good evening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley. it's been one month since donald trump became president, and tomorrow night he'll address a joint session of congress for the first time since taking office. so tonight a conversation with conservative writer david frum about that address and more. then writer/director jordan peele one half of the sketch comedy duo key and peele discusses his horror film "get out" that topped the box office with more than $30 million in ticket sales. glad you've joined us. conversations with david frum and jordan peele coming up right now. ♪

♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. david frum is a former speechwriter for george w. bush and senior editor at "the atlantic" magazine. he penned the cover story in the march issue called "how to build an autocracy which builds a dystopian future under donald trump." he joins us from washington.

glad to have you back on the program. >> thank you very much for your hospitality. >> tomorrow donald trump will give his first -- we're not calling it a state of the union address, of the white house isn't calling it that. it is his first address to a joint session of congress. number one, why make that distinction? and what do you expect? >> it's very traditional in the first year of presidency not to call the first speech a state of the union. simply because the new president has been in office such a short time. it's not really a backward look. it's a forward look. that's the way it was under president obama. that's the way it was under president george w. bush. >> what do you expect tomorrow night? >> i expect a lot of dystopian, to use the word you used, description -- president trump trying to present an image of a country in disarray, the scene of carnage. that's been his theme because he wants to lower the baseline. if americans think too hard about the prosperity and success of the country right now, it

makes it hard for him to take credit later for everything. you saw just this past weekend that president trump tweeted out the national debt had gone down $12 billion in his first month in office. that's actually kind of fake math, and it refers to just normal fluctuations within governmental accounts. if it were true, which it wasn't, but if it were true, it would reflect not his policies, none of which are in effect. he's going to want to take credit looking backwards as well as for any good news going forward. >> when do you think he starts to make the shift? i think it's fair to say that this kind of negativity and, for lack of a better word, can only go on so long. people don't want to keep waking up and being scared to death by another cnn alert. even if that is his strategy, how long can he run that play? >> he -- the time, as you say, for that play is out. but people need to keep in mind -- this is the theme i've been stressing pretty hard. ads you said -- i worked for jordan w. bush. i'm proud of that service.

i voted for in 2012. i am a pretty conservative republican. what the issue ahead of the country is not about those kinds of politics anymore. donald trump's goal -- he may end up doing some kind of republican things, but that's not what he's in office for. he's in office to make himself the richest man on the planet. and he's in office to break whatever restraints there are on the office of the presidency on his way to getting to be the richest man on the planet. >> you think it's that simple? that straightforward? >> i think it's -- it's not that simple, but that is straig straightforwa straightforward. donald trump has turned off -- there a series of mechanisms to keep an eye on what the president is up to. one of the most important is the release of tax returns. every president has continues it since gerald ford. gerald ford didn't release all of them but a lot of them. jimmy carter has done it, and every president since. even mitt romney who didn't want to eventually did do it. there's a standard disclosure form that everybody who works in the executive branch has to fill

out. i filled it out. it's not very informative about the kinds of finances that a man like donald trump would have. if donald trump is richer today than he was the day before the election, there is no way to know. if he is a year from now, if he's richer again, there's no way to know. there's certainly no way to know if his children and his son-in-law are dramatically richer today than they were a month ago. we know all of them, however, do a lot of business outside the country. and we know from periodic glimpses -- we get little visions of what's going on. in uruguay, in india, in argentina, and meanwhile we see a lot of the norms and had bebi that our federal government has had since the carter era are being turned off. >> there is no president at least in my lifetime, david, who did not get richer as a result of his having been the president. that's in part what got hillary and bill clinton into trouble this time around when she ran. god knows how much money barack obama and michelle are going to make from their books, not to

mention speeches, et cetera. we've become -- we've come to accept the fact that presidents are going to enrich themselves when they're out of office. i don't begrudge mr. trump being richer -- than he is now. the question is whether or not those checks and balances that are in place to stop him from doing that on our backs are going to work. are they going work? >> wait a minute. let's distinguish between two things. yeah, presidents make money after they leave office. why not? i mean, it's america. americans like to make money. if they make money in honest ways, whether by the books they write or businesses they join -- >> or the speeches they give to gas t goldman sachs and other places -- >> yeah, i love that a little bit less because that looks like the sale of ñit

was on the day he entered office. bill and hillary clinton were certainly poorer on the day they left office than the day they entered. you live on your salary, presidents -- they're living in a -- they have a lot of demands on them. they spend down their assets knowing they can recoup later. to get rich in office and while you're running a business and not because, hey, ronald reagan got richer when he was in office, he put his money in stocks at the beginning of his presidency. looked the other way. the broker made his portfolio better by the end. reagan had nothing to do with it. everyone in the stock market had more money at the end of the reagan presidency than at the beginning. donald trump is running a business. his family is running a business, and they are selling access as we speak. that is unheard of. i talk -- i want to say one more thing. know -- you have younger viewers in your audience.

there's a kind of easy cynicism that a lot of younger people have that they all lie, they're all crooked, they're all the same. i spent my life around politicians. cynicism is wrong. you realize why in a donald trump time why it's dangerous. when you meet somebody who does those things, you aren't shocked. one of the things that will be a struggle for everybody during the trump presidency is to stay shocked every day because what's happening is really shocking. >> i take your point, and i'm glad you said that. there's a distinct difference between cynicism and skepticism. frankly, he's pushing the envelope on both. i hear you loud and clear about cynicism. he's giving good reason, reasons, plural, every day for people to engage in skepticism. i think we're getting more of that, frankly, than we're getting from the cynicism crowd. >> yeah. people have to step up and be engaged. you have to demand more and demand better. that's one of the themes of the article i wrote. what i try to do in this

articarticle -- a lot of people have vivid, lurid ideas of what it means to lose your freedom. they think there will be federal jack-boot eed storm troopers. that's not how it works in the modern state. we live ina an age of democratic decline. there are fewer democracies now than there were in 2005. many of the countries that remain democracies are losing their democratic character. think of hungary, poland, the philippines, post-mandela south africa. you see there's less freedom of the press. the judiciary is more corrupt. elections don't stop -- it's not like putin's russia. they don't murder people. they don't even usually wrongfully arrest people. they use a lot of deceit and corruption and make political checks and balances less meaningful. that's the future i fear for the united states under donald trump. >> i guess the question tonight is whether or not in the era of trump we are going to become -- he will force us to become, coerce us to become better citizens. yes, no? >> that's such an important

question. i'm not going to make a prediction. i'm going to offer encouragement. one of the things that -- i keep saying in the article, people may remember the story of ebenezer scrooge, "the christmas carol." when he sees the ghost of christmas future, he asks, are you the vision of things that will be or of things that could be? the ghost never answers. this is just a future. you can choose your own. you look at a lot of the groups that on the raw data you would think would be vulnerable to donald trump. groups like mormons, white, black tend to have less education and lower think in than other groups. you would think mormons would be vulnerable. they're one of the most resistant groups to donald trump. why? they're connected. they have -- they're joiners. they belong to things. same way with some of the protestant churches in areas like central wisconsin. where people belong, they are less vulnerable to donald trump. be a belonger. join the choir. it will make you -- it will trump-proof you and your neighbors if you are involved in

some civic activity. >> whatever is to come, david, how complicit will republicans be when the historians look like on this trump era? >> that's a heavy question and a painful question. the place where we check and balance the president is in congress. i have total confidence in the courts. but the federal courts, there are aren't that many. they're very slow. they only hear certain kinds of questions. they can never initiate anything. they want for people to bring problems to them. they'll do justice, i'm sure, same as they always do. but congress is the place it happens, and congress has been lying down for this president on everything from conflict of interest to the tax returns. and now to the most -- what is to my mind, different people have different views, most horrible thing which is this president and his people look, we don't know this, but it looks like they were concluding with a hostile foreign power to influence an american election. if that is the way some suggest, and we don't know that, i want to emphasize, don't let -- we

have to be careful not to get ahead of the story. but it would be one of the worst scandals in american history. >> do democrats, quickly, have any other option other than obstructionism which they accused the republicans of doing during the obama era? >> i'm not a democrat, but i would advise them to pick their fights. don't fight everything. if you see this guy acting like a normal republican, i mean, you've got your views, of course. the place is to be the most careful about are the things that no another -- no other person would do. the russia stuff, the corruption stuff, the abuse of office,oninoffice, things that if mitt romney were president would not be happening. the things this mitt romney were to be president, that's normal politics. let's clean up the government and then deal with normal politics. >> i will spend the rest of my evening marinating on what a normal republican is to me. i digress on that point. david frum, good to have you back on, my friend. >> thank you very much. >> up next, writer/director jordan peele, who has the number-one movie in america off of the weekend. stay with us.

actor/comedian david frum, known for his work behind the sketch duo kbhey and peele, behd the movie "get out." it's funny but has been called brilliantly subomersive, and it is. the public was unanimous in making it number one -- you bad boy -- number one at the box office this past weekend. before our conversation with mr. peele, first a look at "get out." >> good to see another brother around here. >> yes. of course it is. >> something wrong? >> there you are. >> yes --

>> hello. i'm fiphilemina. and you are? >> chris. >> chris was telling me how he felt more comfortable with me being there. >> that's nice. logan, i hate to tear you away, dear. the wincots were asking about you. >> well, it was nice to meet you, chris. >> i fell out when i saw that -- that was a fun scene. first of all, i'm honored to have you on the program, sir. >> glad we didn't do that one -- >> do it again. >> glad we didn't do that one. that's next. >> i'm honored to have you on the program. congrats on being number one. >> thank you. >> i brought my thing to get you to sign. any movie ticket. the movies are nice and usually send me a private screener so i can watch the movie before the guest comes on the show. horror films are things you must

see with crowds. >> that's right. >> i went to carver city to see this. >> i love it. >> i loved it. >> you know, it's like -- it's one of the ways -- it's related to comedy as an art form. it's collaborative. as an audience, it's exponentially improved by getting to have a communal experience. one of the things that i love that i keep hearing from people is after the film, the whole audience felt closer or familial. whether it's mixed or predominantly one group or the other. there's something communal about the experience of this movie which is -- so -- >> the crowd that i saw that was mixed and was fascinating for me as if you would hear this, they break out into applause. the film ends, the credits start, they start applauding. i'll tell jordan that when i see him. >> it's great. and you know, the premise is -- on paper it's a divisive idea,

right. the white people in this movie are the villains. and so i think greatest feat that we pulled off with this is creating something that doesn't talk down to the audience, that -- honors the audience and says, look, i get -- i'm giving you credit that you are intelligent. you are an empathetic person. you are human. at a certain point, that's the power of story. we can show the perspective of different human beings. >> it is the power of story, but there's a risk, i think, whenever you do a film that you make the white people the villains. yet white people spend their money to see the movie. how did you pull that trick off? >> you know, it really was just taking care of the reality of it. the -- you know, the scene that this -- this follows is, this

party sequence that seems to resonate with a lot of people and put everybody on a similar page where we see the connections that, you know, chris is the only black guy at the party until he runs into logan. he's approached by white people trying to make their -- their connection with him. their black connection with him. the dynamic we -- every black person knows. every other minority group, someone who's been in the "other" category knows. a lot of white people are, too, but they're coming like, oh, my god, is there a thing? oh, my god, have i done this? getting everybody on the same page as to a grounded part of the african-american experience is -- does just that. it gets us all on the same page. >> there were so many moments in this film where if you were

bra black, you relate to those experiences. you get this. particularly his boy telling him, do not go to your white girlfriend's house. i would not do that. you will go to meet her parents -- you sit there and laugh because it's funny, but it's rooted -- my friend maya angelou would say, it's as real as rain. and you relate to it. >> you know, things -- if something rings true, it just does. >> yeah. >> and yeah, did's -- it's really -- it's really worked. i think part of the reason "guess who's coming to dinner" was some of the jumping off point to this movie, about the premise, down to the -- sid no poitier asks his girlfriend, do they know, the first thing in the movie? she says, no, why. i took that. and part of the reason is because there's something universal about the -- everybody can relate to the fear of going to meet your potential in-laws

for the first time. there's an extra added dynamic to that when you have the interracial couple or someone of different faiths. the reason that "guess who's coming to dinner" worked was we were all on the same page instantly. we all relate to that fear. >> this could have been a comedy straight out. it could have been a horror straight out. you combined the two. why the nexus? >> you know, really i felt like tone was the most percent thing in getting this right. and i knew that if -- if it's too funny, it -- it doesn't really do -- it risks not doing justice to the serious of the subject matter. if it's too serious, it risks not being a pleasant viewing experience. really the comedic relief is not meant to come in and tell a bunch of jokes. it's meant to give moments where

the audience can feel safe, where they can feel taken care of, and they can feel the lease because so much of this movie is just -- building the tension. building the tension. i springfield like if you're going -- i feel like if you're going to put an audience through that, you have to reward them with safe zones. >> i'm glad you said that. the comedy wasn't gratuities. it was funny -- it's only funny because we can see ourselves in those situations. we can situate ourselves in those moments. that's exactly what we would have said, what we would have done. it's not like did you hear the one about, yadda, yadda. and to your point that it blgds a -- it builds and builds, i'm with you, but it is building and building. you have to as a director and writer trustñi that the audienc will stay with you and have the patience while you build this thing, why did you think that would work because, face it, most of our attention spans are like that. you forced us to be patient with

you. it was risky. >> it is risky. some of my biggest insecurities about the film were along the lines of, yeah, the first half of this movie, is it too much of an ask? it is -- it's playing off of tension and suspense more than it's giving us answers or reveals. and there's a thing where people like to know what they're getting into in general. even if they think they don't, they like to know. i looked at some of my favorite movies, "the stepford wives," "rosemary's baby," certainly when you look at other huge films like "blair witch project" and "paranormal activity," these films utilized terror. the moments before the horror takes place. and it proves that you can enrapture an audience with terror. if they know something's coming and they don't know what it is -- >> i love that phrase.

you can enrapture them with terror.sounded like donald trum. i'm going to enrapture them with terror. >> i was going to say it if you didn't. it's true. you make a good point. and this -- you know, there's a reason that right now in this country we are enraptured with terror. we are afraid. many of us are very afraid. at the same time, it's fascinating to watch this car crash unfold. this is part of the issue of how we got here, as well, is that the sensationalism and the fascination with this over-the-top personality, administration, and movement is -- it's partially what perpetuated his ability to sell his brand. >> before you go. speaking of enrapturing with

terror, that closing last night -- at the academy awards. talk about being enraptured for 3.5 hours with terror. at the end, you get the bill reveal. what did you -- you're in the business. you may one day be on that stage. >> hey -- >> what did you make of that thing last night? >> i mean, that was something. talk about the underdog comes back in the end to win. that is the true hollywood ending. i loved that. i thought "la la land" is good. and damian is a talent. i met him, and i think the film deserved the achievements it got, as well. i cannot tell you how happy i was for "moonlight," specifically being about a black man who's gay or -- yeah. the idea that that movie has now

been exposed to the mainstream through this is off is nsuch an important achievement. i'm so happy for everybody involved. >> yeah. i'll close on this. you've done this directing thing. obviously you've been writing for a while. you've done the directing thing. you did it -- you did it remarkably well. you're number one. i assume this is the first of many. do you want to do more directing? >> i love it -- >> less acting? >> i love it. i'm -- i'm a bigger fan of my directing than my acting. >> right. >> and acting is -- is -- it'sñ harder. you know, not harder per se because directing is the hardest thing i've ever had to do, but it's harder to enjoy my work as an actor. that's part of why this film was so rewarding. i got to make one of might have favorite movies. >> we'll enjoy the acting for you. >> all right. love it. >>ñz' especially with the key a peele reruns. thank you for all those years.

a whole lot of good stuff. congrats, my friend. great to have you on the program. >> all right. >> "get out" near you right now. the number-one movie in america. check it out. that's our show for tonight. good night from l.a. thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time as we celebrate the 90th birthday of the legendary harry belafonte. that's next time. we'll see you then.

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ >> be more. pbs. >> be more.

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