good evening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley. first a conversation tonight with matt bai. and the former chief political corespondent for "the new york times" magazine, about his new text, all the truth is out. the week politics went tabloid. it takes a close look at gary hart's 1978 campaign for the presidency. a campaign that was of course derailed when reports of marital infidelity became front page news. and ushered in the era of goch-ya journalism. then we'll turn to a conversation with singer and song writer kandace springs. she has captured the attention of music heavy weights like prince. she was signed to blue note labels. she will close with a song she co-wrote "forbidden truth."

that's coming up right now. we're glad you joined us. ♪ >> announcer: and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. sneak. ♪ back in 1987 former senator

gary hart seemed a shoe-in for the presidential nomination until rumors of infidelity were on the newspapers. the press frenzy derailed hart's political aspirations and ushered in a new era of goch-ya journalism. matt bai has written a poem about this "titled" all the truth is out. the week politics went tabloid. he is the national political columnist for yahoo news. the first thing i thought when i saw this book come across my desk, with all due respect to gary hart, what would have happened had they asked this very same questions of fdr, jfk, i could do this all night. >> yeah. theodore white, the most experienced presidential politics in the 20th century said he knew of three candidates

that didn't have adulteries on the road. you know, as you say, look, if you went back -- we can go back and ask -- look at franklin roosevelt and john kennedy and johnson and decide they're moshlly deficient character and shouldn't be allowed to serve bhach will you do about getting through the great depression and world war ii and the cuban missile crisis and the great society. we have to bring some context to these things. not all lies are the same. this was a moment where as an industry and as a country, we began to lose context around this because we started treating politicians more like celebrities. >> paul taylor of the washington post asked gary hart that fateful question, was that question out of bounds? >> have you ever committed adultery. it felt to a lot of journalists that it were out of bounds. now it was common place. the first thing that happens before that famous news conference, tough hillary clinton of his day, he is 20

points ahead of other democrats, pinned up against a brick wall behind his town nous a white hoodie late at night while reporters from the miami harold surround him and say, senator who is that woman in your house and have you had sex with that woman? what i found going back to this story is that everything we remembered about it turns out to be wrong. the photo didn't drive him out. it came three weeks after. the follow me around challenge he issued to the press wasn't actually public. no one knew about it when he was put under surveillance by "the miami herald." there's a lot that we misrepresented. what it's done is obscure a shift in the culture. >> for those who have been interested in justifying it say it's not about the question, it's about the lie. you can't separate the two. but how do you respond to those who say, well, he lied. he tried to cover something up and that's what drove him out, not the adultery, so to speak. >> well, it is interesting to know when he's asked that

question, have you ever committed adultery, he says i don't think that's a fair question. he doesn't say no. a fair person can look at it and conclude he lied about in general having affairs. he was twice separated from his wife. he dated a lot. he did not think that this was anybody's business or an issue. this is a question you get, one of the reporters involved in this has since written about the book and he says, he faults me for saying there's such a thing as an inconsequential lie, i don't think all lies have consequence. i think honest people are dishonest at times. moral people can do immoral things. all i'm really saying is that character for most of the life of the nation encompass something much broader. have you taken money from donors to take certain votes. have you ducked tough decisions. have you told people the truth about hard decisions. you have to judge the character of a person in the totality of who they are. in the public record, nobody had any evidence of gary hart being a liar then or now. >> does that mean then that we

should be comfortable as american citizens with some level of inconsequential lie on the part of our elected officials? >> we have to be compassionate. >> we want the politician, the president the executive who has this john sewn yan persuasive pow who are can forge consensus and drive the agenda. we just want that forcefulness to get turned off the minute he goes home. right? we want that personality completely bottled up in the political not in the personal. it doesn't work that way as bill clinton showed us, right? people with large ideas and visions often have flawed personalities in different ways. so i think -- you know, i think you can't judge someone -- bob carrey, the former senator said to me, we're not the worst things we've ever done in our lives. there's a tendency to think that we are. we have created a process where you are defined by the worst

moment of your public or private life. i don't think it served the country well in terms of the kind of leaders we bring in or keep in the process. >> what's the price that we have paid as a society for all the weeks since this week when politics went tabloid? >> oh, well, i think -- you know, look, the book really goes to the story of this moment of how it reverberates through the years, both through the years of the life of the country and also in the life of this man and his family who is a fascinating, compelling character. i mean, i think we've driven certainly a bunch of people out of politics who had service to offer like hart and wasn't allowed to because he gets caught in this moment. we've kept a lot of people on the sidelines who don't want to inflict that process on their family, to subject their family to that kind of invasiveness and scrutiny, but i also think -- this gets overlooked. i think you actually open the door for a lot of people who probably should not hold public office to do so. when you're not talking about agendas and world views and focussed on these character

issues and hypocrisy issues, it is allowed for people to escape through because they're clean enough. they might not know anything about government and we see that in washington a lot. >> clean but stupid, my words but not yours. >> uninformed. >> that's a better word, uninformed. >> that's why you're a journalist and i'm a silly talk show host. you said that much better than i said. does -- do you think the media rite large, this is an impossible question but i'll ask it any way, the political media rite large has any regret opening that can ofs? >> i think a lot of people had real kwaqualms about it. what happened other the years we have the metabolism is faster,

twitter, facebook, the daily news cycle became an hourly news cycle, minute by minute, by the time i step off this set there will be a new news story. i went back and was fascinated by him and the story, fascinated by the things that we didn't know that we got wrong, what i wanted to tell was people a page turner of a story but i alsom want us to reflect a little bit. i've done this a while. i've covered four presidential campaigns. i think we've lost the part of your judgment that we need to apply in of the of these situations. we said, well, it's out there. we have to do it. other people do it. we're carried down the stream. i think we get to make choices, we're not carried downstream. >> as a journalist, what was most arresting for you personally about what we got wrong about this gary hart story? >> that's an interesting question. i mean, there's a lot. i think the follow me around idea because that is so embedded in the culture.

if you ask anybody who remembers, gary hart said, go ahead, put a tail on me, you would be bored. that's not what happened. he said it to one reporter. it was not -- neither he nor the reporter thought it was a challenge. it was an exaspirated comment. there's a tip that comes into "the miami herald." he meets this woman. they don't have that quote when they start reporting that story and then put him under surveillance. it actually comes out at the same time as their story. and because they then used -- they took the quote from an advanced copy of the new york times magazine and put it in their story, people have always confused the chronology. the reason why that's so significant, the consequence of that story is that gary hart changed all the rules. he invited us into his bedroom. we came and now we're in the bedroom of all politicians and it's all his fault. he paid a very heavy price for that. the truth of the matter is that we, "the miami herald," but we as an industry made a decision in that moment to treat politicians differently, more

like celebrities and entertainers. there were a lot of things happening in the couldture. it would happen whether it was gary hart or "the miami herald" or not. we never had to answer for it. >> i'm glad you said that. this question may sound naive or stupid but i'll ask any way, why what do you make of the fact that gary hart pays a huge price but those who have tabloidized our news have paid no price essenti essentially? >> there's nothing naive about that. when he gets that question from paul taylor, have you ever committed adultery and he looks out at the reporters he's known because they covered his 1984 presidential campaign when he very nearly won the nomination, he knows who has been having affairs with whom, he knows which married reporters have been spending time with other married reporters, and they're looking at him so angry and so expectedly, they're demanding the truth and the hypocrisy catches him up short and he

freezes in that moment. look, i think there's a higher burden for someone who wants to hold office. i do believe that. but at the same time, you know, again, i go back to this point, we don't -- we want to be judged in the totality of who we are. but we want to judge politicians through a much narrower, simpler, scandal-driven cruci e crucible. it's created such a distance and mistrust and we don't know very much about the people running for office and don't know much about what they believe. >> this is not gary hart's book, but how has gary hart, all these years to your research, at least, come to terms with what happened to him? >> it's been very hard. just this week it's been announced that he will be secreta secretary kerry's envoy. it's been hard. he was a little wounded. i think he was not allowed to serve. he was not given a break. he was trapped in this moment. in those days 1987 when johnny

carson made fun of you, you became a joke and it was very hard to get past that. i think the question -- it's a difficult question, but the question we need to ask ourselves to some extent is how we're going to define character, because hart goes away for 27 years and says it's none of your business. he doesn't do the tell-all and come on your show and weep. he doesn't emote, he doesn't beg for forgiveness. he says this is nobody's business and i'll retain my dignity and walk away from the process. on the other hand, people will do anything, bring their wife before the cameras and they get another chance. which is indicative of the kind of character you want in a leader the guy who has to walk away and be shamed in the eyes of society, when we may in hart's words in 1987, we might get the leaders we deserve. >> wow. >> the book is called "all the truth is out" the week politics went tabloid written by a brilliant writer who i read every time i see his name on anything, matt bai. now over at yahoo.

matt, good to have you on this program. >> thank you. proud of this book. >> you should be. congratulations on it, my friend. coming up, kandace springs. first a conversation and a performance. stay with us. ♪ kandace springs, bridges old school values with innovative styles and makes it all sound good. she was recently signed to blue note records and just released a self title "ep" with four songs and provides listeners a good example of that what they can expect. song writer as well as a singer. she will close our show with one of her own songs called "forbidden fruit." i'm honored to have you on my program. >> thank you so much. >> i'll treasure this tape for years to come because i sense that you're going to be around for a long while. >> thank you so much. >> yeah. >> thank you. >> how much of that goes into

your thinking, into your song writing, into your styling the notion that you do want to be around, that you don't want to be sort of flash in the pan so to speak? >> so much. that's why i grew up -- it's been inside of me. i want to bring back that old soul music. come out of nowhere, has that timeless sound that everybody is familiar with. >> tell me about your dad and the role that he played to influence your career, your musical career. >> my dad is a professional singer in nashville -- scat springs. he is hilarious. the guy can flow, man. he had so much influence on me. aretha franklin, all the greats. he had me listen to them. he's been a huge influence on me, helping me figure out who i am, a singer, r&b and all that good stuff, soul. good stuff. >> i think i know what you mean. he helped you figure out who you are as a singer. what do you mean? how does one go about figures out who they are as a singer, particularly at your young age?

>> well, some of the artists that he would give to me -- aretha and stuff like that, lauryn hill, erica badue, just listening to them, helped me develop a sound later on as i was growing up. and i kind of made up my own original sound after playing around with the piano and stuff. >> i think every artist if they're willing honest will admit to you that when they start, they're all borrowing and copying from somebody. you have to do that until you figure out who you are, to your point. >> absolutely. >> and what your sound is. how would you describe these four songs on this "ep" we'll give listeners a sampling as i said a moment ago. how would you describe what your sound is? how do you describe your style? >> the best way -- i would describe my style probably old throw back soul meets new hip hop, kind of like that. it's so cool. i don't know. a throw back soul meets modern hip hop is the best way to put it together i would say.

>> the tracks that are on this "ep," how does this compare -- situate this with what we're going to hear when the full album comes out a year from now? same kind of stuff? different approach for the album next year? >> it's kind of, you know, ride similar lines. it kind of gives a sample of what's to come, in a way. but there will be a couple other things that are kind of a newer twist that you may not have heard on the "ep". it will be dope, so. >> how did you start to work on the craft of being a song writer, as opposed to being just a performer? >> um, really just kind of started -- it comes naturally. when i sit down at the piano, just start playing chords. you just get inspired sometimes just to write something and kind of go with it. sometimes you'll show it to a friend and let them see what they think, get a co-write going on. before you know, you're in the studio laying down some sick

stuff. >> did you take lessons on the key or are you self taught? >> little of both. i took lessons from victor wooten who is a base player that is incredible. and reggie taught me to play piano a little bit and showed me like my first song that he taught me was "soul train." ♪ then i came home and played it for my dad and he went, what? >> how many instruments do you play then? >> just piano. >> that counts. >> yeah. okay, two. [ laughter ]. >> boo ya. >> how do you process being on a historic and classic label with such a fresh sound like yours? blue note is blue note. >> i know. i was like -- it's an honor. it's always been a dream, verb and blue note have been my two favorite labels and nora jones

being on blue note was one of my favorite artists who inspired me to be who i am now and be a female and jazz and soul artist at the same time, to be on her label is like incredible. i couldn't be happier where i am. blue note has been the best label ever to me. >> don has a good ear. >> don is the man. yeah. >> he knows good stuff. how did y'all connect? >> we met through evan rogers and carl and eli wolf. they are producers of nora jones and also rihanna people that developed her and signed her, they brought me to don about a year ago and don signed me on the spot, which was awesome. >> and what did you sing for him? >> i got to play bonnie rates i can't make you love me. >> you did your own twist. >> yeah. i did my own twist. >> bonnie is an amazing artist. >> yes. that's my girl.

>> i hate people like you because you sing -- i hate in a loving way. but you sing. you write. you draw. you paint. >> yes. >> you're an artist, too. >> oh, yeah. >> put some of this stuff up, jonathan. we have a bunch of your pictures on the screen. how often do you do this? do you do this everyday, when you're on planes -- when do you? >> i've been doing it since i was 3. my mom gave me a crayon and a piece of paper and i just started drawing. >> how do you pick your subjects? >> sometimes i'll just google some of the greats. that's el la fitzgerald. that's a c-1 corvette, '53, one of my favorites. >> you say one of your favorites. did i read somewhere that you like working on cars? >> i'm a tomboy at heart. nobody knows. they wouldn't know until they saw me in nashville working on my baby. i'm trying to get it running, looking good, baby. >> i'm just now putting all this

together, the dress, the jewelry, the hair, the big earrings and working on cars. i just -- yeah. i see. see. all right. >> come on. >> i love this. i love this. it's like -- you are a different kind of -- >> thank you. >> a different kind of young renaissance woman, you do it all. you do it all. she writes and she songs awfully good. i haven't rid in one of her cars and she draws pretty well. i'll let you judge for yourself what you think of this voice. she's been hanging outs with don and prince. we are pleased tonight to not just have her in conversation but let you hear for yourself what kandace springs sounds like when she sings. that rhymes. what kandace springs sounds like when she sings. tonight with a performance of "forbidden fruit" from her new self titled ep, thank you for being on the program.

you're welcomed back. until then, thanks for watching and as always, keep the faith. ♪ ♪ close enough to touch, still a million miles away ♪ ♪ words that i can say ♪ why do we want more the things that we can't have ♪ ♪ ♪ i close my eyes and i see you

and me but it's just a treat ♪ ♪ it can never be ♪ forbidden fruit, why do i crave you ♪ ♪ why did god make you just to torture me ♪ ♪ forbidden fruit, i long to taste you ♪ ♪ wish i could escape you but your love won't set me free ♪ ♪ ♪ walking through the desert, feeling like eternity ♪ ♪ just one drop of you surely

poison me ♪ ♪ why is love so cruel ♪ why is love a fool ♪ can i be the kind of girl ♪ i close my eyes and i'm flying free ♪ ♪ but it's just a dream, it can never be ♪ ♪ never be, yeah ♪ forbidden fruit, why do i crave you ♪ ♪ why did god make you just to torture me ♪ ♪ forbidden fruit

♪ wish i could escape you, your love will set me free ♪ ♪ love with set me free, love will set me free ♪ ♪ love will set me free [ cheers and applause ]. >> thank you. >> announcer: for more information on today's show visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. hi, i'm tavis smiley. join us next time as we have andrew dice clay and discuss his new memoir, "the filthy truth." that's next time. we'll see you then. ♪j56w

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