good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. tonight we continue our conversation with writer, producer, director, actor, lyricist, mel brooks. "blazing saddles" has just been released in a 40th anniversary edition. my conversation, part two, with mel brooks, coming up right now. ♪

>> announcer: contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ >> excuse me while i whip this out. [ screams ] >> believe it or not, 40 years since mel brooks gave us

"blazing saddles." this is a wonderful anniversary edition with some notes and a bunch of other good stuff in here. >> yeah. nice little book. >> and i can't believe it's been 40 years. i've seen this thing more times than i can count and laugh every time like it was the first time i saw it. >> oh, yeah. >> it's insane. >> i told you, i saw it the other night on a big screen. >> reporter: i've never seen it on a big screen. >> oh, yeah. when they come to the desert, and the desert -- there's one scene where you see the desert on a big screen is real, on imax. we saw it at the chinese theater on imax. there's a lot of desert and they come to a little spot. all these horses line up and there's a toll booth, you know. that's so damn crazy. >> it's funny. >> a toll booth in the desert. >> it's funny is what it is. last night when we wrapped up this conversation you were about to make a point. i cut you off. it's been 24 hours but do you remember what you were about to say? >> yeah. i was going to say, you know,

pbs, it gives you so much. it gives you so many -- not just great stuff like "downton abbey" but all kinds of weird, wonderful people shows, you know. tess a strange phenomenon that it's watched by intellectuals and college graduates and it's meant for poor people. it's okay. you figure that one out, but i like it. i love pbs and, you know, we used to have it on kcet, which is a local station here, santa monica and beverly hills. and now thank god for koce that took over. >> pbs socal. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. but i like -- that was just -- i was going to say, how could you give up, without asking us, why do they do a referendum or something, you know, some

memorandum to the people who are kcet listeners and say, do you mind if we -- >> switch? >> we don't do pbs? yeah, we mind! are you crazy? we love pbs. where are you going, man? where are you going? you know. but they just did it. so kcet has suffered badly, you know. >> can i just say on behalf of all the people at pbs socal and pbs across country, it's a delight to know that mel brooks watches us on a regular zblasz oh, yeah. >> and speaking of which, i don't know about you, so i'll ask you. i was just overjoyed at the american masters piece on you. >> oh, they did a good job. >> i thought they did an amazing job. did you like it? >> i did. i did like it. now it's like 36 hours of stuff that they had to cut down to -- but it was beautiful. trachtenberg, the director. it was lovely. it was beautiful.

well thought of, well shot and well edited. that was like a trifecta of talent. and it really worked. american masters was good. i was proud of it. >> since we're on this show, back to your work as producer and director, what's been the most difficult part of the creative process for you? >> well, i'd have to say that the most important thing is not to think about what is going to work, what is commercial, what will be accepted and digested, but inspiration. just say the things -- say all your -- get all your frustration out, get your dreams out. i think it's the first part. it's the creation. it's the inspiration and the writing. the rest of it is hard work. it's sweat, you know. it's shooting it.

you could be, you know, shooting it for 12 hours a day. you could be editing till you're blue and blind. and you can't -- but it doesn't mean a thing if it isn't something like -- i don't know, little movies that you love that you don't want -- like "the 12 chairs" that i made in yugoslavia. it's the inspiration. it's what -- do you know how i got to make "the twelve chairs"? it's a strange movie that nobody knows. >> tell me. >> there's a chinese gourmet society. we used to meet every tuesday night in chien wratown in new york. it was made up of julie green, speed vogel and mario puzo and joseph heller. and we would talk, you know, and we would just spend the night eating chinese food and talking. sometimes joe heller would -- he'd say, let me serve. he would take the best pieces

and then he'd say now you serve. really bad. he was a bad, bad guy. and mario puzo was beautiful he just ate everything. and there was nothing to take home because puzo would vacuum clean. that was it. and one night this is a story that joe told about mario because he found out. mario was busy writing upstairs and at midnight every night he would come downstairs. he was living in bay shore, long island. and he would make a dagwood sandwich. there was a comic strip called "blondie" and her husband, dagwood. >> blondie and dagwood, yeah. >> and the cliche many years ago, he would make a sandwich with like three or four pieces of sbred all kinds of bologna, cheese, ham, turkey, whatever. you know, a big sandwich. mario actually did that. he actually made that with

mortadella, with olives. i mean, he explained the sandwich one night and i was just so amazed and proud of him. you know, that he could make that and eat it. so he would make the sandwich and he would put it on a tray and take it up to the attic where he was writing and he would eat around midnight. one night he comes down, makes the incredible sandwich, he's on the stairs and he goes up. he's near the top of the stairs, boom. the tray goes. he goes. he tumbles down the stairs. he hears the crack and he knew he broke his leg. he knew that his leg was broken. the sandwich is landed over there, the phone is over there to call the police and to call the hospital, whatever, paramedics. >> paramedics. >> yeah. he's in the middle. there's the sandwich. there's the paramedics. to hell with the broken leg. he crawls toward the sandwich. and this is mario puzo, guys. he finishes the sandwich, then he has this long crawl like an infantryman during the war back

to the phone so he can call. and it's true, you know. he knew he would be in the hospital with bad food, you know, for a month or something. joe told us the story and it was beautiful. but what i really wanted to -- before we go. >> we got time. go ahead. >> i'm very -- >> you should be. this is your son. tell me about max brooks. >> this is max brooks. max brooks wrote a couple of books. the first book, i thought it was -- i hope he doesn't hear this. i thought he was a little crazy. i really was worried about him. he wrote a book called "the zombie survival guide" and i said, all right. okay. kids are nuts. he likes zombies. the book is called "zombie survival guide." it's all about what to do in case you're attacked by a zombie. you know, how to defend yourself, where to hide, where to go, you got to stick a knife

through their brains. it's a little embarrassing. >> i'm laughing -- before you go forward, i'm laughing at you making fun of max's ideas with the stuff that you produced. >> yeah, right. >> you got some nerve. you got some nerve. >> i do. by the way, that book sold like 2 million copies. >> yeah. >> i mean, i go to him now for money. so max then writes another book about a zombie war called "world war z" and brad pitt falls in love with it. >> optioned it, yeah. >> and they make this movie and it's like a big worldwide success. so, he's into, you know, big things. he's doing really well. then i said, what do you got on the drawing board? he tells me about this. i said, well, i don't see that there's a lot of money in that, you know. what this is, it's about the 369th regiment in world war i.

now african-americans who were part of the u.s. army in world war i were not allowed to fight. they were just used as cooks, bottle washers and truck drivers. and this regiment was keen to show their prowess and show how good they were. so when they got overseas, they asked general pershing if they could fight for the french and the french took them in. pershing said sure, as a fighting unit. and they won the croix de guerre and they won every medal that's possible to win in war. they risked their lives. they never lost, like max says, a trench. they never lost a trench and they never lost a battle. >> harl emhellfighters. >> they came from harl em, in new york. new yorkers and the 369th was a black regiment. max wrote this book about them and it's a graphic novel. it's really beautiful.

>> those things get really popular these days. >> and i think -- i'm not making this up. will smith bought it for sony pictures and they're going to make a wonderful movie of it. >> max signed up some good people, brad pitt, will smith. >> yeah, will smith, the best. this is a remarkable book. and max said give it to tavis and tell him -- i said yes? -- that i will sign it. i will autograph it to him if he puts me on the show. i said okay. >> hand that to me. >> you should see. he was just on conan. >> okay. max, max. we got it. we got it. somebody call max. get max booked on the show. you mentioned the harl emhellfighters. let me go back to new york where you were born in brooklyn. >> yeah. >> your father dies when you were 2? >> i was interviewed about my father dying. a wonderful guy says, so you lost your father? i said we didn't lose him.

he died. he was in the bedroom. we knew where he was all the time. you lost your father? we didn't lose him. we liked him, you know. >> you were just a kid, though. >> yeah. i was 5. no, i was 2 when he died. >> you were 2, yeah. that's what i thought. >> my brother was 12. he was 10 years older. >> how did you become a man? >> my mom is raising four boys all by herself. well, my grandmother and aunt sadie live across the hall and helped out a great deal. and my brother irving who was a real here o he was 12. so he was like a surrogate father taking care of the family. he went to brooklyn college for eight years four hours a night so he could work eight hours a day and bring whatever he made at this factory on 7th avenue. at one time -- it's 1944 now or something, we're in the war. my mother has four blue stars in

the window. four boys in the service. thank god none of them are gold because if it's gold, you've lost a child. you know, you're gone. >> yeah. >> so, my brother lenny and i are fighting the germans. my brother, bernie, is fighting the japanese and my brother irving is fighting the george washington bridge trying to get across because he's in ft. monmouth, new jersey. he's in radar or something there. but anyway, we're all in the service. my brother lenny is in the air force. he wins the air medal. he does 25 missions. he's supposed to come home. then they make it 50 missions. and then in his 35g9 or 36th, he's shot down and a prisoner of war and he make ace record. the red cross goes there to prisoners of war and you can make a record to send it back home. my brother, lenny, make ace record called "i miss you." that was a song that binge crosby made famous. so every night, my mother kitty,

she would put this record on. ♪ i miss you since you went away dear miss you more than i can say dear ♪ and, you know, my mother -- then she would break down and she would cry. i would say, don't put the record on! you put it on every night. we know you miss him. we know we love you, but she would put it on every night, you know. but he made it. red cross, they got him home. so, thank you, god. everything worked out. >> everything has worked out for you. how did you get into this business? when did you know or how did it happen for you that entertainment -- >> well, there was amateur hour at the loew's gates in brooklyn near pitkin avenue and there were three prizes and four contestants. there was a majorette spinning and big fat guy and he sang pagli accci. every time he hit a high note, abuten would pop off. i swear to you.

there was a skinny black kid and he was pretty good. he had black and white shoes and he was dancing. he was fair. and i did jolson. i was terrific. you know. because everybody was doing mammy. i was doing the other jolson. it was a different jolson. ♪ when you were sweet when you were sweet 16 ♪ it was a beautiful jolson. but they didn't know that. they wanted mammy. so three prizes. majorette wins. she dropped that thing three times. the fat guy, he came in second with the buttens flying all over. the little black kid, he did all right. he got third. three prizes. i got nothing. but i was determined. and so i kept -- finally, i went to the borscht belt and to the resorts in the mountains and i learned my craft.

i was a busboy and i was a waiter and i was all kinds of things. finally, somebody got sick. i was a utility actor and i took over. unfortunately, the part -- he was a district attorney. he was about 70 years old. so they put a wig on me. they put a beard on me. they put lines, you know, to make me old. i'm supposed to say, there, there, harry, have a glass of water and tell me in your own words exactly what happened that night. okay, i can do that. but i got to do it a little older. not so fast. right. >> so i did. there, there, there, harry, have a glass of water and tell me what happened, exactly what happened on the -- and the waterfalls and breaks all over the desk. and the audience is shocked. we're shocked. harry's shocked. i'm shocked. i walked out.

i didn't know what to do. i mean it's all quiet. i walked out to the footlights and i take off my wig and my beard. i say i'm only 14. i've never done this before and i knew then i was in comedy cause i got pretty big laughs. >> and how did you -- you mentioned earlier going up to the mountains to perfect your craft. you were much younger then. how did you -- how have you been vu perfect this had craft of writing? you write so well. >> you know, it's -- the inspiration is 80% of it. but there is 20% left. and that's called rewriting. and it's not just one rewrite. it could be 16 or 17 rewrites before the ideas are captured. you've got to be blessed with the ability to come up with new, different, exciting ideas. but you've also got to be blessed with stick-to-itiveness and craftsman-like qualities so that you keep working on it so

that it's easily understood, acceptable and polished. >> have you always been -- i suspect you're always the final arbiter of whether your stuff is funny or not but how do you know when you've got it to the point where it's going to work? >> you know, i could hear the audience laughing. i'm a bit of a genius. i mean, you've got to know -- >> you say so modestly. >> yeah, modestly. wait, i'm an egot! >> i said it already. >> i'm an egot. yeah. i actually divine -- somehow i write something and i can hear the audience laughing and enjoying it. or -- and i've been blessd with the ability to prejudge what -- you know, every once in a while something bombs and i say, where did that come from? how the hell did that not work? you lousy audience, go to hell! then. but most of the time it would

work. i want you to tell you, you're very bright and you're very smart and, you know, you have a good sense of the whole business, you know, our business. you have a good sense of what's working, what he not. but even more important about what's valuable. you've got a good little meter in you about what's valuable. i watch your show. i do. >> i'm glad you raise that because, as everything does, it leads me to another question, which is how do you develop that sense of capacity in your own life, of when to go left, when to go right, when to stand still? how did you develop your own sort of capacity? >> i think -- you know, we've got to be lucky to intuit that from our families. you know, it starts when you're little, a very little kid. my mother was good. she was kind.

she was ebullient in life. she was, you know, onward and upward, excelsior. she loved life. she would always be singing. i mean, it would be a cold winter morning and it would be freezing. she would put my little clothes on the radiator, warm them up. dress me under the bed so when i got out of bed, i was warm, you know. she would be singing all the time. my mother would do like crosby. i remember her doing ♪ ♪ ♪ oh, brown ♪ she was doing crosby's scat singing, you know, and whistling. i mean, i got a lot of life force from her and, you know, from my brothers. so i think i was lucky that early environmental thing that is gave me a lot of drive. and the jews in the mountains,

you know. couldn't please them. say, ladies and gentlemen -- the jews, they're all sitting out there, ladies and gentlemen, man of a thousand faces, one, two, three -- and i'd turn to the band and say, they're waiting for a thousand faces. and they were, you know. you couldn't please them. >> it could have been the apollo in harl em. tough crowd. >> you know, i used to go there all the time. there was one night -- yeah, pretty good people. you know, tap dancing, singing, dancing. but once in a while -- there was this large girl. she was really large and she was singing ♪ kiss me once and kiss me twice kiss me once again it's been a long long time ♪ she wasn't bad. and then there was -- you know. and there were just kind of tolerant.

and she was singing. then this big guy with a kind of lamb -- light color, beautiful vest and he comes in at the bottom of the stage. he looks up at the apollo. and in those days when you didn't like a contestant, you said "boo." there was -- >> sandman came out. >> yeah, yeah and they would shoot them. bang and take her off. >> right. and the audience was wishy washy. they didn't want to hurt her feelings. ♪ kiss me once, kiss me twice she was going on and on. this guy comes out. he looks like fats wahler. he was a beautiful guy. he comes out and he says "we've got to shoot her." i'll never forget. i said now that's comedy. you know? they shot her and they took her off. >> mel brooks knows comedy and has entertained us for many, many years. lot of funny stuff with some

serious stuff along the way as well. this one is hilarious, the 40th anniversary of "blazing saddles" now a special 40th anniversary collection out now. and let me do something i've never done before and prepromote an upcoming guest on this program. >> max brook. >> max brooks. >> yeah, yeah. >> author of "the harl emhellfighters to be seen here on pbs in the coming days. mel brook, i'm honored to have you on this program. it's been a great -- >> i've got one question then i'll go. >> what? >> where did tavis come from? >> my aunt. >> was there somebody in the family, an uncle or -- >> my aunt was living in -- i was in mississippi, and in texas. she must have met some man in texas. >> traveling salesman. that's the only guy that would have a name like that. how do you do? my name is tavis i would love to have a cup of tea. >> he told my mother to name me tavis. >> as well.

it's good. would you like to do the tavis smiley show? i said, give me a minute. no, i joke. >> that is not in mel brooks but anyway -- >> there's many i say no to, many. and i like you. >> i feel honored. i have heard you on radio and television. so, thank you. >> yeah, the next thing is radar. that's the next thing i do. we got to do radar together. >> "blazing saddles," 40 years later. love you, mel brooks. >> love you, tavis. >> announcer: visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. the director of the acclaimed movie bell. that's next time. we'll see you then.

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