tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. stokely biographer of carmichael. fire for his support of the black panther party. and later martina mcbride about her new cd called everlasting. we are glad you joined us. those conversations are coming up right now. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> you will be placed under arrest. >> we don't want anybody to move. the time for running has come to an end. folk in the white aressippi the scared --

dead. they have to deal with the mess. stokelyid i just hear n-- areel say the dead dead with martin luther king next him? >> yeah. >> he was arrested 27 times for activities.ghts carmichael's life is finally the subject of a masterful biography. "stokely: a life." dr. joseph, good to have you on this program. i suspect that clip might be a bit arresting. that's some pretty strong language for this person we know as america's peacemaker standing right next to him.

>> yes, and it's a really good example of king and carmichael's relationship with each other. are friends. in a way they mentor each other. they become a sort of ian and yang when we think of the second half of the 1960's in terms of the freedom right struggle. tavis: there was always this of them.etween the two they loved each other. they respected each other. they were friends with each other, but there was this tension between nonviolence on king side and the other way on stokely's side. tell me about that. >> stokely carmichael comes from trinidad. he is part of the nonviolent coordinating committee. he is a young activist who was arrested 27 times, and he started to argue black people need to have radical self

determination. he was initially nonviolent, but that would transform. tavis: why? >> because of his experiences. he sees young people get killed and murdered. one of his dear friend is a white activist named johnson daniel who is murdered in alabama, and that had a he startstive effect. thinking the african-american has to fight back. a sense of how he becomes an advocate in the first place. how does he come to be this advocate we know as stokely carmichael? >> it's really his background. his mother was a huge influence. she's from trinidad. a carpenter, a hard-working black man who is also very religious, and he starts to identify with underdogs, even as a high school student. he goes to one of the best high schools in new york city. the civil rights organizer of the march on washington becomes

one of stokely's mentors. he sees buyers speech, and someone tells him it is higher rustin -- it is rustin, and he says, that's who i want to be. tavis: when you have this kind of commitment in this era, in stokely's era, to say what he is saying, where does that brashness come from? private think it comes from his mother. he has a pan african sense of who he is. mccabeistening to muro -- mira mcaba. all those things come into fruition. somebodye he is, he is -- just who he is, he is somebody with a deep love of poor black people and social justice. tavis: how much of his past versus the path of king -- we

will come to what is so this understood, but how much of the he chosehose -- path versus the path king chose had to do with age? king was dead at 39, yet king was seen as old and be on his time by this lack our generation -- black power generation coming on. how much has to do with his age and era? >> i think a lot has to do with his age. he was 19 the first time he was arrested. he's the young man. by the time he's a revolutionary, he is 24 years old in that clip. he goes to africa and london and cuba. and5, 20 six years old, he's hanging out with the nobel prize winner, dr. king. it's an amazing life. of a youththe leader black.t that's not just

it's white, too. stokely becomes the leading antiwar protester in the united states. in many ways he helps to push dr. king in the direction of being more vocal in his antiwar stance, and stokely takes great delight in that. >> he does. they headline an enormous rally. that's the most important antiwar rally in the late 1960's. dr. king's there. stokely. harry belafonte. no way stokely might upstage dr. king with his eloquent -- teasingds, stokely is dr. king. he says, my activism is one of the reasons you are coming out against the war. tavis: this audience knows i

love dr. king. out thistext coming summer. i regard him as the greatest american this country has produced. i will be the first to say stokely outdid him that day. if you see stokely speech and king speak, it was the one day stokely took the show. it.ely killed >> 30 friendship was connected to that vietnam war road test. -- the deep protest was connected to that vietnam war protest. stokely says he is coming and is going to be in the front row and is leading the standing ovation for dr. king. it's important to note that stokely loves dr. king deeply. anis: this might sound like indictment on this generation, on our generation, and if it comes across that way, maybe it's deliberate.

long at a dinner party not ago, and we were talking about the fact that our generation -- we are notasure up. our parents. we are not our great grandparents. what i am coming to is the point you made. and stokely was doing at 23 24 -- stokely wasn't the only one. there are a whole lot of these young brothers and sisters. the list goes on of all these young people -- king himself was young. malcolm was young. when you look at what we are doing today. i don't want to dam our generation, but compare and contrast. >> i think after what they did during this heroic era -- things have transformed. in a way they did so much to

help the african-american community that vestiges of racism were defeated. not all but major vestiges, and i think the new generation has had a tough time confronting challenges that remain. heroicy they did such work. in the end is the election of barack obama. the middle is dr. king activism. the beginning is rosa parks. that narrative to many of us have bought into. we don't think about all that remains to be done. that: how dangerous is ending with barack obama? >> it's hugely dangerous because dr. king was a huge freedom fighter for justice. they didn't want to just elect a president. they were willing to put their lives of malign and speak truth to power. it wasn't about one man. it was about millions of people being liberated. tavis: again, my words, not

yours, but stokely eventually gives up on america. he leaves. tell me why. >> he leaves for two reasons. he believes in africa. his whole idea of a pan african revolution, but he is also pushed out of the country because of the fbi. the white house requests twice weekly reports of this young brother because he is an antiwar activist. he is pushed out of the country and goes to africa. tavis: his name changed. stokelyw him as carmichael. why the name change? >> those are the names of his two mentors, the president of ghana -- those two mentors, he becomes the embodiment of the pan african revolution. this rather view the

notion of democracy -- this this notion of democracy? >> in a way you fight for radical a mock received. is kwame ture he began to feel it is nothing more than hypocrisy. -- youwhat in your mind can teach us seminars on this one question, but what are the most misunderstood things all these years later about stokely carmichael? >> one is that he is just an angry young man. two, that he is somehow antiwhite. stokely has huge interracial relationships. never against white

people. finally that his call for black power disrupted the civil rights movement. it really didn't disrupt the civil rights movement. it spoke truth to power to what so many people are feeling. also in the international arena. is onestokely carmichael of the most underappreciated, misunderstood, undervalued personalities this country has produced, and thankfully peniel e. joseph is changing that for us. read this text. gone through it. i highly recommend it for a better understanding of this great american. thanks for being on this program. >> great to be here. >> coming up, country singer martina mcbride.

martina mcbride is one of country music's most successful stars with 14 grammy nominations to her credit. she has also been named female vocalist of the year four times by the country music but for the latest martina is hovering new territory, covering soul and classic r&b songs. new territory, covering soul and classic r&b songs. let's listen. >> ♪ because i love you too much, baby ♪ ♪ they say that it's a man's world ♪ tavis: first of all, honor to have you on this program and delighted you decided to do this. tell me why.

>> i was wanted to make a record like this. i always listen to that little creative voice that said, you should do this. i just love this music. have covered everything from "natural " -- things like that. it's just fun. what about the traditional soul music most resonates with you? >> for me it's about the emotion. i realize these songs are so in the moment. it's conversational. i'm expressing my feelings. i think in a way that's a similar thing to country music. lyrics have so much emotion. tavis: i'm glad you said that. there are a lot of things i like

about r&b. the group gets me going. country is the best lyric stuff around. part of what i like is the lyrical content. >> it's about real life. you decide what to put on here? you picked some good stuff. you have 12 tracks. you must have started with 25 zero. >> we look for songs for six or seven months. i worked with a great anr girl sho would send me list and list of songs. sometimes i would say, i don't want to do that song, but it reminds me of another song. a lot of it was sifting through the treasure trove of this music. we came to nashville, and sang through about 20 or 25 songs. there were certain ones that were really natural and certain ones that weren't.

we went with the ones that felt natural. tavis: good bet. go with the ones that felt natural. when you say it felt natural, what do you mean by that? a song comes out already sounding like a record. it fits your tone. the melody, the phrasing feels really natural. tavis: you go through a bunch of tracks. you pick the one that feels natural. at the end you look at what you have, and when you look at what you did, what thread do you see running through it? >> it's interesting. there are a couple of songs about trust and lack of trust. we covered "if you don't know me minds."and "suspicious i have been married, and that's not an issue we deal with. that was on a couple of songs.

we did "to know him is to love a sweetich is such song. i don't know if there is a theme. it deals with different emotions. tavis: when you are in front of your audience and you throw in an r&b song, you throw in a full therethere -- a full song how doesng there, the audience respond? >> it's great. songs everybody knows. that's the thing about this music. think, my fans are going to love this music. it's still me singing the songs. reallyly it feels authentic, and i hope they like it. particularhere a reason now seems to be the right time? why the timeason

is right for you to put a project like this out? >> not really. there is an artistic decision. sometimes you have to listen to your instincts. a few years ago was a "timeless," which collection of standards. this isn't really a continuation of that, but it's the same idea with a different type of music. tavis: is this where you hoped you would be two decades in, or did you not give thought to where you would take this thing? ways my career has exceeded expectations. i think when you get into this business, i always had a rule of thumb that you can have 10 great years. that's really amazing. it is. having done this for twice that long, i am very blessed.

tavis: what's your sense of the crop of country talent that is out there today? >> it's an interesting time in country music right now for females. it seems there are not a lot of females on country radio right now, but i think that is cyclical. it will come back around. tavis: that was my follow-up. i wanted to ask what you felt about the whole crop to begin with and specifically women and that it seemsect like some of the women are disappearing, and we don't know why that is. >> i don't know why that is. there are some really great records. casey musgrave just won the grammy for her album. ashley monroe made a great country record. i think there is a trend that is

more about trucks and -- [laughter] a lot of male oriented subject matter that we have a hard time don'tales finding -- i know what i would do with that kind of trend. i couldn't find music like that. tavis: that raises another question. if there is a male oriented a femaleyric, is there oriented country lyric, or is it supposed to just be about life? >> i think it's supposed to just be about life. i have always recorded songs about me and i am going to say toething somebody is going own. i want people to say, that's my song. i have never really followed a trend. choice that you

pick songs you think people are going to resonate with, has the kind of stuff you do change to over 20 years? you live life. you have different experiences. different things resonate with you. can you see that when you look over your own discography, the choices you make now? >> i don't think it has changed a lot. at certain times there are songs -- i recorded a song called "in my daughter's eyes." i have three daughters. had i not had a daughter i don't think i could understand that song. i recorded that when my girls were little. i think as time goes by you do find songs that you can relate to better because you have had those experiences or because you are older. tavis: does having three daughters change the way you view your work and your career

and your calling? >> it doesn't. children andg especially daughters does change the way you view the world. a safer,e world to be better, more joyful place for them than it is sometimes, but i don't know that it affects my music, my work really. the other question is whether or not you think music can still have the same kind of impact on our lives the way it used to. it's a wonderful thing to entertain us, but there have been strong times in our history when music -- whether you are talking dylan -- where music actually made a difference. do you think music still has the power to do that these days? >> i do. the way we consume music is different. areink our attention spans getting shorter. i notice with my daughters,

rarely do they listen to an entire song. to awill be like, listen song, and it will be half of it, and they will switch to a different song, and i am like, why don't you listen to the whole song? >> does that scare you as an artist? >> yes, i don't think anyone listens to the whole song. is it is so powerful. lyrics in songs, it's emotional and powerful, and i think it taps into something no other art form can. her, are youto touring just for this project or weaving some of this into your playlist? >> them excited about this playlist because i am going to bring out a horn section, background vocals. we are going to maybe do some moves. tavis: i want to see that. >> you have to teach me some moves. tavis: you don't want to see that, but you may see me on the

front row checking out your moves. i am glad you said horns. you cannot do so without horns. horns don't get the respect they deserve. what is earth wind and fire without horns? chicago. i love the horns. you got to do it. the new project i'm martina mcbride is called "everlasting." you will want to add this to your collection. have a great to her. good to have you on. that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching. as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with comedian tim conway. that's next time. we will see you then.

♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. pbs.

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