tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with drummer and composer stewart copeland. he will always be defined and in part remembered by his time with the police and inducted into the rock 'n roll hall of fame. he is in a comp list movie composer having written scores for wall street and francis ford coppola's rumble fish. and the 1925 silent version of - ben hur. stewart copeland, coming up, right now.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. tavis: stewart copeland has been named by rolling stone as one of the most influential drummers of all of rock music history. for his time at the police, those days earned him six grammy awards and saw him inducted into the rock 'n roll hall of fame. he has written scores for movies like wall street and has performed his own work with

orchestras around the globe. he will perform is own composition. let's start with a look at a clip. ♪ ♪ why ben hur? >> it came to me years ago. . got a call the german impresario was building a show. they were doing the chariot race, the whole thing.

europe anded across the hundreds of underpaid ukrainian experts as roman soldiers on horseback. i wrote the music. the show playing in europe. crisis,of the financial and a crucial moment, i had to pay some bills. i own the copyright of the music. all the recordings that i made. i was looking to play concert with this stuff. i was thinking of some pictures. movie that is925 40 years before the charlton heston film. like and white, silent, and huge. had two or 300 ukrainians

running around. they have thousands of extras. extras because they are wearing their roman armor. the ships really did catch fire. is fact that it's silent catnip for a composer. all that absence of anything means that i can -- so i get to play my drums. tavis: the purity and the sanctity of a silent film has been bastardized now by your score i? >> the film was made with the intention of having music playing. he would send out a chart so the

local organist could come up with something. they did not think that way. and in the 60's, a score was written by colin davis for a video release of the film. gave melast time, they this 80-year-old celluloid. the last time it had been seen was when they cut a video from it. that is when they added the score long after the director had gone. that was a bastardization right there. it began with the concert and the film as a backdrop. i began to drink the kool-aid. film will be moving forward on the stage. this question is going to

sound simple but i bet your answer will be more deep and philosophical. when you start writing music for -- set yourall done modesty aside. what jumps out at you from the screen that you didn't see before you put music to it? i don't think we really appreciate what music does or what a score does when we watch a film. have been on panels were we show a scene in a movie with a funny car chase. it has an entirely different meaning.

i have the kind of imagine that and write a piece of music with that scene. and at the end of the day, when i discovered the film, i found that the jealousy thing between judah and masala, i have the jealousy thing. the love interest. i have essar steam. theme.er's all these pieces of music i had. that is what jumped out at me.

it is a long time before us saw the charlton heston one. the book on which that book was faced -- based was called "a tale of the quest." it is the title of this 1925 movie. of the moviespect -- i am a left coast libertine. a sinner. but even my crocodile heart is moved by the power of the message of jesus christ in this thing. a question but not that much of a believer. for people, it will feel very strong. i expected to chariot race to rock and the pirates to be amazing.

i expected this powerful and liberating spiritual message. tavis: do you know why they dropped the subtitle and just called it ben-hur? why did you want the need to bring it back for your production? >> i don't know why they dropped it. just watching the movie, the full title fits. people don't allow other people to be who they are and believe what they believe. i want to not judge people and take a lesson i have learned and offer something to those people for whom the film was made. , think for nonreligious people

there is a film called noah where a lot of people are upset that atheists may that film. they don't mention god, they mention the creator. they use people's own religious themlogy and text back at possibly and it is respectful way. and on both sides of the political divide, we are guilty of judging each other and not accepting each other. to show people i may be from california but i love you all. i think this film, i think you'll like this movie. ben hur: a tale of the christ years.roadway hit for 25

this is a story with legs. 25 years on broadway and the biggest silent film ever made. then the biggest color film ever made. this was a story that has legs. i'm glad you raised this issue of religious tolerance or religious intolerance. we may need to do a show about this because it think this issue -- i thought we put this to bed in our society. see this issue rising up again. i was reading a story about a major ceo in silicon valley that just got pushed out a cousin he $1000 to a proposition -- >> even if we are on the right side of an issue, we are still just folks. >> i was struck by andrew sullivan's piece, a prominent

condemning the movement, forcing people out for their own beliefs. there are people on both sides of this but the conversation about religious intolerance is once again front and center. >> i think coexisting is what this country is all about. tolerating people which is why we insist on freedom of speech and freedom of religion. contrary to the 10 commandments, you can worship any idle you want. -- idol you want. sometimes the points of view get heated on both sides. the civil rights movement, there was an honest cause and some within the movement that overstated the case and gave ammunition to the other side. i think the case of mozilla and the guy that was forced out, i

think some among them may have overstated the case and given a poster child to their intellectual opposition if you like. that said, let me come back to your career. we know about your work with the police,but after the why composing? why did that tickle your fancy? it came and got me. just like drumming. i was going to be in media and a publishing mogul but i liked playing the drums. it just came and got me. i tried to get an honest job. composition when first my eyes blinked open, a river of music. they got me into lessons right away.

when i went through my life in a band, i didn't use any of the formal music education that i had. d chords with sting and f sharp minor. i would do crossword puzzles while they were arguing out the harmonics. when that went away, i have to put music on a page because i need an orchestra to play. or some guy that will walk in and leave two hours later. how do i get him to play exactly? it needs to group and be kind of sexy here. and alacrity with the written note. and there came composing ever larger ensembles. is this word, classical music. i don't know how it applies to

me but it is orchestral. a 70 piece orchestra is a mighty instrument capable of huge power and emotional versatility. and although great works have mozart, --n, bock, bach, mozart, stravinsky. coolw that there are more things that 70 guys can do to rock the joint. , a greatjust said conductor and composer, you guys sound eerily similar. what you said sounded like a repetition of what he said. >> he was here and he said it first? i wish you had had me on the week before it. tavis: great minds think alike but as soon as you said it, it took me back to that

conversation. he wants to do away with the word classical. and even though he has conducted some of the most wonderful and ,rilliantly written pieces ever his thing is that we have to compositions. there is new stuff we can do that doesn't have to be bach, beethoven, brahms, whatever . tavis: there are things that come from -- >> there are things that come from rock and roll. american music has these elements i was steeped in. to write orchestral music that didn't have or doesn't utilize all this language and the voodoo

to get them moving and rocking. why 70 guysreason can't get the same effect as three guys with a lot of amplifiers. influences, itk influences your orchestral writing? >> i have used what i have learned. i know what works with an audience. and they are alone at their piano and thinking of a very different kind of audience. a very different thing. they are very beautiful and i hope to go to that place where they create. and thatom that place

is what i want to engender. tavis: tell me about this project out of virginia. >> i got two drum sets. a regular drum set and behind that i have bells and a lot of percussion stuff. overhead is this giant movie. the virginia hearts -- arts festival on the 19. they commissioned the piece and all props to them. a big shout out to those guys that put this piece on the map. it goes on from there. tavis: if you are in or near virginia, you can get a ticket to see the orchestra do this ben-hur, tale of the christ. ch of usge -- a bun

are huge police fans. 86 --ally broke up in >> you are showing your age. tavis: that, too. what do you think about this distance in the rearview mirror? >> i wish i had been nicer. the bounty that came from that eight years in the pressure cooker is resounding 40 years later. tavis: what do you mean by you wish you had been nicer? >> you get confused. when you have been struggling, the light rushes in, and you are there, everybody wants to hear your voice and everybody loves you and surrounds you with weird -- you see people shape shifting in front of you. behaving in ways they don't behave amongst each other. i probably don't even need to

tell you that it's weird. at that level and at that age, suddenly, it gives you a sense of vertigo. his celebrity saying i wish i hadn't done that or said that, if i had practiced some humility then -- tavis: i have often struggled in my own life with how you navigate your word with that kind of angst behind you. it's not like you can go back and relive those moments. tell me more about that. the kind of life you want to live, how do you pay it forward?

>> that in turn that nobody knows their name, they will be president of warner bros.. they will still be here 20 years from now. the stuff they learned in your studio today, they will take with them. somebody has no account right now, it will be 40 years. time does pass and these people are going to move on. and the people you abuse on the way up, you will beat up on the way down. tavis: mom, plug your years. >> i will tell you what he said later. tavis: quincy jones told me to be careful. the toes you step on today may be connected to the behind you have to kiss tomorrow.

>> that is absolutely right. tavis: i try to always remember that. what it's all about. that in turn, you're going to be great. even though you are 28 or 31 and on top of the world, 30 years hopefully are going to go by and when you get to 30 years out, 40 years out, it will be a different world. you are going to get humbled. i would like to tell the youngsters, you will field better later if you start being kind. it feels awfully neurotic because you're suggesting that we grow in grace and growing humility as we also grow in stature. >> i take it all back. you young football and movie star, love it and live it.

it you will be forgiven and you can completely dump on your friends. they will forgive you and you will learn that you can get away with stuff that you shouldn't get away with. eventually, you will learn that it might not be the day after your career ends or the day after you release a single that doesn't chart, you do a tour and it doesn't sell out, you probably won't be humbled the next day but five years will go by, 10 years, it will come to you. blow it now, blow it early, blowing hard. tavis: it's also more acute for celebrities because they get away with more stuff than the average guy does anyway. it is impossible not to be a jerk at some level. >> it's sort of like being a little old lady. people open doors for you. they pick up your tab. i'm a 28-year-old monster.

open that door for me. the music of the police era, you've got to love the music. >> i do. i am partial to both those guys. i know something exciting is going to happen. sting picks up any instrument and you know something beautiful is going to start happening. tavis: and you're happy with the state of your life, vis-à-vis the compositions? >> rock music is fun. they are writing multi-textural nuances. all of that texture and all of

that subtlety and all of that nuance is what you pick up over the years. tavis: stewart copeland will be at the virginia arts festival. easter weekend. a bunch of strings. for his production of ben hur: a tale of the christ. if you can get in, i wish i were there. it here in southern california so we can see it. good to have you on. tonight.ur show for as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with one of the countries greatest documentarians, ken burns. that is next time, we will see you then.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> be more. >> be more. pbs.

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