tavis: good evening. from los angeles, i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with a true tv visionary, brian lamb, the founder and driving force on c-span, which turned the camera on our democratic process. he has now written a book called "sundays at eight: 25 years of stories from c-span's q&a and booknotes." us,re glad you have joined our rare conversation with c-span founder "booknotes --brian lamb, coming up. ♪

♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ ♪ c-span,s the founder of brian lamb is truly a television visionary. nights at 8:00 :00, he has maintained a unique oasis, hosting an in-depth conversation with authors and thought leaders, and he has written about those now in a text, appropriately called "sundays at eight: 25 years of stories from

c-span's q&a and booknotes. been honored have to sit with you on that set once i am finally, friend, after all of these years glad to have you on this set. river road, canal road, main street. tavis: you beat me to it. take that, hoosiers. i wentent to purdue, and to indiana, so we are not even going to have that conversation tonight for those who know the rivalry between these two schools, but i am glad to have on this program. there are millions of americans who feel this way, and i want to talk about how you actually pulled this off, but there are millions of us who i know thank you and are indebted to you. i know there was a teen who but you wereff,

the visionary. you were the leader, and you brought a c-span, and i think of all of the things that we have access to now because of c-span, so i just want to thank you for this public service you brought us all these years ago, and i will start by asking how did that happen? tell us how c-span came to be? >> thank you for thinking me, but the television executives who funded it in the beginning were the ones who took a chance, and there was no reason to do it because we were a nonprofit and were not making any money from it. the satellite went out, and they head home box office and showtime, and they were looking for new things, and they gave me a chance to pitch this thing to some guys in the cable business, and they said, if we think this will work, we will get behind it. another bit of history, there was a network i used to work for, b.e.t.

of course, he sold his four $3 billion. >> we did not quite get to that point. tavis: yes, bob sold it for 3 billion, with a b. .,t with all respect to b.e.t they have not given us the are thingsd there worth more than money, so what do you think the value of c-span has been all of these years in the american public discourse? >> more than anything else, it is that people have the time to complete a thought. they do on a show like this, but, you know, there are so few of them left, and there are people who live far away from they watch their government officials, watch the media, if they are interested, and as you know, we have done

many shows together called the resents," -- and i would sit there and watch it. it was terribly interesting to watch 28 of your guests sit there and talk about issues. -- i: how hard was this will get to your book, i promise. how hard was it to get c-span off the ground, because for a long time, you are fighting congress because they did not want their proceedings to be -- vised >> there was a group who wanted them televised. they were often younger, and now , and 430 have changed. in the early days, people were just afraid of television in congress.

you know, the senate used to have all of their hearings on, but the senate did not, and they'll did not allow cameras in there hearing rooms, and the house came along and said, people want to know who we are. we had better do something, so we came together. looking back on it, it did not seem that it was hard. i came out of indiana. i did not have a name. nobody really cared, so if i fell on my face, so what, and the industry was willing to take a chance, and we are still here. eventually, you won the fight to get all of the proceedings in the house covered. what did it say to you then that the public business and those that were doing the public business were afraid of us to see that in public? >> and some of them still are.

you know what washington is like. once you get there, it is kind of an insular world, a buddy system, and they do not want to share that. they wanted to spend money and not have people see exactly how it was done. but tip o'neill, believe it or not, said yes. the former house speaker. he was one of the old guys, and he did not have anything to gain because he was speaker. they were ready to put the house on the map because the senate was the best-known body in the united states. in the eyes of a lot of people, beyond -- i am watchingt, c-span, as i do all of the time, and i think about those who did not wanted to be televised and how they run to the floor in the evenings so they can give these speeches, off into an empty room, because it is late at night. example of that was

senator robert byrd of west virginia. he is now deceased. at the time, the longest-serving member of congress. he was totally opposed to that, and after seven years, he led the charge to put cameras in the senate, and then in a very he probablyway, spoke more than anyone else on the senate floor, and he knew he was on television. robert byrd was an interesting guy. the supreme court, still that branch of government that will put out audio recordings of the oral arguments but still no tv cameras at the u.s. supreme court. you are now 72, as you said earlier. do you think in your lifetime that would change? will there ever be cameras inside the supreme court? know.o not right now, they are dug in. this group does not want it. it will take somebody to realize

that it is the education factor that is important, so that people can see. it is a magnificent institution. tavis: what about the notion that the justices do not want the lawyers playing to the camera? do not think that is the issue. the chief justice has a gavel, and they can gamble down, and if they do something out of the ordinary, it will embarrass them. --hink people are worried the judges are more worried about somebody like john stewart jon stewart. i haveas i said earlier,

been on your programs, even back when you were hosting "w journal," and i have been amazed over the years, stewart,u mentioned jon how you have been able to remain bipartisan in this world. c-span was first, and then you have fox news and msnbc, these other entities that are out there, and then even on journal," you have got the democratic phone line, the republican phone line, the independent phone line. you are bending over to accommodate. how do you do that? >> in my case, i am brain-dead. just our job. we believe so strongly in our mission. tavis: but it is the news networks' job too.

getting criticized for leaving a certain way. >> it is only their job because they say it is their job. they can do whatever they want to do. we have just said in our mission statement that we are going to get out of the way. like it when i people tell me what they are thinking. i would rather have it that way rather than masquerading that you're totally unbiased, because you are in both worlds. you do this. it is not easy when you are an activist. how do you -- how does c-span -- and there is a much deeper parts of this, because there is a team of 300 who figure this out, but it is not just that c-span is unbiased in its coverage, but how do you go about deciding what to cover? as you have got democratic event and republican events, and at the end of the year, maybe an audit about whether or not you

have been evenhanded in the event you have covered? >> we have three networks and -- and the radio station and podcasts and all of that stuff. you can get to everything. 75% is fairly honest. we do not get a lot of complaints. people have learned over the years that we will get there if we can, and they have learned how to do it. you do itter off if monday, friday, and saturday. as you know, when we covered your event on saturday, there are not a lot of live events to cover on saturdays. i went to knock on -- have you got any wood around here? your sense -- and, again, c-span has done a lot of good work, maybe more

than any broadcast institute that i am aware of -- what is your sense of citizenship involvement, citizenship engagement? there is empowering us and enlightening us, and yet, with all the work that you and others have done, to give us the intel at the need, to look data and be really impressed, you have got a horrible job. you have given us all of this coverage, and we still do not engage in democracy -- >> let's make it as basic as possible. when you were growing up around the air force base, you would have done it when you were 16 years old because you were interested in public service, public affairs. that is what we see all of the time. people who gravitate towards being interested. they start watching us when they are kids. their dads and moms sit them

down and say, i want you to watch this, and if you get 10% of the country, 30 million people, that is the group that leads anyway, so it is worth doing. the good news for us in the cable industry, we do not have ratings or stars or anything. it with about $65 million per year, and if we keep the cost down, we can keep doing it. about as much as you use in a week. tavis: please. [laughter] can hear them in the control room laughing at that, brian. [laughter] the value and the importance, to your mind, of c-span covering these events uninterrupted is what? and i ask that because there are

certain days when i really do not want to hear commentary, and i sit on some of these shows from time to time, but even i at times do not want to hear commentary. i just want to hear the president's speech. i want to hear without all of the commentary, and c-span is the best at that. doing that without that left or right commentary? >> r-value is in the middle of all of the others and what they do and the commentary. we are there when you want more of it, want the whole thing. i do not know how you watch it, but maybe you and i watch the same way. i do not sit there all day and , but i get 20 minutes, and that 20 minutes opens the door about what is going on, and i think that is how most people watch it. they are not sitting there for three hours watching a hearing, but when it is your interest, when it is your issue, you can see the whole thing.

that is an advantage not only to the congress, it is an advantage to the witness and a real advantage to the public. i am going to ask this at the risk of you knowing the answer and not telling me anyway. data tell you where is its most popular region in the country? i am thinking wherever the aretest people are, they probably watching c-span, so i am wondering if southern california is on the list of people who watch c-span the most. >> we do not know for sure, but i can tell you this. 1979, 80tarted back in -- 1980, los angeles was the number one with call-in shows, and san diego. all around this area. tavis: when i have been a guest journal," ion

cracked up with phone calls from los angeles, san francisco. it is 4:00 on the west coast, and those calls are still coming in from the west coast. >> and they are intelligent. [laughter] when we started, the newspaper in this country that did the most work telling our story was the los angeles times. nelson was the bureau chief, and it was not just jack nelson, it was david cook and all of these the idead they caught and used to write it up all of the time. east of theds mississippi who think only smart people live east of the mississippi. we have got something to offer here, as well. let us go to this, your book that i am so glad you put together. how did "sundays at eight" come be, and how did it come to be that that was what you wanted to

put your signature stamp on? >> this is the ninth book we have done, and about seven of them have the transcripts. you are in one of them. we take the questions out and make a narrative. this is not 41 chapters, the best in the years. it just commemorates the fact that this show every sunday has alwaysne hour been there and always a different show for one he five years. there has never been a repeat. it is one of those things that we thought we would celebrate. and also, some of the stories are fantastic. tavis: i remember when i first appeared on "sundays at eight," and the producer said, we are only going to have you on one time. and i said, what if i write over 20 books, and she said, you will only be on one time. i have got a book by dr. king coming out this summer. >> yes, i heard.

tavis: what i like about that is decisionatizes -- that democratizes the book business, and i say that as an author who knows a lot of other authors who have written high-quality stuff. i take pride in it. there are a lot of people who sit in this chair who do not otherwise get an interview on television. none of the other shows will book them on. let you on one time -- because there are so many good books. >> that is why at the urging of the 48 hourst to of books on weekends, and more and more we have done, the less important one show is. i still do it, and it is important to me because i learn so darn much, but we keep expanding so a lot of these can

be heard. you are right. it is on what makes it and what does not. i am sure the viewers want to know more about brian lamb, your reading schedule -- i know you do not step into these shows without reading them. education was fine, but i was not ready to learn. i was in the navy, and i went to washington, and once i got involved in this, the thing that lit a match to me was the bicentennial constitution, and i served on a little committee of was given ans that ofk called "miracle philadelphia" by chief justice moore and berger, retired at the -- chief justice warren

burger, retired at the time. -- youwhat is the joy said you love to learn. what is the joy for you, sitting there week in and week out? what is the take away for you? >> i do not know. i came out, and i had 5.5 hours, and i never stopped reading. you learn as much as you can learn about everything. that is how i got to know you. sometimes, you are interesting. [applause] tavis: he will be in l.a. all week long, two shows nightly.

tip your waitresses. , nightly. now you made me lose my thought. [laughter] did you ever imagine in the early days that c-span really had a chance at making it? >> i did not have any expectation, and when we started the first year or so, and we were only on eight hours a day, five days a week. think, literally growing up like we did in the midwest, coming to washington and seeing i did thinklike, that people in the west would be interested in it enough to make it work. it, and we doe not have to show numbers, and it is hard. it is just hard. and if you had to show numbers,

we would not make it, because there are days when there are not very many people watching, and there are days when there are a lot more people. actually, do you know what is our most successful? seendent obama has been more. the second most successful, a comedian. in, and they come are right up there. here is the president, and here seth rogan. here is the president, and here meyers. tavis: how many more of these do you have in you? a bit sad,se i was but i thought it was very

gracious of you to do it when you did it. as theou stepped down ceo, running c-span everyday. you have a closet in the back? >> i have a closet. it is a wonderful place. nobody knows where i am. tavis: how many more of these do you have in you? >> i do not know. but when we submitted chapters, we had so many that we may do two. you get your biography out, we will have to get you in it. we will end this conversation on this note right now. [laughter] i have enjoyed this much more than sitting across from you being questioned by you. i have waited a long time to get you out in l.a. and get you on this set, and i mean this sincerely when i say you have done a great service to the

nation. you and the folks at c-span, for all of the things we otherwise would not see, i thank you. >> and i thank you for being here, for having the network to air tavis. tavis: the new book from brian lamb, the founder of c-span. it is called "sundays at eight: 25 years of stories from c-span's q&a and booknotes." brian lamb, thanks for being here. >> my friend, thank you. show forat is our tonight, and as always keep the , faith. ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. tavis: hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for -- taking a deep dive into what is grabbing the country. that is next time. we will see you then.

♪ ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ ♪ >> be more. pbs. ♪ >> be more.

♪ [male #1] so there's three of us. [male #2] we are going on a roadtrip. [female #1] to stop off at different cities. [male #1] and talk to inspiring people. [male #2] this is a point where i can go anywhere i want career-wise but i don't know where to go. [male #1] i want to say it's going to change my life because undoubtedly it will. [female #1] i want to figure out how people pursue careers that are actual pursuits and they're not pursuing money. to be really happy i think you have to be counter-cultural, and you have to have the bravery to do it. [female narrator #1] roadtrip nation would like to thank the college board for supporting this series. the college board: connect to college success. [male narrator #1] this public television series is supported by the university of phoenix foundation. helping roadtrip nation build hope, discovery, and educational opportunities in school communities