good evening from los angeles i'm t tavis smiley, fir a conversation with actress ruth negga. her nmpbs "loving" has many predicting an oscar nomination. she'll talk about her project as well as her love of american history. then pivot to a conversation with steve jones, the rock legend and talk pioneer joins us to discuss his new book, lonely boy, about his life and career with the sex pistols. we're glad you've joined us. all of that in just a moment. ♪ ♪

and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. please welcome ruth negga to this program, "loving" was nominated for a golden globe and received quite a bit a oscar buzz. before we start our conversation with her tonight, first a sampling of her critically acclaimed interpretation of the real life.

>> i bought it. this whole ache er. >> i'm going to build you a house. right here. our house. found it. >> yeah? >> would you marry me? >> first of all, you were amazing in this. >> she says yes. >> she does. she says yes. and their marriage leads them all the way to the u.s. supreme court, ruth negga, honor to have you. that was cute. i was supposed to say that after

that clip. >> were you? >> you didn't even know that. i didn't read my teleprompter. thank you for that cue. you're an actor and director. >> yeah. you were amazing. just phenomenal. and i read a quote from you somewhere, this story of course is in virginia. you're born in ethiopia. >> raised in ireland, london. and i read somewhere that you said that virginia reminded you of ireland. >> it did. >> what'd you mean by that? >> first of all, it is the nature of it such a beautiful place. green where we shot in green and central points. >> uh-huh. >> on location. >> sure. >> where this couple lived. just the country side really and that kind of rural energy reminded me very much of the fields of home. >> yeah.

>> so, raised in ireland and then in london. how did you come to learn of this story of more broadly what did you know of the civil rights movement in this country? >> well as a teenager, i loved history and i became fascinated with american history. >> why? >> well, every christmas ken burns documentary db. >> here on pbs. >> not what you saw. exactly. yes. >> i sort of just started learning about american history and also what interested it seems to me america's racial history. >> yeah. so i suppose i just became a secret. >> what did you find so fascinate about the race issue in this country? >> well it's -- my interest peeked early on.

i think just how i'm interested in how country are like evolving. and constantly in the making. you know, nothing is ever made. it's always evolving. america has such a wide group of people living in it. you know, and i just thought and i'm fascinated how a country comes to terms with a legacy of flavor. and the civil rights history, i'm just fascinated by these people who changed the world. just very invigorated. >> before you were approached to do this, how much of this story or if any, did you know? >> interestingly enough the genesis was a documentary called the loving story that nancy made for hbo.

and he had come across that in 2008 and that's how i first found out about this couple. and i went searching for more information about them and i was surprised at how relatively little could be found considering what they achieved. they changed the constitution of the united states of america. >> and so she discovered that there was footage from a contemporary documentary which never left for some reason. she wove into this a beautiful documentary. when i was approach for the film, they sent me a huge documentary. and absolutely fell in love. absolutely. i challenge anybody to watch this documentary and not fall for them. >> how cool is it that something that you were already interested

in, that is to say american civil rights history ends up being a role that you're offered to star in? >> it's extraordinary. and i feel privileged and grateful. i think when you start out, you know, wanting to act, it's not just for sort of personal gratification, it's about connecting the people and hopefully contributing positively to the evolution of the world. humanities. so, you know, i think that you want to use your tools and your voice to contribute to conversations and maybe, you know, in this instance shining a light on a couple that really should be celebrated. and it's not just in a black story, it's not just an american story, it's a story for the world. and to be able to share that and be part of that, it's, you

know -- it's the pinnacle. >> yeah. >> to your point about why you wanted to become an actor, number one, that was not too grand. so it makes perfect sense to me, but number two, i was moved watching meryl streep and her comments at the golden globes the other night. i was moved by, and yet my name wasn't mentioned in her talk, your name was. how did it feel? this is your first golden globes i take it. >> yes. >> how did it feel to be in this great film? nominated far golden globe, you're sitting in the audience, and meryl streep shouts you out. name checks you, yeah. how did you process that moment? >> i haven't processed it. >> that was like three or four days ago and you're still working on it. >> i just, i'm just -- it's incredible. i feel that was sort of the landmark. people are going to be talking about that speech for a very long time.

i've admired meryl streep's work from afar as of most of the universe, so to have born witness to it, to be in the room, kpfs an extraordinary out of body experience. and i think we were all moved a and, you know, the idea that she -- you know, artists do have voices. we don't need contributions, i think she's spoke to so many neem an eloquent way, and i just know there was a lot of tears. >> yeah. >> in the room? >> yeah. >> for what it's worth all the women on my staff and the men for that matter as well loved your dress. >> so did i. >> yeah, i think they loved it more than they did. i think everybody was talking about your dress. >> this is a privilege that comes with being recognized for your work is that, you know, these amazing artists, you know

it's extraordinary. never in my wildest dreams that could happen. and from move it on. >> uh-huh. >> custom made. it was amazing. i don't know what you call it. kind of like a joan of arcs. and it's lovely because these things can be quite overwhelming. and you know, and i think, you know, they are important because they give you a confidence. and they were another form of expression. >> how have you processed the way that americans are embracing this story here? the way they're just reveling in what this movie is all about. >> oh gosh, it's extraordinary. so we do a lot of screening and q and as for the screenings. and you know, a lot of the audience members ask questions and speak. and what seems to moving is that so many people -- we've introduced this couple to so to so many people and they are

having conversations whether it's, you know, i can't believe i haven't heard about this or people saying thank you for baring witness to a story that is many people's story. many people's parent's stories. you know, and i think if you can be part of that conversation, it's an extraordinary feeling. >> you know, you can't appreciate this because you're so young, but what's fascinating is to sit in a movie theater or to watch a screener and prepare for a conversation like this and you're watching a movie, a story i knew a little bit about, but you're sitting there watching this film. and then these titles come up on the screen and you realize what year it was. how relatively recent this was. and you sit there and look like i was and you're like, i was already born when this happened. >> it's extraordinary.

>> it's arresting for the spirit to realize that i was actually leifing at a time -- we think all these were fought so many centuries ago. no, i was actually born when they were petitioning the supreme court to be married. and that's the part that really drives the story home. >> and that's what a ally of people have shared with us as well. >> i mean, and we have this idea, we'd like to think because we're all striving for a better world, we'd like to their fought and adjusted. but the quality. is an ever evolving thing, it's something that we all have to be vigilant about. and contribute to. and i think some like ours, you know, the impact they have on people is to remind us of such. remind us that come play san si can kill. you know, it's something that we have to be ever cognizant of

that we must surround ourselves. humanity is something to be fought for. it's not something that we can just, you know, sit back and let someone else do. it's every individual is responsibility. >> dwloon i've ever seen a film that was so quiet but spoke to me so loudly. does that make sense? to you i think it does. it's a quiet film. there's not a bun of stuff jumping off, just the story two of people who love each other. and it's such a beautifully, softly, quietly told story that was such a monumental part. i've just never seen, the director did a marvelous job. >> testament to the story teller. >> yeah. >> and a director. i think that was very important for him because that's all they were doing. they weren't -- you know, and they're kind of not reluctant

activists, but i'm assuming. you know, they just wanted to be together and to be in love. and that's the authenticity of their story. and i think it was very important for jeff to make that platform last rather than any sort of histrionics. and i think that's what jeff does as a film maker. >> he doesn't follow sort of rules, rules of film making. and in the mix it makes him a true original. and he wanted to put mildred and richard at the forefront. he circumvented the courts for that reason. and actually because, you know, they only met the lawyers three or four times over the course of nine years. and they didn't actually go to the supreme court hearing. so we were -- it's about truth telling for pus. >> you nailed it. >> thank you. >> it is a quiet, but powerfully arresting film called loving.

if you're been introduced to her the first time, you'll see her face many times over. she's a wonderful actress. thank you. >> my pleasure. up next, steve jones, stay with us. please welcome steve jones to the program. the rock legend is the co-founder of the sex pistols and telling his story finally in a new memoir. it's called lonely boy, tales from a sex pistol, mr. jones, it's an honor. >> thanks for having us. >> we were discussing before you came on the air, it is a bit of a -- everybody says it, but it is true i think in your case, and want to read you book that music really saved your life. you were getting into a lot of trouble as a kid. >> yeah, and this saved my life too. >> i had a horrible stepfather.

and he fiddled me, he fiddled me one time, but it was enough to spin me out. and after that happened, i would just be addicted to stealing, peepg tomming, whatever it was, and that was my mechanism of dealing with that. and then of course i was always into music, music was a big thing. and, you know, drugs and alcohol, but i was constantly -- not that that was the main reason. >> reporter: sure. >> that i did that, but it was definitely steered me in and i didn't feel safe being at home. i just wanted to go out every day to kind of cover up the pain. and i did that from feeling. its wasn't even about stuff, i was about going on a mission every day. because before going in the park and looking at ducks, then it was like i had to do something. and that was the way i went really all through my life until

i got clean and sober. that drive to fix in some form or another. >> the music did what for you? when you listen to it? when you flay? music is what for you? >> well, it's everything. i mean regardless of my upbringing, i have that gene where i love music and i love good music, i think what's good music. one of the big songs and it was all generas too. >> sure. >> when i was ten at a fun fair and sitting at the doctor was playing, and i was obsessed with it. i'm like ten years old and i just sat in a fun fair, one of them rides hoping that it was going to play again. i waited three hours for it to be -- i wanted to hear that song again. i never did and it closed. but the fact that i was that

obsessed with various songs and it didn't have to be any genera, it was what i considered classy music, you know. >> when you say good music, i hear you and this wasn't lost on me. when you say you listen to and like good music. good music as you see it, what's good music for you? kwinz si jones says good and bad. >> good for you. >> well everyone's got their -- music is music, maybe there isn't good and bad. >> yeah. it's whatever appeals to you. when some people like something, i'm like that is terrible. you know, but for me, growing up as a kid, i was very into scar, which was called blue beat at the time. i was a skinhead when i was 12 years old. not the later ones, i used to have a lot of friends i got into

glam rock like david bowie and rod stewart and the faces. that was like my big inspiration. when you're very what'd you call it, you know, that kind of set the stage for stuff that i would like. which was the next step. >> and i couldn't play. >> yeah. >> and i thought i was playing like david beau we. >> in your mind? >> in my mind i was. what came out was kind of like -- well, you know what, you can't diss what you did because this album is 40 years old. this lp belongs to my director

jonathan, he's had obviously for a long time. this album is 40 years old, and what's amazing about this is, it is the only album you fans know that the sex pistols ever did and it only took this one album to get them inducted into the rock and roll hall of fame. so i asked mr. jones, how does one do one record and end up in the rock and roll hall of fame? >> i have no idea. i have no idea. nothing was planned when you're 19 and stupid. you don't know what you're doing, but we knew what we were doing as far as what we wanted to convey. >> but, you know, you never know what you're doing. and then next week after anything, anything could happen -- >> 40 years later though. you may not know what you were doing then, but obviously it worked and people loved it and still love it 40 years later. may have not known what you were doing then, steve. when you hear this now, 40 years later, what do you hear? were you too hard on yourself?

>> i appreciate it. tags good album. and we spent a lot of timen to. that was like my best period in the band was recording that album. it wasn't doing shows. we picked a really good record producer and because a lot of people thought you just go in the studio and it's done. you know, but we didn't, we spent a lot of time to get that right. and the producer, chris thomas who's a well known producer at the time, spent a lot of time with me. i don't even play like a year. i was limited. but we kind of pulled it off. >> you didn't want to pull it off because you don't even plan a year when you did this album. >> yeah. >> and yet, you went on to become a good enough guitarist, the rolling stone lists you as one of the 100 best guitarists of all time. i think you turned corner at some point. >> 97. >> but you made the list, man.

you made the list. if you're 101, nobody would know. you made the list. >> yeah. >> that's a huge honor. >> yeah. >> what made you decide at this point? i suspect there's something symbol outic about this thing 40 years old and you open up why open up at this point, steve? number two, i'm glad you did because no reason to do if you're not goinged to. why be so honest, so transparent? >> that's who i am. i'm always this guy, the youngest guy, and i don't really like hiding behind -- there's too much stuff in the world where it's hiding behind not the truth. and i think it's refreshing to really just threat all out. you might alienate some people, you might not like you the same if they find out stuff about you. but for me it's the only way to go. truth is the only way. whether it's right or wrong. >> as an adult, and detail it so beautifully in the book, so earnestly, how did you survive

the lonely times? how do you survive those lonely boy times? >> well, i still have it. i'm still lonely at moments, but i'm tweshl relationships. so i prefer just to keep by myself. i can't have relationships. >> and have you figured out why? >> oh man, i like my stuff in order. i don't like people moving my stuff around. you're a virgo, you know that. >> my mom is laughing, she's visiting today and she knows snow well. she's laughing because you said that. don't touch my stuff. i like my stuff in a certain order. >> and plus, i mean, there's nothing wrong with relationships and having kids, but most of my friends or most people i know about, they get married, they have kids, they break up, and it's a nightmare. you know. so i prefer -- it's not that i prefer to be alone. i don't really have the option. as soon as i have a relationship, or i get feelings

for someone, there's a light that switches off and it's like it's over. >> so what brings you joy? what do you find the joy in your life? >> nature, i like being in nature a lot. that's what i'm more attracted to these day. being good other people. i never used to be that. and kind of helping others. it gives me more joy. helping younger people who not opportunist. scenarios you see, just be nice to someone. i get off on that, that keeps me growing. >> still growing? still learning. on the radio gig? >> yeah. >> off lot of fans, man. you have a lot of fans on that radio firm. >> doing all right. >> you've been doing better than all right, brother, better than all right. steve jones, he's finally opening up and telling his story. 40 years later. 40 years after that one album. from the sex pistols.

never mind that, here's the sex pistols, got you in the hall of fame. his book is called "lonely boy: tales from a sex pistol" steve jones, good to have you, sir. and thank you for being o open and honest. >> all right mate. thanks a lot. that's our show for tonight -- >> i like the way you say bullet. >> you like that? >> yeah, it's good. >> that's our show, good night. good night from l.a., and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> hi i'm taste smiley join me next time as we join dr. martin luther king jr. that's next time. see you there.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

good evening from los angeles i'm travis smiley, tonight a conversation with denzel washington, he joins us to talk about his third direct tomorrow effort. fences, starring himself and recent golden globe winner, viola davis. we're glad you joined us, denzel washington, in just a moment. ♪ ♪ ♪