good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. tonight a week long celebration of acclaimed dancers. as you may have heard, earlier, i made my debut as a cast member of "dancing with the stars" for their 19th season. long before i was asked to join the show i have been a fan of dancers and looked forward to conversations with these exceptional artists. we begin with, a conversation with a great dancer, judith jamison, and a director of alvin ailey. then, a conversation with robert battle. took over for judith jamison, joined by the leading dancer, alicia graf mack. glad you have joined us for those conversations. coming up right now.

♪ ♪ and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. before we start tonight's first conversation with judith jamison. i said earlier i'm doing "dancing with the stars" a few years back, quincy jones teased me about my dancing ability or lack there of.

and some footage of me dancing. he said if he ever puts it out. i will lose my black card. i think that's rolling around on the internet. quincy, judith jamison said every one of us can dance even me. when we sat down, i began asking her, what is it about dance that makes us feel like we can virtually float out of the theater? >> you are born moving. no, no, no, no, no, no! >> no, no, no, no! we can stop, judith. we cannot all do what i saw them brothers and sisters do. >> they're well trained. they're educated here and here. you know? >> see that right there. that camera. i can't do that. >> yes, you can. >> yes, you can. >> we had 6,000 children on the square doing parts of revelations because of our revelations curriculum program we do with children. you can do that. come on now. come on now.

you can raise those arms to the side. thank you. you are in the middle of it. what you asked me in the first place. why? because we all, we are all doing this. from the moment you are born. you are doing this. you know, you come out of the womb. you are doing this. and the reason we know you are alive, your mouth opens, so your vocal chords could move. so you could then go, ah. right? uh-huh. what you are doing is just, ah. and were there a lot of ahs going on. yes, hallelujahs going on in the audience. somebody got up and kicked their leg up in the middle of one of the pieces and applaused. you kn -- and applauded. the idea dance can move people here in this country. we are cultural ambassadors for our country. the idea that you are there in a theater, in a live performance. what your eyes can do and go where nay want they want to go. where they go is to the heart and soul of the dancer. we are dancing from here.

from inside. not from outside. you, can look at anybody, kick their leg up and do a million pirouettes and tricks and stuff like that. that's not what dance is really about. i have been to countries like brazil and africa, where people, 80 years old are dancing. my oldest student is 70-something, my youngest is 2. at the center in new york city. you have been to. the largest dedicated dance building. we built it. we own it. we have an endowment for it. everybody comes there. everybody, the ailey official school there. ailey, alvin ailey dancers. 40,000 people registered to come after they have done to do their 9:00 to 5:00er, come in, do salsa, samba, or horton technique, ballad. people want to move. they want to get that out. you know? >> we are there to help them

diet. >> what got me this time in a way, that hadn't before, because i'm aging, the music choices. tell me about the music choices that makes it -- >> right. go from handel, then to steve reich, and then to spiritual, in one evening. that's one roller coaster ride. and that's the idea. for me, the idea in my experience as a dancer with alvin. i experienced core graf ed choe. you haved full menu of dance. and you had the had the full idea of what it is to be a whole person. because you can't go on stage and not tell the truth. you know what i am saying. you can't. you can tell somebody whether they're being phony on stage. you can tell. why go through that. dancing is hard enough. what you are viewing is, this truth. this truth about what we feel

about ourselves as human beings. >> how do you get to that part? help me understand the process for, for teaching them, for helping them to connect to the truth. beyond the technique. before the technique. >> well you have got to. one thing, to become a member of the alvin ailey dance center you have to walk in with several techniques under your belt. you have to go to school. no such thing as a dumb dancer. this is moving this. and your heart and your love of it. you have to be -- educated. you cannot come in uneducated. we have a university where you can get a degree. but what i do with young people is, ask them, what do you want? what are you out there for? what are you doing it for? just to show off? is that what you are doing it? that's why you are dancing? if that is all it is, fine, that is okay. you are allowed to do that. what are you going to do, throwing up your legs, kicking, turning, spinning.

you can't do that. why are you doing this? and if you could ask yourself that question -- and understand that this is all about giving, and not about taking, then you got your answer. as soon as the artist, as soon as the dancer, as soon as the pupil understands all this hard work is about giving. and giving back. >> let me, let me raise something that may be uncomfortable for some. i know it is not for you. you can handle this. as the i sat in the audience, watching this performance, it made me, unapologetically. it made me proud to be a black man. >> thank you. thank you. >> unapologetically. the company is filled with people who are presidenot black. a beautiful thing. looking at the stage. looking at all the white folks in the audience, sitting around me. i talked to during intermission. talked to after the show. had a great time all of us together. i am thinking, feeling this

pride, in black culture, that everybody else seems to revel in. am i okay to feel that way? i am okay then. >> absolutely okay. alvin started the company that celebrates the african-american cultural expression and experience and modern dance tradition of our country. african-americans have always been all inclusive. his embrace was very wide and broad. he didn't care if you are polka dot, green, orange, whatever. didn't make a difference. however it was imperative for people of color, black people to have a job when he started this company in 1958, with seven dancers now. i have 31. we're diverse. our diversity is so important to us. not just on the stage. but also -- in the audience. but his being specific about the african-american cultural expression and experience made this a universal experience. we are all human beings. that's why we are understood all over the world.

his genius as far as approaching dance as being a human expression and that we can be proud of the culture that we have as african-americans. this is our country. right. we are african-americans. why not celebrate that. also, celebrate our diversity. and our generosity. >> you mentioned earlier in this conversation. knowing who you are. what you are about. because there will come the time when you can't kick, leap, jump, twist, turn, do all the stuff you used to do the way you used to do it. how did judith jamison navigate coming out of the space where you couldn't do that and no longer could diet the wo it the used to? >> there has been a path for me from the beginning of my life. god has had a path for me. believe he has had a path for me. i have been in right place, right time. not because of my effort. but because of my preparation.

because of the guide that i have. the mentors that i have. the spiritual walkers that i have had all my life. these transitions this is not a surprise i am direct ore of the alvin ailey american dance theater, that i danced 15 years for, that alvin ailey did cry for me. kind of a surprise. the curtain came down. people started applauding like crazy, i didn't get it. so all of this, someone go out, it just wasn't me at the time. i could say now at 66, yeah, i was a fabulous dancer. i was really terrific. you know? but i was always present. i was present. i was supposed to be where i was supposed to be at the time i was supposed to be. just like i am talking to you right now. i wanted to be on your show forever. here i am. finally talking to you. well this was a set of circumstances that, i want my hand off of it. this is coming directly done to me. you know? i believe -- in being -- prepared. i am going to say that, pray,

prepare, proceed. >> i got you. >> judith jamison has a heart full of grace and a soul generated by love on top of her awesome talent. and artistic eye. it is always an honor to be in her presence and especially to have her on this program. glad to have you here. >> thanks. >> a tricky balance, honoring the past, by making sure the alvin ailey dance theater is relevant and inventive. that's what, robert battle and alicia graf mack. let's take a look at the artistry, alicia graf mack dancing in "petite morte" translation "little death." ♪ ♪

>> i leaned into alicia during the clip and asked her, is it just me or are you pretty tall? and you said -- >> i am very tall for a dancer. >> for a dancer, yeah. >> i am lucky. alvin ailey had a history of very tall women, including ms. jamison herself. >> i asked robert does it matter who you put her with, because of height. a brother could be intimidated. thousand of folks watching. and you are 5'4", you dance, how do you do that? >> well you know all in the casting.

we always make sure. luckily we have some tall, fabulous men in the company. who are able to handle that and not be sort of hidden behind her. of course, screwed it jamis -- of course, judith jamison. was a trail blazer. >> he had a bed like an athlete. he was -- had a bed like an athlete. >> sort of started out as an athlete. of course here in los angeles. i believe, 1949, where carmen delabala, the great dancer introduced to lester horton and his studio. it started here. >> it started here. >> this is not surprise me. if she is watching, hi, judith. you know i love her. we are three minutes into a

conversation. i asked a question about judith. her name has come up three times. already it goes to show her the impact. on the company. we last saw each other. we were inside new york city. just named director of the company. almost two years, since i saw you last. i am going to ask, alicia, this question, have you plug your ears, in just a second. but you get to go first. how do you think you are doing? >> i think i am doing pretty good. more importantly, judith jamison thinks i am doing an excellent job. that alone sort of centers me. no, i feel i have been having a lot of fun. and audiences, kricritics have shown up. coming from city center season. a record breaking season. i think that is an example of sort of what we are doing. taking the company into the future. while still celebrating the past. and so that's what judy chose me to do. and that's what i am doing. >> the two of us, not the millions watching, just you and me, has it been intimidating from any point from the time it was announced up until now,

trying to come behind judith jamison. >> i wouldn't say it last year. i was fryitrying to be cool. >> yeah, of course, judith jamison, alvin ailey, icon, legacy, yes, i knew i would be okay. we cam fre from the tradition. when elders say you will be all right. you are standing on shoulders. i center myself with faith. faith in that. and faith in people who have gone before. here i am. >> plug your ears now. all right, alicia. here we go. with, with, slightly different twist on that. i said many times on this program, beyond, it changed, is it true, life across the board. the change is inevitable. growth is optional. change inevitable. growth is optional. tell me about the change, under robert battle's leadership. >> there has been some change.

because robert has his own unique vision of where he would like to see the company. yet it is still, feels like, we are pushing into the future using alvin ailey's vision as the foundation. so i think that's most important. but actually just like the ballad that we saw -- ballet that we saw, "petite morte" he has chosen excellent ballets. and pushed me as a dancer to test my boundaries to see what i am capable of doing. just in this one season we have done contemporary, hip-hop, and more based in african dance, so for me, that's just been, incredible. and also chosen some really amazing dancers. to, to be part of our team. and so, they pushed me as well. >> why is that important to you, to be so, eclectic, in what you are asking the company to do? >> the motion, i love what maya angelou said "everything in the

universe has rhythm. everything dances." >> i think this company reflect the universality of every person. being an american dance company, alvin ailey american dance theater. to me the notion is anything is possible we are only limited by our imagination. and we have people like anteen price, alvin ailey, so many people who have exemplified that universality. should be reflected on the stage. >> you walked in. told you, from "the new york times," i love his work, piece on the internet, five-six-minute piece. beautiful piece, bill did with you about the athletic nature what it takes to be a dancer. being a sports columnist really trying how to get at the similarities and the differences between the dancer and athlete which i thought was a wonderful way to get into the conversation. in the course of that i came to discover you have come back, what, two, three times now from

injuries, and you were side lined in your career. so, kobe, take note. there is hope. there is hope. alicia did it three times. you can come back once, kobe. so talk to me about what you had to endure and the love that, apparently, i assume it was the love that kept bringing you back? >> yes, i have definitely suffered from devastating injuries. mainly cartilage tears. and the discovery that i had an auto immune disorder that makes inflammation in my body. so for a dancer, that, that can be very difficult. so the first time i left i was 21 years old. i was at the peak of getting to the peak of my career. and dancing in harlem. when i was injured. not able to come back. i was completely devastated. i ended up studying at columbia university, trying to make career transition, a life for myself. figure out what i was good at. and i realized that, really, i'm a dancer. that's what i want to do. that's what i have been brought

here on this earth to do. i believe that it is my calling. in a way. and -- actually, kind of feel like a story where carmen delabala saw alvin ailey pulled him into the world of dance. actually she saw me during a rehearsal, she said "you know what, you can be a banker, you can do anything later. but look at the talent you have. you should be dancing now. your time is never promised." i took those word to heart. and i actually, auditioned for alvin ailey, got in. that's how my career at alvin ailey started. >> what do you make of the fact that here is a company that features african-american dancers, started by an african-american man, run for years, by an african woman. now run by an african-american man. made inroads, people of all cultures, creed, that support the work you do with a white woman chairing your board? >> uh-huh. uh-huh. i think the notion is, i love

this other quote too. "i am a human being, nothing human can be alien to me." when you look at revelations created by mr.ai ley in 1960, tip didn't appeal to people who perhaps experienced the black church. but people all over the world who have never met some one who happens to be of color. so the universal work language reflects the universal work of the come paepany stays alost. the strength of the company. and why after 50 years we are still relevant. >> give me some sense, robert, you think, two years in, what you think you want your legacy to be with regard to the kinds of stuff you've introducing the company to? >> i think for me it is very simple. i mean -- dance for me -- has given my life such meaning. from the moment i saw the company in miami.

saw a student performance. performance for a student. and look at what happened to me. and i know the quotient is that it was about inspiration. alvin ailey, company inspired me. and with that inspiration there is nothing i can't do. what i would hope is that -- when it is all said and done, that somebody says the same thing. something that i did chose, said, inspired them to live a fuller life. if i can have that, then, i'll be be just fine. >> alicia says you are pushing the company with the kind of stuff you are introducing can you speak to that the kind of stuff you are putting on the docket pushing the company? >> yeah, i just go by what i like. but i also, my last name is battle. so, already you know i am already, ready to push folks. right. to be honest. i also like the element of surprise. that to me is the fun of it.

but also the thrill of it. we see works that -- one would not expect to see the company do. and within that element of surprise, really, to me it is about past present future. always having those three things represented. and finding work that i feel represents that. >> i have asked artists before, whether or not, there is ever a time in, in the career, when you get tired of playing the same song. because when your fans come to hear you. they want to hear no matter what else you want to give them. no matter what mr. battle has thrown on the docket, in the sequence. they want to hear this, see this. does "revelations" ever feel old to you? >> no. no. >> yeah. >> "revelations" for me is the piece that drew me to want to dance for alvin ailey when i was a kid. i think most of the dancers would say the same thing they saw that image. they wanted to work for alvin ailey at some point.

but also for me it's like, more than a dance, it's kind of, a prayer or meditation. and -- it is always new or fresh every time that we can, we can, you know, be able to perform it. and -- i don't always have the same part in "revelations." some times i hold the umbrella. sometimes i do the six stages of duet, some times i do the core role. every night can be different. and the energy is always different too. >> yeah. >> got a minute to go here. this may or may not be a fair question to ask, robert. does it matter to you when your days at the company are many years, will it matter if there is a signature piece, revelat n revelations, that they do for the next 50 years that you brought to them? >> it does not. as long as the company is where it should be. doing well. thriving. this of course for me is not a sprint it is a marathon.

i don't know. what that will be. but i am not worried about it. i think about revelations, think about, i have another take on it. this is the jgeneration what wa new two hours ago is old now. when we think of revelations in 1960, we think about it sort of when we think of beethoven or something look that. you know what i mean? you have to measure it that way. not really that old. the civil rights movement was so long ago. i am like, "not really." i think that work represents a part of our american history. yes, the same song. but we know if we forget that song, we, we will go back to it in a way that is not good. so that it is a way to remind us of our history. stow we won't repeat it. >> never get old for me. glad you are in l.a. coming this way, seems like once a year. and we are always awaiting their arrival. i keep praying one of my, tenth sea son of doing this show,

almost 2,000 shows now. one of my dreams is one day to have a stage big enough where i can do an interview with you and the company dancing throughout the show. that's like a dream i have. this place isn't quite big u.n. i will work on that in the next ten years. robert, good to have you alicia. thank you. alvin ailey. i love him. and keep the faith. >> for more on the show, visit tavissmiley.org. >> hi, ichl's'm tavissmilie joi next time. we'll see you then.

and by contributions to your pbs station by viewers like you. thank you.

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