tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with jazz great wayne shorter who is on a celebration of his 80th birthday with friend and collaborator herbie hancock. he will debut his latest composition at disney hall in l.a. written for grammy winner esperance a spaulding. he has released a cd titled "without a net. he is also about to receive the lifetime achievement award from thelonious monk institute. better thanet much wayne shorter. we are delighted to have a conversation with him coming up right now.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: when wayne shorter was studying music back in the 50s, he first confused and then impressed his professors by

combining classical music with jazz. musical barriers were meant to be broken. both with his own recordings and in the rock fusion group weather report. there are so many clips i could share with you tonight about his career, but i decided to take this one from 1967. ♪ tavis: congrats on the's 80

years, for starters. >> thank you. tavis: what do you make of this journey so far? >> i was telling someone at my birthday party that i am eight. the same kind of feeling that i had at eight years old, i'm collecting these little statues of captain marvel and wonder woman. [laughter] does it feel to still have the pipes to do what you do at 80? now, thatess oxygen is why it helps not to have the that hasand read music been written because you have played long lines with a lot of wind. i have to find another way to andess with improvisation have a lot of room for the other musicians to have a voice, too.

blessing that i don't have that much wind. tavis: alan iversen, practice? what are you talking about, practice? mean you don't spend as much time or her sing -- rehearsing? is mostly about improvisation. how do you rehearse the unknown? miles used to say that when you are practicing something, you will go on stage and do variations of what you practiced. there is no surprise. dealing with the unknown and unexpected is a reflection of me and what is happening in the world today. people are learning to dialogue with each other without any past strategy or any kind of formula from the past. young person,

you're not suggesting they don't have to spend time -- you could not have done this 80 years ago. together,r foundation practice scales, all of that. charlie parker taught me that. you mean i have to learn all these keys? c goes, yes. and then forget it. tavis: how much have you forgotten? are you still learning new stuff? more about life . i am learning more about connections. what we are doing is not disconnected from human behavior.

sometimes you full people. fool people. it is really dark and negative human behavior. i want to erase the contradictions that have arisen too many times in this world. tavis: how is what you're learning about life show up in your performance? >> when i hit the stage, the first thing i am actually thinking about, let's put away our credentials. grammys, awards. keep the eagle under handcuffs and go out on stage home herbal.

-- vulnerable. go out on stage as a human being and don't be afraid to show struggle in your music. it is a struggle in life. there is another victory in the struggle. not like you're going out there that you know it all. that this is a perfect performance. i am glad you are going there because that is totally antithetical to the way most artists hit the stage these days. you want a good review so you had better be rehearsed, practiced, proficient. you say that the trick is to go on stage and be vulnerable. nobody wants to do that. what is the new york times going to say tomorrow morning?

being vulnerable is having the courage to go out there , facing the unknown. and how you negotiate the unexpected. to me, it is once upon a time. aboutre you going to say once upon a time? creative is to be more and pull out of the depths of .ur human existence this necessity for creative endeavor to change the world. being a jazz musician and working with the greats, what does it teach you about the value or the overrating of individuality? the value of individuality

comes to me when i see miles or coal train in a nightclub -- nightclub doing solos. silent night. nobody applauds. the individual thing is coming out here. they are not playing for applause. say that he is playing to get there. to get somewhere. he did not say at the expense of the audience. he was actually listening closely towards the acoustics of the room. individual, to me, what

we need more now is individuals .ecoming leaders in life becoming much more respectful of each other. raised conditions to the point that we can help each other. small increments that i see popping up in the classical world. why do you say "so-called jazz world?" >> the notion that if it doesn't sound like jazz, it isn't. but to me, the word jazz means "i dear you." [laughter] -- "i dare you." [laughter] tavis: i like that.

you said leaders should be leaders and we don't have to be followers. i take what you mean by that. can music teach all of that? we all know that music is not being taught in our schools the way it used to be. there is a huge price that our country pays for that. i am trying to get a sense for what we are missing or lacking. what we are void of by not exposing kids to music the way that we used to back in the day. nyu, thiswent to teacher asked the class, how long have you had a hard time in math? how many had a hard time? the whole class raise their hand. this is a music composition class. you are doing math now. it slammed everybody in the face.

when i am writing the score, there is a lot of math involved. it is how far you want to go. you want to make everything simple. without music and art in the schools, there is a simplistic view of life for many in the student body. we are taught to go to sleep at the opera. tavis: i hear you. the answer to this question might be one in the same. when did wayne shorter know that he was gifted as an artist? and when did you know that this was going to be your life's work?

happen bac?t >> i was playing hooky from high school in north new jersey. i skipped class. tavis: not you. >> i skipped a lot of classes and they caught me. they would go through all the classrooms. mother and do? father there, i had my forged notes. what we arecide going to do with you, where did theater.here is a

dizzy gillespie, others. huh?ike the stage, he had on his desk three records. he was a disciplinarian, two. i am not really thinking about music. i am thinking about how to get out of that class. it was latin america. the rite of spring by igor's event ski. the third one was charlie parker. three directions. i took that final test.

i was the first one to get up. i thought i did something wrong. when you get up, leave the classroom. i was opening the door to leave and she said, class, i want to show you something. she had on the front, 100. i want you to think about this because a lot of them have not studied -- had been studying since they were six years old. this is a perfect test paper and i want you to think about it. i was walking down the hall and thinking about it, too. >> there is a lot in that story that i could unpack that tickles me and turns me on. the part i am most moved by is that when you were skipping today, if that happened i literally just months ago did

a primetime special called education under arrest and it was about how we are criminalizing kids in society. people don't take the time to the child how gifted is and why they might be skipping school. you arrested me with that. someone was interested enough to find out what mattered to you and what you're good at. and before they punished you, they put you in that class. some judge, you get kicked out of school. they kick you out of school for skipping school. somebody cared enough back then to understand that you did have a gift and your punishment needed to include putting you

where you could flower and flourish. the other classes heard the name. you dress well, your mother and father, they are good people. a mystery of why he was leaving school. >>is: why were you leaving e some of the classes. i want to go see this movie. about other people doing it, but i went alone. the class was, i guess, boring. i would walk up to the school room. building,lk past the turnaround around, go to the theater. got to the class,

achille's demico's class. i liked his name. the greek lore, legend. i thought i would listen to the radio a lot. i heard him conducting. kentucky onee every sunday. i did not mind reading the subtitles. people, i started enjoying the painting, enjoying what i wanted. the whole science fiction comic book called another world.

.me -- i went on to nyu i met people there in greenwich village. he would be there eating some time. i went somewhere else. we went to bird land a lot. tito rodriguez and dizzy gillespie, i am sitting there watching billie holiday. this is when i was a senior. i said, all the stuff is happening. got back and made up for lost time. my time is up and i could do this for hours with you.

>> the first time we played at a nightclub, it was the first time and his name -- at the end of the night, she and her husband walked backstage. she walked out and shook hands. you guys are playing with him and they left. it didn't sink in. but later, we were at university. we had scientists and all that. without aist said net. is that a song on the album? that is the title.

this young scientists, they connected whether they are alive. tavis: the project is called "without a net." i have a few more minutes to talk but i am going to save my questions for another night because wayne shorter has brought a special guest with him tonight and i was just delighted to see her walk in the door. in sayingat pride that years ago before the rest of the world knew her, i was delighted to have esperanza spalding on the show before she became a grammy winner in 2011. she is on the side over here. performance special from wayne shorter with

esperance of by his side. coming up in just a moment. stay tuned, we are back in just a moment. and now, a special performance of wayne shorter joined by special guest artists who was on this program long before she was honored with a grammy in 2011. wayne shorter joined by esper -- sperance a spalding esperanza spalding. good night from los angeles, and keep the faith. ♪

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♪ [applause] >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with musician dave stewart about his new cd, "lucky numbers."

he will also perform. that is next time, we will see you then. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. thank you. >> be more.announcer:

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