good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with michael t. willimykelti william. he stars in "fences" and joins us to talk about his brilliant performance. we're glad you've joined us, mykelti williamson, coming up right now. ♪

and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ so pleased to welcome mykelti williamson to this program. the talented actor has played many characters in tv and film, but he is most likely for the role of forrest gump's shrimp-loving friend, bubba blue. but i guarantee you this will change with this role of gabriel in "fences" opposite denzel washington and viola davis. before we begin our conversation, first here he is, mykelti in "fences." >> hey, this is troy's boy! >> how are you doing, uncle dave? >> lions! >> ah!

>> the king of the jungle! rose, hey, rose, i got a flower for you. i picked it myself. that's the same rose like you is. >> that's nice of you, gabe! >> what you been doing, uncle gabe? >> oh, i've been chasing hell hounds and waiting for the time to tell st. peter to open the gates. >> chasing hell hounds, huh? well, somebody's got to chase them. >> i know it. the devil's strong. the devil ain't no push-over. >> amen! >> amen. >> the devil ain't no pushover. can i just -- this is just -- i'm just me, and i don't have an academy vocal, but if i had one, as i've said to every friend i know, you'd get mine. it's over with. i say just give it to mykelti -- >> wow. >> end the show and go home. >> that's beautiful. thank you. >> and i tweeted that. >> yes, i did. >> the minute i came out of the theater. man, you killed this role. >> thank you so much. >> and i know you played it on

broadway, but what you brought to this role in film was just amazing to me. denzel was here last week on the show. and i said the same thing to him about how amazing you were in this film. and i was teasing him about that last scene. >> right. >> you know what i'm talking about? >> that's the way that go? >> boom. that's the way that go. >> right. >> that's the way that go. and he told me that he didn't know how you were going to really approach that. >> right. >> can you tell me about the conversation you had about that? >> sure. i did the line, we shot it, and then i said "that's the way that go," and took off. and denzel said, that's what you're going to do, that's it? i was like, yeah, that's it. there's nothing to it. nothing else, nothing left. you know, mission is accomplished. >> that line, though, that -- we can't really get people to understand what that line means without seeing the whole build-up of the film. >> right. >> but when you hit that line at the end, it just -- tears just -- >> wow. >> i mean, i have not -- i said to you before you came on the air here, i have not talked to a single person who's seen "fences" who could just get up and walk out of the theater the

minute it's over. >> right. >> you can't. you have to, like, sit there and get your mind right. >> absolutely. >> get yourself together. >> absolutely. >> before -- you intended to do that to us, huh? >> well, you know, you never know how it's going to turn out. you just shoot from the heart. that's all you can do, shoot, just tell the truth. >> i asked him a question when he was here and i'm going to ask you the same question, which is how do you know -- i asked him this question as the filmmaker, as the director. i'm asking you as the actor playing this character, gabriel. how did you know or what made you believe you could take this character from the stage and make it work on film? >> confidence in august wilson. >> yeah. >> august wilson is in my opinion the most prolific american playright, not to take anything away from tennessee williams or any of the others or shakespeare even on a global front. but to mention august wilson's

name in concert with shakespeare or tennessee williams and on and on, it's a compliment to all those men. it's, you know, to take nothing aw away, but the confidence in that material, that it would translate. if you tell the truth with it, it worked on broadway when we did it on broadway, and it worked in cinema when we used the cinematic application of it. but the truth is the truth. >> what did you learn -- i'm making the assumption here that you did -- you could be wrong. if i am, i'll back up. what did you learn about august wilson, about his writing, about his work? what did you learn about august wilson that with all the performances you've done of this on stage, it took you doing it on film to see, to feel, to realize? was there something? >> absolutely. >> okay. >> in cinema, i thought i understood -- on stage, i thought i understood the material completely, but in cinema, i realized i didn't. i did not understand how much those words meant, that journey

of the two brothers. and on stage, i didn't realize that gabriel was also troy's caretaker. >> mm-hmm. >> i mean, troy wondz uldn't be he is or have what he has without gabriel's contribution. and that didn't land on me as profoundly on stage as it did when we shot the film. it's important. intimacy gives you -- it elevates creativity, because you don't have to yell, scream, use technique. i just whispered to you what you feel and you feel it, because it's intimate. and so, that's what we learned, is that there's a much more powerful example of these words in cinema than on the boards or in theater. >> yeah. i wished watching this film -- i've been fortunate given what i do to have been invite eeferd t over the years by a lot of friends, you and other, to visit the set when something is being shot. i wish that i had been there a

couple days when y'all were filming this thing. but for those of us who just get completely wrecked in the theater watching this emotionally, were there ever those kind of emotional outbursts or emotional moments in the filming of this? >> oh, absolutely. >> can you tell me something? >> sure. i've been a fan of denzel's for a very long time. >> right. >> i've been a fan of viola's for a very long time. viola and i have worked together before. denzel and i have not. but one of the things that i learned about denzel is that the more you trust, the more that gives another person freedom. i didn't realize that until people asked denzel, what did you do to direct and get these performances. he trusted us, completely trusted us. and i was embarrassed or ashamed not to bring my best work because denzel completely trusted us.

and that's one of the methods to his madness to his magic, is to completely trust us. so, i learned to trust on a much higher, open level. >> i've talked to a lot of actors over the years who have talked about their own process, their own methodology for how they inhabit a particular character. >> right. >> i've talked to actors who when they take on a character, take on the persona, they will stay in that character all day long, even when they're not on set filming, they are gabriel. don't -- they don't come out. tell me about your process, how you inhabit a character like that. you go in, you go out, you stay there? you stay there every day? you stay there for the entire film? what's mykelti's process? >> well, my process is, all my characters are born from prayer. they're all the result from prayer, every single. >> is it true y'all started every day praying? >> with prayer, absolutely. denzel has a prayer circle every day, so that is part of his process. but for me, shame.

people say, how do you go into character and stay in there? because i can be cordial on the set and talk and laugh. but when it's time to go to work when i go into character, i completely escape and forget where i am. i'm in that character's world. and a lot of that comes from shame, because of my own childhood, being molested as a kid, being ashamed of who i was, being abandoned by my father. other kids had fathers. so i wanted to be anybody but who i was. and that has actually fed my gift as an actor, because i can disappear into a character completely, and i'm gone. and my wife will go, "honey, honey," and i'm gone. i am all the way there. and my kids, they get it, but if their friends are over, i won't rehearse. i won't practice or anything if other people are in the house because i go, i'm gone. >> what do you make of the fact -- i hear you. i hear you. this intimacy's working, because i hear you and i feel you. and the moment you said that

about the shame -- >> yes, sir. >> -- i thought of richard pryor, who may very well be the freest black man that ever lived. pryor was just that free. but if you know his backstory, the prostitution and the way he grew up in the house in joliet, illinois, joliet, if you prefer. but you know pryor's backstory, you understand a bit more how he came to be the artistic, the comedic genius that he was. so, here you come now with this confession. >> yeah. >> that it is the shame that allows you to so brilliantly inhabit these particular characters. what do you make of that linkage, that it was that giftedness, the brilliance that we see come out of you artistically is born of a place of hurt and pain and shame? how do you link those things? >> well, i don't make a good victim, so i'm no longer ashamed of my past. but i realize how god used that.

they said your test will become your testimony, and that's essentially what happened, is that the tests, the things i've been through in my life i'm no longer ashamed of because i don't make a good victim. i don't have a good victim mind-set. i realize what happened happened, and i'm okay, and i'm cool. i celebrate what i've been through, because it has made me very wealthy, conscious, kind, considerate human being. >> you're such an honest and frank person. you've made some mistakes in your life. >> absolutely. >> god knows i've made a bunch more, likely. >> yes, sir. >> and because of who you are as an actor in this town, your mistakes have been in newspapers. >> yes. >> and online, and we know the challenges that you faced. >> right. >> what did you take away from those mistakes, and particularly those mistakes being so public? how did those mistakes, those crises that you go through, went through, not take you out? >> prayer and people like you

and my other friends, denzel and so forth, all you guys praying for me, because i know i put my pain on the table in front of all you guys, and i know you know what i went through on a personal level. the most interesting thing is -- and i have -- my eldest daughter went through something similar to what i went through as a child, and my case was a self-defense case, but i couldn't speak about it because of all the legal aspects of it. i couldn't speak about it. and so, that made it even more painful because i could not explain to people what i thought was my innocence. i could not speak it. and it later came out that it was a self-defense matter and i was completely, completely exonerated. but by that time, your reputation has been injured and harmed, so you have to just keep going, man. you can't go back and clean it up. you know, jesus had dirt on him,

you know what i mean? so i had a little dirt thrown on me, but it's all good, brother. like i said, i don't make a good victim, so i just keep going and use that to teach others so that they can avoid those same pitfalls. >> i don't know what -- thank you for being so honest about that. i appreciate it. >> absolutely. >> i don't know how you process this, so let me just ask you -- i don't know how you process, so i don't know whether or not you have expectations of this industry or of this business. but when you are in a film that is as big as "forrest gump" -- >> yes, sir. >> -- and you're playing such a major character -- everybody loves that character, bubba blue. >> right. >> then they spin off restaurants -- >> right. >> bubba gump shrimp house, and you know, it's a huge film. they had a lot of legs. and clearly, you've been a working actor for a long time. >> right. >> but there are people who would expect that when you have that kind of vehicle, that it's going to transport you to the next level. >> right, right, as did i. >> okay. >> but that is a great

deception. >> that's what i want to get at. tell me more about that. >> well, it's a great deception. the bubba gump shrimp company, that whole thing -- i've actually never eaten at one of those restaurants. to me, it's a very deep area of pain in my life because i thought that i would be taken care of for working so hard and elevating this material to such a place. i was the lowest paid. and all the money i made on that movie i had to actually reinvest in a publicist so that people would know what i really look like, because it actually injured my career, "forrest gump." i couldn't work for a long time after that movie because people thought that was just a guy with that lip, and all my character work went by the wayside and i had to pay a publicist to put me in magazines so kpeem see what i really looked like. and -- >> such a handsome fella. >> well, thank you. i appreciate that. i appreciate that.

but you know, it's a great deception. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> i feel the pain and i hear it. what was the -- other than the fact that you had to hire a publicist -- that was the way you dealt with it -- what was the takeaway? >> well, the takeaway is, no matter what happens, you still do your very best work. >> right. >> i mean, i just coined that. that's from dr. martin luther king. you do the absolute work that you possibly can and represent yourself at the highest level. you know, i kept trying to figure out a way to make that work for me, but that chapter never really worked for me. so this is my -- actually, i've been an actor, professional actor since i was 9 years old. i'm 59 this year. this is my 50th year in the game, and i love it. i love what i do, but i also realize that there's more, because i want to take my platform and help people with it. and i know what this business

is, you know what i mean? it's a grinder, it's a meat grinder, you know. and it will chew on you a little bit. but there's greater works that i want to do. there was a gentleman who was considering jumping off a freeway not long ago and the "l.a. times" wrote about it. i was actually running late to an appointment because i wanted to help him. and i just want to do good work, man. i want to help people. that's all. i just want to help somebody. >> you referenced that king quote. i love how king, when he went in on that, he went in. >> yes, he did. >> and i love the way he framed that. and he said, as you know, very simply but pointedly, and i think powerfully, that each of us should do our work so well "that the dead, the living, or the unborn couldn't do it any better." that's a tall order, ain't it? >> that's a tall order. >> let me talk to somebody right quick here, beginning of 2017. if you wake up every day and you take on that kingian challenge, whatever your calling, whatever your purpose, whatever your vocation is in the world, if you

take on that kingian challenge every day, to do your work so well that the dead, the living or the unborn couldn't do it any better -- >> wow. >> -- you're destined to be successful. >> wow, absolutely. >> it's just -- i mean, that's my approach. >> right. >> i don't know why i set the mark every day, but that's the goal every day, to do it so well that nobody else could do it better. >> the key, what i found is you always become what you think about. if you see yourself as a loser, if you see yourself as a nonvictor, if you see yourself as not quite good enough, you always get what you think about. when i learned that, when that was taught to me and i learned it, i always get what i think about, because i think i'm the absolute best, one of the finest actors on the planet. and i have to keep saying, yes, you are. yes, you are. because shane tries to turn the corner, but i won't allow it. >> when you've been in this game

since you were 9 and now you're about to be 59, you've been doing this for half a century -- >> yes. >> had to make you feel old. you've been doing this for 50 years. what is it that has kept you in the game, even when you felt at times like the game betrayed you? because you could have detoured. >> absolutely. >> you could have gotten off the off-ramp. >> right. >> ain't no gun to your head to keep doing this every day. >> that's right. >> it's a choice. >> it's a choice. >> why choose to stick with it 50 years? >> because i love it. >> yeah. >> it's my greatest love. i've been a director for 30 years, a member of the dga for close to 30 years. and that's a great love, but acting is my first love. >> yeah. >> it really is, because you get to play, get to be a child, get to escape. and for me, that's something that i just can't ever be thankful enough that i had an opportunity to make the kind of money that i've made in this industry doing something that i've wanted to do as a child. being a member of the screen

actors guild for me is a badge of honor that i will always be proud of, because i stand on the shoulders of all those professional actors who have come before me, all of whom i've learned from. you know, if you look around the room, like the golden globes, the s.a.g. awards, the oscars, everybody in that room has taught me what i know. and so, that badge of honor, that screen actors guild badge i wear as big as i wear my heart. >> let's talk about "fences." >> absolutely. >> what is it about gabriel on stage, on film -- matters not -- what is it about this character, gabriel, written so brilliantly by august wilson, that mykelti has connected to? >> well, first of all, the gabriel position in the family, it's not a symbiotic position. gabriel happens to be the most -- and i've said this a couple times -- the most perspicasious character of them all. so, for me, being able to tap

something spiritually and glean from an insight no one else has to me is amazing. i consider that a great privilege. the fact that it's a military person, because i have a heart strong after our military -- the fact that he's a military person who sacrificed his life for his nation, that's one of the greatest loves that a person can exhibit, is to stand up and fight and risk giving your life away for people who may even bash you while they're drinking $6 or $7 coffees, may think you're an idiot. but they get to drink a $6 or $7 coffee, but this man or girl is in a fox hole somewhere in another land to protect the folks that bash them with their mouth. so to me, that makes me so proud that i had the privilege to do that, and august wilson wrote that. >> yeah, absolutely. where does -- because i believe it exists because i felt it -- where does the strength that gabriel possesses, where does

that strength come from? >> within me? >> in character. >> oh, in character. it comes in -- it's faith. >> yeah. >> faith is believing in something that you actually don't see. >> yeah. >> visually, physically, but you see it in your heart and in your mind. he saw the absolute best for troy. gabriel loves his brother, troy, more than he loves life itself. and that kind of love is the true line that denzel gave us, because for me, i need a through line, i need a theme. i asked him, what's the theme? i said, oh, do you have one? he said, yeah, i have one. i said, what is it? he said, love, whatever that means to you. that's all i needed. because everything comes back to love anyway, you know. if a parent yells and screams at a kid, "get out of the street before you get hit!" it's fear. it's anger, which is fear, but the fear lives because there's so much love, and there's a fear of loss. >> yeah. >> so, it all goes back to love

anyway. but you know, that's just the brilliance of a denzel washington and a viola davis, you know. she's amazing, brother. >> that she is. she's amazing is the right word. >> yes, she is. >> speaking of viola and d., what we see on film, of course, is a family. >> yes. >> dysfunctional, like all the rest of our families, but a family nonetheless. i suspect when you spend that much time with these people in real life, on stage and filming this, i guess, does it ever start to feel like a family? >> physiciit is a family. >> yeah, yeah. >> it absolutely is a family. listen, if you want trouble with t., you mess with d. or v. that's just the way it goes. >> yeah. >> and that's real. and it goes the same way for them. a very close friend of mine had the nerve to open his mouth and judge viola's work. and i've known this guy since i was a child, and i let him have it. i served him a big spoon. >> yeah. >> yeah, because he needed it, you know.

i mean, how dare you? do you understand the level that this woman walks the earth at? i mean, come on, you know. just to be in the same room with her, you would be privileged, i told him. i just had to break the brother off, man. but i'm very protective of russell hornsby, steven mckinley henderson. russell's -- that's my dude. >> i love him. >> nobody's got a swag like russell hornsby. >> i agree with that. >> yeah, yeah. and young gun, jovan adepo, he came in -- now, we went to august wilson's grave site when we first got to pittsburgh. we decided we were going to go to august's grave site and pay our respects because -- >> the whole cast. >> no, no, no, just steven, russell and myself. i said, let's take jovan. >> okay. >> because v. was finishing up something. she was coming to join us. >> right. >> and d. was doing his thing. >> sure, sure. >> so we went to go cover the rest of the cast and just pay our respects. so, we tested jovan. i said, hey, man, are you going to go with us in the morning? where are we going?

i said, you're going with us. okay, where are you going? with us. period. >> that's all you need to know. are you going or are you not going? yeah, yeah. >> so, i tested him, and i gave him a very early call time to meet us downstairs. so i go downstairs, and dang, i'm the first one down early. and i want to see if he comes off sleepy, if he comes off dressed like he doesn't care. and he was dressed nice, and he comes off the elevator right after me, ding! grinning, like. i said, okay, he got it. >> you got it then. >> you got it. so, we ushered him in. we put our arms around him and ushered him in and we've been eteaching him and speaking into his life ever since. >> i can't say enough. it's a beautiful piece of work, and that's why it's got all this buzz on it here in this awards season. and i'll close where i began. i actually saw a lot of great performances this year, but i personally have not seen anybody as brilliant as mykelti williamson in gabriel in "fences" alongside denzel washington and golden

globe-winning viola davis. mykelti, you killed it, man, and i'm just honored to be sitting next to you given what you've put for us to see on that screen. so, thank you. >> thank you, tavis. it's a privilege to call you friend. >> i appreciate that. >> it really is. thank you, sir. >> that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching. and as always, keep the faith. >> announcer: for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> hi, i'm tavis smiley. joining me for a conversation with john heilemann, co-managing editor of bloomberg politics and star of a documentary called "trumped." that's next time. we'll see you then. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

good evening from los angeles. tonight part two of our look at the legacy of dr. king as we go deeper into his powerful often overlooked speech, beyond vietnam. which offers insight into many crises we face even today. we are glad you joined us. night two of the special rebroadcast of mlk, a call to conscience, is coming up right now.