tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. first a conversation with robert bright come a former labor secretary under president clinton. we will talk about the state of the country's economy, fed chair janet yellen just heard her first press conference. we will get an assessment from reich what we can expect in the coming weeks and months. then we will turn to a conversation with benmont tench, one of music's great session men who has backed up by billion, johnny cash and was a member of the tom petty and the heartbreakers band. he has finally released his first cd, titled "you should be so lucky." those conversations coming up right now.

contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ago, janetw days yellen held her first press conference telling us how she plans to guide the nation's fiscal future. joining us now for an assessment is former labor secretary robert

reich who is now a professor of public policy at uc berkeley and author of "aftershock." , good to haveh you back on this program. what did you make of janet yellen's first press conference? what did you make of the aftershocks that hit wall street? >> there is not that much that the fed can do to stimulate the economy. the fed under ben bernanke has done a great deal, just about all he can do to bring long-term interest rates down, keep short-term interest rates down. janet yellen delivered the news that wall street was afraid of hearing. ,ventually, that bolstering keeping interest rates down, cannot continue infinitely. she is going to allow interest rates to rise. that is what ben bernanke was doing at the end of his tenure. she is going to continue the

same policies. wall street got nervous because of -- of course if interest rates are allowed to rise, that means that bonds become more attractive. that in turn means that stocks become less attractive. that is what wall street has been living off of. the fumes, or you might change the metaphor and say the steroids, that come from artificially keeping interest rates down. tavis: is the economy right now in a position -- is our condition good enough at the moment to see interest rates go up? >> that is the very central question we are facing right now. think that although the official indicators, the stock market and economic growth and all the things we normally look at, look like they are improving, there is another a economy that affects most people in this country.

if you are middle class, lower middle class or poor, your take-home pay is going down. your jobs are not there. the actual ratio of people who are working age who are in the workforce is now at a 35-year low. in effect, we have two economies. the official economy and the economy that most americans live in. that second economy is not in much of a recovery. tavis: the fed as you know sets and on implement threshold of 6.5% as the benchmark for whether it considers raising these rates. to your point about those two americas, those two economies, there are many of us who don't believe that the number is what they tell us the number is. so many americans have given up looking for work. how arbitrary, realistic, reliable is the benchmark it that the fed has set?

>> it is very unreliable if you are concerned with getting anywhere near full employment. janet yellen is concerned about employment. the fed has two mandates. one is price stability, avoiding inflation and recession. to get as many americans working as possible. janet yellen is very concerned about the second mandate. you are right, the official unemployment data is a very crude and misleading gauge of how many people are actually working. all of the burden is on the american workforce. tavis: let me go back to where you started this conversation, by sharing with us that as you see it there is only the fed -- only so much the fed can do. i will work my way into your wonderful work in just a second. there are folks on the right and

we start to hear their voices more now as we head to the , we areelections hearing more from persons on the right who think that we ought to just do away with the fed. this is not a new idea. give me some sense of where you come down in that argument and what you make of this position that the fed is basically a worthless institution. >> that is silly. you have to have some way of controlling the money supply. by controlling the money supply, you are in a position to help the economy along. basically there are two bank controlling instruments that we use in this country. one is fiscal policy, taxing and spending. the other is monetary policy, controlling the money supply. some of the people who want to do away with the fed want to use gold or silver or in years past, there have been all kinds of ideal versions of controlling the money supply. nothing works very well.

what we know in most economies, when an economy slows down, you want to be able to actually reduce interest rates. you want to be able to increase the money supply. you also want to be able to spend more and reduce taxes. those are the ways that government can help an economy that temporarily needs a lift. that is what the fed has tried to do. with a fair degree of success. as we have been talking about, not nearly successful enough. we also need fiscal policy. we need more spending on infrastructure, education. we need to not worry right now about the deficit. the deficit is way down as a proportion to the gdp. tavis: why is that conversation continuing to churn in washington? the obama administration has been quite frankly even too

sensitive to that argument. why does that argument continue to churn? because it iss easy to convince the public that a national budget is just like their own home budget. if the national budget goes to much into deficit, things are going to be a huge problem. the reason so many people are struggling in this economy, so this argument goes, is that we have too large a federal budget. the analogy doesn't make any sense. federal budgeta has a lot to do with a public investment in roads and bridges and education. if you don't make those investments, not only do you cause a lot of people not to get jobs, but you are also not allowing the economy to grow in the future. those are investments in the future economy. we know the deficit spending is not a sin.

during the second world war, we went into much deeper deficit than we ever have since. but we grew our way out of that deficit. the issue is the ratio of the deficit or debt to the total national economy. all of these austerity people and exit scolds who said you have to get the deficit down, don't understand that by reducing the deficit you are reducing the demand for goods and services in the economy. and threatening economic growth. tavis: since i last talked to you, the president of the united states gave a major speech about income inequality. lbj's now 50 years after war on poverty. on huffingtons post are consistently required reading for me and my staff. give us some sense of how you are reading this moment that we are in and whether or not the momentum of this moment can lead to a movement on the issue of

poverty and income inequality. >> i think it has. we still have 15% of americans who are in poverty. of fivee than one out of our nation's children, are in poverty. to those people who say that means the war on poverty didn't work, if we did not have the social programs we do have right now, the safety net, we would have 30% of our people in poverty. it has worked to that extent. to eliminatet try poverty with safety nets. we have got to create jobs. we have got to expand middle-class opportunities. we have got to restore upward mobility in this country. education, investing in early childhood education, affordable college education. we are the only rich nation in the world that has less lower

per-pupil expenditures in core areas of this country than we have in wealthy school districts. tavis: i want to close our conversation by getting your thoughts on something that is terribly important to me. this year, we celebrate 50 years after the war on poverty. we will also commemorate 50 years since the murder of those three civil rights workers in my ,irth state of mississippi goodman and cheney. for those who don't know all there is to know about your back story, when you were a child, you were bullied a lot. i will let you explain why. one of your protectors was a guy who endshael schwerner up being one of these three civil rights workers killed, murdered in philadelphia, mississippi.

how were you and michael schwerner friends? what do you make of your friend now, 50 years after his death? this is a little hard to talk about. i was always very short for my age. when i was a little boy, he was even shorter. i looked to a handful of older boys who were very kind and they were my protectors from the belize. i was bullied a lot. it happens. kids are bullied. if they are very short, they tend to be believed even more. mickey schwerner, he was older than me. mickey was one of the people i looked to to help me along. he was a protector. in the summer of 1964, my protector from the belize -- the bullies was, along with cheney and goodman, trying to register

voters in mississippi. they were brutally murdered. they were tortured and murdered by the real bullies. ofn i heard about the murder my protector who had protected me from my childhood ullie -- bullies, it changed my life. it goes back to what we were talking about a little while ago. there are so many people in this country who are vulnerable and powerless. ,hey are not just for -- poor they are middle class, lower middle class, what we used to call working class. some of them really are hopeless and they have lost hope. they feel like they don't have anybody to protect them. they don't feel that there is any way out.

they are living from paycheck to paycheck or they don't have a job. even though the economy is improving, they really do feel bullied and humiliated. i suppose that is the connection. can tell that was difficult for you and i want to thank you for taking the question. it is always amazing to me how these things stay with us. mr. secretary, i thank you again for taking my question about the death of schwerner, goodman and cheney 50 years later. reich, there is a dvd out , a companion to the text which you can find on itunes, ondemand and netflix. it is called "inequality for all." i think it will be looked at years from now as classic. thank you for your insights.

the two have you back on this program. coming up, musician benmont tench of tom petty and the heartbreakers out with his own cd, his first ever. stay with us. more: benmont tench has than 40 years of recording to his credit, playing on records for johnny cash, u2, bob dylan and is a member of tom petty and the heartbreakers. after all those years, he finally has come out with his own cd. it is called "you should be so lucky." it features some of his friends, people like ringo starr. let's take a look at a cut from "you should be so lucky." ♪

sky ♪nica looked at the ♪ turn her back to the moon as it started to rise ♪ ♪ she said not every word in this world is a lie ♪ the wind is blowing cold on the waterfront tonight ♪ tavis: benmont tench, good to have you on this program. we have had tom petty on the program before but our first time having you here. what took so long? not for being on the show, for the album. >> i didn't see a reason to make one. it seemed like everybody was making records. eventually i had enough songs. i think it is kind of intimation of mortality.

you think, if i don't do something with the songs, they will be gone when i am gone. i thought they deserved to have a chance. tavis: you said something fascinating, this notion of finally getting to a place where you felt secure enough in the songs after all the years you have been doing this. i would think the last thing you would suffer from is insecurity. >> i started sitting in with tom patty and mike campbell when i was about 17. he was already writing great songs. i have been around top-notch songwriter since i was a teenager. when i started doing sessions i got to work with people like bob dylan and willie nelson. it can be a little bit daunting. i started to get good enough feedback on the songs and when, i believe in the songs. tavis: speaking of tom petty, you were just a 17-year-old kid, there is a great story of what

mr. petty had to do to convince your father to let you hang out with him. do you want to tell the story? >> i quit college and neglected to tell my dad. [laughter] man, greata good man. he was a judge. he was not mean-spirited in the lease, but he was like, be honest. that i finally found out hadn't gone back to school, i was just working, he busted me on it. he said, if you are not going to school, then you don't stay at the house when you aren't in school. go find your own place to stay. tom talked to him, convinced him that we had a shot, that it was worth my doing. also, probably out of great fear that if i didn't stay at my parents house i would crash on his couch. tavis: how long did your dad lived after that?

>> my father only passed away about 10 years ago. if even. tavis: he saw a whole lot of this. -- you sayoncerned you're going to go to california from florida and the asexual -- and be a successful musician. it is a long shot. i understand his concern. tavis: how did he come around? years later when you are selling records like crazy? >> he was really proud. he knew that i loved music. they just didn't think i would try to make it a career. they thought i would be a painter or are teacher or something like that. tavis: so he made peace with tom petty. >> the whole ban was really close with my folks. we rehearsed in my parents' living room. tavis: there are 12 tracks on here. 10 original tracks, new pieces

of material. two covers. both of the covers happened to the dylan. everybody knows your work. when i say the name, bob dylan, and the fact that you only have two tracks covert and both of them are dylan, what is it about bob dylan? >> that is a hard one to pin down. far.es back so when we would rehearse, sometimes we would just be messing around between songs and play a ballad from the 1600s or 1700s. he knows so much about music. he also knows a lot about rhythm. it is not just the rhythm of his words. it is the rhythm of his guitar playing, the grooves he chooses for his songs. he has the brilliant imagery but he is a direct line back to the kind of guitar playing, the rhythm that you hear on old

records by somebody like robert johnson or hank williams. there is a certain kind of rhythm that used to get played before the machine age. that.es back to it is very primal and heart-centered. that as much as his lyric gift, his melodic gift. tavis: i was about to ask you what you make of his songwriting ability. >> i think that with bob dylan around, we are living in an era where we have widman presenting new work. we have dickens presenting new work. we have gates and shakespeare presenting new work. it is that level. there is none higher. it is not hype. he is the real thing. tavis: you would know.

>> playing with bob, we were his band. the heartbreakers were his band for a couple of hours in the 1980's. how much we learned and how much we grew from playing with and was astounding. , so youru have to be modesty aside for a second, you and the guys have to be really pleased with your own contribution. you are hall of fame yourself. >> that is kind of you to say. i am not being false. the contributions that we have us asthe songs -- i see more of continuing a certain kind of music than trying to break down. retro kind conscious of thing that the heartbreakers do. this is just my take on it. there is a certain thing that

resonates with the whole band, a certain kind of songwriting and a certain group. somebody has got to play that. somebody has got to play it or it is going to go away. is good, the songwriting, the arranging, the groove, it is something we pay a lot of attention to. tavis: now that you have done a solo project, did you enjoy it enough to consider doing it again? >> it was a wonderful experience. i would like to do it again. i don't know if i can get lightning to strike again in the way that it was a joyous experience. we had 11 days to do the thing. my dear friend produced it. it was rescored it -- it was recorded old school to tape. it was basically like a house party but we were serious about making music. tavis: you can always do another house party. ain't over.

my time is up with you. i have been hearing a rumor that you got -- you and tom petty are doing another project. is that true? >> we have got it done, i believe. i believe that it is done. i believe the opera singer has sung. mike there be a tour behind this? >> i hope so. i have my fingers crossed on that. that is what i love doing, going out and playing. tavis: i am glad to hear that. that it is -- done. we all are waiting for that. in the meantime, groove to this. it is benmont tench's first solo project all these years later, "you should be so lucky."

we should be so lucky as to have you as a guest on our program. good to have you here. that is our show for tonight. thanks for watching and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with errol morris and grammy nominated singer-songwriter ledisi. that is next time. we will see you then.

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