good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. tonight a conversation with nas on the 20th anniversary, of his release of "illmatic." innovative cd capping the rawness of his life in new york in the 1980s also a subject of at debut at the prestigious film fest vap. glad you joined us for a conversation with nas coming up right now. ♪

♪ and by contributions to your pbs station, from viewers lie you. thank you. ♪ nas was just 20 when he put everything he knew in a groundbreaking project called "illmatic," critical scrammingal for superlatives i might add. confusion and celebration of growing up in new york city in the 1980s. the cd has just been re-released in a 20th anniversary edition on a documentary about nas' life and times, just premiered at the

tribeca film festival. first a lookality the cut from "illmatic" called "half time." ♪ poetic too much flavor atlanta ain't i pull a number like a par pager ♪ ♪ because i'm an ace and giving me grace now wait another dose say you might be dead ♪ ♪ and i'm a nike ted and i wouldn't change that to feds ain't a damn thing going to change ♪ and doing the game why did you do it you know you got the mad fat when you rhyme ♪ ♪ it's half time >> i want to start by asking what it feels like to be relevant in this game 20 years later? >> wow. i didn't ask for it. i didn't think about 20 years ago -- i didn't think about it. it just happened. like, it just crept up on me. the time. it's just -- crazy.

i mean, i'm -- i'm happy. you know? i'm elated. i'm enjoying it. you sgloe definitely enjoying it. >> i ask that question in part because you know better than i do that this business changes like the speed of light. >> yeah. >> the speed of sound. to have done something 20 years ago that's still relevant, that's still being played and people still are pumping, that's a big deal. in particular, in the genre that you're in. hip hol. >> yhip-hop. >> yes. i literally a couple nights bet online to refresh my memory about the folk who have come and gone in this game over 20 years. it's -- i don't want to call no name, but you were there so you know. >> a lot of folk who came, they came and went. >> and here you are 20 years later still doing your thing? >> yeah. i've just been luck any a lot of

ways. and rap years, i'm up there. >> yeah. i think rap years are worse than dog years. i mean -- i think you way up there, man. >> yeah. dogs live longer than rappers. you know what i mean? it's bad. yeah. but i've been lucky, man. i just, you know, kind of stay out of the way. you know? that's my whole thing. i get it in and i get out the way. you know? >> yeah. you said rapper. i said rapper. and every time i think of you, though, i think of whether or not it is offensive that you're still called a rapper 20 years later, when i know that what you really see yourself as is a musician. who does rap. but i assume after 20 years, you've gotten comfortable with the title, rapper? >> yeah. what are you going to do? you know? it's what it is. i don't mind that. i like the term emcee. nobody uses that term anymore.

like, where the ems at? >> why is that? emcees is kind of associated with the old school organization where were as rap groups used to have, it would be not just a solo artist, it would about group because you always had a deejay. rapper and deejay made you a group. that was the emcee, that was the deejay. that's changed. we're solo artists. they should be emcee this guy or that, and i had an emcee name when i was trying to come up in the -- just trying to be a young writer, and that kind of just evolved into something else. >> yeah. >> to rapper. >> yeah. >> and rapper needs to go. rapper hung around too long, like. yeah. >> when you look back on "illmatic" two decades later what do you think specifically of the lyrical content? >> it was bold. it was -- it was revealing. it was honesty.

it was intraspective. it was -- really painting a picture of everything i seen. everything i that was around me. everything that i loved at the time i made references to things that are no longer in style. on that album. i say words like, you know, fat, like that's like -- that's a foot suit you got on. today you say something different. that's a nice suit or a smooth suit, but i use old school terms in that and stuff but the cool because it's right there cemented in that time. you know? >> how do you feel when you hear this 20 years later? about the conditions that you were living in then versus the conditions, maybe those same conditions -- you tell me -- that young folk who were your age now have to nav date in

2010? >> good and bad. the bad situations, just an end still happening now. the things i was talking about. but the good thing is about what has changed with, just even musicians, and rappers and all of that. to become business people, and that way we opened doors, and -- >> including yourself. >> yes. >> with shoes and everything else. >> yeah, yeah. so, you know, kids see me open a sneaker store in vegas. they might want to aspire to do something bigger and better. they might want to design their own shoe. they now it's possible now. back then that wasn't happening. when that record dropped a lot of things rein happen thapg is happening now. there's more hope now when they see us. and we see a better -- we see more doors opening than we saw back then. >> what's the up side? i can ask you, you'll give my an honest answer as you always do.

what's the up side, the down side, the slummy side of hip-hop being so main stream now? i say mainstream, let me back that. even if you don't think hip-hop has gone mainstream and i could debate you. wear not going there. it has been accepted by the mainstream. not necessarily the same thing. what do you make 20 years later of the fact hip-hop is so accepted now by the mainstream? >> anything that's really good everybody wants to put their hands on. and the multimedia puts their hands on it and everything happens that makes it global and then people forget the roots of it and people forget why they care tab and it gets torn apart and turned so commercial you don't know what the essence of the art form is even about. no matter what's going on in the mainstream world, i'm almost the guy who -- tries to tell the

people i meet, like, never focus on mainstream. never focus on the pop world. do what do you, and that world will come to you. don't run to that, because that -- i don't even know what "that" is out there. it's big, lights, glittering, looks like it's everything. but if you don't focus on that and just focus on what you're doing, we can stay in control of the art form and continue to push each other and the rewards are better, anyway, than chasing it. what the mainstream, with the mainstream, you got big successful acts that become household names overnight. the guy whose stick to their guns may not become household names overnight or may not even ever need to become household names but within a great circle of great people who admire great work, will you have their respect. while this mainstream it is what it is. you just got to continue doing what you're doing. >> the question is whether or not hip-hop music as an art form

can be mainstreamed. >> yes. >> and -- >> and still be -- >> still get the truth at the epicenter of it? >> yes it can. di diddy did it, tupac, jay-z, i've done it. of course. run dmc has done it. up know what i mean? but after run dmc's generation i think that generation got caught there, because they invented it. they invented rock with rap and getting all of this wide audience and then we brought it back to the street. and then that world, outside world, came to us anyway. we didn't have to put guitars in it. we didn't have to do anything to make, to cross over. they crossed over to us, with our generation. mine and wu-tang and all that. >> what do you make of the fact that you have survived an industry that has at times had its own level of violence in

part because you chose to stay out of the way? is that what you meant why in, or did you mean something else? >> no. you got it. it's the same way in the streets. ifyou feel like you're on to something that's going to be big, and there's a lot of distractions. there's a lot of people that's not going to want to see you get there, then you have to navigate yourself around that. you've got to -- it was the same thing, those same rules apply to the rap. streets, record deals now. know what i'm saying? you had to live by those same rules, and sometimes when you're were working, b.i.g. was out there work his new record, and we weren't used to having bodyguards. i didn't have real bodyguards at the time. i don't know if he had real bodyguards. just out there and you know, it could have been me. it could have been me out there, but he was dead center in that beef at the time. but overall, just moving around, all the unnecessary stuff. when you know there's a higher goal in your life, there

shouldn't be nothing that holds you back from reaching your goal. you have to be right on your thing. you know what i'm saying? steadfast. you can't break away. you can't try to chill with this crowd for a little while, because this crowd might be mixed up with something you don't want to get mixed up with. stay on your course. that's the only way. take the money and run was a phrase made by a wise cowboy or something. somebody knew something. >> take the money and run. >> yeah. >> since you have stayed on your grind, and the point you're making now, stayed on your grind these two decades since "illmatic" first came out what does nas think of his gift 20 years late jer i mean, the goal to your point a moment ago is to get better. you want to stay focused and improve. we want to keep advancing. when you hear your stuff, i mean, "illmatic" is awfully good. started at the top could, have

gone straight to the bottom. when you but "illmatic" out, how's he going to top this? your career could have went straight to the bottom or really challenge yourself to keep pushing forward another 20 years. how do you think you've done over 20 years? >> i did okay. [ laughter ] i did okay. you know, failure is not an option, and i always felt like, i'm a man who has, who doesn't have regrets and i don't live with excuses. i can't take excuse. i can't blame any thing or person for the reason i didn't get here. i couldn't live with myself if there was -- if i didn't make it to where i wanted to make it, i have to live with that. you know? and that's it. we're men. so i approached my music that way, because we have a lot to say in the words. there's so many words that's in -- in each song, in each verse. there's so many words. we got a lot to get out there and we're revealing a lot about ourselves and what we feel and

who we are. and i got to live by that word. so if it doesn't work, then i got to bow out. and that's it. but there will be no excuses. so that's how i lived it. >> artistically, you think you're better now than you were 20 years ago? >> i don't know. sometimes i -- sometimes i think about 20 years ago where, what i wanted to do, if i wasn't bombarded with the business. of the music business. you know? there was a lot of different ways i wanted to go with it that i never got a chance to do. but today, i'm more learned, i've figured out things and can see myself doing things, some real good things moving forward, too. so -- yeah. i was cool back then. now i might be better. yeah. >> yeah. >> when you hear yourself, in the studio, onstage, your flow, your stylings, your writing, on balance? do you think you're better

thousand than 20 years ago? >> what are you getting at? what are you trying to say, tavis? >> tries to get your own assessment over 20 years because it was an ionic and seminal piece of work. if this had been -- let me put it another way. if this had been or turns out to be, "illmatic" if this had been or tons out to be your magnus opus, are you okay with that? >> eye, i am, 100%. couldn't ask for a better record. when i approached it, i approached it trying to be the best. i was really young but i had a lot to say, and i knew what i wanted to do, and i'm proud of it. i'm glad i can be proud of it now again, i'm lucky, because i can hear imper feshgzs in it, but that's also what make it is a cool record. >> you canner that? >> yeah. >> i ain't heard none of that. no imperfections in "illmatic." >> most people, i talk to

actors, some haven't seen some of the movies, and it's because of that. they know where they were bad. to them, but to us, amazing. oscar award-winning type of performances. i can hear it. i would everybody inner say what -- >> you're not going to tell me? >> no, no. you're my man, but -- i want you to enjoy it the way -- >> i'm not to ask you because i don't want to know. sounds awfully good to me. you put the re-release out and got new mixed stuff on here, too, though? >> what we did, we found a demo, too, calmed "i'm a villain" must have been about 16 years old when we went in the studio and did that, and we were hustling back then and were able to get in a studio. with that song. so i'm surprised it popped up. i don't even have a copy of it. i'm happy the label found that song "i'm a villain" produced by jay supreme from my neighborhood and the rest of remixes that came out back then.

090 sounding remixes that were b sides and stuff like that and we compiled all the stuff there for they've might remember some of that. >> speaking of producers, kind of inside the game, but i want to raise it, because i have an appreciation for t. thank you. >> which is you were early on with putting three, four big producers on one project. i mean, you know, back in the day, when most people were hustling, it's them and their crew and they going to do the whole thing top to bottom. but you had -- >> thinking outside the box. >> thinking, yeah. >> well, you know what? i knew it was my time. i think a lot of us know when it's our time. no matter what profession you're in, you get a feeling, if you worked on it long enough, you know when -- when it's ready. i felt like it was ready. and it would be a shim ame if i would not do -- i saw so many people make the wrong moves with their records, and i needed my stuff to have the right music

with it. so i knew someone who knew all of those guys that could help me put the record together, and make it happen. >> that's big stuff. you mentioned movies. come 20g your documentary. a lot in a movie. broadcast news, and i loved it the first time i heard it and the line is what do you do when your life exceeds your dreams? what do you do when your life exceeds your dreams? and for years i wrestled with that question. thought i figured it out. when your life exceeds your dreams you got no choice. dream bigger dreams. >> definitely. >> when you're in new york and robert de niro walks onstage to introduce a film -- >> boy. >> "illmatic" about your life. how are you -- a kid of the city of new york. how do you process that? how does that feel? >> i was hitting my boy, hitting my brother, hitting everybody, like, yo, robert de niro just

said my name. he just set "illmatic." robert de niro said "illmatic" at tribeca film festival. opening night at the film festival. >> yeah. >> it was surreal. i watched "the godfather." "godfather ii" is my favorite movie and my brother said, tonight the godfather is watching you. i was like, who does that? i'm done, can retire, i've done it all. at this point just because robert de niro said "illmatic," i'm done. over. i'm good. don't have to do nothing else again. need a break or something. >> yeah. for folk who are maybe hearing this for the first time. i don't know where they've been, maybe hearing it for the first time that name, "illmatic," i-l-l-m-a-t-i-krmpl i-l-l-m-a-t-i-c, how did that become the name? >> beyond me. a kid hearing older guys say,

those sneakers are illmatic and a dude on my block named illmatic everybody knew. he was the big dude on the block, and the whole neighborhood knew him. he had most respect. you know? salute to illmatic out there, wherever you are. you inspired an album. but it was just a -- the terminology in queens bridge. you know? >> what do you make -- i get kicks out of this sometimes. because madison avenue has become good, always have been good at this but become really good tat in the age of hip-hop of just siphoning off the language. >> i look up -- >> look it up on cnn or -- it can be the most bland news network, and i hear the anchor or i'll hear the voice of a voice-over specialist and in a commercial, i'm like, it cracks me up. that the stuff we come up with, finds its way into the most interesting mainstream places even all of these years later.

>> and we're black and still hear words, what's that mean? every day i hear a new word and i feel like, maybe i'm out of touch? you don't know what this means? we black. and they staill -- our people comes up with stuff that throws us sometimes. now i'm outta touch. it's young people got this thing. you know what i mean? it just -- yeah, but it's everywhere and everybody's using the language and that's good. that's good, because it's tying us all together a little closer. >> yeah. i know this weekend you're heading to vegas. >> yeah. >> to open another another one of or entrepreneurial -- >> yeah. >> what you got jumping off, auentrepreneurial entrepreneurially. you don't got brag. i set you up. >> sneaker store. >> a sneaker store. >> a fun thing. that's a fun thing i've always wanted. >> you can make money and have fun. i like doing that. it's better that way, as a

matter of fact. >> exactly, man. sneaker store is something we're doing now. >> right. >> i'm a venture capitalist now, and this is the first time i'm really sayegh it on television. >> you're a vc? >> yeah. so i'm teched up. i'm invested in a lot of tech, and i'm getting into producing tv. i'm working that thing out right there. a little bit at a time. i don't want to say too much. >> uh-huh. >> you know, but i'm really happy about everything i'm into. i'm learning a lot. you know? i'm in a whole new world now. i'm 40. feeling good, too. [ laughter ] >> i think nas just told us we need a producer for this show, he might want to pop somebody into our project. is that what you just said? >> i definitely said that. >> is that what i heard you say? >> that would be an honor. >> no. i got a minute to go. i can talk to you for hours, i

so enjoy. i knew i made when my name appeared in a nas song one day. all of my brothers called me, said, negro, have you heard the new nas jack he mentioned your name. i was, never mind -- >> i try to talk about things that people that matter. >> i appreciate that. cover of "time" magazine, "newsweek," pbs, none of that meant anything to my family to my brother, until my name was in a nas track. that's a big deal. >> well, thank you. >> i assume that all things considered you are just beyond grateful at this point? >> very grateful, heappy excite about what's next and having a little trouble getting inspired to record until this whole campaign started for this first record, and listening to it, it took me back and made me kind of remember what my plan was musically. you know? and it made me look at everything that's gone on since then and it was like, it put me, showed me where i was at. showed me where i was at today

and i got real inspired. so i'm grateful. >> well, you are, they say some folk, legends in their own minds, some in their own time. you are certainly the latter. for anybody that loves music, this has to be no your collection. if you don't have "illmatic," your collection is missing something. from nas 20 years later. the re-release with stuff on it you have not heard. i highly recommend it, and when i come to vegas i'm grog to stop by your sneaker store. >> on the house. you good. your money is no good there. >> i'm definitely coming now. love you, man. glad to have you on. >> love you, too. >> that's our show for tonight and as always, keep the faith. there are a lot of stars in los angeles. this town is synonymous. but i can think of no more deserving star than tavis smiley. i represented the walk of fame, saw a lot come through 3w47 i

heard about your star, you're somebody who has used that fame, that position, to actually improve people the lives. it's not what go in front of the camera it's who we are behind the camera. congratulations as a native of los angeles, i couldn't be more proud and more excited to go on hollywood boulevard, walk all oevlg are your name, look down broudly and say that's our tavis, an l.a. original. for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next tie for a conversation with one of the world's great sopranos, renee fleming, starring in "a streetcar named desire." that's next time. we'll see you then. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

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