tavis: good evening from los angeles. tonight a conversation with writer and director ethan hawk. his new movie reconnects audiences with "before sun rise." and once again with the sequel "before sun sets." this is our 10th anniversary season. and believe or not, tomorrow night we believe it is our 2,000th episode. we're continuing to introduce you to some of the people that make this show possible. karen is our production manager. has been with me since the begin thoffing show a decade ago. and she keeps everything around here running smoothly. long before the guests see me,

they see her. i can't believe how great it is that people get to see you. i am honored and delighted to have you as a team. >> mr. smiley, thank you so much for the warm introduction. and i just want to say, i'm so grateful for these past 10 years, our first 10 years together on pbs. and i'm really looking forward to our next 10 when we get to celebrate our 4,000th show together. tavis: i'll do it if you do it. i'll stay if we stay. richard too. karen has a wonderful husband named richard. karen has never called me anything but mr. smiley. i how to -- thought she might break conversation. take it away. >> a conversation with ethan hawk coming up right now. >> there's a saying that dr. king had. he said it's always the right time to do the right thing.

i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we're only halfway to eliminate hunger. wal-mart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: ethan hawke has started in "training" and "precinct 13" but whatever he accomplishes as a director or writer he will

probably be remembered in part for the character of jesse who along with julie delpy is a couple who moviegoers have followed two decades first in "before sun rise" and again "before sun set" and let's take a look at a clip frp the film. >> i knew when i started this particular case that i might stumble on a few things that maybe somebody would have overlooked. >> might stumble, you in fact did uncovered some additional information that the cops overlooked. >> first, let me say there are a lot of good police officers an i do not in any way disparage what they do. but in police world doing something wrong can mean ruining somebody life. what does better seeing your movie or see your book that is now on the best seller list? >> the justice. tavis: that's not before

midnight. >> that's my favorite work with my favorite theme partner of all time. tavis: that's not julie delpy. > you don't look like a french faetalle. tavis: that movie was made for just a few million dollars and grossed almost 50. i didn't get a call for "before midnight" -- >> yeah -- tavis: i think my track record s pretty good. >> you're the little piece of good luck. tavis: that's what i think. but anyway. enough of that nonsense. t's take a clip from "before midnight." >> hey, can i ask you a question? >> sure. >> if we're meeting for the first time on a train, would you find me attractive? >> of course. >> no, but really right now as i sam, would you start talking to

me, would you ask me to get off the train with you? >> well, i mean, you're asking a theoretical question what would my life be? wouldn't i be cheating on you? yes?y can't you just say >> i would lock eyes with you. and i would tell you, hey, baby, you are making me as horny as a billy goat. >> is that an elvis line. >> that is. you're making me as horny as a billy goat in a pepper patch. tavis: it works for you. speaking of working is working everywhere i look. so "time" magazine, i open it up, bam. there you are. >> i look like a latin lover there. i feel like i tangoed or

something. tavis: then i'm opening up "new york" magazine and -- >> oh, wow. check that out. tavis: bam. there you are in new york. >> uh-huh. tavis: and i'm reading "entertainment weekly" and bam, there you are. dude, this thing is everywhere. there's already talk about -- there's already oscar buzz on this thing particularly for your role. what do you make of this so soon? it's not even out yet. >> you know, i think there's something that really is strange and unique and people like about being able to follow characters over so much time. and i don't -- like -- any time like i've done anything that people thought was good, 90% of it thought it was by accident. you know, we never had a plan when we did "before sun rise."

let's make an epic love story that goes over 20 years. we wouldn't -- somehow that idea wouldn't work. but it's just fallen into our lapse. an i love working with julie. she's one of the most live and vibrant and funny and smart women i've ever worked with or .ome across in any capacity and we have a great film maker. what am i supposed to say? it makes me happy that people like it. makes me nervous that maybe they'll stop liking it tomorrow. i love playing these carblingers. so the idea that people want to see it and like it makes me very happy. tavis: tell me about that story arc because i'm not a film maker. but that's like a long arch like two decades, three films. at's a serious, you know, --

>> look into this relationship. julie and i are writing these movie. so we're co-writing with our direct tor. not only am i acting with her we're also co-writing. it's an intense thing to do but the arc is what? they're two people, strangers that meet on a train. they nal love. but ironically if we made this movie now, it wouldn't happen. they had no way to communicate. they never exchanged phone numbers. now it would be ridiculous to think that you wouldn't have cell phones. we'd be texting nude photos of each other. but in that time period, they lost each other. the second film is he was so deeply affected by her, he ended up -- when you first meet him he's an inspiring writer. now he's written a novel. it's the end of the long book

tour. she shows up at this book signing. they have this other very intense meeting about what could be. and this third one, now it's not about fantasy. it's not about romantic projection. we find them in the mix of a for real love affair. they have kids. they're dealing with all the kind of nonsense of life. and it's a little -- a bit of the movie -- the movie is about -- it takes on what the other two movies ignored which is daily life. how do you keep romance alive when you got to go grocery shopping, romance alive -- you know, just the dailyness of life. tavis: how many times have you been asked whether or not any of this writing mirrors the development, the growth, the journey of your own relationships over these 20 years? >> these movies are made from -- the fabric of our own lives. i mean jesse is a lot me. jesse is a lottery charde

linkletter. jesse is some yullie del pi. it's certainly true that when you look at the movie, i weigh like 15 pounds. i was really depressed. i was going through a divorce. so was jesse. you find jesse is in a happier place. the way these films are constructed, we're using our life. we're trying to make something -- it's not some kind of naval gazing. it's trying to use our life to make something beautiful. that's the goal. tavis: how do you know that -- you have a great life. but how do you know that using your life will work on paper? >> you don't know. but the idea -- it's really not my life. if you tell in detail for real the real story of tavis, right, you're going to end up, if you tell the truth -- tavis: in jail. >> and that would be interesting to watch. [laughter] >> that's kind of the point that if you -- anybody, all of us our

experiences are not that unique. we fall in love. we don't want to die. we don't want bad things to people we love. we don't understand why we're misunderstood. you know, aside from a few diabolical figures, most of us can relate to another if we tell the truth. and we can recognize it. and that's the goal. it's not that my life is so interesting or julie's life is so interesting. it's just that we're just representatives of our generation and our development, you know, where we are. tavis: first scene, like 14 -- my stopwatch. >> 14 minutes long. tavis: talk to me about the reason for doing that, why you think it works? that's a long opening scene but it works obviously. >> you're diving into these people's lives. and i think richard linkletter has this idea that, you no, if

you don't manipulate people, they believe you. and so we rehearsed this take. you know, it was probably 21 pages of dialogue. we were driving a car. -- the kids are a sleep in the car. it was an idea that rick had had that when you're young you're always talking and you know you're with a woman and she's with you and you're philosiphizing. as you get oler those moments are harder to find. the time it happens when the kids are asleep and we're in the back of the car. that was the germ that started this screen play. what are they talking about? what's on their mind? this is the way to open the movie, just dive right in and be in the car right with them.

i think it works. tavis: it does work. that's a lot of dialogue to remember. >> yeah. julie and i always joked that when we work on these movies we feel that -- all we seem to do is run lines. -- un lines on the way o to way to set. that's what i was going to tell you about the two girls. when the take's going well, i start to get scared is that the girls fall asleep. the language of these movies is a big part of what makes the movies. tavis: were the challenges in , is relationship inevitable was it natural, was that written in to make it more interesting? because this relationship is challenged in this film for lack of a better word. >> well, yeah, we wanted to reate a scenario where two

well-meaning people who actually love each other and actually want the best for each other that it's actually difficult. you know, we see tons of things in movies an television stuff where he's an alcoholic. she cheated on him. he's bad. t's real easy as -- to point the finger as to who's wrong. in real life, nobody's really the bad people. lot os people love each other and struggle to get along. and they finger point. but we wanted for the audience not to have a clear finger -- you know that -- two people struggling to love each other is hard enough without any obvious bad guy. and we want to make a movie about that. tavis: yeah. this is inside your -- this is your lane, not mine. >> you did some pretty great scene work up there. don't sell yourself short there. i mean, come on man.

toif yeah, whatever. i'm just a movie goer here. but this doesn't strike me as a sequel. it strikes me as the story of .hese two lives as they advance what -- what -- what in terms of film og graphy, what other movie series of movies is there something else that's done that that i'm unaware of that i need to check out? >> there's more obvious in literature. there are a lot of books where each book stands alone, different. the obvious example is john updike's series. if you read them as whole, they work. there are lots of examples in literature. there's no that many. i mean, that's the truth. they exist. i can't think of any besides

these films. tavis: that was one of the ways of getting why then you and july ji -- >> richard. tavis: richard thought that it could work once, twice, three times. >> we never thought that it could work. the funny thing about richard is that he doesn't care if it works. julie said nothing's happening in this movie. we need more jokes. we should call up woody allen. this isn't going to work. and rick just said to her, i'm interested. i'm interested in you. i spent the whole summer with you. i'm still interested in you. and if somebody can't sit and be with you and see a real human being and they find that unappealing then this movie is not for them. we -- that's the truth of these movies. i don't think -- the only three people that wanted "before sun

set" to get made were rick, julie and i. we were like the only people interested. over time because of the benefit of d.v.d.'s -- i mean we're the lowest grossing trilogy of all time. tavis: that also makes you the highest grossing one -- >> our joke is that everybody ved "before sun set" and before midnight," it will be a failure. we're all kind of amazed as the response -- tavis: that's why i started with that. for whatever reason this thing caught on. a lot of people beyond the three of you who are interested how things turn out which raise as couple of questions. what does that say to you about

the moviegoer? give me a profile. give me some words about what it says about the movie goer who's interested in this trilogy. >> i think that they're a lot of people throughout that don't want to be talked down to. and most of the stuff we get force fed and we go see it, all of us do because it's something to talk about and something to do. but so many -- particularly of romances like if you go see a romantic movie -- a girl is dragging you. it's some female dopey movie that has no relationship to how you feel about romance, right? or it's a woman being dragged to some macho point of view about it all, you know? and what i think is unique about withoutvies is that are a specific agenda. i mean agender, agenda. it's not "sleepless in seattle"

where all the girls love. it's not eva mendes crawling cross a trance am and -- transam and men think it's cute. my character has a lot of problems. he doesn't handle everything right. is behavior in the past hasn't been perfect. and he's still a human being that wants to have a great life. celine is a woman worthy of being loved. and i think that you don't see clear three-dimensional portraits of men and women trying to love each other very often. tavis: this notion of being able to use -- to exercise your own artistic freedom, your own artistic agency, to do something that matters to you even if it doesn't matter to the audience. in this case it's caught on. but tell me more about that freedom because every one of us wants to be free. we all want to be liberated.

that's not always easy to do when it comes to makes choices, artistic choices. tavis: you must know that with your show. you have a certain obligation to make an entertaining show. and you've got a certain obligation to your audience to give them something viable but also if all you did was talk about your specific political agenda, your things that only you didn't broaden your net, right, the show would suffer. as an actor, i think that's the thing. sometimes you get created freedom and you get to do something special. and you do it. and you do wit a pure heart and everything. and nobody cares. but you cared. and you learned something. i mean, i know like for example, people really responded to "training day." i got a lot of accolades about that performance. but i knew that there was a that i did with richard

somehow -- my confidence went to a new level. i knew that. nobody saw that movie. i done win any awards for that movie. but i knew that it took me somewhere. and that's what i needed to do. and that's what gave me the confidence to be a par of that movie. you know, and each person inside themselves has to navigate what works for them and when you're a musician, sometimes you have to play at a wedding. sometimes you have to pay the piper. it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with doing a wedding. tavis: do i take that answer just now to mean that for you, this project has already been successful or is there now a benchmark that you want to or i think you have to reach given this third film? because the first one was the success for you was just getting it done. >> yeah. and then the second was cue deto be with my friends again. and then the second one, the

second one people noticed and that felt good. you know, i've made a bunch of movies -- this is now going to sound corny probably. but a lot of the people reviewing the movie have been -- have finally, i felt really understood or starting to understand richard linkletter's work. i think he's a really special film maker and so in that way it's already a success for me. i mean, you have friends. you know. you watched them struggle. you watch them do great work. and you know, whatever. but when a friend -- when a friend, you know, hits it and people notice, i'm happy. tavis: speaking of accolades before my time runs out, the last time i saw you was in new york. you were doing a great piece of work. you were happy with that run, attack it? >> i was. doing theater, i mean, for me that was a great moment in time.

when you came it was a particularly great night because it captures something they really believe in. sincester was coming out all over the country. it's this horror movie that's playing everywhere. and i'm doing a check-off play on 13th street in new york. and it's kind of -- it was a high-low thing, you know? i really love that. i -- you know, if i can keep mixing it up like that, doing some things that -- i just not being controlled by what some other people think is high or low -- tavis: i was going to say -- a turn-on. i get the stheans it's necessary for you, part of your d.n.a. to have this balance. you don't always have to do blockbusters. if you can do them at the same time, that's cool. why is that mix so critical? you're onry like that. >> a lot of successful people

get a trademark. like coca-cola. i am this. i feel like -- it puts you in a little glass box and you can't do anything else. if you try to be too highbrow and elite and i do my check-off list, there's something dusty and stagey that i think is phony because the idea of acting, i want to communicate. that character in "sincester" was fantastic. i mean, he ruins it. the whole family gets killed. it's terrible. but it's a hard character. you try to play a character that make an audience care about such a person. well, where do i learn? you learn doing check-off on 13th street because that's really tough, you know? and so for me i feel like each think makes me better in a different way. -- don't want to be in anybody's box.

tavis: the new project is called "the new midnight" starring ethan hawke and julie delpy. i should tell you tomorrow night will appear again tomorrow night, friday night. friday night happens to be our 2,000th episode. 10 years. >> congratulations. that's something, man. toif 10 -- tavis: 10 years, 2,000 shows. ethan is one of the people that will get featured tomorrow night. until then, ethan, congratulations. this is going to do very, very well. >> thank you. tavis: thank you for watching as always. keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley on pbs.org. tavis: i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with laura dern in her role in "enlightened."

we'll see you then. >> there's a saying that dr. king had. he said it's always the right time to do the right thing. i just tried to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we're only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger. and we have a lot of work to do. wal-mart committed to $2 billion to fight hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we could stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.cer:

(♪) matt elmore: welcome to imagemakers a weekly showcase featuring the best short films from around the world. stay tuned and enjoy the filmmakers of tomorrow today on imagemakers. imagemakers is made possible in part by a grant from: celebrating the vitality and power of the moving image. and by the: (♪ dramatic music ) (♪)