>> good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. at 81 she is in an already impressive career. one landmark, she was the first and so far only woman to host a late night network show. she also has a new book out titled "diary of a mad diva" where she gives politically incorrect a new meaning. we thank you for joining us for an interview with the incomparable joan rivers coming up.

♪ >> contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ ♪ >> joan river cracked up that p p proverbial glass ceiling. her latest book is called "diary

of a mad diva". she definitely lives in a country with no sacred cows. at 81, she is still showing no signs of slowing down. she does 120 live web casts a year called "in bed with joan" as womell as a weekly series on. i have wanted joan rivers on this program for all the years i have been doing it. i was saying to her that she was the very first economcomic thatr saw do live stand up. i was working for tom bradley, the late great mayor of the city. i would sneak upstairs every time you were there to watch you at carlos and charlie's. this is a full circle moment for me. >> and you came here -- where did you come from? >> indiana. the midwest. >> very brave. i am always impressed with people that leave home to go someplace to do well.

>> i'm impresses with you for a lot of reasons. let's start the mutual admiration society. >> okay. >> so many things i'm impresses about, one is -- >> too bad. >> i was saying when you walked on the set part of what separates those who make it from those who don't is a level of energy, you can be gifted, you can be talented, have lucky breaks about your level of energy astounds me. >> yes. anyone -- i don't know anybody in any field that doesn't work without a stop that's successful. including friends of mine that are successful but think, if you work a little harder you'd be successful. my energy, i love the business, and i'm terrified it will go away, it's that double thing that keeps me going. do the job, don't say no to anything. new york no, take the job, there might not be another one i'm can do that, all of that stuff go, that's the energy. >> once you've done it, joan, over 50 years, why are you terrified it might go away? its been taken away from me every third week it's taken away from me.

are you kidding? they come after you with everything. you shouldn't say that, you shouldn't do than then for a long time there was the age thing started in, before that i was banned from "carson" constantly things are taken away. >> where, though, does that fearlessness come from? >> i loved the business so much, you cannot take it away from me. screw you, i'll do something else, i'm saying in the business, you're not putting an end to me. >> why do you love it so much? why are you so connected? >> all i ever wanted to done my eyes opened and first thing i thought of when i could put thoughts together i want nobody show business, never wanted anything else. i used to sneak into the costume room at my nursery school and smell the costumes. say, oh, i want to be in this, i want to be in this. >> i was moved, and i mean

genuinely moved, when i learned of an experience your mother exposed you to because i regard paul robeson as -- >> nobody knows who we're talking about. >> my point. i regard him as the most unheralded, underappreciated, undervalued, unsung, the renaissance man on stage. >> paul robeson, one of the great -- >> best -- >> african-american singers, actors. >> lawyer, rhodes scholar, football play, all american. >> player othello, broke every barrier and became a communist. you're coming out of a bad time in black america, of course. i get it. i get it. and i knew, he was a friend of my aunt's, the lawyer who said, paul, go out there and tell them you're a communist. at the height of his life he said, i'm a communist. guess what?

threw him out of america. terrible, terrible, terrible. and by the time they brought him back, he was very old. very sad. >> your mother took you to see him. >> took me to see him. >> when you were a kid. >> yeah. >> what did that experience do for you? >> he was amazing. i went again into his dressing room and smelling the smells and seeing the backstage and being part of that, i knew this where i belonged. no question, this is where i have to be. >> people are discovering in part because of your book and the wonderful documentary. >> i had nothing to do with it. >> it was amazing. you had a lot to do with. it was amazing. people are discovering comedy wasn't your first love. you wanted to be an actress. >> we all are. any comic is a very good actor. look at don rickles, he's saying the same joke every night for 20 years. making it look like he just

thought of. hey, that's acting. so kathy griffin wants to be an actress, sarah silverman. i'm going back in november to the national theater in washington and i'm doing a play reading. i want to go back. i've been on broadway three times, i want to go back. my bucket lisp three things on my bucket list, go back to the stage, mare are you a wealthy jewish man who is about to die, and his last thing is, give joan everything. and my third is go on a boat somewhere, have a boat. fabulous. >> why go back to the stage when by your own admission, acting is your first love, but there have been moments where you've had issues with the way that you were reviewed or treated. >> yes. >> on stage. why go back again? >> because there's nothing like

live performing. and i'm a new york girl. i come out of new york theater. to me, coming out of the subway with my mother looking up, that was the first thing i got. okay, you know, here we go again. to be in new york to go into a theater and go backstage and they say hello to you is a dressing room for you, this is not tragic. this is not tragic. i was in judi dench's dressing room when i performed my own show in england. i kept thinking, judi dench was in here, lawrence olivier, lawrence olivier used that toilet, that's it. constipated for months after that. >> so that your comedy ends up developing as a way to give life to the acting careers that you're trying to get off the

ground. but who told you you were funny? how did you know you could do this in. >> i think, truly think, comedy is -- being funny is dna. my dad was a doctor, and a wonderful doctor, people come up to me today, your father helped my mother die, you know what i'm saying? he made her laugh until she died my father was very funny, my sister arc lawyer, very smart, youngest columbia graduate of law school. she won the cases because she was funny, made the jury laugh, smart as hell. >> laughter works. if you can make them laugh, you can make them listen. >> i wanted to be an actress. i knew i wasn't that pretty or this or that i would make secretaries laugh. if the secretary liked you, she would bring you into the agent. and one secretary said to me -- everybody in the office was a temporary in those days -- you should do comedy, make $6 a night. do comedy. you're funny $6 a night? more than i'm making as an office temporary, that's how i

started with comedy. it was just little did i know how difficult it is, but in the beginning it was an easy way to make money. and you'd pass the hat, greenwich village, hat wouldn't come back some nights. but you'd pass the hat. >> you said three or four things. >> so sorry. >> good stuff coming out of your mouth. let me start with this. how did you develop your own comedic style because you're not just another comedian, you're a woman comedian, you've got to have your own voice, that thumbprint on your throat. how did you develop this irreverent joan rivers style. >> i never thought about it. some of my friends think about what that going to do. flip wilson was very -- these are the guys i started with -- knew every line, george carlin said, this is how i'll do it.

rodney danger field, said i'll find a phrase "i don't get no respect" i went out and talked. i said talk as if you're talking to a friend sitting next to you. to this day all my comedy that is one friend and i guess that's the irreverence. if you and i go to dinner, we have two glasses of wine, i'll say, let me tell you another thing, that's what my comedy is. i get angry that people are so uptight these days, people -- you can't say this, you can't say that. oh, stop it! laugh at it and move on. >> when you said earlier, joan, you think comedy's in your democratic na, it may be, but i've never seen anybody who works as hard as you do to push out these jokes. you're writing -- when i saw that documentary, in your office that huge wall of all of the -- y've cataloged on index cards every joke you've ever written last 50 years. >> i wish i've cataloged 1/16 of

every joke. >> a big wall with a lot of cards. >> you think, where are all of the jokes i haven't -- i work -- i just did -- i just -- i just did "the talk" today. you know, ladies sitting and talking. >> right. >> i better make sure i know what i'm going to talk about. i always prepare. always prepare. >> you're writing jokes everywhere. >> everywhere i go. writing jokes. funny to said on a nude beach i never go on a nude beach, takes too longs to get ready, hours and hours to pluck my nipples. >> there it is. >> there it is. try it out. try it out. >> but that also, that also remind me that there are a lot of great comics who have staffs, staffs of people who help write their stuff. it's like you. >> well, no, no, i have "fashion police," we have producers that will give you ideas, give you ideas.

and always saying, please send me the joke, it's one less joke i have to think of, you know? because otherwise you sit around all day long going, oh my god. so, i -- i bounce a lot with friends. i have a couple of friends that are very good i'll get on the phone and we'll laugh. i wrote this book with a friend, a friend named larry amarose, ad-libbed back and forth. you think this is funny? i can't think, i have to talk it out. >> what do you make of the response to the book "diary of a mad diva"? >> well, first of all, "people" magazine picked it number one. >> "people" magazine, number one for summer reading. >> unbelievable. we're all over the place. people took it seriously. how stupid can you be to take a book -- and the first page in there, a disclaimer. it's a three-paragraph funny disclaimer. saying that i mistake my daughter melissa for the actor laurence fishburne. now, if you don't know that's a funny book, i say if you don't like it call my lawyer, i mean,

it's so stupid. and then kristin stewart's lawyer called my lawyer and they wanted the book removed from the stores or a public apology. they have since withdrawn. >> what -- what does that say as a comic? what does that say to you about the sensitive nature of our comedic pallet these days? >> it says two things. a lot of our stars are stupid. and it also says, everyone calm down. comics are here to make you laugh, that's the only reason we're here. you don't like it, move on. bill cosby, who gave me my first break in the business he said to me years ago, if .1%, .1% of america thinks you're funny, he said you'll fill stadiums for the rest of your life, so don't worry.

you can't worry what everyone's going to think. always going to be somebody that says, that's not funny. you know what? don't go and see me. >> since you raised cosby's name -- >> i love cosby. >> a black man gives a white woman this break. i've heard you get in people's faces, a little testy, a legitimate complaint, you make a joke about it, women say you've opened up doors for all of us and you say, i'm still opening up doors. >> damn right. >> push back on people who try to push you out to pasture. >> totally. >> i've never heard you complain publicly about what you had to endure as a woman on the stage. >> i never found it as a woman. i was so busy trying to get ahead, it's also a big crutch. oh, i'm a woman and that's why they don't laugh at me. stop it! you know what i mean? if you're funny -- hitler, as i said before if hitler came back with three good minutes, they'd say, you know he's changed, he's grown, he's matured.

fabulous dancer. it's not about -- it's funny, it's funny. we take it as a crutch i never thought about women -- looking back, however, the group that i sat with when we were all trying to get on the stage in the bitter end was bill, who went through first, there was george carlin, richard pryor, me, rodney, woody. and i was the last one to get through. and looking back i thought maybe it was because i was a woman, you know? but at the time it never occurred to me. never occurred to me. and so, looking back, maybe they did used to say things like, a woman shouldn't say that. i ignored it. what are you going to do? you know, you do what you're going to do. but i think women -- i think it's a time for women -- women now rule, amy poehler.

>> tina fey. >> tina fey. all of them coming up. >> you take any pride in that? >> none. >> none at all? >> i'm fighting for my life. every time my good friend kathy griffin gets a job, i don't. isn't that a crime? i go around saying kathy griffin's not so good. you think she's funny? >> did you -- >> she's very funny. >> she's very funny. in retrospect, did you think you made the right decision doing the comedy central roast? >> i did the comedy central roast -- there because they paid you. >> because they paid me. it was a very nice check. >> yeah. >> it was a great check. the comedy roast, i thought was stupid in a way. watch, i'll never work again for comedy central. i said you know they're going to do jokes. here we go, face-lifts, plastic surgery, they're going to do jokes on age. they're going to do jokes on the

jewelry. come on, guys, you know? i didn't feel it would be very fresh. but they got great ratings. i loved my rebuttal, i worked very hard on the rebuttal, i was proud of than good rebuttal. >> to your point now, how hard have you had to work or do you still have to work in your comedy at not being predictable, given the point you made about the comedy central roast it was so predictable? >> i don't think about it. what i find is that i'm -- i think i've got add, which is good. i want the latest things. i do -- i work in a little place in new york every week when i'm home and it holds 125 people, and it's called the west bank cafe. teeny, i can't wait to get on and talk about what just happened. so i'm not predictable because i'm talking about what's current. i'm not interest in plastic surgery. the last plastic surgery six

years ago, enough, who cares? let's talk about whatever the thing is to talk about right now. >> since you raised the plastic surgery thing, earlier in the conversation you made note -- it's not the first time you've done it, you've done it in your books and other work -- that you never had any illusion that you were some gorgeous -- >> ruff! >> i was trying to be charitable and kind. >> illusion. my problem with my cousin, she didn't want to take me, it was horrible. >> how did -- but there's -- you obviously -- you've got comfortable with whatever your look is, it didn't bother you, you got comfortable. >> it bothers you, every day. i'm up 15 pounds i can't stand to look, ew. i'm old. you work with what you got. i never had any illusions. men never went, oh, i want to meet her! unless i had a checkbook in my hand.

>> i wonder -- i wonder if that was a blessing in the sense that it -- >> that's a lovely thing to say. lovely thing to say. >> makes people focus on your gift. >> oh, what would you rather be? okay, you, or the most handsome, sexy, fabulous, great-looking stud in the world? when you walk in a room, every woman would go, tavis, hello, you know what i mean? you work with what you got. you're a good looking man, i'm not saying you're not. i would remember have been tall and amazing looking. oh my god, she's an animal. >> that's my point, though. >> i wouldn't have been funny. >> you might have been funny but you might not have gotten respect. you look like halle berry, how does your gift really -- your comedic -- >> you wonder if halle berry is funny in private. nicole kidman is hilarious. how about that one? >> she has it all, then.

>> yeah. i sat next to her at one academy award one year and we were sitting and something happened and she started to tell me joke, you go, she's funny. >> yeah. >> i couldn't believe it, sitting here is nicole kidman and take a look to the left, check out the guy to the right, she's hilarious. you want to be friends with them. the flip side of nicole kidman story whether or not after all of the year you have been doing this, it's annoying of people coming up to trying to be funny. >> it's sweet. they give you a joke. here's one you can use, and it's usually three rabbis and a eunuch, that's good. good. good joke. thank you. people always think they're

going to be funny with me. >> speaking of audiences, what have you learned that you can share with me, with us, about the way you handle, because you're brilliant, the way you handle hecklers on stage? what have you learned about handling hecklers on stage you can share with us about how to handle the haters in our own lives. >> ignore it. hecklers, i don't put up with it. i once saw sinatra, when i was opening in vegas, my husband used to say, go see one of the headliners, he was so smart. as an opening act you get time to run across the street see the headliner. headliners know it. sinatra took no prisoners. you're talking, you know what? here's the mike, i'll be back when you're out. i do that with hecklers. we're not doing a double here. so very -- i'm probably answered the question the wrong way for you. i don't allow hecklers. you allow one thing to say to me and then you must be quiet or

you're out. so -- >> that documentary -- >> that happened. that was so sad. >> it was sad. but -- >> so sad. >> it was sad, but the way -- i was -- i mean, i enjoyed -- i loved. i referenced it three times, i loved the documentary. >> so sweet the part i loved to watch you at your genius when this guy comes at you -- i played that thing back three times to see how fast you turned that crowd. within less than two minutes, you got checked this guy, gone on to another joke, calmed the audience down, less then two minutes. >> very sad. he shouldn't have come to see me and he took something seriously that he shouldn't have because the way it affected his life. >> right. >> and we shut him up, very fast, and i shut him up, i say you don't know what you're talking about, you know. i -- my mother ended up blind, don't talk to me by b. blind. >> the joke was deaf. >> i made my mother deaf.

>> you flipped it. >> whatever she had to be. >> right. >> my mother was deaf! no, i wasn't. i was losing my eyesight. shhh. and blah, blah, blah. it's my job to make the audience relax. >> yeah. >> it's my job to bring them back in quickly as possible. last year, i always say get six gay guys in front and i can do it. gay men in an audience. >> that's all you need. >> all you need. >> i've got a few more questions for joan rivers. if i can do that, tomorrow night part ii. new book "diary of a mad diva," "people" magazine saying it's the best summer read. it is funny. i can guarantee you that. we'll continue the conversation tomorrow night with the one and only joan rivers. you'll stick around a few more minutes? >> i have one jacket. >> that's fine. >> i have one suit.

until next time, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavissmiley@pbs.org. >> hi, i'm tavis smiley, join knee next time for night ii of our conversation with the incomparable joan rivers, next time. we'll see you then.

and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. be more, pbs. >> be more, pbs.

tonight on "quest" -- people have been riding bicycles for nearly 200 years. but we still don't understand why they work so well. not just one thing explains how the bicycle behaves. meet engineers searching for the answer to a surprisingly complex question -- exactly how are we able to balance on a bike? and mark twain's famed jumping frog of calaveras county may be hopping towards extinction. what's really alarming, something like 40% of all known amphibians are threatened with some level of extinction. see how scientists are working to save these frogs and other endangered amphibians. support for "quest" is