tavis: good evening from los angeles. tonight, a conversation with james cromwell, the oscar- nominated character actor who has angered so many outstanding movies including "they've -- "babe" and "l a confidential." before we get to that, as this is our 10th anniversary on pbs, we continue to introduce you to some of the fault who make this possible every night. joining me is brian anderson, my stage manager. with me every show for 10 years. to the extent that i can be given orders and directions, brian attempts to do that. i'm honored to have you on our team. >> i am honored to be and your team. i met you 12 years ago.

on a little show called "politically incorrect." -- you camea guest on as a guest and i said, i am hopeful to work with you. i have enjoyed 10 years of meaningful television. i feel blessed to work on two of the best talk shows. tavis: glad to have you on a team directing this operation. you need to get back to your spot of directing me. tell us what is coming up tonight. >> we are glad you joined us for a conversation with actor james cromwell, coming up right now. ♪ >> there is a saying dr. king has. there is always the right time to do the right thing. i try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know we are only halfway to completely eliminating hunger. we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ tavis: someone once described cromwell,oe -- james a character actor is a man who does not get the girl. that may be true, but they often degrade roles and accolades. that is true of james cromwell, who has shown his range as the kindly farmer in "babe" and the deadly corrupt cop in "l a confidential." now he's getting accolades in movie "still mine."

let's take a look at a scene from the movie." >> i am not moving into town. you will have to shoot me before you find me in a retirement home. the only view there is a the slow shuffle into the ground." >> that is not what i meant. i was thinking of building something smaller. more manageable. on that plot is across the road? one level. >> we do not have the money. this place is not worth a thing. and we are not taking a mortgage. >> if i did the work myself we could afford it. goneberries and the cattle , i seem to have a lot more free time. tavis: tell me more about "still mine." >> what you said, he cannot prevent her dissent into

dementia -- descent into de mentia. he wants to make the transition as comfortable and familiar for her, her surroundings. a very genuine thing. he feels he can, he wants to minister to her and take care of her the way he always has, partly because she has meant so much to him in his lifeless top sheet is -- in his life. he deserves it -- she deserves it. he knows what he has to do. he is capable of doing it. then he runs afoul of a bureaucracy and regulations that are in place by necessity because unscrupulous people do take advantage of other people. they're evidently has to be some sort of government to regulate it. unfortunately, there are no exceptions. so they do not see or appreciate the, how capable he is. they say, if you do not comply

we will bulldoze the house. tavis: therein lies the rub. ofnot only a personal tale people last -- people last year saw "amour," that is the dark side of it. not that any of this ever turned out really well. it does get really awful for most people. but we chose to show a lighter side, at least in a way that you saw that his action was possible and that it was prudent and that it was the best of all possible options. , so oftenunately there are many things in this culture we refuse to talk about. dementia is one. growing old is another. suddenly you are moved to the periphery. you no longer have volition on your own will stop -- on your

own. even at 87, he is still incredible. tavis: you have given me five or six good reasons to not make a movie like this, because it does not fit the roadmap for hollywood success. yet you did it. why did you choose to do this? >> first, it is not made in hollywood. "thethe film last year, artist," you never made that film in hollywood either. interested in dealing with the subject. we have to. we are dealing with it right now, or trying not to deal with it. this is what happened in the trial of trayvon martin. countries in other are looking at this. read the. i miss i read it cursorily and gave some really wretched notes.

it was not until i got the job, i was shooting another film and i started to look at it, i calmed down. you get so used to reading scripts that are about car chases and explosions, short little dialogue, the entire focus is on the leading man, maybe one other character. you fulfill a very small function. you do not drive the plot forward. you are more of a divergent. and it all happens really quick. so you get something that is slow and deliberate and sensitive and character-driven .nd interior i do not want to see small in a pejorative way. but it is the microcosm. it took me a while to calm down. film,ced when i see the someone said today they really enjoyed that this film moves at a measured pace. emerson said, take your example from nature.

the pace of nature. it is based on patients. and we have no patience in this country. we want instant gratification. we do not take responsibility. instant blame, instant punishment, and instantly forget about it and go on to the next thing. the occasionu have to go back and look at the notes you made initially? >> it took me about four hours to talk him out of it. he had made a second version. tavis: based on your notes. >> luckily because they were his words he was not reluctant to go back. me byrified a lot for having to do that. and for him. he got, from me, that might interest, which directors often do not, he got that i was only interested in making the best film possible. i did not want it for me. i wanted to tell the story as

best as i could. that informed my participation and everybody around it. not because of me. they all believed in the thing. it was absolutely miraculous production. tavis: let me jump this way. the story you told says something to me about your own capacity and humility and willingness to re-examine your own assumptions in life. tell me more about that. >> other than i am so often wrong? [laughter] tavis: i got that. >> it is part of growing. you think you know something and understand something and, but if you -- if your goal is to become conscious then you keep having to re-examine the premises that you base your actions on. because actions have consequences. look at them -- throughout my life i have learned from

participating in things that were beyond my canon, -- ken, that i knew nothing of. not simply acting. my life experience. my eyes were opened to other people's experience, their wisdom. gathering to see a documentary. gregory starts to speak to mostly white people . itk gregory started telling like it was. i have been to a progressive democrat thing right heard people talking about, we can do this and we are going to do this. i'm thinking, are you out of your minds? you cannot cannot even get your candidate elected. i was not asked to, but i felt reluctant to say what was on my

mind, what i experienced. i watched him tell the truth, passionately, about what he believes in. so now i have to take the responsibility, like when you see somebody wearing a fur coat. you cannot just let it -- i stood next to two people and i just wanted to go over and say, do you have any idea the suffering that goes into the code you are wearing? if you do not do it, it stays the same. and the pain goes on. the suffering goes on. the killing goes on. whatever the consequences. tavis: but if you do it, it makes you the party pooper. the guy who killed all the fun. it makes you persona non grata. it certainly makes you politically incorrect if you do it. >> he said in interesting thing -- i have really wonderful friends.

they are not only dear to me, they have supported made and made my life possible. i also have wonderful enemies, and i earned every one of them. and i'm real proud of them [laughter] people who are not willing to step up to the plate and deal with the subject, i do not try to drive it down somebody's throat but i have a lot of opinions. veganism.itions on i have positions on the death penalty. i have positions on snowden. i want to have a conversation with somebody and i want us to go -- i do not have anything to defend. i want to explore and see if we cannot come, if we cannot make it better. you cannot do that unless you are willing to change your mind. >> --tavis: i want to frame this the right way. aspersionsnt to cast on every white male watching the show.

i love white men. they are some of my best friends. do not take this the wrong way. because you let me, i want to follow you. you referenced by inference, you directly referenced trayvon martin and the recent trial of george zimmerman. a lot of folks in this country, and we have an upcoming episode of the show where we will talk about white entitlement. what bill bradley referred as white skin privilege. is white enjoys it, it males. a lot of people on the scheider -- on the side of the trial do not understand how many white , cannots, white males develop a sense of empathy and understanding, openness to your point, to step in the shoes of someone else. i'm not trying to indict all white males. i'm asking you, as a white male, to say something about how you ask a singular white male, wanting to hear other peoples

point of views about how how disparate they are and consider their pain and and be empathetic toward their situation. how did that happen for you? father, myof my father was a mass -- actor. my stepmother was an actress. i guess i come genetically and by experience. that is what we have to do in our work, whether i am genetically predisposed to appreciate and embrace empathy. i went along mindlessly, ignorantly. vietnamt, i got out of basically. i had no idea what you numb was -- vietnam was. i did not want to go. i got a psychiatrist in new york to write a letter that i was not. -- nuts. the inspecting officer believed

me. i said something totally inappropriate to him and i was out. i never had to confront going to canada, going to jail, what conscientious objection might been -- mean. tavis: some would say that makes you not a conscientious objector, but a coward. >> i was a coward. i was a coward out of ignorance. i also have nothing to defend. i did not understand what was at stake. i still do not -- i know what is at stake now and i abhor it. i ran her, that -- remember, that was the year john kennedy was killed. none of this -- none of us could believe this could occur, that you could kill the president of the united states. very shortly after that i went to the south. ostensibly to be in a theater, and i was taken to a house in the quarter that had collards -- coloreds only on it, and i

thought that must be a throwback . i went in and a very nice black lady showed me to a room. the head of the heater took me to a restaurant and we were thrown out of the restaurant because i was sitting with a black man in a restaurant in new orleans. i had never been thrown out before. i stand up -- he says, no, sit down. then, not only rehearsing the play, learning more about "waiting for to go -- waiting ot", more than i ever heard from any other critic then going to mississippi. my introduction to mississippi, we drove into my, -- macomb. than were more black men i'd ever seen in my life. i was from westchester county. they are listening to a 14-year- old black girl say how she had been beaten and kicked and spat on for integrating the lunch

counter. i thought, what country am i in? then i watched the courage of those people and the people who were supporting the student nonviolent cord knitting, -- coordinating. i went to school with the schwarner.- micky fractured thatat complacency, that entitlement. i realized you have to learn everything in this life, which has nothing to do with the color of your skin. it has to do with your principles and what you are willing to do to do the right thing. that obligation is to do the right thing. >> you mentioned a black minister who said something to you. last time i saw you, you are brilliant.

i did not want to bother you. i saw you at a production of "waiting for godot." what did this black minister say to you? >> i had done this play in college and it totally bamboozled me. it is a tough piece. ,o figure out what does it mean i am interested in what it means. i have a cast in which lucky is black and pozzo is white. esther gone is white -- estragon is white and vladimir is black. he said to me after we rehearsed one scene, pozzo has lucky at the end of a rope. lucky carries everything that he owns. i have the with. this is -- whip. this is the relationship between a master and the slave. he said, the master is that tied -- is as tied to the slave as the slave is tied to the master. i thought the thing only went

one way. it was a question of power. but it is not. the more power there is, the more dependence there is. it is only the slave that acquiesces to a certain point. then, as it happened in egypt and the middle east, there comes a point when you say no. the people in the south said no, it stops now. is, the best thing was we went to greenville and by that time i would have a colloquy afterward. i'm dealing with people who have never seen theater, a movie, they know nothing about this. i had put blackface on myself and white face on the black actors, trying to balance it. it was not attending. racism? me? so i said to the assembled, did you think godot was coming?

, it was a the back formal occasion so she had her funeral gloves on. i said, did you think godot was coming? she said, no. she sounded so positive. people have been deliberating since the play was written. i said, how did you know? she said, i looked in the program and her play -- name was not -- his name was not listed. [laughter] the most brilliant analysis of the play i have ever heard. tavis: that is funny. >> i thought of it when we were looking -- doing the play. you are waiting the whole time. talk about it endlessly. all you have to do is turn the page -- it is not about waiting for godot. andturned to the audience said, i want you people to pay attention to the play. we are not like is to men. we are not waiting for anyone. we are taking what we need. tavis: every time i get --

talked you i get blown away by some new revelation. i have not until this moment ever been aware that there was a nexus between the civil rights movement and "waiting for godot." i am glad to know it. she is a powerhouse. tavis: so many wonderful women, men. an extraordinary time. the fact we are still -- >> the fact we are still fighting it at this juncture is appalling. tavis: speaking of fighting against certain things, what is your hope? i want to go back to the movie, "still mine." what is your hope for the takeaway? it is tender. it in no way proselytizers. i know there is something you want to get out to the film. >> in terms of the relation, i love people.

there is as much ageism as there is sexism. i want people to believe. i know because i experience it. it is frustrating. tavis: not in hollywood. [laughter] >> never in hollywood. i like people to understand the people of a certain age still have a life, still have dreams, still make love, still care, they are still capable. derrière insee your this thing? >> any excuse to take my clothes off. nobody cares anymore. sort ofr part of it is, a byword of mine has always been resist authority. i just think we swallow way too much in this country. so of the things that was impressive about what gregory was talking about, we just are bamboozled by the amount of misinformation and mendacity. i looked at it

today. i always feel, since i was involved in, i work for the black panthers, the antiwar movement, we came very close to having a revolution in this country. i believe the reason it failed was we polarized the country because we blamed the others. there was blame. and the natural american impulse to violence, which is not in this film, which is the reason it is a canadian film or exemplary of canada, is instead of punching him out or picking up the gun or doing something bizarre, they just work through , i do notry natural want to use the word civilized, mature, humane way. today people talking about the demonstrations for trayvon. the watchword is we have to do it nonviolently, with discipline . it is changing. we are clearer now than we were then.

the discussion is still the same . the remedies will be different because we're better now. tavis: is it fair for me to say that after all these years of doing what you do so well, given that "babe those quote was the was the lead, the pig was the lead, is this your first leading role? >> i waited a long time. it is an interesting thing. i compare it to chinese painting. they only paints, -- they only paint just the top of the mountain. you see one edge and the rest of it is in clouds. the canvas is why. which allows the viewers to create the entirety in the imagination. when you do a character role, you only have the one shot. you have a five-minute scene. you put everything, but the kitchen sink, and the kitchen

sink, in their. when you play a lead you with all -- you withhold information and choices, and allow the audience to fill in in their mind so that the act of watching the piece is creative for the audience because the hero that they see as the hero they have created. tavis: one of the great character after -- greatest character actors ever. now, at this young age he is the lead in a wonderful film called "still mine." james cromwell. he is welcome back on this program any time. i am always enlightened by our conversations. good to see you. that is our show for tonight. thanks for watching. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: join me next time for a ,onversation with rafe esquith the only teacher ever to win a medal of arts award. he has written a book called

"still mine -- called real talk for real teachers. >> there is a saying dr. king has. it is always the right time to do the right thing. i tried to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know we are only halfway to completely eliminate hunger. we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be

tonight on "quest" -- if you think that bats are scary or ugly, you haven't talked to the people who have made it their life's mission to study and care for them. "quest" rediscovers these unique mammals through the eyes of four northern california bat lovers. and renewable energy is hot, but there's one type of clean energy that provides more electricity to california than all the solar and wind power combined. major funding for quest is provided by the national science