good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. tonight, matthew mcconaughey, the academy award-winning actor, joins us to discuss his latest film, "gold," inspired by actual events. it's an epic tale of a man's american dream and everything he'll do to keep it from falling apart. we're glad you've joined us. matthew mcconaughey in just a moment. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ please welcome academy award-winning actor matthew mcconaughey to this program. he is, of course, known for outstanding and diverse roles that include films like "a time to kill," "dallas buyers club," and of course, "the wolf of wall street." most recently, though, he voiced characters in two animated films, "sing" and "kubo and the two strings," which was just nominated for an academy award. and the best animated feature film. you can't stop this guy. he is also the star and produces his latest project, "gold," in theaters tomorrow. before our conversation starts with mr. mcconaughey, first a

look at a scene from the film "gold." >> see his hands? these are my father's hands, hands scratched and clawed of the earth, these hands. [ inaudible ] why can't i? my day. my day! >> i've been reading so much about this film in preparation for our conversation, and this film has been, i don't want to say maligned, but it certainly has been framed and talked about and critiqued as a film about greed. we've seen many of those films. and there's some greed in it, to be sure, no doubt about it, but to my mind, it is a film about

outsized ambition and this drive to succeed at whatever cost. how do you see the film? >> well, i would agree with you, i don't see it as much about greed. i mean, the second half, once kenny gets the money -- >> kenny wells. >> kenny wells gets the money or has found the gold, there's a lot of greed. new york comes after him. the big people, the suits come after his money just for the money. but for kenny -- and there's a great scene in here where he says, look, for me, it was about the gold. it was never about the money. gold's different. so, what was the gold for kenny wells, as we see in that scene there? kenny's a guy who inherited his grandfather's company from his father when it was -- and he inherited it in healthy shape and he rode it into the ground, then the economy went down, but he didn't want to break that chain by any means necessary, he was not going to break that chain. he takes a one-way ticket to indonesia to chase down a literal dream he has, knowing where the gold is, on a wing and a prayer, and makes it happen.

he almost wills it to happen. so, the gold for him was the chasing of the dream, the chasing it down, the by any means necessary, whatever it takes, prove them all wrong, i never got a ticket to the american dream, i was never going to get a ticket to the american dream, like millions of people in the world, but i'm going to make it happen by hook or by crook, i'm going outhustle everybody else, i'm going to will this thing to happen. that's the gold, you know. >> i am not an actor, and you should be glad that i'm not. i'm not a this is pan, but i love film. and the films i love the most are the ones that give me a clear route, a clear path into reveling in, celebrating, wrestling with the humanity of the character. when you took this project on, decided to take it on, what route did you take into understanding, appreciating, embracing his humanity? >> yeah. >> does that make sense? >> it absolutely does. and with kenny, you know, his

humanity came a lot -- when i first read it -- it was the second script i ever read where i said, i know this guy from the inside out. it hit me like a lightning bolt. even before i went and did the research on the real kenny wells who was named david walsh -- i had a lot of research and facts to find out about him -- it hit me immediately, oh, i know this, this is part of who my dad was, it's part of who my dad did business with, it's the chicago johns, the guys i saw my dad dealing with, and they were pipe and coupling salesmen. they were not prospectors, but in a way, they were prospectors. they were pedalling every day, waking up in the morning, throwing their legs over the side of the bed going, today's going to be the day. my dad's line was "i'm going to hit a lick," wish me luck, i'm going to hit a lick. and that means i'm going to make a big sale. and he didn't hit that lick. and he got up again the next day, today's going to be the day, i'm going to hit a lick, and he didn't, for days, for weeks, for months, for years,

until he moved on. there's millions of people like that. and this is a story with kenny, he actually did find the gold, he actually did hit that lick. so you know, a lot of it was research i did on the guy, david walsh, whose original name, the true character for kenny wells. and a lot of it instinctually, not intellectually, instinctually took me back to impressions i had of my father and places he took me when i was 12 years old when he took me around the country to go collect from people that owed him money, bringing along a 12-year-old would shame some of them into paying him back. you know, behind the abandoned shopping mall deals to buy hot watches just because it was hot, you know, just because. and him, like, i remember him looking in the sky like there were helicopters following us or something. nobody gave a damn he was buying a hot watch behind the shopping mall, but that's kind of what turned him on. and yet, he was larger than

life. he was a consumer of life, like kenny wells. whether it was the food, the drink, the love, the joy, the smoke, he was larger than life. his spirit and his size. >> how did you process at that age, watching all that your father was doing? how did you process that? >> well, one, i was happy to be along. >> sure, sure. >> to go along. my dad loved to set up the story, you know -- hey, this day in the car, this is chicago john, you know, while he'd leave the car running. you know, he gets out and chicago john's in a white van. >> right. >> 5'4", balding with a red leather jacket on a cold southwest houston day, and he goes to the back of the van and there's hair dryers and washing machines and a glove box,nd i'm just watching. and whatever was in that glove box that my dad paid for made my dad's shoulders go like this, and they walked away without a handshake or anything. it was like just a deal we made. and my dad getting in the car,

handing me this wadded-up roll of paper towels with something in it and saying "put it in the glovebox, buddy, make sure it doesn't get away." and i'm like, what is it? this is great! what is it? then driving down the road for ten minutes and him going, "check the glove box, see if it's still in." i pull it out, and it's a big silver watch. >> right. >> and my dad's like, yeah, buddy, that's a $22,000 rolex, titanium, and i just bought it for $3,000. i was wowed! i was so happy to be along for the ride to hear his stories on the way, driving around the country to go collect from these people. so it was a big rite of passage that he took me along. i had two older brothers that were doing business with him, so they got to be part of these stories. i got to be an observer. and it's very interesting, because a lot of it, like that story i just told, that's how i remember it going down. but that's 16-year-old eyes watching my dad. did it go down exactly like

that? i don't know, but it should have. >> yeah, yeah. what'd you learn -- and i say this -- you'll take my point -- i sea thay this in the affirmat not the negative. what'd you learn about your father about how to get your hustle on? >> how to get the hustle on? >> yeah, because you've clearly done that in your career. >> sure, self-alliance. nobody's going to take care of you but you. get up every day. if you get out of bed -- he loved to say it, how's the day? well, i got out of bed this morning. and i couldn't tell -- we had times in the late '70s where we were high on the hog. the oil boom had hit. we had a matching jet boat with the matching learjet, and that all just crashed, and then we were broke. and he wouldn't go chapter 11 or chapter 13. he had too much pride to go bankrupt. but you couldn't tell in our family any difference from when we were rich or when we were broke, from his attitude. you couldn't tell. he was still the host of the day. he was still extremely positive,

extremely physical, and was going to go make it happen. so we -- i think i learned a lot of resilience from him, because i didn't find that until postmortem, after he had moved on, how hard times were for our family that last five years before he moved on. so resilience. and our family preaches a pretty hard-core positive attitude as a means of survival, not to just be happy of the day, but know you've got to go make it happen and get relative real quick. our family's good at that. you'd better get relative when it gets tough because a whole lot of people have got it tougher. we weren't a family that allowed much drama, and you couldn't get dramatic in our family at all about much because you'd be -- they'd bring you to the ground and humble you real quick. >> let me shift real quick and i promise i'll come back. you and i were chatting before going on the air talking about

the speech i had just given at boise state up in idaho and just seeing the young people who are ready to fight in this present political moment but also a bit fearful about what the future is going to bring. what would your dad be saying to those students right now who in this moment want to fight but don't want to be frozen by the fear of what the future might or might not bring? >> well, here's the way we were raised. i realized this, you know, in the last 15 years -- and my father moved on in '92. we were a very strict family and had rules. you'd better follow the rules, and hey, whoever's in charge, you follow those, and dad's in charge, those were the rules. and your government, what have you. but each -- all three, my two brothers and i all had moments with my father where we busted the rules. we busted them out wide open in front of him, and we thought, oh, man, this is it, and it

wasn't it. it turned out to be, there you go, buddy. and it was a rite of passage. testing you. i'm going to test you. you don't have your rite of passage, son, until you bust through my rules and go your own way. for me, i was going to go to law school. man, it was set i was going to law school. mom and dad were helping me pay my way through it, and i all of a sudden have a change of heart, say i want to go into film making. that phone call was a tough call for me and i remember sweating and thinking my dad's going to be like, you want to do what? and i said, pop, i want to -- i don't want to go to law school anymore. i want to go to film school. and there was a long pause on the phone. and he said "is that what you want to do?" and i went, "yes, sir." long pause again. he goes, "well, don't half-ass it, buddy," then we were off. then he was with it. >> so, what would he say? like i said, our family's pretty self-reliant, and there's a lot

of times that the mcconaughey family, in our family, the rules within our household were above being a texan or above the federal government or anyone. the one you listened to is our rules within our household. and, he would say everyone have a look in the mirror. he wasn't an anarchist, but he was an outlaw. he wasn't into anarchy or by any means necessary go get violent or anything like that but he was man up. >> was an outlaw. >> man up. guess who's going to take care of you? you. that was sort of the self-reliance, i think. that was the underlying ingredient that we were raised with, for sure. >> there's a scene in this film -- i asked you earlier how you found your way into his humanity. so i'm watching this thing and i'm loving every scene of it, but there was a moment where it just grabbed me and pulled me in. and i don't want to give the film away, but it's the scene where he wins the big award. and he's explaining what a prospector really is.

i was like, i got it! >> you know, that's -- >> i got it! >> and if you combine that scene with the scene we saw, that was one of the real windows into it for me. here's a guy who has no trouble turning down $300 million, which is what happened just before the scene we saw. he's offered $300 million, and he came from nothing. he was broke! >> for those who have not heard this answer before, when you were dead set and the family was behind you going to law school and you made this left turn or right turn, whenever way you turned, to go to film school, what brought that on? >> so, i was getting to the end of my sophomore year, which is the year where you can take whatever credits you want, but now we'd better start funneling our credits towards our degree. >> ut austin. >> yes, sir, ut austin. and i wasn't sleeping that well at night with the idea of going to law school. i was sitting there going, well, i graduate, 22 i'm out, go until i'm 24. i'm not really making a mark.

i have a chance to make a mark on society until i'm 30. i said i don't want to spend my 20s just getting educated, and i had been writing a lot. always kept a diary. and i would share my diary with a good friend of mine, rob benler, who was at film school at nyu at the time. and he said to me, he goes, well, what do you -- you know, i've been reading your writings for a long time, man, and you've got a lot of character as a guy, plus you're a good-looking guy, what about acting? i was like, no, no, no, not acting. but the story-telling side, i can get my hand around that a little bit. >> sure. >> that married with the fact that a book found me called "the greatest salesman in the world." you know this book? >> i know the book. >> i've got it back out in front of me here. >> i've got the text here. >> and that book found me at a time, and it gave me the courage to say, hey, no, let's pick a new path here, now's the time. and so, i made that call and i went into the behind the camera,

which, did i want to be behind the camera? yes, i did. did i want to be an actor? probably more -- i know i did more now than i would even admit back then. but i knew i wanted to be in the story-telling business. so, that book and the confidence i got from my friend who was in film school -- was really the only guy i could talk about it, because i was a frat boy at the university of texas. i was the first and only frat boy going to film school, you know. that was for sure. >> especially at ut. >> oh, yeah. >> yeah, yeah. so i don't want to betray in your confidence, but when we sat down before you went on the air, first thing you did was pulled out your phone and read something to me that had been sent to you. and i only raise that because it seems to me that reading isn't just fundamental for you, particularly referencing this book that you read, that reading is paramount. am i overstating that? >> maybe because -- >> like, what do you -- >> because i'm not a big book reader. >> you're not a big book reader. >> no. >> but that book got you, though. >> well, that book got me and it still has me.

look, the word means a lot to me. like, my -- the reason i don't read that much is -- like, i pick up emerson's essays. >> sure. >> i can't get past his poem on self-reliance. >> yeah, yeah. >> i'm like, how can i move on from that? i've got to go back and reread the first paragraph again. and i read one paragraph and i have to set it down and go, whoa, i need to go see if i can go put that into action. so i never get through a book. and this is why i've still got "the greatest salesman" in front of me since 1989, because i'm like, you don't have it down yet. you don't have it down yet. >> yeah. i feel that way about the bible, you know. >> okay. >> that's my story. i'm still working on trying to -- >> all right. i've tried to get into the bible. i've never gotten all the way through it. i get my bible version each day on my phone, and you know, i have a great pastor now, speaking of religion, which is a word i don't think we should be

so afraid to use as so many people are. >> that's exactly right. amen to that, brother. >> yes, sir. and i found a church, family found a church. i got back into the church once we had kids, because we always went to church growing up as kids. then i went off and didn't really go. having kids got me back into it. my buddy's a doctor and a pastor, dave haney. i like to say, you put the blackboard to the bible for me. that's what i needed, the science, the steps, the look, this is what you can take into your week, monday, tuesday, wednesday, thursday, friday, saturday and sunday that are going to give you more satisfaction in your life today and tomorrow. and it's also the first church i went to after the first time i went there, i said you know why i feel so great about being here today? first church i've been in where i didn't walk out feeling guilty. >> yeah. [ laughter ] that's why you liked it. >> oh, yeah. came out with a responsibility now. i still came out with a tow to hoe now. i still had work to do. >> no, i got you. you mentioned those bible verses

that come to your phone. a lot of people get that on their phones. >> yes. >> and maybe this is the answer, but if it is, then tell me that. if there's something else, tell me that. what do you use for motivation? and i ask that because it is impossible to even mention the name matthew mcconaughey without everybody doing their own impersonation. >> okay. >> one way or the other. >> right. >> i'm not going to do it, but we've all got our matthew mcconaughey. >> okay. >> all right, all right. >> first two words ever said, true. >> everyone has their matthew mcconaughey moment. but those moments, whatever they are, they're always rooted -- talking about your personality, not the characters you play -- they're always rooted in a positivity -- >> affirmation. >> -- in an affirmation, in a fight, in a resistance, you know. like, what motivates you? what do you -- how do you sustain your hope? what do you hold on to every day? >> well, the best, as much as i've thought about it over the years, the best i could come up with what gives me happiness or satisfaction is having something

to look forward to, having kids is a daily thing to look forward to, until they're out of the house, you know, i suppose. but i've always needed a certain stake in the sand. i'm not too good with too many saturdays in a row. i like my saturdays, but too many saturdays in a row, i get a little wobbly, so i like something to look forward to and chase down. that's what i meant when i'm asked about the oscar speech, what do you mean? it gives me something to chase, you know, to be the man i'm trying to be. i've got to remind myself often, hey, just sit still, you know? because my favorite thing in life where i find that i'm the most turned on is on the approach, on the approach. moving in's a lot more fun than moving out, you know what i mean? see what i mean? >> yeah, i got you. >> so -- >> after films are done, then you crash and burn? like, what do you -- if the approach is the fun part for you, when you wrap, like, what do you do? >> oh, i take a 19-hour nap, and

i'm like, usually catch a cold. because when the immune system goes down, i kick back and press reset for a couple of weeks, you know. i mean, i grew up, like i said earlier about the family, you know, optimism and resilience, and almost to the too much degree. i tell my mom today, i say mom, you told us to get up and dust ourselves off so quickly, we forgot to take inventory on why we needed to dust ourselves off and we repeated the action. i was like, we never had a wintertime in our household. it was summertime 12 months a year. so, i've learned and i give my mom heck about it. she's 85. i'm like, mom, it's nice to have a little repose during the year, take a little inventory on the year so we can evolve. i need little bit of wintertime. she's 85. i can't argue with her. she's like, oh, well, why would you want to do that? because she's still getting away with it. >> what is the coolest thing about having your mom here at 85 to see all that you have and are doing?

>> well, now -- look, when i first started in this business and became somewhat successful, got my first film, it was hard with my mom because she wanted what i had. she always wanted to be the "golden girls." so, the first thing i did -- >> which one is the question. >> whenever one kicks her leg the highest. >> yeah, okay. >> so, she was always like -- you know, i remember one day, i was just getting my footing under me, figuring out what i was doing, and she would come to me, say i know where you get it, i know that thing you did, straight from me. and i'd be like, come on, mom, let me have a little bit. but then we went through, and as you know, when you grow older with your mother, and all of a sudden you get a little more confident. i was like, you know what, i trying to hold the reins of my mother is senseless. i'm not going to change her. she's already 85, no way, so go for it, mom. and as soon as i left the reins off of her, she actually became more of a buddy with me and we

became more friends and she appreciates what i i do. she's my biggest fan, you know. and i've got her -- richard linkletter has snuck her in a few movies, in two that i've been in snuck her in. she's getting her time -- >> her "golden girl" moment. >> oh, yeah. >> last question -- i know from reading this -- i was fascinated by the moment in the -- the wall street -- you got it. you did it. i heard that was you. you improvised that thing. was there some of that in gold? was there a scene in "gold" that i'm going to learn eventually that you just threw in like that? like -- >> got in and didn't know where. it will be years before i'm reminded what was on the script and what was improvised. i was quite loose. i was more verbose than i will usually be. "wolf of wall street" will be

something i do before a scene. i'm stepping in working with leonardo dicaprio, martin scorsese, they've been working for months. i have a two-day part. want to get the voice down, find a rhythm. i was doing that before the scene, and then we yell action, i'd stop and go into the scene. we did five takes, and i was happy. director was happy. mariner sco martin scorsese and leo was happy, and it was his idea -- he said, what's that thing you're doing before the take? it's if my voice is low, do it to get my head in the scene. he said, roll it. i did it, can't find a way, went into my spiel teaching him what wall street's about. and then we got to the end, and as soon as i was like, do you understand what i'm talking about? went back into the rhythm to see if he was on my frequency. he does his, we bookended the scene. that was the one take we used.

>> wow. these stories are amazing. >> they are fun. >> matthew mcconaughey is the man, and i have so enjoyed this conversation with you. i'm sure you enjoyed it, as well. would have loved to have been here -- i was here, sorry. the film is called "gold." it is a powerful, powerful film. and i think you'll enjoy it. thank you for coming by to say us it, my friend. >> my pleasure, tavis. >> the pleasure is mine. that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. ♪ . >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time as we take a deep dive into what's happening around the country. that's next time, we'll see you then.

♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ >> be more, pbs.

good evening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley. tonight a look back at our conversation with director barry jenkins. his film "moonlight" won three academy awards at last month's oscars ceremony. best supporting actor, best adapted screenplay, and most prestigious best picture in the now-infamous onstage mixup. we're glad you've joined us. a conversation with director barry jenkins in just a moment. ♪"moonlight". test. ♪