tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with one of the great walt disney animators. floyd norman, whose characterizations can be seen in the blu-ray release of the jungle book. norman began working for disney back in 1956 and earned a spot in hollywood history as the first african-american animator to work at that studio. norman still works as a consultant to the disney studios and chronicles his groundbreaking achievements in an autobiography called --imated life here co. "animated life." floyd normann with coming up right now.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. historyloyd norman made when he was hired by walt disney back in 1956 to work in that studio's famed animation department. he became the first african-american animator going on to contribute to such

outstanding movies such as the jungle book which is out in a new diamond edition blu-ray release. as well as sleeping beauty, 101 dalmatians, and continues to provide storyboards to the continued crop of animators. he can be seen in toy story two, a monsters, inc. autobiography is out. let's take a look at a clip from "the jungle book." of those faire weather friends of yours. you can believe in me. ♪ trust in me just in me shut your eyes and trust in me ♪

hold still, please. tavis: an honor to have you on this program, sir. there is so much to talk to you about, let me jump right in. let me get this out-of-the-way first because there is so much written given his immense contribution. so much written about walt disney. american, you have a unique perspective. as an anti-semite and his gender bias, you were up close to him. what do you make of walt disney the man? >> he was one of the greatest bosses i ever worked for. leader and a very fair man that treated men and women equally well. always exactly where they should have been.

walt was a conservative. but surprisingly enough, a real progressive. tavis: you were one of the only african -- you were the only african-american in the building. were you ever maltreated? >> not a bit. i was simply another young artist looking to get a job in this fascinating business. i never thought of myself as the first african-american or the first anything. i was simply another artist trying to get my foot in the door. lone: but you were the negro.

>> it caused a good deal of amusement for my coworkers as well. tavis: in what way ac? >> i was the only black face in the studio. a writer referred to me in his book as "the lone negro." it sounded to me like an african-american western hero. tavis: [laughter] >> it could have been. it was great. i had a fantastic time working at disney. though i was, in a sense, the couldegro, other people apply for a job. as a person of color and a black man, it is one thing to be applying for a job and wanting to get one.

how you wound up inside at disney in a moment, but take me back prior to this. you had a life and the talents long before walt disney discovered you. how did you get into the world of animation and cartoon? what did you do before disney discovered you? >> maybe i discovered disney. my mom took me to see dumbo when i was a little kid. tavis: still my favorite disney character after all these years. so entranced by this magical film. there was an evening performance, which is unusual. i saw this film and i was fascinated by these moving drawings on screen. i told my mom, when i grow up, that is what i want to do. i want to work for walt disney. after high school, i made my way down to the disney studio. they gave me some good advice. they told me to go to school. i can pass that same advice on

tickets today. you simply can't knock on the door and expect to get a job if you're not ready. i certainly wasn't ready. they told me, kid, go to school. some years later, i actually did get the job. i went to art center college of design in los angeles. prestigious school and i was a lucky kid to be able to attend art center. and learning the basics. i had to first learn how to be an artist, get the foundation and design drawing perspective. tavis: i presume you were drawing prior to that. i am trying to get a sense of how your gift was expressing itself before you got to art center. >> i think it expressed itself

every way possible. i used to draw on the walls. tavis: you would get a beating for that at my house. >> i would draw in the pages of my grandparents books. i would take a pen or a crayon and start drawing and sketching. you may recall, you may have copies in your own personal collection. what were some of your earliest renderings? what was coming out of your creative imagination? don't think i was all that different from most kids that started sketching in kindergarten and grade school. i do to same things that most boys drew. airplanes, cars, fire engines. later on, i discovered comic books and i began to create my own comic stories. i was a comic writer even when i was five or six years old. i would make up stories because

a thought it was fun. tavis: this question will sound naïve but i think you will take my point. how much does being a successful animator have to do with imagination? it is one thing to be given an assignment by a person and you go to work on the assignment. it is another thing to be an imaginative person trying to get a sense of how imaginative you were as a child. blessed with as rich imagination. i remember when i was a kid in school. they would set us kids down in a circle and tell us a story. i was always entranced by these incredible stories that these people would spend -- would spin . i would imagine the adventures and i could visualize them.

i had a vivid imagination and it served me well. let me get a bit more personal because i think imagination is a wonderful thing. and yet, i'm concerned about the fact that so many of our children, black and brown children in this country today, lack a vivid imagination beyond what they can see or what they cannot see me on their own immediate surroundings. give me a sense of your upbringing. and how your imagination was fast at work? others were conditioned by their surroundings and could not imagine beyond what they see every day. >> that is so true. i was a lucky kid because i grew up in affluent santa barbara homage california. barbara, california.

my upbringing was so much different from those that grew up in the south, for example. i was able to attend concerts, go to art museums. santa barbara was a rich cultural community and i had access to everything. i think that shaped me as an artist. i was very blessed having parents and grandparents that exposed me to theater, art, and encouraged me. not discouraged me, but encouraged me to pursue my dream . to pursue an art career. wherever that might lead me. we did not think there were any restrictions. at least when i was growing up. what kind of discouragement were you hearing and you are you hearing it from? >> sadly, i heard it from older

african-americans. many of them having grown up in the south. what i told them i was going to go work for walt disney, they said, i'm sorry. walt disney doesn't hire black people. they had no idea. tavis: but he hadn't at that point. mean that he not did not hire minorities. there were people, latino and asian working at the walt disney studio. no people of color had applied for a job. it was not because there were no jobs available for them. they simply hadn't applied. when i showed up, the issue of color was totally transparent. they just wanted to hire an artist with talent and ability. the color really meant nothing. tavis: i get this. i know you get it now. for so manyhese --

of these older african-americans, they did not see it as discouragement. they sighed as protecting you, they saw it as the truth. so far-fetched and running into this brick wall called racism and prejudice. isn't that interesting? because of what they endured, they did not see it as discouragement but as encouragement to do something else. >> very true. i can't understand that as i grew older. they were trying to prevent me from being hurt. they had the best of intentions. but of course, they did not realize that the world was changing at that time. how did this african-american family of yours end up in this affluent santa barbara?

>> very true. my aunt esther -- tavis: you had an aunt esther, too? [laughter] family grew up in mississippi. my aunt esther was working for a wealthy family who would summer in santa barbara, california. as to came to santa barbara, looked around, saw the beautiful mountains and the pacific ocean. she said, i found paradise. she said the word and my family packed up and headed for santa barbara, california. tavis: let me fast forward now. you have gone to the arts center. you knocked on the door. they said to go to school. how did you get inside of

disney? luckily, they kept my name on file from the first time i looked for a job. the studio found itself going through growth. not just growing, but exploding. they were making short cartoons, feature-length cartoons, loving a theme park in anaheim and had just gone into television. findant walt disney said, me some artists. i was one of the names on the list. they gave me a call and asked if i could be there monday morning and i said, i will be there monday morning. the rest is history. the first time around, i stayed 10 years. in 1966, sadly the same year of walt's passing. they were a glorious 10 years.

i did not leave because i was upset or discouraged. i left because i wanted to do my own thing. my partner, leo sullivan, and i had plans to produce films on african-american history. that was my reason for leaving disney but it was a great 10 years. tavis: describe those 10 years having a chance to work alongside mr. disney. truth, mostou the people did not work alongside walt disney. i never expected to myself. i was downstairs working in the animation department. it so happened that in 1966, walt disney got into an argument with one of his top story men. well-known and well-respected, developing "the

jungle book." he did not like his take on the film. they got into it and bill walked off the picture and never came back. it opened the door for a new story crew and i was one of the lucky kids recruited to join the story came on the jungle book. that meant i would be in meetings with walt disney, something i never expected. tavis: what do you think of "the jungle book" these years later? >> i confess that i have to smile when i see the response to this motion picture. kids have come up to me and say they came into the animation business because they saw this movie as a child. it inspired them to be an animator. they wanted to work in animation. i found that hard to believe because the movie i worked on i never thought of as being that good, quite frankly. [laughter] it was my first movie is a story

artist. was, the old man seemed to like it. we finished the movie and it went out. i guess we did our job. tavis: i am jumping ahead, but i will come back. since you thought that first movie wasn't all that good, you see how it inspired people for generations now. what, for you, has been the joy in being an animator? i am a kiss to hear your answer. i know what i get when i see animation at work. animation at its best. as a creator, what has been the joy? what does it give to you? on a career that i suppose people might envy.

when i was a little kid in santa floor insitting on the my grandmother's house, dreaming of maybe one day working for that dream, to have come true is pretty remarkable. i have had the opportunity to amazing andmber of exceptional motion pictures. i had the opportunity to work with some of the most amazing the business. even though it was hard work at times, it was always magical. even the down times i enjoyed because we were creating something that would make people smile and with their hearts. you can't think of a better job than that. tavis: i thought you would get to that. the smile and the lifting of the hearts. disney, but i

think animation for children and for adults, at its best, to affirm our humanity. the characters of color these days, it affirms the humanity and all of us. i look for kids to take to the movie theater so i don't walk and buy myself. animation is such a beautiful thing and it really affirms our humanity. >> i have been able to take my kids and also been able to share this same experience with my grandkids. that is a wonderful thing and they think grandpa is pretty good. you leave the studio and you and your partner, leo, hook up. i come along now at about this time as a kid. not too long thereafter, before

we start to see bill cosby and fat albert on saturday morning, i could not wait to watch the jacksons. the osmonds were cool, too, but i love the jacksons. and i love fat albert. you got together before we saw that series? back in the 60's, we heard scuttlebutt that bill cosby was thinking about going into animation. leo and i grabbed an old bill cosby record, lp's, and we transferred it to film. and we made a little animated segment of fat albert open to show it to bill cosby. it took a while, but bill did see it. specialhe fat albert back in 1967 and 1968. nbc, full-color

animation. it was shown one time, sadly. but out of that half-hour special came the saturday morning tv series "fat albert and the cosby kids." that's got to make you feel good where that show is not just entertaining people -- as we said about humanity, it is inspiring and empowering to kids of color throughout the country. on,nd a lot of fun to work too. 1966, ween you left in can look at the calendar and see what was happening. but what is driving you and leo at that moment to want to do animation for people of color? >> it is something that we felt

we had to do. we knew that we could not do it inside the mainstream studios. ,e were very young and naïve but also ambitious. we thought, let's just start our own studio and start telling our own stories. this was a lot more difficult than we realized. though we did have a lot of great people stop by to lend a hand. junior.e oscar brown, smoky robinson helped us out. greg morris before he did mission impossible. we had a lot of people of color coming by even if they could not help us financially. they would give us encouragement to keep going and follow our dream. comes full circle because all these years later, your consulting and pitching in on stuff that you can do. to theseyou saying

young animators today when they want to pick your brain? what i did.em to do just follow your dream. i was fortunate enough to meet with a group of young animators in atlanta, georgia late last year. eager young men and women. talented youngsters that wanted to get into this wonderful business. i say just go for it, you know? just learn the craft. do your homework. you can't just walk in the door if you're not prepared. it is a great business, and i have enjoyed it. it is inspiring to see so many talented young kids come into this business, which is bigger than ever today. it is a huge business. tavis: celebrating the diamond edition on blu-ray of "the jungle book." there it is. you will want to get your copy of it and i have mine. as good as ever. and we are celebrating the

release of "animated life: tips, tricks, and stories." the story of floyd norman who i to have ononored this program. we just scratched the surface on a life well lived, even today. you might want to get this and read more about his life. you are a legend. some folks are a legend in their own mind and you are a legend in your own time. it is nice to see you. that is our show for tonight. thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with david hyde pierce about directing the tony winning play. that is next time, we will see you then.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. >> be more. pannouncer:

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