tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley.tonight a conversation about the ramifications of the george zimmerman trial as the not guilty verdict reverberates across this country. we will talk with tricia rose from the study of race in america and brown university. issues of racial profiling, the proliferation of guns command unequal justice continue to divide america. closed forourthouse business over the weekend, but the court of public opinion is still in session. thank you for joining us with tricia rose coming up right now.

>> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> once again, the verdict in a high-stakes trial has shot dennis done a bonus country and

reignited the debate about race in the justice system that has smoldered for generations hearin. the acquittal of george zimmerman has enraged many americans. that a young man can be killed on is way home from a store and no one is held accountable. from brownricia rose university, good to have you back on this program. >> thank you. tavis: your take on the verdict when you heard it? >> the first feeling was profound sadness which was trying to translate into anger at every turn. then a strange realization that it really wasn't that surprising. and that of course issued a whole other wave of sadness for a whole lot different reasons.

those were my initial responses. i want to stay focused on the emotion and not the outcome because i think that is really at the heart of the crisis that we are in. travis: what is the focus on the emotion? >> it is very easy to turn to an incredible sense of rage, really. it's important to think about how that rage destroys the very efforts are building community and so keeping the sadness and certainly some anger, but turning it into looking at the circumstances, thinking big picture, and helps put to this terrible tragedy and the death of trayvon martin in a much rudder context. that context, it seems to me, is our way out -- martin in a much broader context. that context, it seems to me, is our way out here i. there is no scientific

data that i am aware of to prove this, if you were to poll black folks days ago in barber shops and beauty salons, no one expected in black america that this outcome would be different. we were hoping against hope that justice might be served here, at least the way we see it. 50 years does it say after the march on washington that we will celebrate in a few days from now that so many in the african-american community and beyond have so little hope, so little faith and trust in our system of jurisprudence? >> it is a devastating indictment. unless one wants to make an irrational argument that all african-americans are paranoid and delusional -- of course, there are some people who would, but most reasonable people would -- if you are not going to go that route, you have to ask the question.

e amicans -- why are african-american so injured, so suspicious, so unhopeful about the so-called great democracy with a great judicial system? when you asked that question seriously, the evidence that mounts for deep unjust treatment, unjust application of ,aw on all kinds of levels unjust levels of sentencing, surveillance, illegitimate modes of discrimination in every other facet of everyday life is so overwhelming that the answers are present for us. in other words, the reason to hope against hope is not unclear. yet we run from that data. we are unable to seriously confront it and retrieved to a very almost pollyanna narrative about the ways in which we have improved. which, by the way, i am very excited to support. yes, things have gotten much better in many ways it but they have also gotten worse and come if we don't keep our eyes focused on this in community, in

conversation, with serious data, we are destined to maintain the kinds of inequality that is devastating poor communities around the country. tavis: as i sat for this conversation on abc yesterday with a high-profile panel of one non-americans who were about to engage in a conversation about this verdict, i sat there and what you expect on the sunday morning shows is sort of a politically correct dispassionate discourse about the issues of the day. and that is not the word -- that is not the role that i could play yesterday. for me, this is personal. manyder to what extent so americans of any race, color or creed don't get this because it is not for them personal. as i sat on this panel looking at my fellow hosts, i did not want to go here. seein a few places that i can cause discomfort. i wonder how differently this conversation would be if the

moderators child had been shot, if the colleagues i was sitting next to, if their child had been shot and killed. that is a long way to get to taking race out of it and how it is that, in this culture, this media culture that we and the pundits talk about these issues all day long in a dispassionate several way because we don't -- because we can't put ourselves in the shoes of person x, y or z? >> the question of empathy is at the heart of any genuine sort of building of community and understanding. and empathy requires that you are able to put yourself in the shoes of another gam. of course, when you are in a professional setting, you may lose track of individuals and try to follow a story. but this is more than that, more than just a neutral lack of empathy. we have cultivated in the media culture and an educational culture that reduces the ability for whites and others who are more privileged to

understand those of racial disadvantage in the fear and exam that he -- here and excited that in particular african american men have to deal with to survive in this country. that is a studied way of not addressing the structural constraints that we are dealing with now. you may have worried yesterday about not being impassioned, but then nations media has been deeply impassioned around all kinds of issues. columbine, sandy hook i'm a hurricane sandy -- sandy hook, hurricane sandy. when someone feels empathy is always present in the media, but it does not get asked ended to the lived experience of african- americans in any way near the way it should. tavis: when i made it to the airport after appearing on the show yesterday and flew back to los angeles last night, i landed because i wanted to get to a

screening of a movie that i'm sure you and others in the country have heard about called "fruitvale station" about the killing of oscar grant a few years ago in oakland. it is sort of the same situation, black young male being shot and killed by a white male under the color of enforcement or neighborhood watch, in this case, a bart officer. i got off the airplane and went he medially to the screening and i could not get out of my seat to the screening because i could not stop crying. i know the oscar grant very well, but i couldn't stop crying personally because the movie was so brilliant in connecting us to the humanity of oscar grant. give me a second here. i am in a movie theater with a whole bunch of white folks, overwhelmingly white, and everybody in that theater is crying. tomorrow night on this program, we will have the star fruitvale station and the director for a

conversation tomorrow night on this program. was moved because the movie did a wonderful job in getting to the humanity of oscar grant very it is a long way of asking how much of what happens to trayvon or to oscar grant to nameless persons into the future, countless persons perhaps into the future because we can't find a way to revel in the humanity specifically of lack males? >>) well, tavis, as usual, you have hit it right on the head durin. if you have a system that the evidence overwhelming shows not only discriminates but targets, tracks, penalizes, incarcerates, and normalizes a level of social violence committee have a system like that, humanizing that constituency fundamentally threatens the logic of that system. it means you have to pursue the injustice of the system. and we are not comfortable with that because we haven't really

been able to stomach the contradiction that we have created by saying that we are this agate cap -- this egalitarian post segregationists, inclusive multiracial democracy. that is our narrative and our practice, which falls seriously short. to resolve that, we deny it. really good what that film has done -- really. what that film has done and what these stories do is force us into the humanity, the potential thatity -- some resisted, some resisted it, but it doesn't mean that all african-americans are noble, but all african- americans and all people are entitled to an empathetic fundamental humanity and a portrait of richness in humanity that we don't see. let me say one more thing. the news media in general -- a pew study easily showed that almost half of all images of african-americans are either sports related or them somehow being involved somehow in crime.

you can't constantly married people this way and not married then another humanizing ways without dehumanizing people's perception and that is the world we have created. among other things, that makes it very hard to understand why african-americans are in so much pain writ large over what seemed to be a -- what seemed to be in a jewel cases. >tavis: how can you love or like brock obama, oprah, lebron james, tiger woods -- you know where i'm going with this -- how can you love certain negroes and not celebrate everyday people like trayvon martin and oscar grant and i am not ignorant in asking the question. >> this is a major crisis we have here in there is no requirement to confront the collective humanity of black people in the context of celebrity culture.

we have created some kind of phantasmagorical tiny group of highly well compensated, very visible black people who are black in a way that do not force us to look at the structures of everyday life. and the most important thing, tavis command and this is very problematic, i think, is that their success and i don't mean this individually -- you can name a hundred individuals and i will say the same ain't -- your success largely depends on not bringing to the fore this level of racial discrimination because of the potential downside of making certain markets less interested in them or audience members are alienating consumers. so what might have happened in the 1950s, 19 60s, 1970s where a black athletes and entertainers and celebrities would talk about it -- it is a most impossible to expect mainstream

black leadership in the cultural or social or political arena to do that consistently without jeopardizing deposition. and that is what i call inclusive discrimination. dangerous process because it makes it look like one thing because it is entirely another. and the most people who are visible and have the leverage have been neutered to be able to contribute in a powerful way. something that has struck me about the path forward in the obama administration and the question of race in this case. number one, african-americans now have to rely on an african- american attorney general the first african-american attorney general if this case is good to have any additional life. i could be wrong about this here and i pray that i am. i don't think that will happen. the reality is, for all of the celebrating and speaking in tongues and adulation and

adoration of this administration, black eagle now who -- black people now and who care about this case and not just black people, but people across the board, but african- americans now are in an interesting position to rely on a black president and a black attorney general to do something about what happened here and i don't think it's going to happen for a lot of reasons, including some legal reasons, as we won't get into right now. but the point is that i don't think it will happen and that is who they have to rely on. that is an interesting irony to me. but the second thing is that the president's statement -- let me just be frank about how i feel about it. his statement about this was as weak as its weakened -- week as pre-sweetened kool-aid and it was politically correct, but as much as barack obama has tried to avoid the race question in his first and second term, he keeps getting slapped upside the head with all of these cases and these incidences that in the door that give him an opportunity to lead america in a

real conversation about race. he has punted that opportunity every single time. he is no longer up for reelection. he is safely in a second term in it we still get this milquetoast statement out of the white house about this when the majority, the most loyal part of his base, which is african- american, is now looking to his administration, to his justice department to do something about it. everybody is doing that with aided breath. it is a commentary that was -- breath.ed breatbated it is a commentary that was too long, but i have seven younger brothers. the point is that i want to get to your take on how our body politic specifically the obama administration response to this because this is not just an isolated incident. >> no, it's not. he is my feeling. i said this before obama was

elected the first time. i said i did not think, as a scholar who teaches multiracial classrooms in college at brown, mostly white, but multiracial, that given what i know people do not know about the contemporary modes of structural discrimination, given what i know about the retreat to a strange fantasy world called colorblindness and an even crazier universe called post race, that i did not think that a black resident could do anything but comment an albatross to get to a racial conversation. some think that that is letting obama off the hook and that argument can be made. but you have to put obama in context. he is operating in an american cultural world that has been the last 30 years convincing itself that, if we stop lurking -- stop looking at race we will fix structural racism.

and because we have ended or reduced government or state sponsors -- state-sponsored segregation and publicly acceptable hate speech, because we have largely reduced and almost ended that, that we have somehow ended structural racism. he have done no such thing. we have changed the language that frames structural raises and some. -- structural racism. it seems to me that obama was not the person who could do what you are asking a black president could do. i think that is the reality. here is my great hope and i'm try to find a silver lining for us. this could be the moment of recognition. this isn't going to be just about being black, but about being what is your politics and what are you willing to pursue? this might hope all kinds of leaders accountable at every level -- educational leaders, entertainers, political leaders,

teachers, school board leaders, police -- at every level. and i'm hoping that what we will say is, how can it be that a black president couldn't do this? happen to be, if you are right holder and the justice department couldn't do this? was it just the case or was it that being black meant that you couldn't lobby on behalf of of black americans in any meaningful way. tavis: if you are right about this, what the heck is the value of a celebrating a black resident? just say that he is the first person of color. but all of this hoopla, if it does not redound to you in some meaningful way when you're back as to the wall and your babies are being shot dead in the streets, if it doesn't redound to you at some point, what is the value of having a black president? number two, when it served his purpose during the campaign to have a talk about race from constitution hall, i believe, in philadelphia, when it was to his benefit to talk about race in the campaign to put some

distance between him and jeremiah wright and i he gave what many still regard as the most brilliant speech of his political career about race. so he did talk out it back in the day. i'm not asking him to do anything or he hires pandered, nothing that -- or a higher standard, nothing that i wouldn't ask any other president. bill clinton had a race commission. if you the president and you are the best person to help usher us into a conversation about this, why not do it? >> well, you know, i think he should do it and i think he should impanel a commission hearing and -- commission. and i think he should empower the discussion. we can't keep doing this media dance where we say there are two sides and they are very polarized. twoe are really not just sides. there are many positions, but more importantly, there are positions that are flat out, you know, hostile and and just and they should be given equal time around the same kinds of time

that is given to other positions to this fantasy that all positions are equal has to be ended. and we need to be much more forceful about saying what our vision is, what our goals are and to pursue that. there is no question to me that more conversation should be had and obama should do more about it. but to me, i have never had the expectations of the first place and i think part of this is about what are we looking for, speaking here as an african- american. what expectations do we have? have we set the terms of the relationship with the american government with local please come out where we have a reason -- with local police, where we have a reason to expect fair and just treatment or not? and i think most people know not. but we are emotionally engaged and that injury keeps being reopened. what i would like to encourage us all, and progressive white sand liberal white sand asian- americans in all, what we can

do is push back from the emotional into the, ok, what are we going to do? when king said, as you opened this whole show, where do we go from here, it was not fantasy talk. it was not let's all get along. it was where do we go from here? how do we change our political expectations? how do we use our midst levels of research to show us how wise happens, how lack this gets understood as a prime historically and politically etc. we can't just get caught up in an emotional expectation that to me the evidence is all ready in four. there isn't going to be the conversation that you want to have. so where do we go? tavis: disabuse me of this notion, but my greatest expectation is not a barack obama. that is not my greatest expectation. i greatest expectation is that like people will remain outraged about this and the things it can

be done will be done. black people have been basically silent. there have been pockets of people raising their voices, but we have not been as vocal as we should have been in this fight about gun control. now that mr. zimmerman that quick got his gun back, has his weapon back now, i wonder what black people will say about gun control and about poverty and about so many other issues. again, i think it is so lopsided, this honeymoon we have been on because we have an african-american president that people have gotten lazy and people have been silenced and sidelined. it takes trayvon martin to get our ire up here i wonder how long that will last? i'm i wrong to think that we should do more and expect more? >> know, we ought to do more and say way more. let me talk about the mobilization of all walks of life in new york and l.a. and oakland and more planned over the next week. the pictures i have seen -- i was on my way to new york during the time square sort of protest

and vigil and i was just so moved by the tapestry of different racial and ethnic groups and classes and ages of people saying this is wrong and this cannot go on. and i think that is the most inspiring thing i've seen. we have to do more, get involved, and to be, you know, critical of commercial media. we have to really pursue their refusal to frame issues in a way that invites black people. so when yours -- so when you say where are we on the gun control debate and debate, it is not just that the national leadership has been quite of berries or organizations, but issues are not sensationalized in their blackness don't include black people sufficiently. and we need to challenge that. the sunday morning shows are almost 87% all white and all- male gay i'm glad you're there,, but in general, that is not the case -- all-male.

i'm glad you are there, but that is not the case in general. that is not encouraging the kind of activism we need to see. so that is a new moment. may i -- maybe i am being pollyanna, but it has the possibility of making it so. we need to encourage young people that action does make a difference. tavis: i appreciate the work you do at brown university. i know you deal a day trip trip with your brilliant husband, another scholar, andre willis, heading to paris to do some work there. thank you for delaying your trip so we could have this conversation tonight. have a wonderful journey and we will talk again soon. >> it was my pleasure, tavis. thank you for having me. tavis: that is our show tonight. as always, keep the faith. >> join me next time for a conversation for michael b jordan who is getting acclaim for his new film "fruitvale

station." >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminate hunger, and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.

% hello and welcome to this is us. i'm becca reed. a you tube sensation when they posted a thank you video to the preponderate. we there take a look at the video, and we will find out why people are willing to stand in lines a block long to get this ice cream. later we meet legendary surfer who has been on the job 50 years. we've got a lot of stories and it all starts now.