tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, first a conversation with dr. alvaro huerta, the author of "reframing the latino , towards a debate" legalistic paradigm about millions in this country without documentation. a bipartisanssed deal that included a path to citizenship. that deal has stalled in the house. now, there is caution that some reforms may be forthcoming. just last week, republican leaders announced their strategy for passing the immigration reform. we will turn then to a conversation with singer-songwriter shelby lynne, whose new cd, titled simply has been just released. those conversations are coming up right now. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: the legal status of some 11 million undocumented immigrants remains front and center in our political debate read -- debate. both parties know they must pass immigration

reform to engage latino voters in recent elections. dr. alvaro huerta is the author of a recently -- of a recent manifesto. chis a professor at usc's cano studies. i want to start with this list in my hand. as i said mama most everybody knows that the senate passed a bipartisan measure in june of last year. it is the house, no surprise, where this immigration reform legislation has been stalled. days ago, republicans really their own set of principles and frames this conversation about how we might get some legislation, maybe in small pieces, to advance the notion of immigration reform. what thesealk about six republican principles are an hear from you as to whether or not it sounds like a humanistic

paradigm. number one on the republican list of principles that ought to borderhis debate, security and interior enforcement must come first. number two, implement and tree, exit visa tracking system. number three, employment verification and workplace enforcement. amber for, reforms to the legal immigration system. number five, youth will not be punished for their parents' mis but they must -- meet certain eligibility standards, have a college degree, or serve in the military. number six, individuals living outside the rule of law, and this is the big one, no special path to citizenship. they must learn english, pay back taxes, go through a rigorous background check and not need government support. number six is the big one. nancy pelosi, the leader of the

democrats in the house, has already said that last issue is a dealbreaker for her. like movingst sound towards a humanistic paradigm? >> i think we are moving against a humanistic paradigm or we have been going towards it big brother state when it comes to immigrants in this country. what the nsa is doing with surveillance, it is just an extension of that. after 9/11, we see the border havecement, where billions been invested in the border. we have surveyed it with drones, officials being doubled, tripled. we have an enforcement policy that is a continuation of what the republicans are dictating at the moment. so it is very disappointing, what they are saying. sometimes not surprising. it is indicative of why they

lost the last election and 75% of the latino vote went to the democrats. tavis: speaking of a democrat who picked up most of that vote, barack obama, it does not take a rocket scientist to wear a suit and say -- and see this coming. has already said this point is a dealbreaker for her and her caucus. not to my surprise, president obama has basically said, let's talk about it. there may be a way to do this. he picks up all of these votes from latinos. he has made it clear he wants to negotiate on this last point. what do you make of that? >> i think he operates from a position of weakness. the democrats control the senate, the presidency. looks, the republicans will be president in 2016. -- the democrats will be president in 2016. there is no viable republican at

the moment. what barack obama and the democrats are doing, they are negotiating a position that is not in the interest of the tino vote, not in the interest of latino immigrants and also asian immigrants, immigrants from haiti and other countries. the problem is not 6, it is one through six. this is not an immigration reform proposal, it is a border enforcement reform proposal. it is all about enforcement and draconian measures to control immigrants in this country, to track them. at one point, when the economy takes a downfall, we are going to look at mass deportation. there is nothing good about this proposal whatsoever. tavis: there are two things i want to respond to. hillary wants to be president in 2016, she thought that in

2008 and that did not happen. barack obama is resident and no one saw him coming. it was funny, she thought that in 2008 and it did not quite happen. we will see what happens in 2016. i want to put this list up again now because some of these issues are issues that the president has agreed on and there are many number one, border security. people believe in border security. entry-exit tracking system, maybe we can debate that. employment verification and workplace enforcement, they are making people around the country get voter ids to vote. if you are an undocumented worker, you will not get past point number three. tell me why you think the entire list is nonsense. >> it does not take into account that the 11 million workers that are here, residents, they are productive. they work.

they pay taxes. tavis: no doubt. they pay taxes, but they do not receive the benefits of those taxes. undocumented immigrants do not qualify for medicare him a social security. -- medicare, social security. they are putting more into the system than they are getting. they are being punished. there is more surveillance and more deportation. almost 2 million undocumented immigrants have been deported since barack obama took office. all of these measures are already in place. what the republicans are trying to do, they are just doubling down. the immigration laws and the way the system exists, they are being implemented by the obama administration. what the republicans want to do is make it more difficult, even harder for immigrants to reside in this country. tavis: before i come to the epicenter of the text reframing

this immigration debate, i want to ask how we do that, but give me your sense as to how the latino community, not that i would put you on the spot to speak for all of you, but if nancy pelosi has already drawn the line and the president says let's see if we can figure something out, if he starts to quiver on this issue of a path to citizenship, what will happen inside the latino community? >> that is a good question. i think there will be lots of latinos and democrats that will support the president and compromise. the immigrants themselves, they do not compromise on certain issues. the dreamers, for example, the undocumented youth, they are ters of theeedom wri 1960's that went to the south and fought against jim crow. they have a lot of courage. actually, they are the ones that

encourage me to write about and speak out about these issues. a are willing to cross a border without documentation and come back and get arrested and deported. tavis: you do not think a piecemeal legislative process will work. >> it will not work for them. republicans and democrats are promising them a path to citizenship. they are rejected because their parents do not get citizenship. they are willing to reject it has -- because, based on their family values, they are asking for everything or nothing. their parents cannot get legal status, they do not want legal status. we do how it is that reframe the latino immigration debate, how do we move towards a humanistic paradigm? >> when we are looking at immigration reform, it is not about whether it is comprehensive or piecemeal, it is about if it is humane, just,

about dignity, respect. do we treat people with respect or do we mistreat them when those people are the ones who are painting our homes, taking care of our elderly, mowing our lawns, allowing the middle-class to do certain negative is because -- certain activities because they do not have to do domestic housework. allowing the privileged to pursue other opportunities because they have someone else mowing their lawn. this is the way republicans are paying back the same people that serve them on a daily basis. if republicans and conservatives truly believed that immigrants are a burden to society, then they should work on all goods and services that immigrants produce in this country, which would be impossible. you cannot go to a restaurant, a dry cleaner, you cannot park your car without an immigrant or store touching or providing those services. it is hypocritical of

republicans and conservatives, in particular, to talk about immigration and immigrants in such a negative manner when they are benefiting from their labor. tavis: yours is a humane frame. i take that. eing scale from 1-10, 10 b absolutely and 0 being no way, what do you think the chances are that, by the end of this year, something will have been passed, some legislation, robbery has a more piecemeal, signed into law -- three ordsome -- comprehensive piecemeal, signed into law by the president. >> i think -2. nothing is going to happen. the republicans are worried about the elections. paul ryan is already backtracking from the principles he put forward that you described. the republicans are not going to do anything. what they will do is, in 2016,

they will try to introduce something. they know that they are worried about 75% more latinos and not just latinos, asians, will vote democrat. this is one of the reasons why they do not want to give legal status or have documented -- undocumented immigrants become citizens, because they know it is just another potential democrat voter. at the end of the day for them, it is about the vote and it is lip service because they are afraid of what will happen in 2016. tavis: the name of the text is "reframing the latino immigration debate". , visiting huerta scholar at ucla. >> now that we have a good football team, we are proud of it. tavis: good to have you on the program.

stick around for a conversation with shelby lynne. tavis: grammy-winner, singer-songwriter, shelby lynn, one of my favorite people, have never shied away from her most personal experiences in her music. her new cd, titled simply "thanks", continues that trajectory. the lyrics are filled with a spirited vocabulary that is directed at faith. she has some lyrics that i cannot wait to talk about. the project was supported by her friend, singer maxine waters. you can see maxine waters in this new documentary. tomorrow night on this program, the first of tonight featuring some women from that documentary, my favorite of the year. tomorrow night, to show that you do not want to miss about "20 feet from stardom". shelby was encouraged by ms.

waters to make this ep. let's take a look at her singing her song "call me up" from her new cd, "thanks". ♪ tavis: that looks like the most comfortable studio i have ever seen. it looks like your living room. >> it kind of is. i got a new sofa and put the old one in there. tavis: it looks comfy. i would assume, after years of people going into recording

studios, i find more artists these days that record in their home studios. recording in an intimate surrounding, in your own personal space, may lend itself -- what am i trying to say? >> you have always wanted to sing in your living room. let's just move the equipment in here. that is what i have done a few times. move the tv and move everything right here. it can be done. i am guilty of it. tavis: what does being in your own space bring out of you in recording that might not have been brought out of you in some random, regular -- >> i remember when i was in the studio and i was 18. i needed some grease on my throat and i was thinking, this is polished. this is fancy. the singing part comes from in

here. it is hard if it is really air-conditioned. aretha will not sing with the air-conditioning on. it is uncomfortable, but rock 'n roll and soul music do not go with ac. whatever comes around in the living room -- tavis: rock 'n roll and soul music do not go with ac. write that down. that sounds like a lyric. speaking of lyrics, your stuff is always lyrically powerful for me. there are so many great lines in the content of this five-track ep. i want to jump right to this song, "this road i'm on". there is a line that says "faith keeps me busy trying to find it."

>> i knew you were going to ask me about that line. "faith keeps me busy trying to find it." tavis: how did you write that? >> because it is the truth. all of those swirling around the and that craziness and thinking, what it comes down to, i am grateful i am able to sing for a living because i do not think i could do anything else. tavis: you put another word out there that i want to go to. this is what i hear when i hear this project. by the way, i love the title, "thanks." just "thanks." what i hear when i hear this is gratitude. i was in a conversation with a couple of people the other day in my house about the fact that what the world lacks these days is gratitude. you do not need somebody kissing your behind, bowing down to you, but it would be nice every now

and then for the people around you, the people you come in contact with, the people you do stuff for, just to express a little gratitude. the world is lacking that. >> talking about the word thanks, it came from just writing that song, "thanks". in the last couple of years, i have done some soul-searching. i quit drinking. i put the bottle down and figured that was not for me. i was just getting not productive. if i could continue to drink brown liquor and be productive, it would be different, but it was not happening. that is just one of the soul-searching things. i realized in the searching, you know, how lucky am i to be able to get up every morning and say thanks for being able to sing for a living? when i tour and go out there and realize, when i see my audience, no matter how big or small, that

$35 was hard to come by. i am grateful that people spent it to come see me. it is my job to make them feel good. tavis: i believe they will. you must believe they will or you would not have done it. how do you think this project is going to speak to or be received by your core audience? it is a little bit of a departure from what you have done. how do you think they are going to receive it? >> i have the sweetest people that have followed me. i just got a letter from a 93-year-old woman's grandson. i had written her a letter early in my career and she had just passed. no matter what music i decided to do, i always got a hand written note from her.

i love what you are doing. and she was just past 97 years old. i have been lucky. the people that understand me that spend that $12 or whatever -- actually, it is going to be $7 because it is only five songs -- really understand it. i know i am a little wild and crazy and get out there. well, you just did this. ok. they are cool like that. tavis: i mentioned maxine waters a moment ago and you are so grateful, appreciative in your thanks to all of the singers, so many of them who are unheralded. you give them their props. >> maxine and i have been friends since i did my "love,

shelby" record. we met and we never parted. it is one of those connections. singing together and having faith together, it was kind of the core beginning of this record. just fooling around out at my place, maxine would come over and we would fool around. i cannot do it without you. i need that left hand. people know that maxine is a singer. her left hand on the piano -- tavis: it is a good left hand. >> she said, are you crazy? i cannot play on your record. i said, you have got to play the left hand on the piano. tavis: is this project just for you or is this project for us? >> it is for us. i will include myself in it. ben helped medy

throw this together and he and i do this thing together. 115 degrees in the desert, everybody got together and we threw these things down. i will not let them do it more than two or three times. tavis: because that is all you need. >> i was like, grab on, we are going to do this thing. you can do it to death, we can practice it to death, we can make it perfect, but is it really perfect if you do all that? tavis: reminds me of a line that miles davis was famous, infamous for going after his band members in the hallway. he was at a hotel and they would be rehearsing and he would say, stop that rehearsing. if you play that tonight, i will kick your behind. when you get on stage tonight, i want you to surprise me. do your thing on stage tonight. do not play it like that. >> i said, i do not expect you to play the record.

give me something that is better. you have got it in you. it happens. why i love her? she can come here anytime she wants. >> i love you too. tavis: i am always inspired by you. of all the projects i have done, this one -- >> you asked me about that line. "faith keeps me busy trying to find it." the struggle i was talking about, it is all in here. i am lucky that i get to sing and it makes you do the things that you're supposed to do naturally, but holding onto your faith is like holding onto your heart. for me, it is all you got. at the end of the day, it is all you got. tavis: one of my favorite bible ith is thethat "fa

substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." lot of great lyrics on this project. that is one that just hit me so hard. it is an ep, five tracks. you will love every one of them. it is called simply "thanks". i friend, shelby lynne, who am always delighted to see, congratulations. that is our show for tonight. things for watching. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a dash for the first of two conversations with dolly love and mary clayton. that is next time. we will see you then. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. daniel mansergh:

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