>> from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original. for over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. john: issue one -- debate ii, return of the republicans >> i dare hillary clinton, barack obama to watch these tapes. watch a fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain. this is about the character of our nation. john: they're back. moderated by cnns jake tapper,

the second republican presidential debates of the 2016 cycle took place wednesday at the ronald reagan presidential library in simi valley, california. there were two debates. one at 6 p.m. eastern and the other and 8 p.m. eastern. the earlier debate involved four candidates lower in the polls -- lindsey graham, bobby jindal, george pataki, and rick santorum. the prime-time debate featured jeb bush, ben carson, chris christie, ted cruz, carly fiorina, mike huckabee, john kasich, rand paul, marco rubio, donald trump and scott walker. and beyond their shared words of affection for ronald reagan, the candidates quickly sought battle. who won the primetime debate? pat: i think you'd have to say carly fiorina won it. she was prepared, programmed.

articulate, crisp. she was tough and after the debate was over, a lot of people said she'd won and she had really won overwhelming the postgame debate, if you will on all the tv shows and talking shows so people who think she won are going up, up and up right now long after the debate is over. but i will say this -- carly fiorina is not being projected as a as, if you will, the anti-trump in the republican party, someone who will do for the establishment, take down trump, which is establishment the desperate to get done. i don't think anybody was badly hurt in the debate. some people did well. i think some did very well but there's no doubt about it, i think that carly comes out number one. eleanor: yeah, on debating points she stood out. she has introduced herself to the country. she's going far beyond the republican base. she played fast and loose,

though, with the facts around planned parenthood and i think she's overreach in the criticism she's making of an organization that millions of women in this country have gotten services from and who -- to imply that they are harvesting and selling baby parts doesn't bear out with the facts and i think it's really offensive. but having said all that, she is a touch debater. debater. gh she called down donald trump and i think trump basically has been taken down a peg or two. he seems to have reached a leveling. he's sort of one of the candidates and i think jeb bush had his moments. i think he's still in the game and i think chris christie actually came back, so i think the establishment is still alive and well against the insurgents and i would count fiorina with trump as an

unsurge end. john: when i say who won the prime-time debate, but who dot the most air time, trump got only 20 minutes, followed by bush with 16 minutes and fiorina with 13 minutes. tom: how do you cob receive of the victory is important. jeb bush had moments of humor in there. the secret service challenging donald trump. carly fiorina had a powerful line, i think women across america showed what you think and i think his base seemed visibly concerned. i agree with eleanor. the question is, we have many more debates to go. you think about 1980, george bush obviously winning iowa in the first caw cusses and then reagan came up. thanks -- things will happen. we'll have to say. john: if you define winner as an improvement in relative

standing, fiorina won the most followed by rubio but both started from relatively low levels. bush moved up relative to his lackluster performance in the august debate. clarence: i would agree with that. i think also that carly fiorina gain it would most from this detective. however, i wonder, though, if she's not still somewhat damaged as far as winning the nomination because one good shot that trump got in was her record at hewlett-packard. yeah, that was a tough time for high-tech in general but it muddied the waters. pat: you'll hear a lot more about that. i'm sure donald trump is and the democrats will. that's what killed her in that senate debate. george bush -- [laughter] i thought jeb did a good job and i like trump.

he was being punched from every side in this debate and they kept showing his exasperation but overall it showed the fact that there was a big guy and all these people piling on. in that sense he stood his own. eleanor: he had his momentsful he reached out to carson on one seed and jeb on the other. plus, he wanted to go after the hedge fund guys, which i really liked in terms of fiorina, she's going to get scrutiny. so far she's been brilliant at turnle -- turning a leden business career into spun gold. that and a lost senate race, not much preparation to become president. hewitt packard also didn't follow the sanctions against iran and she's a big supporter now of tougher sanctions so she's got a lot of inconsistencies she's going to have to address.

john: issue two, keeping us safe. trump: and your brother's administration gave us barack obama because it was such a disaster those last three months that abraham lincoln couldn't have been elected. jeb: he kept us safe. >> i'm very concerned about having him in charge of the nuclear weapons because i think his visceral response to attack people on their appearance, short, tall, fat, ugly. my goodness, that happened in junior high. are we not way above that? are we worried to have someone like that in charge of the nuclear arsenal? trump: i never attacked him on his look and believe me, there's plenty of subject matter right there. john: and here's carly fiorina's defense plan. fiorina: whaled doing is begin rebuilding the missile fleet. i would conduct regular

aggressive medical torrey exercises in the baltic states. john: which of the g.o.p. candidates is best placed to keep america safe? eleanor: jeb bush in declaring that his brother kept us safe, it never helps jeb when he en-- invokes his brother george. he plenty he kept us safe after the 9/11 attacks. but i think jeb bush does have a substantial foreign policy view. his problem is that it's filled with people who served in his father's administration and his brother's administration and it's very hard for the public to accept, i think that he's his own man. rand paul, i know pat likes him but he's probably a little bit too libertarian and dovish for the republican electorate and carly fiorina is totally crazy the way she talks about inflating the defense budget. pat: there's a clear bifurcation in the rental party and you can see it in the issue

of would you tear up the deal with iran as soon as you take office. walker will do that. rubio will do that. i think carly is going to call -- on the phone. on the other side you have bush, who i would call a realist and trump who says i'd take a hard look at and it rand and kasich who said i'm not going to tear that up. john this is the division inside the party, which has been miscrarktse i seed as interventionist burr i would say it's realists. tom: i'm not a fan of the deal but i suspect marco rubio, if he was to become president, would not tear up the deal. if the deal is working, is iran is complying, if there is verification, the deal will hold. so i think you do think -- i think it's going to expand.

and i would tell fiorina, pat and i disagreed last week but some of the substance of what she suggests -- rebuilding the sixth fleet in the mediterranean. the russians have a lot of anti-ship missiles. it needs to be more complicated than calling out netanyahu. eleanor: and while she's rebuilding the sixth fleet she isn't going to talk to putin because she's so tough. it's unrealistic. pat: i agree 100%. the politics of the republican party are clearly still much more hawkish. they're moving the right way on trailed and immigration but they're still hawkish as to intervention in the middle east. clarence: that's what's hurting -hand rand paul. there's a strong sentiment in the republican party to buy more weapons. pat: rand is one guy and he can

get back that constituency his father had. offensive he had a lot of stens on the debate stage. pat: i agree. i thought he had a good debate. clarence: at a time like now when the republican rank and file is feeling more hawkish than usual. eleanor: they don't have any solutions for anything, though. it's a lot of talk. body wants to send -- except lindsay graham. pat: he and putin get on just like that. clarence: he'll be pals. john: there's a dynamic in the debate that's quite interesting and that is that the dynamic is something guess of called bravo, which is housewives who argue with each other. clarence: i thought that was a cable tv channel? eleanor: it is.

john: the dynamic is they argue with each other. hat is what's going on here. putting one of the candidates against the prospective view of another and engage him in spritely conversation in bravo, the real housewife series, one housewife confronts others another housewife is saying about them, usually behind their back. cnn deliberately copied the real housewives formula. it preff faced each statement with a statement another candidate had made about the candidate being questioned. this format was taken directly from bravo. point of view in junior high you go up and say did you see what so-and-so said behind you? eleanor: and you have voters trying to decide what the difference is, i think it

effectively pitted them against each other and carly fiorina did say a long campaign will reveal our character and our positions and i think that's starting to happen. john: who exhibited the most -- was the most charismatic of the candidates you saw? just one name. pat: i would say rubio and carly. john: which of the two? eleanor: i would say rubio is the most charismatic. tom: rubio for that line about spanish speaking and univision and being able to deal with people. clarence: i think rubio certainly has those qualities. crares matic is a word that -- charismatic sick a word that helps me to explain why ben cars season still there. he's a very likable guy but i can't see him as president. i call him the dr. huxtable

factor. he's so likable. john: that's all very interesting but the answer is fiorina. she struck an artful balance between passion and deliberation. issue three-language lessons. trump: this is a country where we speak english, not spanish. >> my grandfather instilled in me the belief that i was blessed to live in the one society in all of human history where even i, the son of a bartender and maid could aspire to anything. but he taught me that this spanish because it was the language he was most comfortable in and he game a conservative even though he got his news in spanish. i believe that free enterprise and limited government is the best way to help people who are trying to achieve yum ward mobility and i want them to hear that directly from me, not from a translator at univision. john: is he rite?

pat: certainly he's from the cuban community in miami and that certainly would help you down there. but in the broad issue, when trump talks about you don't have one country unless ultimately you have one language. and english is the majority language of the state. and everybody should learn it, understand it, speak it so that we can become one nation and one people. john: you have those workers over there that come from south america cutting your grass and doing your lawns and you pay them an unacceptle fee but -- by your standards. don't you can you should try to communicate to them in span selfish pat: no, they should commune kuwait with me. the spanish folks, they're hard working and smiling. eleanor: your earlier rhetoric is not going to help the

republican party and the future of this country. listen to donald trump and marco rubio, where is the future? it's not with donald trump saying we all need to speak english. i wish i spoke another language. i actually am the daughter of immigrants and i don't even have their language. i you should. i think people who speak spanish in this country bring a lot of rich experiences for us all to learn from and in a country that's going to be majority minority pretty soon, speaking spanish is ana set and the republican party doesn't recognize that, they're missing a big belt. clarence: that's a real issue. i don't know of anybody pushing two languages. anybody pushing don't learn english. this is such an old issue in america. it's as old as america itself and every generation goes through this. people come here speaking their native tongue. they learn how to get along. the next generation learns

english and becomes more fully assimilated. that's the american way and anything we do to slow down that process is bad, including trying to eliminate by lingual education. john: here's how trump spun it around with regard to bush, who gives speeches in spanish. trump highlighted the fact that jeb is weak on immigration, an issue of high importance to trump's base. he made bush look like an advocate of a permanently bilingual country in which assimilation never happens. touchdown yes, donald trump tried to appeal to that community but at the same time marco rubio is saying yes, people should learn english in america. but there is an articulateable opportunity for marco rubio to be distanced from trump.

securing the border is one thing and saying look, america, anybody can. we must make sure we don't become like europe where there is a real tension between -- clarence: they don't know how to do it right in america. we do. let's keep on doing what we're with doing. pat: does univision really want one language in america? no. huge numbers on radio, tv stations. we're developing into two languages. what happened before doesn't mean it's happening now. clarence: there are different ways of learning english. eleanor: everybody who knows two languages has an advantage. john: government shutdown strategy. let's go. >> the one thing i'm not going to do going into 2016 is shut the government down and tank our ability to win. what you're saying and what senator cruz is saying i am sick of hearing. john: are ted cruz and bobby

jindal right or wrong to call for a government shutdown strategy? pat: they want a republican party that stands up and fights and even goes right up to the edge of the cliff and what our friend down in south carolina, mr. graham is saying, he doesn't want too do that. this is the battle inside the republican party on capitol hill and it's coming up again. eleanor: and it didn't work out too well for the republicans the last time it happened and if they're stupid enough to take us over that brink and cost the country billions of dollars and disrupt people's lives, they're going to pay for it in the election. pat: they're not going to shut down the government. the senate will shut it down by refusing to pass a continuing resolution. eleanor: uh, that's a very convenient way. you think you're going to blame it on the democrats. we know who's behind the push to shut down the government, because they don't want to fund planned parent hood. pat: they've never voted to shut down the government,

never. eleanor: technicality, pat. you know who -- john: will a government shutdown this year hurt the republican nominee in 2016? tom: it would certainly hurt the republican candidate but it makes sense for some republicans to say that because it attracts some in the republican base. you can say this is why we should have some reform here or there. make the ideas to people in the electorate because perception drives the reality in a election year. john: if a shutdown caused a massive selloff in the market, the g.o.p. nominee will pay the price, true or nals? clarence: an economic downturn always hurts the incumbent. eleanor: it hurts everybody.

john: are the democratsoverly optimistic for planned prarnlte hood? pat: they're in the tank for planned parenthood. the republicans are not going to vote to shut down the government. harry reid and his gang will do it. eleanor: that was once a tank filled with a lot of republicans back in the day when there were moderate, thinking republicans. john: issue five -- flashes of humor. >> ever-ready, it's very high energy, donald. [applause] >> mr. trump? >> humble. [laughter] >> that's a good one. john: who was the most entertaining? pat: trump made the show. eleanor: the trump-bush show will go on for months. tom: bush's secret service line was great. clarence: trump.

john: the answer is trump. issue six-china's 12-mile message. >> war is the sword of damocles. we must learn the lessons of history and dedicate ourselves to peace. john: china's president xi jinping says his nation wants global peace and this week china promised a crackdown on sbernt hackers who target america. but china's promises ring hollow. his military was publicly parading its growing military reach. on decision play were weapons like the d.f.-21 d., an anti-ship ballistic missile specifically designed to sink american aircraft carriers and other missiles that can target u.s. bases on guam, over 1,800 miles from china. that's not all. after training with russian forces two weeks ago, five

chinese naval wessels transitted through u.s. territorial waters in the a luings islands. president obama will have some tough questions when president jinping arrives on a state visit next week. what message is china sending one week before president xi's visit to washington? eleanor: i think he's firming up the president's poverty to asia because china is emerging as a rival superpower on the world stage. friendly corporation but it's getting more rival rouse, more aggressive. and i think china wants something out of this as well. this president is really cracking down on corruption and there are some 15 chinese billionaires who have fled the country with their billions and he would like them extradited. china comes to the table wanting something, the u.s. wants something and then the

whole problem of each country spying on the other and some pretty aggressive cyber hacking by the chinese on the u.s. pat: the chinese are saying look, if you want your seventh fleet over there moving around in the east china sea and the taiwan strait, you're going to find chinese nfl wessels moving around in all the waters which you've considered your own. john: which water? pat: i wouldn't be surprised to see them in the gulf of mexico. the crib ran. john: what else? pat: in the alewisings and the bearing straight. john: arctic. tom: we obviously want to avoid conflict but the difficulty with the undercutting of american power. he aleutian island aspect is

interesting. i think we should be sending a message of credibility to our allies in that part of the world. people like the philippines. vietnam is going to be arming their coast guard shims in face of the chinese. those islands allow the chinese to dominate trade routes there. they could really cause us economic damage if they decided to put missile platforms there. go over in one flight to send a message. eleanor: china poses no military threat to the u.s. they may in the future but they're making their neighbors nervous so the u.s. had -- has to kind of have their back. larence: the real damage is in cyber space. pat: in the south china see they're turning reefs into islands and declaring it part of china and china's territorial waters and there could be real conflict if the americans continue to --

eleanor: those on the republican debate stage say they shouldn't give the chinese president a state dinner. they should take him to mcdonald's, they shouldn't really deal with him. it is ludicrous. he's a great world power, you have to have respect. tom: those silly comments are lewd cows -- ludicrous but our poise -- policies are ludicrous. they're coming through our -- pat: how are you going to stop them? tom: you put an f-22 over there. pat: george w. bush got one of his planes shot downgoing too close to one of the islands. pat: -- tom: what's going to happen if they -- we do nothing? they're going to build up that empire. clarence: these ships in the bearing sea don't pose a direct

sea. it's curious why they're around except to do muscle flexing. but they have enough troubles at home right now. eleanor: the u.s. military budget -- china's and they're going to talk about increasing military-to-military communications. john: who will be the second republican to drop from the race? pat: virginia governor gilmore. eleanor: bobby jindal. tom: pataki. clarence: i say pataki. john: lindsey graham. bye-bye.

♪ good evening and welcome to kqed "newsroom." i'm trivoo. fire crews are battling a wildfire that has destroyed more than 600 homes in lake county. they're worried that warm weather could add fuel to the blaze. three people have died in the fire andt least one person remains missing. four firefighters have suffered burns. the blaze known as the valley fire ignited last saturday and is burning in parts of lake, sonoma and napa counties. it's one of more than 5,000 wildfires scorching the state this year according to cal fire. marco