welcome to this edition of equal time. i'm your host, journalism school director, bob rucker. one of the biggest public libraries in california is right here on the campus of san jose state university. but there's friction between towns-people and academic gowns. i would hope personally that i'm not in anybodies way, or taking up someone's space. this space is shared by students and the community. and that includes the homeless population of silicon valley. we'll explore the needs of both sides on this edition of equal time. [music] some students here on campus are complaining,

about sharing the library with the homeless. but it's an important resource for people who have no place else to go. equal time correspondent estephany haro begins our coverage, looking at the benefits the homeless receive here. martin luther king jr. library is an institution in the heart of the silicon valley, open to everyone. it occupies 4th and san fernando streets. a key corner of san jose state university. the library has received multiple awards for its unique design and is a partnership with the city of san jose and san jose state university. what is isn't receiving any awards for is the fact that the library offers a home to the homeless. the hours are so extended you can take care of things and have time to come back and finish whatever it was that you were trying to do. the homeless can come here to use computers,

read books, and they even sleep on the floor, or sometimes slumped over desks. the building stays open to all until 9 o' clock most days. in eleven years, as library dean ruth kifer has come to understand how the homeless rely on the library. people who happen to be homeless aren't in the library to disrupt or to create any barriers for our students. they're just here sharing the space. and it appears to be done in a very successful way. denise white happens to be one of the homeless. she spends most of her day in the library, reading book after book. i've never seen such a selection in a library. i just had never been to a library of this size before.

denise white lost her home in september, spending labor day in the streets. just two days after new years, all her belongings were stolen at the palo alto transit center. since she was homeless she's been coming here to the library for her own safety. i'd rather come into the library any day if i could, rather than just -- -- you could hang around the streets and feel sorry for yourself. for most of the homeless, the library is just a place where they can peacefully sleep. it's where they can escape from reality. but you come in here and its like you're away from all of that. even if it's temporary. it's a place where they can find peace without getting in anybodies way. whole lot quieter in here than being out there on the streets, that's for sure. i mean you could take so much noise as the light rail and the busses and the traffic and the loud people.

and you come in here and it's almost a different world. however, the library doesn't just offer shelter for the homeless, like white. special services are available to them, such as social workers and lawyers. as well as brochures and fliers with information. social workers are in the library on a regular basis to help people who might have any number of issues. those people might be homeless it's open to everybody. so a student could avail themselves of that service as well. white finds these resources useful. i do have some court issues going on and when i do need help or references, i can usually find something. for some homeless people like white, the martin luther king library is home. the only thing where i wouldn't come in is if i show up here and i see a wrecking ball headed toward this building. that would keep me out of here, yeah. that would do it.

when we come back, we'll see what students and members of the public have to say about sharing the library with the homeless. stay with us. [music] [music] welcome back, we've seen some of the programs offered the homeless and the ways they benefit them here on campus. but some students and community members are saying, the homeless present problems. estephany haro continues our coverage. with nine floors, space doesn't seem to be enough for students. lower level, the second, and the third floor are equipped

with computers that are mostly used by the general public. and the top floors are where students like to go. sometimes we come to the library, we need to use our computers, we need to type up some homework, we need to get some things done for classes. and -- they're occupied, sometimes they're occupied. but they're not just occupied by any person. any -- anybody. but sometimes it's the homeless, sometimes... some san jose state students feel unsafe sharing the library with the homeless. however not only students say that there should be a separation line between the students and the homeless. a different a --- school library or different timing that most the kids come. you know, they got cars and everything. so a -- yeah probably a different a -- -- atmosphere for the kids, yeah. it seems like the university has kind of taken over

in running the -- running the show, as far as hours students, they seem to think it's, you know, party time, you know, bring take out food. (laughs) it's social. i mean, you got a student union. despite the complaints from the public and some students, the library will keep its doors open to all. our library is open to everybody. it's open to children who come in and come to story time. it's open to senior citizens. it's open to students, to faculty. it's open to wealthy people, who might live in a beautiful home. and it's open to people who may not even have a home at all. so it's open to all people who live here in silicon valley, and that's really important for a library and it's really important for me personally. i would hope personally, that i'm not in anybodies way or taking up someone's space, as they say. there are about four thousand homeless people

in the city of san jose, that can take full advantage of the services offered by the library. however, the library also offers extended hours only for students and for those who don't like sharing the library with the homeless. when we come back, we'll sit down with a former homeless person, along with some students, presenting both sides of the issue. so stay with us. [music] [music] welcome back to this edition of equal time. today our focus is on the martin luther king library at the san jose state campus. the shared space between students, faculty, and the homeless. let's meet our guests. i'm sandeep chandok, and i'm a journalism student

here at san jose state. i'm well aware of all the events and incidents that go on at the library and also who's there. i'm anthony king, i'm an intern and policy advocate for the silicon valley de-bug. i'm also a formerly homeless person who utilized the library. my name is veronica taylor, i'm a graduate from san jose state university. i'm actually an equal time alumni. and i currently contribute for the local paper, el observador. my name is terry hammer, i'm a graduate of southern illinois university. i'm a manufacturing engineer, and i utilize the library for my research, quite a bit. my name is estephany haro, and i am the correspondent for this story. i want to thank all of you for coming in to have this discussion. we all have opinions about this library and how it should be used, but anthony i want to go back, and if i may, i want to ask you a little bit about the concept of the homeless in the library. you spent some time being there as a homeless person. >> yes, i have. can we talk about that? well, when i was homeless one of the things you look for,

you're always in the public. from the time you wake up to the time you lay your head down you're always in the public. and one of the things that people do is utilize public services like the library. i believe that we have to remember that this library is a joint collaboration between the university and the city. and it was both -- it was funded with both resources from both groups. and the way we know that is as you enter the library it has a placard that's dedicated, on the left hand side to the university students, facility, and staff, and on the right hand side it's dedicated to the people of san jose. so this library, by default, is for all the people. it just happens to be located on san jose state's campus. now when you were there as a homeless person, did you have any push-back from anyone there? no -- what i think people are forgetting is the history of this library. when then mayor susan hammer, in 1997 and then university president bob caret -- began discussions about this library, the question began,

what about things like this, the homeless and other issues? and everybody from, even the board members, until it's opening in 2003, said this library would be inviting and welcoming to all. and it has been for the most part, it's one of the crown jewels of the san jose state campus but what are some of concerns of the students? what are some of the concerns for people that use the library? like you terry. uhm, i actually don't have a problem with the homeless people using the library, i mean. it is a public space, just because you're homeless doesn't mean you don't like to read and you don't like to use a computer. they just don't have access to, books and computers, you know if you're sleeping on the street. so i think it's an important resource, especially if you want to recover from homelessness. uhm, you need to send out resumes, you know, you need to stay up on current affairs. and, uh, you might wanna get a cup of coffee downstairs. you know, it's an important resource for homeless people.

and i understand people consider libraries homeless shelters. but, you know, i think most people, homeless people who do come to the library, take advantage of the resources. well sandeep was talking about how he's well familiar with the library as a student, is this a problem for students? i mean, at times it can be, but i do definitely agree with anthony and terry that it should be open for the homeless, as well as everyone in the city of san jose. because it is a public library. and as a student, when i go to library the main thing i'm there for is to, just to study. there is probably people that use - utilize the resources there more than i do, such as the computers and the books. because to be honest, i don't think i've ever used those, because i have my own laptop and i bring my own books that i need to study with. so i think it's, it's good that it is open to all, but there is definitely some security things that we need i think the school and the police department does need to crack down on.

with all the recent incidents that have gone on, just most recently, in march with this woman who was in the bathroom. and then there was a man who came around her and like groped her in the bathroom. i think something that definitely needs to be more looked into to make sure it doesn't happen again. >>estephany, i think that's one of the reasons why you chose this story. >> yes, i did. most of the students that i've talked to they complain about sharing the library and that's one of the main reasons, security. sometimes they, from what they told me, they are scared that, you know, because they don't really know who walks in and out, and uhm, so that's -- security is one of the reasons. another reason is, uhm, distraction. they tell me that sometimes they can't be focused because they have so many people doing different things that are not letting them focus on their homework and that's basically the two main reasons that -- that's why the want the library to be only for themselves.

veronica, you were a graduate of our program and you had an opportunity to use the library. the library was never suppose to be a comfort zone spot for students or faculty or staff. it's a place to learn, so why is it a big deal for students? well, i could tell you my personal feelings and my professional feelings about that to speak on a few different points. so, regarding incidents of rape and groping and things like that, to be completely honest, that is an issue for the male population. i will say that because, california in particular -- in california public education we're very into 'yes' means yes, instead of 'no' means no. so if your argument is that homeless people shouldn't be allowed in the library because somebody could get raped or groped, i'm sorry, that is not a homeless problem. that is more of a rhetoric that the male population needs to understand that. instead of teaching women that, "oh, don't go in the restroom by yourself. go in pairs." i'm sorry, you should probably teach men to not rape or grope people. that's really what the argument is, so to me that's not really valid.

and my second point in that, coming from a student who has spent many, many hours in that library for this class, for other classes. it's -- you really need to understand to check your privilege and that this is a community. if your biggest issue is that, i don't want to share my space with someone that i'm uncomfortable with, that i don't like, then you really need to check your privilege. because if that's your biggest problem in life, that you can't find a different floor, you can't book a private study room, which is specifically for you, then there are more important things. and i guess, my third point would be homeless people are not a blanketed population. they're not all the same. they're some emancipated youth that were kicked out of the system and weren't checked on, so they're homeless because of that. there are people that got into an unfortunate medical situation. and unfortunately, the medical bills -- its either pay your medical bills or pay your rent. which one are you going to choose? that's a difficult choice to make. and i guess everyone's situation is different

and considering that escaping poverty, what is it? like only 30% ever escape, around that statistic. how can you really argue the space isn't for you when homeless people, in general, that entire population has a different rhetoric. especially in san jose, knowing that we don't have "the jungle" anymore, so where are they going to go? and like i said, this is a public space, its a community. whether you like it or not, in particular if you're homeless, you are a part of the community. >> now anthony, she's speaking some interesting points here. what are the responsibility of the people who are homeless though? you heard what she said we should be doing, going into the library as faculty, and staff, and students. what about the homeless, do they have a responsibility? >> i believe personal accountability is a big thing for everyone. but we have to look -- if we look at it systemically and institutionally, you can't ask as person to be personally accountable if you're not empowering them with the tools to do so. public safety, in any public space, in any space is a great concern, but what i find peculiar about this situation

is last year when the student had that u-lock tied around his neck, there wasn't -- there wasn't a -- that was in his room. >> you're talking about the dormitory incident >> dormitory, yeah. >> 2013, yes. and that particular situation, goes to show that, public safety on this campus, and in this city needs to be addressed on wide -- on a wide scale, and not be limited to trying to to narrow certain classes. and then blanket them, and then target them as the problem. >> i wouldn't argue that point, i think you make a good point as well. but i'm asking a different question, if you are homeless in the library, do you have a responsibility to see what's going on there and to try to accommodate the needs of the location, as opposed to get out of the way, this is my space too. >> i have not heard of any incidents where am person, a member of the homeless community has done such a thing. i've -- there's been no type -- now, i can speak to myself being a library utilizer,

and being accosted by students, who were coming back at night, drunk. i actually was, had a beer can thrown at me and me and the student got into an altercation. when the campus police arrived, i was targeted as the aggressor. but once the story came out and i actually wanted to file charges, everything was quietly, well no, no, let's, you know. and the student happened to say, "oh well i'm from oklahoma, we don't have hobos out there." so i think, >> the student actually said that to you? >> yep, he actually said it to the campus police man. so what i believe needs to happen is through some type of student or faculty program, there needs to be education going on. there needs to be, and as the previous speaker said, there, there are many causes to homelessness. i mean when we look at it, we've.. since this library has opened we've been through many economic downturns. and in a prosperous region like this, that drives -- that drives -- that same prosperity drives a lot of --

drives a lot of displacement for those in low income and extremely low income classes. any of us is just a paycheck away from being homeless. >> it's true and you know we hear that constantly in our society estephany, you had some other thoughts, because you've researched this story. >> yes, uhm, i know that the library does offer some programs for the homeless people, and i wanted to know, anthony, if you ever used those programs? such as lawyers in the library and social workers. >> i actually did not use, i used the lawyers in the library when it was in the old mlk library on san - on san carlos street. i've never had to utilize the social workers in the library program. but i do have many peers that do. they -- it's actually a great stepping stone for those who are trying to transition into other traditional housing programs and it's a real valid source of information. but another thing as terry said, you know, people who are homeless and people who are working with case management groups, their personal accountability component is actually going out and looking for residences

to apply their subsidies to, if they are fortunate enough to get one. and one of the biggest resources in doing that is using the computers that are here in the library. >> one of the most fascinating things i hear, since i've been on this campus for 25 years is many people are accommodating at the library. many people actually will reach out and ask if you need any help and that sort of thing. but terry, i was going to ask you, personal hygiene seems to be the concern for some people on this campus. using the restroom to get ready in the morning and students or staff or faculty walking in and seeing that. that's a concern, i think for some people. it is, you know i often come into the library and there's people bathing in the bathroom, shaving. i mean, good for them. they want to, you know, be clean and everything. but i don't know if it's the appropriate place. you know i think guys are probably a little easier to get along with than if a woman went into her bathroom and there's a woman trying to bath herself. you know a guy goes into the bathroom and sees him shaving and washing the face, i think we can you know, let that pass.

>> well you can go in some corporate places and see that people rushing between meetings and such. >> yeah, yeah. so to me, for me, i'm a pretty easy going guy. it doesn't seem to bother me so much. but, you know, there's guys in there that'll take up a bathroom for an hour and a half. you know, cause they're bathing and changing clothes and repacking their bag and things like that. you know, it's a little bit annoying, but for me, course i'm not a student, but you know, for me, i can go along with it. >> alright, and since we have sandeep here i know you want to jump in on this conversation, i'm gonna play a little devil's advocate with you on this one, go ahead, what are your thoughts about what you've heard so far. >> i actually agree a little bit with terry. you know, i'm an easy going guy also, if i walked into the bathroom and i saw, you know, a homeless man shaving or something it wouldn't bother me, i mean. he needs to keep himself groomed and cleanly. so it's not like -- first off, it's not my place to say anything, so i wouldn't. and in terms of like people bathing, i mean, if that's what

they need to do, i guess you have to do it. but i also think, like terry was saying, that it's not the place the correct place to do it. so, i mean, in terms of what other places they could go to to do that, i mean, that's a resource they could probably find out through the library and research, you know, using the computers. >> well where else could you go on campus to do that? >> on campus, i'm honestly not too sure >> and i don't think the athletic department's going to open up their facilities >> absolutely not. that's the only place on campus that's open to both the public and to students. so... >> estephany, what did you find out about this? >> well i do find that, i've talked to some homeless lady and she did tell me that she does use the restrooms to shower because she has no where else to go. so, i feel that if students don't want homeless people to be in their departments showering then, you know, they should be allowed to, i mean, they do shower in there. but as long as they don't bother anyone, i mean, i don't think they should be a problem, but most of, a lot of students also say that health issues is one of the reasons why they don't want homeless people.

>> they're worried about getting diseases or colds or something >> and that's a reason why students mostly like to go to the top floors which are the sixth, seventh, and eighth floors. because they say homeless will most likely not go up there because the computers are on the first and the second floor. so that's one of the reasons why they, some of them like to go on the top floors, to not be near them. >> and veronica, let me get you back in this conversation. what do you think students, faculty, and staff could do in terms of letting the homeless come in and helping communicate better, interaction. you know, i've seen students say, "i don't talk to them." well why not? >> as a unit, i think the rhetoric kind of needs to change towards community, so by that i mean whether some in particular san jose state it's always been a very politically progressive campus.

like time for ten, san jose state, and just a lot of things that our university has done for the city of san jose, we've always worked in partnership together. so something we could do, in particular, for the homeless people, more collaboration and education why are you homeless? what can we do to help you not be homeless? and there's actually some progressive programs in other states, where they did the math as a city and they realized hey instead of cleaning up all these encampments, instead of calling the police on everybody you know what, we're actually saving money by actually making real shelters for them. so they don't have to do all the clean ups they don't need the police to be kicking everybody out. they already have a specialized space, and if they want to keep it clean, that's fine, so that's a very progressive program. so, same thing as what san jose state has always done, worked together with the city of san jose and if this is an issue, then we can solve it. because something has always been done historically. >> and in the short time remaining, i should make note that

community groups, as well as religious organizations churches, mosques, etc., are starting to open their doors to the homeless. i know of one in particular that actually had homeless women staying in their churches, when at certain times, people would have thought, "no, no, we can't do that, it's a safety issue." but they found a way to make it happen. is that important for the homeless community to know? that more and more places are trying to make it happen. >> it's important for the homeless community to know, it's important for the whole community to know. but what's lamentable about that situation, it's great that the winter faith collaborative was able to get together a clusoriam of churches to open their doors. but when we look at all programs that speak to homelessness, it's about scale. one of the things that, and i work closely with the members of the winter faith collaborative i know many of them. the organizers and the actual participants in the program. but what i find lamentable about all programs is the scale. as veronica was speaking of earlier, in other states and stuff like that, there is a model that is applied

called the housing first model. and that model basically states that if you give a person a house first all the other impediments that they have will slowly fall off over time. >> so make those things available and then you don't have these other concerns to worry about. we're going to have to cut it at this point. but very good. thank you all for this conversation. and thank you for joining us, we hope you'll come back for another edition of equal time. [music] [music]

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