfare.

as we knew it, it is no longer here. all of those programs help to make sure that we have someone like me. tavis: with all of those mentor's around, how does one getting pulled into the drug game in the first place? i had mentors that were primarily male. they were only a little bit older than me. in order to be considered a man or what have you. we weren't making any real money.

we all came of -- tavis: that is another conversation. what has been and what has been the primary focus? >> what does methamphetamine do to cognitive function? there has been a considerable .mount of information ist i am learning is that it hysteria. we have exaggerated the effects of methamphetamine. tavis: not so much drugs as it is drug policy. >> it causes communities to be the way they are.

majority of people they 90% sock cocaine, 80% or without a problem. they pay taxes that go to work. there is a small percentage that have problems. you can't blame the drug. you also bring people to the lab to study crack cocaine. when you provide people with , we notice from the animal research with laboratory animals, this is not a surprise. what is surprising is how the public has ignored that fact. ask if our drug policy is racist.

bill clinton signed this racist crime deal. streets,used in this see cocaine in the suites. people thought that was racist. the number has gone down in the obama era but not where it ought to be. you are the expert, the researcher. it is in recess -- is it racist? >> it was not signed by bill clinton, it was ronald reagan. tois: clinton had a chance authorize it. you are right, ronald reagan did it, and clinton reauthorize did.

>> he had an opportunity to equate the two and he declined. so when you think about the science, the science does not support that. the two drugs are the same. it would be the equivalent of punishing somebody that smoked marijuana a hundred times more harshly than somebody who takes it with brownies. science,nown that in for a long time, we have not made enough noise to say this is not fair, this is not right. that not only did clinton declined to lessen this disparity, but so did george w. bush. barack obama in 2010, as you point out, legislation that decreases the disparity from 100

to one to 18 to one. which is still unsatisfactory from a scientific perspective. you are concerned and i get that. i don't expect by scientists to play politics. i expect them to give me the facts. i expect scientists to put the facts on the table and if you say there isn't much distinction, he argument was, it was one of the reasons why he signed it again, the argument was that it is so much more harmful for you than powder cocaine. if you're telling me there is not much of a distinction, why does the distinction still exist? ultimately, this is about race. it affected people, like you pointed out. haiti% of people arrested, they are black.

if we have a majority of people that look like the guys in congress being arrested, we know that the law would change. the law itself is not racist. it is the enforcement of the law. so we place law enforcement resources in committee of color. in view catch people committing crimes whether it is crack cocaine or some other law. i live in a relatively upscale neighborhood in new york. if you place law enforcement officials in my community, particularly when it is time to take their parents to school, you will catch them breaking the law. they are not getting caught because the law enforcement efforts are not there. that disparity still exists, he campaigned bring that down to zero. illinoisw senator in

pushed this lot and got it down to 18 and stated isn't what i want, this is the best we can do. but it is notone, what i promised. the law isn't racist and an of itself, what is the justification for the 18-1 disparity? >> it is hard for me -- what can you posit as a justification? i heard you, i am playing devil's advocate. >> you are asking me to think like an idiot. it is a difficult thing to do because i think people justify it by saying that crack has got to be more dangerous than powder cocaine. get an inject it, you can rapid onset, it hits the brain just as quickly.

tavis: i don't will be responsible for this, but why won't the scientific community speak up and say more about it? they are very vocal about global warming, climate change, and people don't get that either, but they are now while silent about it. scientific community doesn't have to go back to the committee and face people. they are asking questions about this to them. they don't have to face that. science benefited from the hysteria surrounded by the hysteria of how awful some drugs are because it gives credence to why the buttons are needed. the compelling reasons, i think. i have been fascinated by

something when i saw the cover of the book had when you walk in the studio, the best parts of the show have been off-camera. by stage manager, when the show started 20 minutes ago, he walks onto the set and his microphone was having a problem. it was on his jacket and his hair was rubbing against the microphone and we were getting feedback. we took it on his ties so it would not run against his hair. i tell you the story because he said, you don't need to move the mike, cut his hair. themicrophone is fine, brother needs a haircut. talk about the neighborhoods and the tenure professor and i am looking at you and i count two earrings in this year, another over here, something shiny in your mouth, your hair hanging

this way and going that way and if i saw you out of that suit or even in the suit late at night in new york in your neighborhood or any other, i would not take you to be a narrow scientist at columbia. tell me about that journey itself discovery, how you get away with all of this. with you are not invested what you do, you're not getting away with it. i work really hard being the best that i am. when i do in order to be who i am. boys thater black wanted the salvaged, want to be hit and so forth. they should be able to wear whatever gear they have or want to have, particularly when it comes to my dreadlocks. homage toke rastafarianism.

my initial education began with rastafarianism, questioning things. for all the young brothers that theyhave them, if understood what they are about and why we wear them, they would begin to think critically of all the things that we value in ivy league institutions. if people can't get past pectorals, that is largely in part of their problem. big if, and ita becomes our burden. one could argue that it has been argued he has his day because of the way he was a tired. i am not suggesting there is any condoning about that. but what you say to parents that encourage their kids to not be

this individualistic if they want to be in the ivy league. >> you are familiar with the politics of respectability. it has done so much harm, and what you have articulated as parlay their politics of respectability. we take the same amount of , that theynd energy are smart and the best at what they do. you don't have to worry about this as much. i don't know what happened with george and mr. martin. thoseen we think about situations that are potentially dangerous, people might have better skills in order to deal with people like these racist folks that may go after you

because of your attire. i was just on fox news recently. the first thing he says to me is, why should somebody listen to you? you look like a drug dealer. did you slap him? >> i am encouraging people to think and be smart. you don't have to physically smack him, but i certainly did intellectually. it became huffy and puffy, the folks would not have heard what i had to say. free dr. hart. let me circle back again to high price. the life thus far wonderfully lived.

>> the book is a memoir, science book, and policy book. from the science, one of the things i want people to take away is that they have been lied to. they have been misled about how awful drugs are. they have been used as a scapegoat to not deal with real problems that poor people face. that's not to say that drugs are not potentially dangerous, but the public has been misled. -- it meanssubjects that we should start to think about changing our public policy. in the book, i advocate that we decriminalize all drugs. young brothers and sisters and people are arrested for

possession of drugs will no longer have a blemish on their record. when you have a blemish on your record, it decreases the likelihood of you making a contribution. inis: is it your sense that your profession, decriminalization is becoming more widely held? mostthink so, and scientists that study what i study report my view. ,hey are very concerned with and fearful of, the media. they are afraid the media will twist their words, not as accurate as they would like to be. you would be hard-pressed to get on the media. tavis: we appreciate you and we need you. the book is called "high price." the challenges everything you

know about drugs and society. this conversation has done some of that tonight. about drugs, the way they're dealt with, dr. carl hart is a tenured scientist at columbia in new york city. that is our show for tonight, thanks for watching and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with about the societal implications of the george zimmerman trial and verdict. we'll see you then. >> there is a saying that dr. king had. he said, there is always the right time to do the right

thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

details continue to emerge about the asiana crash showing the response by the pilots and first responders. the bay bridge flip-flops from a delayed opening to a new proposal that could keep it on schedule. big developments in higher education. homeland security secretary janet napolitano nominated to head the uc system. plus, city college of san francisco fights for its survival. mounting pressure in the state prison system. inmates stage a massive hunger strike while governor brown refuses to release thousands of prisoners to ease over crowding. and a controversial plan for affordable housing in marin provokes some communs