tavis: i am tavis smiley. tonight a conversation about affirmative action. affirmative action has pitted one group against another, specifically asians against african-americans. we will get into that with an a for lee, who has written exclusively -- with jennifer lee, who has written exclusively about race and the quality. john lloyd young will close with the performance of the four season megahit "can't take my eyes off you."

we are glad you joined us. those conversations and the performance coming up right now. ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs nation from viewers like you. think you. ♪

tavis: california and michigan are just two states that have .ismantled affirmative action that decision has rankled many. in california it has pitted one group i guess another. asians against african-american specifically. joining me is than a for lee, who has written exclusively on race and herschel inequality. -- and social inequality. good to have you on the program. california,ening in the physically were you have these groups pitted against one another. they it's more than just asian-americans and african-americans. it's also about latin americans. there was a position killed by a minority ofcal

asian-americans who did not want to overturn the proposition that would allow universities to reconsider race in a in mission. there is aent was small group that are good if you allowed universities to reconsider race in image should their numbers would be heard, that it be quotas on asian-americans. thing i wanted to point out is this is a vocal minority who opposes affirmative action. in a 2012 asian-americans survey it shows 76% of asian-americans support affirmative-action policies. tavis: they are beings heard up. there is a bunch of money. i have seen these commercials that really are about the business of trying to seek out asian-americans who have a beef

against the system that my sense is can be used in cases, lawsuits to come in the future that would make this more contentious and it already is. >> that's an excellent point. i think asian-americans haven't always been behind these beefs. they are very deliberate attempt to use asian-americans as a wedge against affirmative action and to pitt asian-americans against underrepresented minorities like latino americans and african americans and native americans. i would like to underscore the point that the vast authority of asian-americans actually support affirmative-action helices. tavis: what are we -- affirmative-action policies. >> what are we missing when we look at it from a sociologist perspective? fax i think sociologist has a lot to offer.

when most americans think about affirmative action the first ingot comes to mind is race and should we can do the race in a mission for higher education -- consider race in emissions for higher education. the vast majority have been women, in particular white women. there are a number of policies for different groups like the children of alumni in colleges who are getting a boost because of their status as children of alumni. there are a number of different policies that help different groups that are not racialized minorities. i think most americans become uncomfortable thinking about race and affirmative-action because it requires we really think about the history of race relations in the country, and it forces us to acknowledge we are not opposed racial society and there are different groups that face different kinds of disadvantages from the start. would say in terms of college

emissions when you think about it one of the strongest so she'll logical points is that a child's level of education is -- sociological point is a child's level of education is determined by his or her parent education, so the fact you see generational advantages is that we are not just a meritocracy about hard work and perseverance, which is the dominant ideology behind the american dream. there are best-selling books by people who make an argument that is different. that asian-americans end up advanced ring because they drive their children to be successful. there is nothing wrong with coming from a family where excellence is an expert haitian, -- expectation, but it doesn't

right the same for other families. >> that's an excellent point. people have looked at culture and pointed to group culture as an explanation for group outcome. i would argue a couple things. there is a recent study that has just been released by the bureau of labor statistics that shows when you control for family income, families across racial and that they group invest the same amount of resources in their children's education. is it about culture or class? i would also say an important element missing from a lot of these arguments is what look at the group to come to the united states. let's look at asian immigrants, chinese and korean immigrants. they tend to be highly select give of their groups. --

selective of their groups. chinese immigrants 53% have a college education or more. in china only five percent have a college education or more. those immigrating to the united states are the most highly educated. they are able to invest resources in their children. they are also able to supplement supplemental systems for their children that help chinese-americans more generally, so is it really about tiger mom practices, or is it about which group has the privilege? >> we know what the politics are. sociologist from your viewpoint whether or not there are tools we can use to help us that are have a conversation about corrective programs like affirmative action society, or are

the politics going to rule these and all thebottom other viewpoints get ignored? >> i hope that's not the case. i'm not that has a mystic. the fact you have me on the program indicates academics in general have a voice. i appreciate you putting us on their. -- on air. i would say there are a number of things we can think about that would help all groups. the perceptive is all asian-americans are high achieving and successful, but if you look at the asian-american category there are a number of asian-american groups who are low achieving and have high poverty level. --ou look at where ocean theytion and hmong,

have higher high school dropout rate than african-americans. i support them because they would benefit all groups. they would not disadvantage any group. i would also say some of the other research i have done with my colleague at ucla, one thing we found is the children of mexican-americans make enormous progress. in some ways they are the most accessible group. if you look at how much education their children have obtained compared to their immigrant parents they double the high school graduation rate of their parents. they double the college graduation rate of their fathers and triple that of their mothers . when we looked at the most success all -- successful second-generation mexican american immigrants in los

angeles we found they were most able to take advantage of resources. they were in ap classes. they had guidance counselors who were very and her mental in helping them navigate the college emissions process am a so when your parents don't have the college degree you need to look at external resources to boost your education, and i would say investing more in education so people don't feel it is a zero-sum game. tavis: what is the price we pay as a society if we don't figure out how to better navigate these difficult questions about how to level the playing field in this country? >> our society is incredibly diverse as a result of immigration, and it's going to continue to become diverse. what kind of society do we want to live in? do we want to live in a society where certain groups continue to risk the advantages and other

groups we are willing to just let go? i think we benefit enormously from having racially and ethnically diverse student bodies. i know in my classes the classes are intellectually much and interesting when i have a student body composed of a number of different -- asian-americans, latino americans, african-americans, and white americans. we as a society owe it to our youth to provide all of them the kind of resources to reach their potential. tavis: i appreciate you coming. the debate is a long way from over. we will what the next term of the u.s. supreme court, which case will be up next on the docket. we know we will be coming across this time and time again. coming up, john lloyd young from jersey boys, a conversation and performance. stay with us.

for anyone of a certain age the name frankie valley and the four seasons conjures up a lot of times. the story of the band became a block west are starring john lloyd -- blockbuster starring john lloyd young, who won a tony. he has three private the role for the movie version. he will perform for the close of the show. i will look at a scene from directed by clint eastwood. >> a voice like yours is a gift from god. the word is going to hear that voice. >> sure. it's just i wish things would start to happen. >> impatient. don't worry, you work hard, everything works.

these days either a movie becomes a broadway hit or a broadway hit the comes a movie. make of it? >> it seems less likely a broadway hit the comes a movie, especially on broadway. i think it's great when a good broadway show makes it on the screen well. certainly i know how rare it is for someone who originates a broadway show to make it on the screen. i feel very privileged i got to do it. tavis: i want to talk about your role in just a second, but what is it about this story that exit right to go the other way is to mark there are a lot of runway hits becoming movies. what do you think makes this right for the big screen? and thisk this movie

show -- if it had started as a movie it would be in the tradition of the doors or ray. a biopic about a band. because it started on age it could only have been classified as a musical. more ofit structured is a biopic on stage. this is the story of a band that none of the songs masquerade as scenes. the songs are sung in the recording studio because the bands were in the recording studio or you hear them in a concert because the band was giving a concert. they didn't take sherry baby and have them ing it to a girl named sherry. it was just a song on the ed sullivan show. i think that's a major difference between this and a broadway musical. did you process being

given the opportunity to do this on film? i really was floored when i found out i had the chance to do it. broadway showte a and there is a lot of attention around it -- i am on the cast album. it's a little uncomfortable hearing the movie was happening and can do during the idea i have to go through the rest of my life watching someone else take that baton and carry it forward on film. there is that historical significance of being able to translate. most people will see the movie over the stage flay. i am glad those people who see whatovie have it's a of original broadway production -- have a taste of the original production. it's not the cap of the show. there are maybe one million

people who saw the original cast on the original stage. now 19 million people have seen the stage production in some carnation. incarnation. certain performances like my fair lady or even cabaret, those performances were before my time this age performances. i hear my parent talking about the great broadway performances coming up, and the only reference i have is the movie that retains the star from the age. that's something that meant a lot for me my entire life. finding out i would be able to take the essence of that performance and put it in a permanent form was very personal. clint eastwood every actor dreams of working with someone like him. that was a dream come true also. a greatastwood was actor. he is a lover of jazz, but not the person who comes to mind

when i think of directing something like this per se. i don't want to offend mr. eastwood. a great erector can do a variety of things. what was the experience for you? >> he saw me on age and cast me from that page performance. i never had to audition for him. i talked to him after the performance. he talked to the cast. i talked to him. the next time i saw him was on his set. clint eastwood can have anyone he wants for his movies. he has the clout to say, i want this person. all right, have who you want. the fact he wanted me was a huge compliment. him i got to working with knowing i was expected to have that performance on screen was in some ways pretty easy.

he allowed me to tap this performance i knew for more than 1000 times. research we have been able to duplicate the number at about 1400 performances you have done. there are two questions i want to ask. what's the most significant takeaway you have from having played the same guy 1400 times. you nailed -- you know frankie valley area well. what is the take away? >> there is something irresistible about an american dream character from working-class origins. there is something about that sound. frankie valley himself is a complex guide. he understands the duality of life.

even in success there is little a problem somewhere in your life, and both big this at the same time. i hard life. it comes through in the music. just doing hard time the talk show every day. seeing falsetto 1400 times. how do you protect the instrument? >> i live a very clean life. no yelling in bars or treating. everything you would expect the coach to tell an athlete to do and lots of sleep and lots of rest. sometimes your life can become ready goal, but i found -- pretty dull, but i found the days i was so bored i could not

stand it i have gone for the best performance. i have done a lot of reading. on broadwaye of you -- the audience loves you on broadway. the audience will get to see it on the big screen as jersey boys open around the country. you get to hear him sing right about now. i will say thank you for watching. thank you for coming on this program. good night you, and as always, keep the faith. ♪ ♪ you're just too good to be

true can't take my eyes off of you you be like heaven to touch i want to hold you so much arrivedlast love has od i'mthink -- thank g alive you're just too good to be true can't take my eyes off of you from the way i stand there is nothing else to compare the side of you leaves me weak there are no words left to speak please let me know that it's real

you're just too good to be true can't take my eyes off of you ♪ i love you baby and if it's quite alright i'll leave you baby throughout the lonely night ♪ trusted me when i say ♪ pretty baby ♪ now that i found you, stay ♪ and let me love you ♪ you're just so good to be true can't take my eyes off of your

you'd be like heaven to todd -- touch i want to hold you so much at long last love is arrived and letting god i'm alive you're just too good to be true can't take my eyes off you ♪ i love you baby ♪ and if it's quite alright i need you baby through all the lonely night i love you baby --ck the me when i say trusted me when i say oh pretty baby don't leave me down i pray now that i found used day -- you stay and let me love you, baby, let

me love you you're just too good to be true ♪ [applause] crack for more information on today's show visit tavis smiley at ebs.org. i'm tavis smiley. join me for a conversation with bill medley about his candid memoir "the time of my life." that's next time. we will see you then. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs tatian from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ thank you. ♪

we're taking a roadtrip across the united states, interviewing different people who inspire us. (mechanic) we haven't received the part yet, i cannot give you an answer when you're gonna be on the road again. do you ever have those fears that what you were doing wouldn't be accepted by the world? you are here on this planet to do something unique that nobody else can. where this has lead, i've just kept an open mind and let it kind of evolve. (female announcer #1) state farm has made it possible for this series to be shared on public television stations across the country. helping a nation of young people find their own roads in life. like a good neighbor, state farm is there. (female announcer #2) roadtrip nation would also like to thank the college board for supporting the series. the college board: connect to college success. (male announcer #1) roadtrip nation is also made possible by at&t: helping connect students to success in school,