good evening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley. tonight a conversation with nate parker and the director of columbia university's lab on intergroup relations about the role the media plays in perpetuating conscious and unconscious bias in this country. particularly when it comes to young black men. bias that too often results in deadly violence that negates the humanity inherent in all of us. we're glad you've joined us. that conversation coming up right now. ♪

♪ and by characteristics to your pb -- contributions to your pbs station by viewers like you. thank you. ♪ the aftermath of the shooting of michael brown in missouri ton point out how far apart many in this country still are when it comes to acknowledging bias. taking a deep dive into this conversation. columbia'suxq director of psychology of implicit bias and actor nate parker, who can be seen in "beyond the lights" which opens november 12th. he's also written and directed a psa that looks at how bias can have calamitous results.

a white cop opens fire on a group of young men with devastating personal consequences. >> get back inside your home. a police matter. >> he just shot this boy. >> do you want to go to jail? keep walking. >> i ain't going nowhere. you going to shoot me, too? >> people coming out of their houses. >> ain't no good. ain't no good. >> get back. this is a police matter. >> back off! >> mr. mitchell? >> all right. we need an ambulance. we need an ambulance now. >> let me jump to this clip. when i saw this, your people sent it to me, and i got to look at it.

it was -- it was arresting. one, you did some wonderful work here, for starters. but secondly, i want to give you an opportunity to explain whatm that clip was. explain it for me. >> basically, you have a police officer whom, you know, we basically present as a good person. he loves his family. he really loves his -- >> white cop. >> white cop. loves his family. loves his son. he's -- he's very, very adamant, intentional about creating a safe environment for his son. he goes out on his beat and sees the situation is at a liquor store, he's looking for someone. he stops and frisks a group of young men. some other men run. he chases them down, he finds himself in a situation where he's alone. he pull his gun, ends up shooting. and in that situation where he shot someone, you realize, you know, i don't want to give it away, but you realize right in that moment that everything he had done up to that moment created the -- the terrible situation that now he has to live with for the rest of his life. and -- you know, just getting

into it, what i wanted to do of create a piece that -- to do was create a piece that inspired empathy in our community the only thing worse than going to ferguson and standing over the memorial and seeing what had happened, what had transpired is the fact that so many american citizens seem indifferent and have no empathy when it comes to the lives of young black men being taken. >> why did you -- you explained in part what you wanted to get across. >> yes. >> why use this medium of short film basically? why did you use this artistic form as your expression, and what did you make it available, how did you make it available, how is it available? >> i think the importance is recognizing we all have a role in this struggle. for me it's film and television. i have a friend, james lopez, vice president at sony screen. i was on my way to ferguqb8mñ - quick story. i adopted my nephew from my sister when he was a teenager. we watched the coverage, you know, the narrative unfold in the mike brown tragedy on cnn. he turn to me and says, "uncle

nate, what do i do when i get pulled over?" i had no answer. it was a very emotional experience because i. like here i had -- because i felt like here i had taken this young man, given him opportunity to be a credit, a success, but in this country i cannot send him to school without feeling that his life could be in danger. with that energy inside my soul, i bought my ticket. i was going get on a plane. i got a phone call, saying we have to do something. i said, i agree. what should we do? he said, i have ideas to kick around. through the concept, he said, you know, what if this happened, that happened. i said, i'm going to get on a plane, i'll call you in a couple of hours. i wrote the short, and that's what we shot. i felt like it was on my soul. because you know, in getting there and realizing this is where we are as america. i named it "emir e-can" for certain -- "ameri-can" for

certain reason. for anyone to call themselves american, you have to recognize your shortcomings and recognize that this great country that we invest so much in and n various ways is still sick. and so, you know, i was talking to my sister in the room. we can't look at the community and judge our community based on the healthy. we have to look at where we're failing. so that's what this is about. this is my platform. this is my voice because i'm not into politics. you know, and it's not an indictment on a police officer. because the humanization amongst our people, what's happened to us systematically on an everyday basis is real, and it affect all of us. >> in terms of my question of available, when, where, and how do people get to the full measure of the short film? >> we released it on youtube. when we first put it together, it was a labor of love. sony helped out a lot. i put in half the money. james lopez put in money. charles king was a partner, put in money. said we're going to make this basically just to send the

message out. we released it on youtube. within five days, we had like, you know, 11,000 hits. that was that. you know, my whole thing is this is not something we want to make money off. we called it a public service announcement because it's for the public. for people to see. hopefully it's -- can represent that service to the community. >> valerie, nate raises i think the essential point in this conversation that i want to unpack tonight and dissect which is this notion of why it is that so many americans, not all, but so many american have so little empathy for black men, and for the plight of black men. we'll come to the plight in a moment. as black men, we're human like anybody else. what is it -- what is this disconnect between america and empathy for blacken? >> so, such a great question. there's a couple of issue. one of the thing is that there are so many pervasive images out there in the media of black men

doing wrong. they're everywhere. they're in the newspaper. they're in films. we don't have enough counter images. one you get used to over and over and over again linking black men to crime, black men to aggressiveness, black children to not doing well in school, over and over again, the problem become black men. that's one. the other thing is the relative absence of other groups. so this is one of those things where oftentimes black women have other images that are out there. there are other kinds of images. so there's this real sort of concentrated, overtime, pervasive linking between black men and crime. black men and aggressive not. black men and not doing -- aggressiveness. black men and not doing right. over and over you get used to this idea that that is the problem, that is the source of the problem. once it you get pegged as the problem person in school, on tv,

there isn't a laot of empathy. along with that, people get tired of the question over time. they get fatigue. they just don't top hear about it anymore. and this is not just a problem in the united states. you see ano6(e%t version in brazil. you see another version in london. this is really a worldwide issue. i think, nate, you're really bringing it home here in the united states. but there are very few places that black men go and are just seen as equal. >> to the person watching who just heard what you said and thought they heard you say that it's not the fault of black men but the fault of the media, respond to that. >> well, okay. first of all, first of all, it's crystal clear. the evidence is crystal clear that when you see repeated images over and over again -- i teach this in my class. i talk about peanut butter and jelly. only in the united states do so many pairing between peanut butter and jelly, you automatically when you think of jelly, you think of peanut butter. you think of peanut butter, you

think of jelly. fast forward to black men. there are so many images out there was black men and crime. they're everywhere. that when you think of crime, when you're in an urban area, when you're in an area where you think crime maybe might be happening or it's relevant like a courthouse, you're automatically thinking about black men. similarly, there are very few spaces where black men are not under suspect. there's very few. so the evidence is clear that that link is strong. it's pervasive. it operates at an unconscious level outside of our aa warns. and it hits all -- awareness. and it hits all of us. we were talking, it hits white american, black american, latino americans. the evidence is crystal clear. >> the question is whether or not the linkage -- which i grant you is real -- is that a linkage that's created by hollywood, by the media, culture, or what we've seen authentic image of the relationship between black boys, black men, and crime

special so you see my point? so is it real -- >> it can't possibly be 100% black men. >> right. >> black american are only 12.5% of this country, right? then of that, only half of them are african-american men. it can't be possible that 6% of the population is driving all this. it has to be something else. one of the things that i think where psychology comes into play is our memory. what are the image that we actually remember -- the najs we actually remember? we don't walk around seeing and remembering everything correctly. when you see an image of a black men or one thing that was done wrong, you remember that. when you see one thing that was done right, you don't necessarily remember that, as well. stereotypes teamwork guide the way you see the -- work to guide the way you see the world. >> nate, you said you're not political. i don't mean to make you political. this isn't a political question as much as it is about humanity. >> sure. >> and about empathy. there was this notion in 2008, and indeed there were black folk who were advancing this notion

that the election of barack obama of going to usher in this era where block folks could say to their black boys you can be anything, you can do anything, the world is going to look at you differently. i recall some actors -- not to call any numbers -- will smith, who i love, who said famously that there are no more excuses. i love will, and i still ain't had that debate that just because obama's elected doesn't mean black men don't have more excuse. it's about the world we live in. i love will. the point is everybody had an opinion about this. i'm not trying to domonize anybody. the question is, what happened -- demonize anybody. the question is, what happened to the notion of one wlk man, leader of an american empire, would change the way that black men and boys were seen, the way they were treated? how do you juxtapose that sense, that notion being advanced in 2008 with all of the hell that we've seen rain down on black

boys, the killing of black men in the streets, in the era of obama? >> it just goes to show that no one person, no exception can be used as the barometer of an entire community. it just can't. in the same way that, you know, if hillary clinton were to be elected, the next day you wouldn't say there's no sexism. it would be the most absurd statement anyone could make. so you know, i think the most damaging thing is when you see, you know, i remember being in washington, i campaigned for president obama twice. the same t-shirt that had president obama on, they had dr. king, i have a dream, realized. i think it was a misguided tampa at us to reach for something, our humanity, to be -- to be just validated. i mean, and i think it speaks to the injury that we live with every day as black people. i want to speak to something that you said. while i do think the media has a very, very strong voice and trajectory of where we go as a people and how we're represented as black men, i think that we would be remiss if we didn't look back and say maybe it started before.

maybe this -- >> absolutely. >> right. maybe the roots of why young black men are villainized and are seen as threats go back to a time where we were being lynched for looking at women or to saying hi or -- we're talking about the branches, but we really need to focus on the root when it comes to the injury of slavery. there's a book that talk about post traumatic slave syndrome. and how it's all connected. i don't think you can separate what's happening in hip-hop culture and music and the celebration of murder and the celebration of drugs, and the celebration of misogyny, you can't disconnect that from where we've come from, you know? >> i want to build -- i had our producer for this show tonight, khalia, put some factoids on this card, i'm out of blue cards, brother -- >> sure. >> i want to get these facts right. i had them on blue cards that i know those of you at home will find them interesting.

i want to go through you one at a time in the ten minutes i have left and get valerie and night to chime in as they will on these five interesting stats that we all need to deal with. in no particular order, killers of whites are punished more severely than girls -- than killers of blacks. 1995. killers of whites are punished more severely than killers of black. what do you make of them? >> right. so -- i'm laughing because we actually did a study on this. one of the thing that comes out of that is that black-on-black crime is not seen, our lives are not seen as valuable. i mean, that's just -- that's just clear. and you see that throughout the criminal÷pv÷ justice system. so this idea that when an individual takes the life away of an individual who's white, i mean, really what that statistic is saying is that person is more valuable. you've been talking about

dehumanization. doesn't get much more real in terms of the humanization than that statistic. >> let's talk about racism. the one thing that i've found amongst my peer, my colleagues, is that as americans we -- we don't know what the definition of racism is. we think of racism, we think of racial hate. i'm not racist. it's based on the "n" word. it's based on if if there's overt prejudice, if there's a beatdown, hate crime. we're afraid to say the two words white supremacy. you look in the dictionary at racism, the first is white supremacy, the second is institutionalialism, the third is racial hate. when you mention those statistics, to me it makes perfect sense. it makes perfect stone a society that systematically has placed a people beneath, a different people based on race. i mean, that's systemic. that is infrastructure that we have to deal with. i think that to deal with that we have to recognize that

there's a systemic change that's happened to us. if not, we're inferior. if not, those statistics make sense. >> i want to get to four others since you mentioned racism and people not knowing what the definition is. having a functional defining. dr. king -- a book tour i had written called "death of a king," about the last year of his life. king defined racism as this way. maybe people can hear king when they can't hear us. he defined it as prejudice plus power, king's definition of racism. prejudice plus power. if you have any prejudice and you have the power to enact the prejudice, whether it be hiring or -- you know, we can run the list. take the point -- >> medical decision. go prejudice plus power is what kieng -- how king defined racism. i digress, marinade on that one the show is over tonight. speaking of medical, we had your colleague, dr. carl hart, from columbia on this program not long ago. fact two, a 2002 institute of medicine report found that

minorities received worse medical care, that minorities received worse medical care. so back to your project, nate. the clip ended with this white cop desperately and frustratingly calling for help immediately to save this young white boy. we won't give the story away. to save this young white boy. he wanted help right now. michael brown, by contrast, we know laid in the street for how many hours? >> four. >> four-plus hours, laid in the street, body uncovered. what do you make about the fact of black receiving worse medical care? >> not just medical care but controlling -- it's not just about health insurance. one of the really interesting findings revolves around black men men and pain medication. we had a whole show before the show around black men and pain medication. the idea that black men are given less pain medication, given whatever their ailment is. the idea being they can take it.

they can tolerate pain. they can -- they can handle it. so there's, again, all these ways in which race plays a role. way outside -- >> this has historical context. you know, in times of slavery, it was a widespread -- circulated by delk time that black people -- by doctors at the time that black people felt pain at a different rate than white people. there's historical context. if not -- we can't just put it all on an island and say what do these statistics mean without understanding that this is not the first time this way of thinking of implemented. >> right. >> as psychologists, we've been trying to unpack the when, the why, the how. we need to work together on that. >> fact number three, the department of education's office for civil rights showed that black preschoolers are far more likely to be suspended. so to your point about going way back, it does go way back. but it's still even today starting at such a young age.

the department of education telling us black preschoolers far more likely to be suspended. how do you get suspended -- i still can't process, we all saw the horrific -- i got to stop smiling for a second. this is not funny. you can google this. about the young child who was 4, 5 years of age, i think, maybe 6 in florida. it was all over the internet. who -- the person at the school felt they couldn't handle her. and they called the police department. they called in the sheriffs to put a toddler basically in handcuffs. they took this girl out of school in handcuffs because she was having a temper tantrum. that's the way the black children and preschoolers get treated. what do you make of the fact that this starts early, that in preschool your already treated as a sdplnl. >> i think a lot of it goes back to, you know, reach its compromise. when you look at a person as less than human, then there's an entire scope of things that they're sentable to in my

opinion. if you look at a young kid and say -- not to mention, one of the studies we were talking about where young black men, specifically young black boys are perceived as average of four years older than they really are. you know, it's like -- not only are we aging them, but we see the threat. the threat is real. it's no different than what you see the videos of the kids, you know, on the youtube with fake guns and shooting and saying the lyrics. or it's like if the media is what is the sustenance and i'm not -- >> an african-american man -- >> say i'm just a white schoolteacher, and i'm seen on television constantly being fed the image of what this is from toddler to elderly. then it's going to affect my every day. >> you jumped ahead. since you raised it -- before valerie jumps in, that was my fourth factoid. 2014, a study from the apa journal of personality and social psychology found that black boys face harder

punishment because they are often perceived as older than they actually are. >> that's a great study, and he worked on that for so long. >> one of the reasons is people didn't believe that that would be true. that, you know, people say, oh, well, african-american, we age so well. that is a completely different issue. when you take a black boy who is 5, a white boy on this is 5, the black boy is seen as almost nine years old. that's a huge difference. age that up a little bit, take a 10-year-old teamwork 1-year-olds, one is white, someone black, and awed of a sudden when you start adding to the ambiguity around one boy shoves another. you know, kids are just roughhousing. all of a sudden, that's an act of aggression. >> when he's 14, he's perceived as 19 or 20. and that's how you get them to -- >> you walk right up to the

criminal justice system. so how it possible this a 14-year-old, 15-year-old walk away from his uncle? >> the information could go on for hour, it's so arresting, no pun intended. fact number five. back to your fail, suspects killed during arrest are disproportion idealy black. what makes the film so powerful is again, ton give it away that this white officer as you saw in the clip, roll over. this body this been hot, that he shot. rolls over the body of a kiddy in a hoodie. i noticed that. rolled him over it and sees a white face inside the hoodie. in most of these arrests, it's not what you saw on film. it's a black suspect getting shot. >> that's the point. the point is whether it be cops or people in a position of power, as you've put it, thought about these situations with this could be my sons, brother, they wouldn't take a moment. what we're seeing here, when people wuch the film, the most

important thing -- one of the most important beats for me in writing it was seeing the juxtaposition between his emotional state before he saw the body and then after he saw the body. when -- after he shoots the person, he handcuff the body as he's addressing the young people. back up, i'll arrest. a situation. it's only when he flips the -- you see the white hand. he flips it ands "we need an ambulance." he goes on to charge people, help me now. will you help me, please? the people are like, what's happening? to see that change in emotional state is what we're dealing with. >> in five seconds. tell me where they can find the film on line. >> ameri-can. you can go to my twitter and find it in any of the comments. >> i think you'll be fascinated. you have to the scene that we showed, a very short film. a matter of minutes.

you have to how it builds up to the end and what he realizes when he roled that boy over in the street. i'll at least at that. it's done courtesy of night parker. good to have you on the screen. good luck on this and the movie on the 14th. >> thanks. >> and valerie is a wrestler at the columbia. weaver -- we're honored to have you on the program. great to have you on the program. >> thank you. >> that's the show for tonight. and as always, keep the faith. ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. join me next time for a conversation with smokey robinson about his latest c.d., "smokey and friends." see you next time.

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