tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis visit with phil jackson. he earned 11 championship rings and basically created a new on court for capillary for the game. -- vocabulary for the game. his book is called "11 rings." beforee with him just the miami heat won their second nba championship in his many years. a replay with phil jackson coming up right now. >> there is a saying that dr. king had. he said, there is always the right time to do the right thing.

i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: phil jackson quit after learning -- earning 11 rings. practicallyt stop

every team in the league from pursuing him to come back. coach, no questions about your comeback. that decision may be forthcoming, we shall see. he spends a lot of time in montana where he writes books, detailing his philosophy about winning and losing. "11 rings, the soul of success." i really love the subtitle. >> everything pales behind winning. make a big statement, the losses to detroit and to boston were real moments that were tough to get by. player, we lost to the

lakers and 71, 72. we were able to win 72 and 73 against the laker team. tavis: if one can get addicted to winning, what is the antidote for that? it is an addiction like anything else, you see where i am going with this. what do you do about that? if you lose, it is a deep thought. it was the innovator of the triangle offense. players ofed the your own success through the last success of the night.

you are not a success right now. we are back to square one. we will climb this letter again. -- ladder agian. -- again. it is so ephemeral, it is gone. how long it took the nine months or eight months. tavis: to your point, and i think you are right, the nothing really compares to that feeling of euphoria. navigated through those periods when you didn't win the big one? it was renewed energy to come back. things that i noticed in my own career is that it was

hard for teams that went into a successful season to lose in the finals and come back the next year. came back at us, the utah jazz. with the lakers, we never had anybody that was successful coming back at us in subsequent years. those things have demoralized a team and you have to really regenerate a team and start all over again. the finals, but that is not the penultimate thing. win is what is important because you have to put all your energy into that. does our society put too much focus on winning? >> it really does. it details behind the ncaa game

issue. down in the first half, came roaring back into the game. it was a game in which you congratulate both the teams for what they have done. we have had a few of those that have happened in our last few years. duke, it was the final shot whether they were going to win or lose. those of the things that are remarkable about college basketball. those are the moments that really stand out. i do think there is so much emphasis on winning that you sometimes look at teams like the buffalo bills or the minnesota vikings.

they always got to the super bowl but never got to the championship. tavis: you gave examples of the college game. one of those examples had sportsmanship written in it. is the nba lacking in sportsmanship? in these playoffs that we are still in right now, the technicals are off the chart. drag you down this road of what happened in the game, but what happened to the finesse. it is all muscle. is that theyes me are complementary to each other.

we see the bird man get his suspension for a game. it draws that attention to it. , thethe best players golfers encouraged each other to play better through the masters, it was a lot of fun to see that. the problem with living in a society where everything is about getting one's self against the other? zen, youke from your are the best you can be and you in the position of asking between kobe and michael. into thet want to get better or best aspect, but these

are the attributes that separate them. they are so alike. the competitive drive, the scoring capabilities, they are so great. that is why everybody compared the two of them. those are the differences. individually, they stood out and remarked on those. it was more from the standpoint michael compared the only person that really had the gift that he had, kobe. that was the echelon that he had reached. toust want to point out other athletes, there are some things that were different. one of the things that were different was michael's education. in the process, he had to learn

a few things about himself. controlled. a playing in the system. patients. -- patience. he had his moments. kobe, he could not wait. his talent was so good that he could go there. there was something he missed out on, he could have enjoyed learning from a beginner's mind, the process of basketball. what separates those players that have the killer instinct? i want the ball. i will take the last shot. what about those that are competitive that don't have that thing? >> success. tavis: folks have been unsuccessful teams that don't possess that killer instinct.

aboutre is something wanting to stand in the spotlight. the ball is the spotlight. is a guy that vacillates between wanting to do that and wanting to get somebody else involved. that dichotomy he has going on all the time, i have to take this on all by myself or can i involve other guys in this process? kobe, ihael and with might be better at doing this than anybody else on this team. but i am very pleased that they moved into the realm of sharing and the critical moments with the teammates. i can't think of any example in my own life where i have vacillated on something, so what is the downside about isron vacillating echo he

one of the best in the game right now. if he continues to vacillate , what is theemand downside of that? >> we have seen a couple of things. he ran a seven game against the boston celtics a few years back that kind of pushed him out the door. not have enough teammates or activity for a winning combination. he went to miami where he felt like he had the support group. we are seeing the disintegration of that. tavis: much was made of this big three coming to miami. there were other teams that

tried to do that same sort of thing. if we can get these three big guys are major players, we can pull this off. is that the way to win championships? that player that you have to build around. >> the general manager used to ay that we have never seen two guard that has won a championship. guy, a power forward. it was bill russell, will chamberlain all the time.

houston won, with that center combination. there is not really a magic formula. the important thing is to bring the rest of the group in. effort.o be a team even though they have more over this game more than any other sport that we watch, basketball is the one that the individual has the most advantage in a team sport. value talking about the of teams playing together, they talked about michael, scottie, rodman.

you mentioned this in the text, but what were you thinking when rodman made his journey to north korea? dennis rodman as the ambassador. he barely talks, but obviously, they had great communication. now we have to send him to a ran and see what happens there. -- iran and see what happens there. are who believe that we we are because somebody loved us. i am fascinated by people's back story when it comes to what parents are concerned. tell me about charles and elizabeth. marriage ofs had a

passion, and that passion was religious belief. fromther's family came puritans in massachusetts and my mother's family was mennonites from russia, moving around europe doing low land reclamation work. they moved to minnesota, and their fervor caught them in this pentecostal movement. of the churches that came it was that denomination. my father did not consider himself learned. he had a dairy farm and felt a calling. i was dedicated as a child in the service of god.

there was this centering of a greater purpose. wasindividual effort knowing that my mother was a tremendous competitor. and it was about the dedication towards the one, moving towards the one. our lives were centered around church and doing the right service. people help over here doing various things that were beneficial to the community or to church. , heather was a humble man rose to become the superintendent of churches in montana. he went back to being a pastor.

sitting in a pew, watching my let the my mother service as a spiritual person. she would ask if i was right with the lord. if you died today, would you go to heaven? she was always spreading the word in estonia. my father is a man that went around to jails and hospitals and visited people. he was a man that people really a doored -- adored and liked. i had pilot lights ahead of me that dragged me along with this course of action. i think it brought me to where i am as a basketball coach even was the service of a group and a greater purpose. tavis: unless the lord is ables

or laker fan. -- a bulls or laker fan. before i fell in love with you as a coach, and all of the rest of what you represent as a winner, i grew up in a pentecostal church myself. i connected with you on that upbringing. i raise that because -- i say this with all due respect. i will hear about this in 15 minutes when the show is over. pentecostalism can be somewhat dogmatic. their faith can end up being somewhat dogmatic. somehow, you either broke from it or did not get trapped by it. so much so that you have been able to go on your own spiritual journey. how did that happen? i think we were taught to

have an open mind. this, myocess of doing mother was a lutheran in my father was a methodist. they come out of their of their pentecostal belief. dogmatism grew out of that. a parishioner will call and say we saw your daughter wearing capri pants. other people were against boys and girls swimming together. there were so many things that were dogmatic. my parents say, you have to really feel what the spirit does. they kind of taught us to go out and feel. the first time that i heard , for example, it

struck a blow to my fundamental belief that i had to deal with as an individual. afraid ofp and be other dogmatic things that come into my head, or will i have to push them out all the time because i have something that overrides it? buddhism,t way with the first time that i thought about it. they don't worship a god, for example. how is that possible? buddha it is about the enlightenment within you. i started dealing with the term yahweh. that i am that presence within us. it started to click with me that there is something within us that leads us and guide us. -- guides us.

it is not voice so much as credence. when you are exposing your players to the spirit that , didave exposed them to they welcomed that? did you sense resistance? many of these young people, young guys that you are coaching are searching something. i am trying to get a sense of how that was matt by michael and the other guys in the locker room. >> it was presenting them with a idea that was -- here is process that we are going to explore. to stay present. now you go in the weight room and lift weights. this is strengthening your mind.

when you stay focused and you can use that focus to always come back with your breath, your floating in the moment. i did not have to get religious and dogmatic. those guys are always receptive. i was pleased with how much risk activity -- receptivity. so many of them have felt the spirit in their life. tavis: i can't do justice to this book in a 30 minute conversation or in a full show. i want to close with that other question that you will get asked as long as you live. covered earlier in this conversation, michael or kobe? shape or form,

why does phil jackson matter? whatn't anybody have done phil jackson did with the crew that he had in chicago or l.a.? ?hy do coaches matter why did phil jackson matter? >> it is a collision of things that are happening. people come together in certain moments in our unique. -- and are unique. i had interview opportunities before that were necessary, an expansion team, another team that was not going anywhere. i was not taken as a coach. i was not dogmatic or charismatic enough to be that coach. worth that.nly guidance.e there is a

i was fortunate and i was ready to be in the right place at the right time. you know that scripture. tavis: i know it well. it is a great scripture. :he book is called "11 rings the soul of success." written by the guy that has 11 rings, plus two. numbery is used to being one, so he is comfortable with that. i enjoyed having you. that is our show for tonight. thanks for watching. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a booker teamn with for the new cd called "sound the alarm."

>> there is a saying that dr. king had. he said, there is always the right time to do the right thing. i just try to live my life every day by doing the right thing. we know that we are only about halfway to completely eliminate hunger and we have a lot of work to do. walmart committed $2 billion to fighting hunger in the u.s. as we work together, we can stamp hunger out. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.

% hello. and welcome to this is us. we're at history san jose time stands still. this living history exhibit is one to san jose most interesting historic buildings. we're going to take you into them. the first school built in the state. the old steven's ranch fruit barn and working print shop. we'll also visit with former member of franklin roosevelt -- did you notice they camped here? stick around we're going to have some fun.