good evening from los angeles i'm travis smiley, tonight a conversation with denzel washington, he joins us to talk about his third direct tomorrow effort. fences, starring himself and recent golden globe winner, viola davis. we're glad you joined us, denzel washington, in just a moment. ♪ ♪ ♪

and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. pleased to welcome denzel washington back to the program. the two-time oscar winner actor has an outstanding body of work that includes films like glory and training day of course, and now connect philadelphia and the hurricane, american gangster, i could do this all day and all night. flight. most recently of course magnificent seven, star and director in fences, the film damgs of the beloved august wilson play. the film is in theaters. mr. washington, first a scene from "fences."

>> oh, we come here. ohio, look at your photo. when i first met this woman, i got out that and hitched up my pony, saddled up my man, there's a woman out there for me somewhere. and i looked at him, looked at there and i latcheden to her. i latched on to her and i told -- i'm going to tell you the truth, i latched on to her and told her, baby, i don't want to marry, i just want to be your man. rose told me, telling him -- >> if he wasn't a mankind and move out the way so the mankind could find me. you're in my way. >> you're blocking the view. move out the way so i can find me a husband. thought it over two, three days -- >> come back, told her, okay, baby, but i'm going to buy a baggy rooster, he going to flap his wings and crow. i haven't washed that front door my myself. that was that back door i was

worried about. >> sometimes the best part of this show happens when you can't see. so while the clip was playing, how long are you filming this? >> i don't remember. a year ago. >> no, not even a year. >> okay. >> eight months. >> so the clip is playing, and he's sitting here all these months later reciting his lines. >> i edited the picture, i'm watching it over and over. >> what's amazing to that about me though is what happens when august wilson's words get in your spirit. when i is that true film, first let me start by saying thank you, i talked to a thousand friends who have all seen this man, and i think there is this -- as i talked to my friends, there is this overwhelming desire just to say thank you to you. people run into you on the street, and this is a dent, putting this thing on film. >> really? >> i think so. i mean, nobody's -- it's the first time it's been given this kind of treatment. to put it on film, it's a beautiful thing.

as many times as i've seen this play, of course saw you in broadway. when i saw it on film. his words, the power of his words hit if he a different way. it made me appreciate the stuff even more, the words. because we're here. >> yeah. you know, in a play, whatever -- depending on what ticket you've got. you watch the whole thing at once and you decide where you're going to look. usually based upon who's speaking. but in a film, the decision to editorial, and you're this close. you're very close. so you feel like you just feel -- it's just closer. it's more effective. and we have the -- i took the luxury of chl spending time with people when they're alone. there's a scene when troy knocks all the stuff off the table, and now we're alone with rose. we didn't have those moments in the play. you know, he'd walk out and the lights would go down, but here we stay. we get to feel what rose is feel

pg. >> yeah. >> what do you hope people come away with or put another way, are forced to wrestle with when they have to marinate on his words? >> i always say this, it depends -- people ask me what do you want people to get from this? right, i always say it depends on what they bring to it. some are destroy, some are the sun. i've met people we've been doing screenings all around and q & a, and one screening i like to come in, sit the last five minutes and just get a feel of the order. and i saw an empty seat and i sat down, it was a guy who was really -- irish guy, redhead guy. right guy. and it was really -- he was struggling. >> yeah. >> and i leaned over and said you okay? he said yeah, you know. i said you up there? he said -- i said is that you up there, he says my father. and i said well are you the son? no, my brother was a son. great athlete.

and so, you know, it's universally, it's specifically an african american family, but the themes are universal. >> what do you make of the fact that august wrote something that was so specific and yet, to your point now, i'm glad you gave me that example, it is so universal? >> i think if you try to please everybody, you don't please anybody. so he wrote about what he wanted to write about, about this family. and, like i said, the themes are universal. i mean, the specificity of it is what's so universal. what's so effective. i mean, just the way troy -- because it's his frustrations, the way he beats down his son and just won't allow him to -- and the son says, what all sons want to say. just because you didn't have a chance and takes it further, afraid that was going to be better than you. >> yeah. >> i had the honor of working out in the same gym you work out in. i see you in the gym a lot. and we talked about this while you were working on and edit lg,

i did not know, i did not know that august actually wrote the screen play for this. >> yeah. i mean, the screen play just 25,000 words, 24,900 are august wilson. >> right. >> so i had to add a little thing here. and it was also a deciding where scenes were going to take place because in the play they were all in the backyard. we have to present it to the audience. we obviously moved in the house and to the front of the house and, you know, then on to really one of the big decisions that i had to make was, or that was nervous about was bringing rose to his job. >> right. >> because i was never in the play. and that's a big statement and it sort of -- it tweaked the balance of things against troy because she's making the extra effort. she's going out of her way and he still rejects him. >> with what amount of trepidation does one approach

even tweaking august's work? given that you had to put stuff in that wasn't in the play? >> i read different versions of it, so there are longer versions of the play. >> right. >> his original version is much longer, a lot longer. there were cuts made anyway. long before me. so, you know, i have to do what's best for the film. >> yeah. so it's one thing to write something that is specific -- it's another both specific and universal, but it's another thing to write specific, universal, and accessible. and i can tell you now, and i wouldn't -- i didn't have the nerve to tell you when you were woshingen to. you did a brilliantly. what worried me most is whether or not you could make on film august's stuff accessible because as you know web the stage is one thing, film is something else, and the stable and the mind of a lot of people, especially the work can be labeled highbrow for people that don't want to have a patience to wrestle with it. were you ever afraid that you would have trouble making it

accessible? >> i didn't -- no. no. i didn't think about that or i didn't -- i mean, my point is this, when you watch august's stuff, you got to wrest wl that thing. it's not acting. i mean you ain't got a bunch of stuff flying through the air, pyrotechnics. >> you mean you've got to listen? >> that's what i mean. >> imagine that. which is why i started the film in black. >> exactly. >> so that you had to lean forward and listen. i did that on purpose. >> yeah. >> you know, so that you would listen. >> what made you feel that people in an era where fans are like that, faster than that would sit, be patient, take it in, listen. that's a risk to take. >> they need water. they need water. and it just reels you in. at first it seems like entertainment or just fun and i remember kenny leon directed

this on broadway, kenny said troy is television there. he is the television. friday night he gets the same lines, they know he's going to tell them. and they all -- it's the rich youl. >> yeah. >> when did you know that you wanted to or were going to do this as a film? when did you commit yourself to that? >> when they made me? scott roouden, one of the producers asked me seven years ago. >> yeah. >> and i read the screen play and i realized i hadn't read the play. i read the play and said troy, 53. well, i was 55 when i read it. and i'm thinking, because when i saw it in the '80s, i'm looking at it through cory's eyes because i was younger. i'm thinking i was too young for troy, but when i read it and said 53, oh, i better hurry up. so i called scott and said, i want to do the play.

>> how much thought time you put into, how much time you had to wrestle with it on film. >> well, you know film-making is the collaborative process. you put some of the best people around you, editor, and you all work together, and you want to inspire them and so, i don't think -- i know enough i've been around long enough to know that i don't think i know everything. so i put the best around me, let them do what they do. ultimately i have to make the final decision, let the best do what they do. let viola go. i'm going start directing now. >> well you are the director. >> and i did direct. you know, but the smartest thing i did as a director was to take michael t. and steven and viola and who i am leaving out, russell, the guys that did it, the core group that did it on

broadway, take it to film. he's a guest on this program next week. >> are you? >> he killed that role. >> he killed it. >> he killed it. boom. that's how that go. that's the way this go. and i can do it. >> i love that, man. >> keep doing that, i'm directing. >> when we did the play, i was always in the dressing room, i never saw the end of the play. >> yeah. >> that much and maybe i saw it in rehearsal. so when we were reverse hearsing the film for the film, and he said that's the way they're going and ran off there, i was like, what you doing? i said you didn't even say it. no, i'm done. like he got to go off and deal with other problems. >> delivered it masterfully. >> bang, and what's great, i figured it out on the day was we changed the angle and the girl looks at him. the little girl, and she's like, i'm going with him. i don't know where he's going, but i'm going with him. >> yeah. any director i suspect has to be very careful about the choices they make and what they're going to direct.

you've done this a few times now. how did you see "fences" fitting into your direct tomorrow body of work? >> thank you for thinking that i even thought that way. >> august wilson -- >> i mean, you didn't -- >> pulzer prize. >> no, i don't. >> let me tell you. >> okay. >> this is not a willy nilly decision. you can have agreed to act in this, but to put your namen to as director -- >> i i wanted someone else to direct it. >> now i'men to something here, see. >> i was just qualified for the job, i guess. nobody, i didn't know anybody other than kenny that knew the material better than me. but i had, you know -- i don't know. i just did it. i'm overthinking it then. >> yes. >> okay. that's my story and i'm sticking to it. >> yeah, i'm not buying that, but i'm going let you have that. >> thank you. thank you. >> you have been everywhere talking about the brilliance of

your decision to keep that cast in retrospect, how brilliant was it really though? >> it went brilliant at all. that's a no-brainer. >> viola davis is brilliant. me choosing her is not brilliant, she's brilliant. like i said, guys like steven and michael tee and russell, especially steven, who's a great actor who hasn't gotten that -- he hasn't been seen as much as some of us, but had done as much. you know, so i was happy to -- flost way i would have changed that. >> oh yeah. >> you have had so many just huge successes in the course of your career. in film. number one film is money making film. but i have to believe that you have a different way of judging the success of your work and it's not just about box office numbers. if i'm wrong about this, tell me i'm wrong. >> sometimes it is.

it's called show business. you know, you know, if i loan you $25 million, i want my money back. i don't to want hear how good of an experience it was. i want to get that. >> i got you. >> yeah man, this is business. i want my money back. >> oh, you will not -- anymore for me again. i'm glad it was good for you. but wasn't good for me. >> okay. >> here he is. i get the box office and it's getting critical, but when you approach a project like this, i mean, you knew this wasn't going to be a $200 million. this wasn't rogue nation. and it doesn't need to be. >> that's my point. going into this, what was your definition, your measure of success for this project? >> you got it done? >> i didn't look at it that way. i didn't look at it, we've had so much success. >> it was more about, you know, this. we were a big hit on broadway and won all the awards. i think we were -- i think, we

were nominated for more tony's as a drama or straight play than any other play in the history of the tony, something like that. so that was the pressure. it was already good. will it work as a film? can i deliver it? and you know, it worked out all right. >> um -- the film again is universal. i may get myself into trouble here. it has universal themes, but was there a part of you that hoped that black america would see this in a particular way, accept in a particular way, did you have any thought about that? >> i made too many movies to try to figure out what people should, you know, just put it out. it stands on it's own. get it out there, and the people will decide that. i don't know what people feel. or, you know, i'm glad that they're getting a chance to experience the brilliance of

august wilson. >> not everybody gets a chance to go to broadway. >> right. >> or see a play or can afford to get in or whatever. or even knows what the theater experience is about. black people love to watch film. so i thought -- and that's why i said thank you for just doing this because it made his material. so much more available for people to see to appreciate and go steady. who else did this guy write? what else did he do? in that sense, i saw the movie hidden figures the other day. as a matter of fact, the guest on the show earlier this week. and it's hard to watch a film like that that's a person of color and just not be proud of what that story's about. these three black women at nasa helped get us up into space. it's hard to sit and watch that and not be proud of this guy, denzel washington for doing it. the people who starred in it. do you have a pros? you don't process any of that. >> yeah, yeah. i'm like, you know, i'm trying to get the folks in the theater. and you know, i'm happy.

>> yeah. >> yeah. >> i get sense you went, i'm going follow you there. you don't spaend the lot of time in introspection, you are busy doing the work you don't have the time or you don't take the time. >> when i was in college, i still do it, i remember we had a blow dryer. whatever. and i pull midhair back and people was like why do you have your hair back? because i'm going that way. the wind. >> i like that. >> i'm just a forward i had thinker. i don't apologize for it. i'm just a forward thinker. i'm an aggressive thinker and i believe things -- i believe in myself. >> yeah. >> so everybody else studies your body of work. when, if ever, are you never going to get around to like really trying to assess what you put oefbl for us to see? everybody else talks about it. >> that's not my job. you know, it's just to do. i mean, i don't know. i don't know what good -- oh, look at me. i was good, wasn't i?

>> you are busting my chops today, man. i've got to go somewhere. >> no, no, i'm just teasing. >> i'll go with you. >> so. >> reporter: becau-- >> because i look better. >> you were better than good. so at this point, we see what you did with "fences," it is different from manager any of sent seven than the east from the west and the north and the south. and at this point, at this age, how are you making decisions about what you want to do at this point and has that changed? >> i'm freer to make those kinds of decisions, i've been making them a long time. i tell young actors, it's not what you choose to do, it's what you choose not to do. especially early on in your career. so i've been making those decisions of what not to do. at a point where i did last, you know. i wasn't looking to get on a horse. that's magnificent seven. you know.

>> did you love that by the way? >> i did. but it was 105 degrees. black man, black hat, black shirt, blackws9álf)[zgv+tcw black boot oons black saddle on a black horse. 105 degrees. >> a lot of black. ffw8v cool. we had to sit there, it was too hot. >> your son. >> reporter: which one? >> john david. >> is good in that. >> takes after his mother. he's really good. and what's funny is i was talking to him the other day, if you listen to him enough, he is your son. >> that's what people said. >> i can'ter that. i guess you can't tell. >> i said son, he always wanted to be an actor, so he thought there was too much with who his father was. so he decided to play football. i said, be u you made it -- he

played for the st. louis rams. you had two dreams and accomplished both of them. you know, i wanted to play in the nfl and didn't quite work out that way. >> yeah. >> i should be glad this worked out. >> for me? >> more importantly i'm glad it worked out for him. >> yeah. >> what is that you -- that you hope to get across through your acting? you don't act just for that's the only reason. what do you hope to do? >> well, i'm not that specific, but i pray a lot. and like i said, i don't try to decide what the message should be. just try to be a good messenger. you know, and i owe it to the people to do my best. you know what they should get from it, i don't try to decide for them. >> yeah. >> have you ever done something, looked backen to to your point

now, and say to yourself that really wasn't my best? >> i've been on -- yes, second day of shooting come to think about it. oh, i'm in trouble how are we going to fix this? i'm good, but i ain't that good. >> in those moments when denzel even doubt himself, what do you you do? >> well doubting yourself is okay. you know, and that's a part of life. i mean, in the last whatever ten years i've been going back to broadway three times i think. that first night, first performance, whatever. what? are you crazy? all you're going to remember. so you still have that fear, but i think it's good. it's healthy. >> yeah. >> is there a point at which you already know -- the rest of us don't, that you will stop doing broadway because there's so much material to try to remember? >> hasn't happened yet. >> not yet? >> and now they have ear things -- >> yeah. >> so do you feel that call

again? you think in the next few years. >> oh no question. no question, yeah. i haven't figured out what yet, but yeah, i'm already planning on it. >> yeah. >> 18 or 2019. >> yeah. when you said a moment ago as we've been talking, i've been thinking this any head. i've heard you say it so many times, it is about the stuff you turn down not the stuff you take. where'd you get that? >> he said to me, the first four or five films you may determine how you're perceived in this business. i'm not going to tell you what to do, but what not to do. keep that in mind. i passed that on to young folks if they ask me. >> the end verse of that statement is whether or not you ever turned anything down and then saw it on film and said man, i should -- >> i turned down seven. >> yeah. i turned down michael clayton.

it happens. >> yeah. >> it happens. >> yeah. all right. so after you finish all of this award season for "fences," what's next? >> um, i have a script called "inner city," and i play this lawyer who's very, very bright, but has social issues. >> yeah. >> so i'm really excited about that. it's sort of like asberger's or in that world, i'm just starting to get into that role. >> if my memory is correct, the last time you played a lawyer and you were pretty brilliant at it -- >> which one? >> philadelphia. >> was that the last time. >> you played a lawyer since then? >> i don't remember. i spent that money. i don't know. i don't know. that was -- that was 22 years ago. i may have played a lawyer

since. have i? >> i'm trying to think. has he played a lawyer since then? anyone, bueller, bueller? i think i'm right about this. >> good news is i didn't need a couple of lawyers either. >> the film is "fences," starring, directed by one denzel washington, powerful, powerful piece of work. i'm just thankful that he saw to do this. do appreciate you man. >> my pleasure. >> that's our show for tonight, thanks for watching and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> hi i'm tavis smiley, join me for conversations with ruth and steve jones. that's next time. we'll see you then.

>> on by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

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