>> from washington, "the mclaughlin group," the american original -- for over three decades, the sharpest minds, best sources, hardest talk. john: issue one, hillary on the hill. secretary clinton: mr. chairman, i've said it before, i will say again, i'll say it as many times as is necessary to respond. chris stevens communicated with the members of my staff. not raise security with the members of my staff. communicated with him about certain issues. he did not raise security with

me. raised security with the security professionals. i know that's not the answer you hear because it's being asked in many different ways by committee members. facts,se are the mr. chairman. john: hillary clinton, 2016runner for the democratic presidential nomination, was on capitol hill this week. testimony ongave her four-year service as between 2009state specifically, in relation to the september 2012 terrorist attack on the u.s. consulate in benghazi, libya, in which four americans, including ambassador chris stevens, were murdered. republicans believe mrs. clinton had the opportunity to tell the whole story, especially leading up tood the benghazi attack. democrats say republicans are playing politics to discredit

mrs. clinton's presidential campaign. the exchanges were sometimes heated. here's g.o.p. committee chairman gowdy. trey gowdy: i want to draw your attention to an email about lib --ya from mr. album blumenthal to you. "this is informative should we parentheticals, unidentifiable, to the white house." why would you take off the identifier secretary clinton: because it was important to evaluate the information and from a lot of intelligence that i have certainly reviewed over the years, you often don't have the source of the intelligence. you look at the intelligence and determine whether or not it is credible, whether it on.be followed up trey gowdy: i'm going to accept the fact that you and i come backgroundsnt because i can tell you an unsourced comment could never be

courtroom.a secretary clinton: we're not talking about courtrooms but intelligence. trey gowdy: we're talking about credibility and the ability to assess who a source is and whether or not that source has been to libya, knows anything about libya or has in libya, allests of which would be important if you were going to determine the credibility which i think is why you probably took this information off of what you sent house.white john: who is sidney blumenthal? and why did he feature so the benghazin hearing? tim carney? is sortney blumenthal of a classic washington figure, a former clinton administration official who now is an operative using political experience to do libya so he's an annoying friend you have who emails you things constantly, he's hillary's annoying friend of she would pass on some his intelligence higher up as the trey gowdy thing was showing and it also came out in the

toring that he had access hillary's private secret little email she moved away from state servers while top state department officials, like ambassador stevens, didn't. john: eleanor? eleanor: the republicans are trying to turn sidney blumenthal a svengali-type figure in suggesting he was behind all of and isya strategy secretly whispering in hillary's ear. it's ridiculous. and the 11 hours of badgering withstood that. in my history, i can't remember or woman being subjected to that kind of questioning over that long doing as well and as hillary clinton did. john: 10 hours. a selectthis was committee. they chose people on it, several on the republican side are theyr prosecutors, and hammered away at her as though they were in a courtroom and createre going to reasonable doubt in the minds of one juror.

political prosecution, in the best sense of the word, is very different. tone, in style, the republicans really fell on their they, one more time, republican overreach helps hillary clinton. hurdle she's now gotten over on her way to likely democratiche nomination. john: let's get back to sidney. clinton's mainry adviser on libya? ambassador stevens or sidney blumenthal? tom? tom: i think the state bureaucracy. to some degree, eleanor is that republicans summoned the panel. it was obvious in the political tenor but there are serious questions to be asked in terms of the video coming out, the change of rhetoric there, the impetus on the part of the administration to avoid a terrorist concern going up to the 2012 elections and sidney

caveatsal taking the off the emails. i thought that was ludicrous that hillary clinton didn't want his name on there so the intelligence would be judged credibly. is,ink the ultimate fact since the mccarthy comment, republicans have shot themselves this, and, you know, ultimately everyone is saying, look at the coverage. it.y she's campaigning on she delivered at least in a credibleerms performance. john: who is mccarthy? mccarthy is the house majority whip, he made that comment. john: blumenthal was a special assistant to the president in the bill clinton white house and the payroll of the clinton foundation, simultaneously political and policy advice to the secretary of state, hillary clinton, especially on libya. did you know that?

interestingn figure. he was a journalist for a -- journalist for "the new for "the new yorker" before doing that. respected author. he's working on a three-part biography, lincoln as a politician. he's quite an interesting figure and he was there for the clintons at their darkest moments towards the end of the administration and the clintons are nothing if not loyal so they have stuck with him all that time. one thing that hasn't been talked about at all by either side here, and there's an for it,reason ambassador stevens was a particular type of ambassador wayi say this in the best possible of the he was kind of a cowboy. took a lotbody who of risks knowingly. he wanted the u.s. image in libya to be fearless and up front. aroundd go jogging benghazi without security protection. he was trying to let the local people there know that he didn't

at them as enemies. and when you take risks like know, terrible things can happen and that's what happened here. but hillary clinton doesn't want that issue because then it sounds like you're blaming for what happened. tom: i would say one thing, as that, stateto department, diplomatic security, assistant director gets the briefing, someone really did up in terms of not providing security. eleanor: yes, they did. with you. tom: but the one thing that came shouldsomeone's head have rolled in the government's bureaucracy. oranor: there were seven eight other investigations including one at the state didrtment and four heads roll. tom: they didn't get caught. doanor: that's difficult to in government. you transfer people and whatever so unless you change our civil rules, so, that has all happened.

that's the whole point. this investigation, so-called investigation by this committee, is just a rehash of everything that went before. tim: a few heads rolling isn't here.oblem part of the reason there wasn't security there is because obama make suren wanted to there weren't boots on the ground. they had a specific strategy of war.-by we're going to do regime change to occupynot going the country. that was the decision, what and barackhed for obama agreed to. eleanor: your conflating military boots on the ground and embassy-like protection. john: there is a contradiction between hillary's private emails and public statements dealing with the terrorist nature of the attack. which of the two is more newsworthy? do you care to reflect on that, ryan? ryan: sure. so emails emerged, they didn't

emerge at the hearing but were rehashed at the hearing showing she told particular people, some middle east, her daughter, that there had been an consulate and people had died as a result. she saidt to that, this was related to a protest. so it was portrayed as a gotcha moment. and certainly some members of of those who died didn't like where that was heading. think what you've got to remember here is that it was -- eleanor: chaos. ryan:alshea claimed responsibility when she was telling people it was an al qaeda linked attack. their claim of responsibility and the person captured and led the attack has since said, yes, i was ticked off about that video. so it's not as if we're talking

either/or. john: how come stevens had or no contact with her? ryan: him having her personal or home address is not the most efficient way. her private have email. eleanor: he was only in the post for four months before he was killed, unfortunately. he was in touch with a lot of people at the state department. i don't think it's unusual that was not on the phone with hillary clinton. john: who do we know about stevens' private life? eleanor: we know he loved his job and that he spoke the language and that he wanted very libya and, you know, he never asked that the consulate be shut down. we also know that the outpost was a c.i.a. installation and i thought the point was made by wasn'tocrats that, why david patraeus sitting there as a witness there, as well, and leon panetta, former defense

secretary, sitting there, because there were intersecting that night.hority it wasn't only hillary clinton. minimal she played a role. john: is it true blumenthal sent on email than her any other source? tim: yes. hisrelevant thing, why input comes across as sketchy, is because he did have business interests there and we know -- something the left is good at reminding us of, when somebody has money at stake in something, that maybe you out ot to take what they're saying with of salt and in this case it seems hillary put a lot of in blumenthal. eleanor: there's no evidence that anything came of any of his memos. change in policy, nothing in effect. it's all the ones we haven't seen? me that she was doing at one point what she said, you pass along something kind of as a courtesy and you get it off

your plate and put it in somebody else's. sidney blumenthal is a good friend and she's not walking away from that. but chief adviser on libya? no way. john: whose credibility improved the most at the benghazi hearing? clinton'sretary gowdy?lity or trey eleanor: hillary, slam dunk. tom: politically, hillary one. ryan: gowdy was the one sweating. john: trudeau part two. all acrosss from this great country sent a clear message tonight, it's time for a in this country, my friends, a real change! john: 42 years of age, justin trudeau will become the next of canada in a major electoral victory this mr. trudeau's liberal

party won a parliamentary steveny and unseated harper and his conservative party. trudeau,f pierre former canadian prime minister regarded as the father of modern canada, the younger trudeau campaigned on a policy of infrastructure spending and higher taxes on the wealthy. he will also end canada's involvement against the islamic state, known as isil and isis, terrorist group in iraq. president obama hopes mr. trudeau will end canadian pressure on the u.s. government keystone xl the pipeline project. what does mr. trudeau's victory mean for u.s.-canadian relation, eleanor clift? eleanor: warmer relation with president obama. the outgoing prime minister, was a climate denier. trudeau says he will lead the

delegation to france later this year. the keystone pipeline, trudeau supports it but it's not at the core of his being as it for harper and what trudeau is advocating to pull the thedian economy out of doldrums is deficit spending and infrastructure spending and we to have that in this country, as well. so i think there will be a meeting of the minds between the two leaders. is pulling canadian planes out of the isil strikes but he canadianill continue involvement in training fighters on the ground. a minusculeanes are part of the u.s.-led mission so that as critical. tim: i don't think we turn to canada for their defense power theur operations but keystone thing is big because trudeau actually getting a parliament the without needing to pair up with the new democratic party that the have there, that was anti-keystone party and many thought trudeau would form a coalition with them. he didn't need that so the stock

of trans-canada, the keystone up 3 puerto% in early trudeauthe day after pulled off the majority. if the u.s. is pro-keystone, will warm relations. john: you like trudeau? think the deficit spending is horrible and it's a great experiment. andda goes into socialism we see how bad it goes. john: exactly. exactly right but the benefit is that we have the debate. we are going to see what happens spending.it canadian taxes at those higher rates are very high already and thingsee whether the same that happened in london and paris with the capital flight in canada. tim: will bieber move into the united states? experiment.great john: do you think that -- infrastructure spending, higher wealthy, to boost canada's economic growth. will it work? eleanor: yes.

yes. ryan: it will work. not rocket science. the this stuff is easy, when there's slack in the private public sector steps in, makes investments and the economy grows and as the economy more tax revenue comes in and your deficit in the long run ends up going down. john: does that add credibility to bernie sanders and hillary clinton's proposals to raise taxes on higher earners in this country? ryan: i think it does. makes a good point. canada is going through something like a recession dependent on oil revenue. with oil prices dropping, they're in a different economic point. keynesian argument does not apply. eleanor: there's something global going on between the u.k. and canada and the rise of bernie sanders and focus on government equality. electorates in various places are saying things are out of hand. elite --like the

tim: labor and socialists -- is the gap between canada and the u.s. likely to widen? ryan: we're still great friends. marijuana policy could be one place. as we talk about the inequality and moral issues, new liberalisms, liberals have little interest for people oppressed, the islamic state. john: canada's economy is in a mild recession. at 80 sends to the u.s. greenback. what will that mean for trade.nadian i ask you. you used to get to canada. well, i think -- i think the relationship will improve. eleanor: trading partner, but trudeau is not keying on the he'st trade pact so aligning himself with sort of the progressives in this country. so.: very much higher taxes on the wealthy and infrastructure spending. the wealthy paid their fair share, john.

tim: there's a lot of slack and problems facing u.s. industry today is that china and other countries are reducing their demand for u.s.-made stuff, raw materials, agriculture, other things like up inand if that keeps canada, that adds economic pressure so we take no joy in canadian recession that's going on there. but i think that the trudeau had to campaign on something, it's anti-americanism that's a big part of their politics there why they don't but to hate america distinguish themselves from america. eleanor: he campaigned in an optimistic way, he talked about doing things in sunny ways. sober up a little bit. in this country, political dynasties like the bushes and said to bes are falling out of favor. does trudeau's election belie that trend? or is he going to fulfill that trend? eleanor: i think hillary had weeks good a couple of here, i wouldn't say that the

clinton dynasty is falling out in canada,d i think they remember pierre trudeau fondly and they're glad to have justin. i won't comment. canada thinkple in that justin is all show so he'll closely in the coming months but i think it's fantastic that we'll see the seeriment in governance and what happens. john: we'll see bernie sanders and hillary clinton's proposals to raise taxes on higher earners, will we see that go through? eleanor: if one of them gets to the white house, yes. biden bows three, out. biden: as myt family and i have worked through the grieving process, i've said along, what i've said time and again to others, that it may that process,hat by the time we get through it, the window on mounting a

foristic campaign president, that it might close. has closed.ed it john: after months for grieving son, beau biden, who died earlier this summer, vice president joe biden told earlier this week he would not run for president. mr. biden's decision means the democratic presidential field is now three strong, including sanders,linton, bernie and martin o'malley. week, jim webb and lincoln chafee dropped out of the democratic race. hillary clinton supporters are breathing a sigh of relief. mrs. clinton's path to the democratic nomination seems open. nevertheless, mr. biden rebuked commentnton for her that republicans are enemies.uote vice president biden: i don't it'sve like some do that naive to talk to republicans.

i don't think we should look at republicans as our enemy. opposition, not our enemies. john: what made biden and chafee running?ainst tim? tim: part of it was what biden messageng, that his doesn't actually resonate with the democrats now, that idea of working with the republicans. have decided, as barack obama has, that that's sort of a bygone era. another is, he actually was sort of quasi running for a while. out, herying to figure was calling donors, he was calling would-be supporters to see if he could get them. i think he probably found so many were on the hillary train now, even if they would have ago, now theyths were already, you know, on board hillary. john: how did hillary edge biden out? eleanor: i don't think she edged out. john: to go off to the liberal position. eleanor: his only path was to democratic save the party from a front-runner that appeared to be in a death spiral. she performed well in the

debate. herself very well and he made the appropriate phone calls and would have come probably as a distant third. he would have taken votes away clinton, set the two of them up for a bloody fight and whoever survived, and probably would not be him -- so this was not a viable option for him. say one thing about the comment about republicans. a lightheartedn way, which asked what kind of enemies she made, she mentioned, the drug companies, maybe the insurance companies, the iranians. well, and i guess the republicans, too. as a senator, she worked across aisle with john mccain and many other republicans so i don't think she's closing down to the other side. but she has certainly given a fighter. she's ryan: and republicans were her

best friends at the benghazi hearing this week. they boosted her. one key factor in biden's decision, as we've learned, was clyburn of south anolina came out in interview with huffington post and said, joe, don't run. just a month earlier, clyburn, a huge power broker in south thelina, particularly with african american vote, which he said, joe, you should think about running. in a period of a month, that changed. deep respect for clyburn. john: hillary also used policy edge him off the radar. over the summer, she moved sharply to the left by opposing pipeline.ne remember that? t.p.p. trade agreement and opposing free tuition. tom: i disagree. i think hillary clinton has been that kind of bite

against the republicans and counter the base as it balances against bernie. john: who doesn't? tom: biden doesn't. biden has a reputation of being most decent men in d.c. john: hillary is indecent? tom: compared to him, yeah, she is. that speech she made, although ofwas articulating a lot liberal things, he was very passionate and actually i would some degree and i think a lot of democrats should watch that speech. john: prediction? york mets with win the world series in five games or fewer. eleanor: with congress' failure the gun issue, gun safety advocates are going to turn more to what are called smart guns, personalized guns, the n.r.a.guns and will resist that but it's going happen. will restoremer

unity in the republican party get higher ratings. ryan: paul ryan will survive for an entire year as speaker. ryan ispredict paul destined for political stardom the houset speaker of of representatives. if there is a republican victory in next year's presidential become one ofl the most politically prominent players in washington as the president's agenda is enacted. you want to add to anything i said? ryan: if he doesn't, he steps down. tom: i think he is very popular. unify and he brings, as well, i think he is important for the republican party in intellectual caliber he brings. view?you share that tim: yes. john: you think he's smart? tim: i do. player, he'll be a speaker of the house, you're a player. tim: ii -- know he's smart because

he tells us that regularly. john: bye-bye!

hello. welcome to kqed "newsroom." why isn't san francisco's mayor's race more competitive? we're going to look at that later in the show. first the future of driving. before long, you may be able to buy a self-driving car made by apple, google or tesla. those companies along with some of the world's biggest automakers are all vying for a piece of what's called the autonomous vehicle market. what will it look like when our cars drive us? who will be responsible for any crashes that occur? kqed