tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with sir ben kingsley. he has won numerous awards. on his new film, he is playing an evil genius "iron man 3." we're glad you have joined us. >> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i try to live my life every day

by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminating hunger and we have work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: you would not think a character for a comic book it would have created some controversy. but the role did just that. the character is called the mandarin. that approach was three imagined for this current iteration of "iron man."

let's take a look at sir ben kingsley as mandarin. >> he is traveling. >> what are we waiting for? mr. president, only two lessons remain. thomas is an accountant. i am sure he is a really good guy. i'm going to shoot him in the head.

live on your television and 30 seconds. tavis: good to have you back, first of all. i am told that this was released internationally before we see it here. this weekend, it is everywhere. released internationally last weekend. whatever the controversy was, almost $200 million later, on opening weekend, it must be gone. what was this all about. >> what they tried to avoid, at is the asian stereotype, which can be dismissed as an alien threat.

he is the eccentric and crazy. to have a home grown voice, iconography, the costume comprised of u.s. army boots, fatigues, political t-shirts and the chinese coast, the japanese hair, all said to confuse the audience. confuse, manipulate, to shock. to having knowledge of western iconography, western history, western aspirations, culture manipulate them through language, a few words, it cannot be dismissed as a crazy alien threat. it sounds more like a threat from within, even though the news drove footage suggest that he is somewhere in the desert. we find out that he is a lot closer. tavis: i am always fascinated by this.

you guys have been so good in keeping the secret. i've been trying to find a bootleg copy -- i should not say that. the studio has been very good at keeping this stuff under wraps. i do not know how they do it these days. how does a controversy even erupt? >> if you go back to the comex of the 1960's, the mandarin was invented in the 1960's. polarized, solid evil. the enemy is blurred, manipulative. the controversy might have been a response to the old 1960's stereotype rather than what marvel has reinvented. tavis: i have seen precious

little of this. i have seen precious little of this and i am anxious to see it like everybody else. every time you come on this program, i am always delighted to have you here. i'm always going to learn something. you always push me and challenge me, you expand my inventory. >> that is totally intimidating. tavis: you always give me something to marinade on. in our previous conversation, there is not a one conversation where we have not somehow gone off into some rich conversation at your leading about shakespeare. it is such a part of who you

are. i recall from one of our previous conversations, you said you have to resist the temptation to bring some shakespeare to every character that you play. you know where i am going with this. how did shakespeare factor into the mandarin? >> his speech patterns are extraordinary. his speeches are created for them because they are broadcast. therefore, there is a use of repetition, from my shakespeare days, loving the way shakespeare put his words together. the actor can dwell inside a word and stretch it until you. freshly for the first time or you listen to it differently. i used all of my theater shakespeare experience to pump that kind of rhythm into his

rhetoric. having played shakespearean villains, who will announce himself as the glorious, and righteous king. he has a sense of commitment and a righteousness. all of shakespeare's "villains" have this sense of righteousness and conviction. looking back, welding that back onto the broadcast the i have seen, going back to europe and the 1930's, up where you started to use that kind of political language and manner on radio, news room, it broadcasts, it was the first use of mass media in germany and the 1930's.

and to look at the key speaker, he has a sense of unswervable righteousness and a sense of destiny. you must play a villain somber, sober, patriarchal, a presidential, a teacher, a teacher, a giver of lessons. tavis: do you see what i mean? you've already given me stuff to think about. i've never thought about it in quite that way. you must not play it villainously. >> hello, boys and girls, i am

evil. tavis: you have just explained how to play a villain best. what is it that attracted to these characters? you have played everything from ghandi to gangsters and you do them equally well. what attracts you to these villains? >> i do not know whether it is specifically that they are villainous but when they are well written, when they are well conceived, and when you know that the director, who, in this case is one of the writers, when the director will place the

camera in such a way as to endorse everything we have just said, you learn as an after or his patterns of human behavior in his plays were flawless. they are so flawless that they even use now in psychiatric studies and there is such a thing as the othello syndrome in psychiatrist. it is such a case history and so true that it has entered into a psychiatric language. i'll look for the human dance and i see exactly where my character fits into the dance.

if it is a truth, i will play an. or her, but i've not had that opportunity yet. once i see, you have put her on the page, a classic pattern of human behavior. it is in "iron man 3." the classic act of revenge because his best friend is in a coma. it is archetypal comment not a copy of a copy of a copy. i have to give it a shot. tavis: let me do a complete 180. what is the fun in doing this? >> i am eventually confronted by our hero.

robert downey jr.. that was in the first class wimbledon's men's finals and you see the ball coming at you and you did your rackets and it goes back and forth. he is such a gentleman, such a great performer, a wonderful colleague. it was thrilling to play with them. my broadcasts were i am solo, that was also thrilling. i had to find those exact tones and the broadcasting of the truth, the giving of the lesson.

tavis: there will be a lot of young people who will see this movie this weekend young people are going to eat this up. i wonder what you think would be gained by having these same young people exposed to shakespeare in their schools week after week after week. >> i did see a marvelous documentary film crew follow school children from london who were completely ignorant of shakespeare and act "romeo and juliet" beautifully.

the kind of schools they were allocated as kids, you would never think they would put a shakespeare play together. their imagination, energy, when they finally got that suicidal passionate journey of both of these lovers and their relationship with their parents and their friends and it is about gang warfare. i saw it come to life and it was extremely moving. wonderful boundless adolescent energy. bursting out of them, they were bigger than the characters. they had so much great energy to give. to be read shakespeare is a tough exercise.

what i used to do when i toured american universities, i used to go into the classroom can act scenes from shakespeare. suddenly, it came to life. in front of them. i would love to direct american kids in shakespeare if i had the opportunity again. i have done it briefly. one of the last ones was in the university of mexico and we did a scene from a crazy play from samuel beckett. it came to life with these children. it was very beautiful.

i love to work with the young and imaginative mind. tavis: i suspect you would never retire from acting because it is in your dna. i suspect if there was something you would be beautiful ads and brilliant at doing, it would be spending more time teaching. you are such a great teacher. >> i love to be in touch with that aspect of me. it is energized by enthusiastic young people. sometimes there are 200 in the room and i work with 10 of them. tavis: i want to circle back to "iron man 3." when you think back at roles you have played, like gandhi. "iron man 3" is escapism. i wonder if you might say a word about the value of embracing escapism.

or being exposed to escapist work. >> in this particular case, the joyful and spectacular escapism is always linked to a moment after there is a great action sequence, for example, always immediately following is a moment of vulnerability, tenderness, love, affection, anger, absurdities. always brings an audience that is energized by something and it takes that audience attention and says, here is a bit of a vulnerability.

the escapism is always treated in the pattern of human behavior, which is why it was such a joy to be in this film. i think with this, you get the best of both worlds. you are touched by a human story. and then excited and thrilled by the beautiful action sequences. this is the best of both worlds. it is possible to have the best of both worlds. the human heart -- >> i cannot imagine how anyone develops into the kind of a humanist i take you to be without coming to terms with his or her own vulnerabilities. can you say a word about that in terms of your own journey?

wrestling with your own vulnerabilities? >> my vulnerabilities my inability to confront them creatively have led me to crash and burn quite a few times. the philosopher of whom i know absolutely nothing, only one quote. i had died many times. that also means -- he is putting it modestly. i've had the opportunity to reorganize by issues and gather myself together and recreate

myself or refresh myself many times, to. all linked to a past and a childhood, there have been dark moments. my craft and my ability to tell stories, which in itself the ceiling, occupy the other men's dilemmas and struggles, which has given me a perspective, and really rely on my empathy as an instinct, i am by nature empathetic. managed to keep in touch with my empathy, state vulnerable, and always learn, always learn. i have crashed and burned many times. not publicly yet. tavis: as you share it about having died many times, my mind went to what i do know. in the christian tradition, the

biblical notion of dying daily. you do not start to live until you learn how to die daily. at least to die out to those things that are not good for you. the only way you ever get to being alive is to die daily anyway. >> that is the parallel christian quote. there is a profound link there. embracing something that is linked to mortality. you are not into preservation, but into reinvention. tavis: you have not crashed publicly -- >> i have been assassinated, i have been horribly imprisoned and humiliated, i have committed suicide in films, putting a

plastic bag over my head. maybe in ritualizing these deaths, i have come to terms with something that others may not have the opportunity to come to terms with. they say mortality is depressing, nor did. it is a fact of life, it is better to confront it -- this is why people go to the cinema. this is why people like drama. tavis: i could never be an actor. it starts with having talent. beyond that, the thing i am for ever jealous of every time i talk to an actor on this program, they get to do whatever rest of us do not get to do.

to act this stuff out. >> we do it for you. we ritualized this dance before you. it is collective. tavis: it is a beautiful thing. how big is the film going to be? >> it is off to a colossal start. i am delighted because it shows that its popularity must lie in the great metaphor of inside this iron suit, i am a guy. that is beautiful. so often, you never see inside the knight's armor. roberts' character says, look. it is beautiful. tavis: he is wrestling.

ben kingsley plays the mandarin in "iron man 3." i do not need to encourage you to go see it. i think everybody is going to see it. i am delighted to have you. you did not let me down. i have to go look up a quotation and do some research. that is our show for tonight. thank you for watching. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for conversation with tom -- with paul anka.

>> there is a saying that dr. king had that said there is always the right time to do the right thing. i try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only halfway to completely eliminating hunger and we have work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley.

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