tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight a conversation with nas on the anniversary of his album, "illmatic." of ais also the subject new documentary which had its debut at the tribeca film festival. we are glad you joined us. a conversation with nas coming up right now. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. -- >> for more information on -- tavis: nas was just 20 when he put everything into a groundbreaking project called "illmatic." it had critics searching for superlatives. he described his experience growing up in new york. the cd has been released in an

anniversary. a documentary just premiered at the tribeca film festival. we have a look at the cut from "illmatic" called "halftime." ♪ another dose and you might be dead into thing going to change i'm a performer i was born to game ♪ why did you do it it's halftime ♪ tavis: i want to start by asking what it feels like to be relevant in this game 20 years later. it. i didn'tsk for think about it. 20 years ago i didn't think about this happening. it crept up on me. it's crazy.

i'm happy. i merely did. chelating ---- i'm elated. i'm enjoying it. tavis: you know better than i do this business changes at the speed of light. to have done something 20 years ago that is still relevant, that people still are pumping, that's a big deal, particularly in the genre you are in. i literally went online to talk about the folks who have come and gone in this game over 20 years. you were there so you know. there are a lot of folks who came and went.

>> i have been lucky in a lot of ways. in rap years i am up there. tavis: i think wrap years are worse than dogs. >> dogs live longer than rappers. it's just bad. i have been lucky. i just kind of stay out of the way. that's my whole thing. rapper.ou said iery time i think of you think of whether or not it's stillive that you're being called around for 20 years later, when i know what you really see yourself as is a musician who does wrap, but i assume after 20 years you have gotten comfortable with the title rapper. >> what are you going to do? is it is what it is. i don't mind that. i like the term him see -- mc.

nobody uses that term. tavis: why is that? >> mc is associated with the old school whereas rap groups used to have not just a solo artist but a group because you had a dj . and that wasc, the dj. that has changed. we are solo artist. everyone has a name. c name when i was trying to be a young writer. that eve alt into something else. -- that evolved into something else -- rapper. rapper needs to go. tavis: when you look back on "illmatic" what do you think specifically of the lyrical content? >> it was bold. it was revealing.

it was honesty. it was introspective. pictureeally painting a of everything i have seen. everything that was around me. loved at the time. i make references to things that are no longer in style. i say words like phat. today you say something different like that is a nice suit or a smooth suit. i use old school terms. it's cool because it is cemented in that term. tavis: how do you feel when you hear this 20 years later about the conditions you were living versus those same who weres young folk your age then have to navigate every day in 2014? >> good and bad.

the bad is because those situations are still happening now. the good thing is what has musicians andven rappers to become business people, and that way you open doors. with: including yourself shoes and everything. >> yes, so those kids see me open a sneaker store in vegas, and they might want to inspired to do something bigger and better. he might want to design their own shoes. they know it's possible now. back then that wasn't happening. when that record drop a lot of things weren't happening. there is more hope when they see us. we see more doors open that we saw back then. tavis: what's the upside and what's the downside -- the good being sof hip-hop

mainstream now? even if you don't think hip-hop gone mainstream, i could debate that all night. it has been accepted by the mainstream. those are necessarily the same thing. what do you make 20 years later of the fact that hip-hop is so accepted by the mainstream? >> anything that's really good everybody wants to put their hands on it. everything happens that makes it global and people forget the roots of it, and people forget why they care about it, and it and turned -- torn apart turned so commercial that you don't even know what the essence of this art form is about. the thing about that is no matter what is going on in the mainstream world, i am almost the guy who tries to tell the

never focus on mainstream. never focus on the pop world. do what you do, and that world will come to you. i don't even know what that is out there. it's big, it's glittering. it looks like everything, but if you don't focus on that and you just focus on what you are doing, you stay in control of the art form. the rewards are better anyway. with the mainstream you have a successful acts that become household names overnight. the guys who stick to their guns may not become household names overnight. within a great circle of great people who admire great work, you will have their respect. mainstream, it is what it is. you got to continue doing what you are doing. tavis: i guess the question is

whether or not hip-hop music as an art form can be mainstream and still have the truth at the epicenter. >> yes, it can. the he did it. -- biggie did it. jay-z did it, i have done it. run dmc has done it. after run dmc's generation i think they got caught there. they invented it. they invented getting this wide audience, and we brought it back to the street. the outside world came to us anyway. we didn't have to put guitars in it. we didn't have to do anything to cross over. they crossed over to us, with our generation. thes: what do you make of fact you have survived an industry that has at times had ?ts own level of violence

in part because you chose to stay out of the way, or did you mean something else? >> you got it. it's the same way in the streets if you feel like you are on something that is going to be big and there are a lot of distractions, a lot of people not going to want to see you getting there, you have to navigate yourselves around that. the same rules apply to rap music. had to live by those same rules. we weren't used to having bodyguards. having realed to bodyguards. i don't know if he had real bodyguards. he was out there. it could have been me. around witht moving

unnecessary stuff, when you know there is a higher goal in your life there should not be -- there should be nothing that holds you back. you have to be right on your thing. you cannot try to chill with this crowd for a little while because this ground might be mixed in something you don't want to be mixed up with. stay on your course. that's the only way. take the money and run was a phrase made by a wise cowboy. somebody knew something. tavis: take the money and run. since you have stayed on your grind for these two decades since nomadic first came out, think of his gift 20 years later? the goal is to get better. we want to stay focused. we want to improve. we want to keep advancing. when you hear your stuff -- "illmatic" is awfully good. there are two ways of looking at

it. you started at the top, and you could have gone rate to the bottom. everybody is like thomas how could he top this? how coulddy is like, you top this? how do you think you have done over 20 years? >> i have done ok. i did ok. failure is not an option. i always felt like i am a man who doesn't have regrets. i don't live with excuses. i can't take excuses. i have to live with that. i approach my music that way. we have a lot to say. there are so many words in each song and each verse. we have a lot to get out there. we were very -- we were

revealing a lot about ourselves and who we are. i got to live by that word. if it doesn't work i got to bow out. there will be no excuses. that's how i lifted. artistically do you think you are better than you were 20 years ago? >> i don't know. sometimes i think about what i wanted to do if i wasn't bombarded with this ms. of the music business. -- with the business of the music business. there are a lot of things i didn't get the chance to do. today i figured out some things. i could see myself doing some good rings, moving forward. . was cool back then i might be better. your selfn you hear in the studio or on stage, your stylings, your writing, do you

think you are better now than 20 years ago? >> what are you getting at? what are you trying to say? tavis: i am trying to get your own assessment because this is such an iconic piece of work. if this had been -- let me put it another way. if this had been or turns out to be --"illmatic" -- if this turns out to be your magnum opus, are you ok with it? >> yes, i am. 100%. approached it i approached it trying to be the best. i was really young, but i had a lot to stay -- a lot to say. i knew what i wanted to do. i'm proud of it. i'm lucky because i can hear imperfections but that's also what makes it a cool record. tavis: you can hear it? i can hear any of it.

>> i talk to actors, and some of them haven't seen their movies because of that. they know it was bad to them, but to us it was amazing. oscar award-winning types of her formants is. i could hear it. -- oscar-winning types of performances. tavis: i'm not going to ask you. i don't want to know. you put the re-release out. >> what we did is we found the villain."d "i'm a i must have been about 15 euros when we went in the studio to do that. we were hustling to get into the studio. -- i must have been about 15 years old when we went into the studio to do that. i was happy when the label found that song. the rest of them are remixes that came out back then.

-- 90'something remixes sounding remixes. speaking of the producers, and this is kind of an inside the game -- i have an appreciation for it. you were early on putting three or four big reducers on one project. back in the day most people were hustling with just them and their crew when they do the whole thing top to bottom. >> i knew it was my time. i think a lot of us know when it was our time. if you worked on it long enough you know when it is ready. i felt like it was ready. it would be a shame -- i saw so many people make the wrong move

s. i needed my stuff to have the right music. i knew all those guys that could help me but the record together. tavis: that's big stuff. you mentioned movies. i want to come to your documentary. there is a line in your movie. do when your life exceed your dreams? for years i wrestled with that question. i finally figured out for myself, you ain't got one choice. you've got to figure something else out. to introduce a film about your .ife how do you process that? how does that feel? >> i was hitting everybody.

robert deniro just said my name. atert deniro said "illmatic" tribeca film festival. tavis: opening night. >> it was surreal. i watched the godfather. godfather to is my favorite movie. my brother said, tonight the godfather is watching you. i said, i am done. i have done it all just because robert deniro said "illmatic." i'm good. i don't have to do nothing else again. first of all, there are focused may be hearing this for the first time. name, how did that become the name of this project? >> it was beyond me. and i hear an older

guys say, that's "illmatic." he was the big dude on the block. the whole neighborhood knew him. inspired and now bum. inspired anum -- album. that was the language. become really good at it in the age of hip-hop of just siphoning off the language. i am looking up on cnn. it could be the most bland news network, and i hear the anchor or a voiceover specialist during a commercial. it cracks me up that the stuff itsome up with just find way into the most interesting

mainstream places all these years later. >> we are black, and we still hear words like what does that mean? everyday i hear a new word. i am out of touch. you don't know what this means? and we black? it throws us sometimes. young people have got this thing. and everybody's using the language, and that's good because it's tying is altogether a little closer. this: i know you are weekend heading to vegas to open another one of your entrepreneur enterprises. i'm going to put you on the spot. tell me all the stuff you've got .ight now entrepreneurially you've got sneakers. break me off. go ahead. >> sneakers store. that's the fun thing. tavis: you can make money and have fun.

it's better that way as a matter of fact. >> the sneaker store is something we are doing now. i'm a venture capitalist now. this is the first time i have been in television. tech.nvested in a lot of .'m getting into producing tv i'm working that out right there a little bit at a time. i don't want to say too much, but i'm really happy about everything i'm into. i'm learning a lot. i'm in a whole new world. >> i think if we need a producer on this show he might want to pump money into this project. didn't you say that? >> i definitely said that. that would be an honor. tavis: i've got a minute to go. i could talk to you for hours.

all my brothers called me and said, have you heard the new nas track? he mentioned your name. >> i try to talk about things and people that matter. >> in pr, pbs, none of that meant anything to my brothers until my name was in a nas track. >> thank you. tavis: that's a big deal. i assume you are grateful at this point. >> i am grateful. i am excited about what's next. i was excited to record. listening to it took me back. it reminded me what my plan was. it made me look at everything going on since then.

it showed me where i was at. i am grateful. for those of us who love music, this has to be in your collection. if you don't have this your collection is missing something. there is some stuff you have not heard. i highly recommend it. if i come to vegas i am going to stop by your sneaker store. >> on the house. glad to have you on. for now. as always, keep the faith. >> there are a lot of stars. i can think of no more deserving stars than tavis smiley. i saw a lot of people come

through. used thatdy who has position to improve people's lives. it's not so much what we do in front of the camera. it's who we are behind the camera. i couldn't be more proud and excited to go on hollywood boulevard and looked down probably and say that is our tavis. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a for a conversation with barbara ehrenreich. that's next time. we will see you then.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. daniel mansergh:

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