good evening from los angeles, i'm toof vis smiley. tonight first a conversation with a broadcast journalist leslie stall after four decades has a reporter the most vivid experienced of her life are not covering the white house or her stories from 60 mipz but become a grandmother. she joins us to talk about her best selling book, "becoming grandma" out now in paper work. then john waters to discuss his career and new book "make trouble" we're glad you joined us leslie stall and john waters in just a moment.

♪ and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. lnchts award winning brauft leslie stall has had to be tough throughout her career but when her first granddaughter was born she was blind side by emotion. she has "the new york times" best selling book "becoming grandma, the joys and science of

grandparenting" out now in paper book and it would do me an honor to have her on this program. you've never been on my show on this set. >> i'm so heap to be here with you. >> my career wouldn't have been complete had you not made bun visit so thank you. >> you're too lovely. thank you. >> what a great reason for a visit. let me just start with there are two or three things in here that i've learned from reading your text which has fascinated me. >> what. >> i did not know that of the humans there are only two animals who tloif become grandparents. >> that's my favorite thing in the book too. >> and they. >> whales and elephants. >> whales and elephants. >> and us. and for years and throw poll gifts were trying to figure out why we have grandmother's. in the animal kingdom if you no longer reproduce they die. and when i tell people this thez they always laugh. but it's absolutely true, we are

here to babe sit, that's our function and that's why bother parents use god out and hunt in the caveman time and grandma stayed back and raised the kids. >> sags nating fact toid. >> yes. >> the other thing i was -- i didn't just learn it but i was actually moved fwi emotionally moved by it, and that was the story you tell about the impact, biological impact that your grand babies had on your husband. that was arresting had the i had no idea. >> their putic. >> yes. >> yeah. and it's documented. bob simon, my colleague as well. >> yeah. >> both of them were -- well, we had our grandchildren together at the same time. both men were depressed and really with that kind of depression that medicine isn't helping, and the mib they had grandchildren, boop, gone. you know, just popped right out of their depression. and i went and interviewed a lot of psychiatrists and they said, oh, yes, we see this. >> why is it? >> these men get a new purpose

in life and they realize it. their line is going order in and particularly if they get to be involved in the grandchildren's lives. they have a real function. grandparents are very important for grandchildren. >> yes. >> and our grandfather can plunge himself into giving the children a sense of family, a sense of they come from a line. it's all very, reimportant for the kid and now we know for the grand zblarnt i meet people as i travel as you do, and i meet so many people, i've met so many people over the years who end up moving in their later years for one reason only. >> yeah. >> they wanted to be close to their grandchildren. and it ends up changing the kwauflt their life. and i always find myself doing what i do for a living, i'm like but how did it feel when you uprooted your life and left your friends and neighborhood and all that oouf you'd been living

around, how did it feel? and to a person none of that stuff outweighs the joy of being near thafr grandchildren. >> this is a trend now. >> yeah. >> with more and more grandparents doing that. uprooting and moving to their grandchildren. but, the reason it's more prevalent than it used to be is our kids, the young parents, need us more. they need the baby sitting help because child care's so expensive. >> yeah. >> and grandparents are spending more money on their grandchildren. and i don't mean with toys. >> sure. >> i mean big ticket items because our kids are both working and they really can't afford not to have serious help that doesn't charge them anything. we don't charge. we beg to be babysitters and don't charge a dime. >> the other piece of the story that i know you know well is that there are a lot ofry luct ant grandparents.

by reluctant i mean they didn't expect to have all of the duty and all the responsibility they have now at their age of raising their grandkids full time. >> oh, when they get custody. >> had they get custody because either the mother or father was crack addicted or something else went wrong and i can think of two or three people whose lives i'm intimately involved in, i mean, i'm interwoven in their lives, older persons i'm like the big brother for some of their grandkids because the parents just couldn't handle it or got themselves in trouble or some addiction and now they're raising their -- you know i think of a woman right now, she's 88 years old and her grandson is just about to finish high school. she has raised this boy basically from birth and she's found great joy in it. back up she did not expect at 88 to be raising her grandkid. >> no. and what you said right here in this conversation, a lot of those grandparents look upon it as a new lease on life, a reason

to live and have a new purpose and other grandparents restent terribly. ajd the trick to to try to bring the recenters over to the other side. >> i have a lot of friends who are my age or friends who are certainly younger than i am, and you know this well, who are becoming grandparents at a much younger age. >> oh, really? >> if i had a dime for every one of my friends who refuses to let their grandkids call them grandma. >> oh, yeah. >> or grandpa, i'd be independently wealthy. so i suspect you're not in that crowd. but what do you -- >> oh, well. >> okay. okay. i was desperate to be a grandma. >> right. but just don't call you grandma. >> it wasn't for the reason because i was an older grand zbloerj right. >> but my daughter didn't want me to be granny. and she runs the roost, so she -- >> right. >> so we had to come up with names, my husband and i. you wanted to know ha they are? >> you know i'm about to ask, right. >> so my mother's real name was

dolly and all her grandchildren said it and said it early. and i wanted to have a name that they would say and not make up some other form of it. so i'm lolly. >> and when i decided on lolly, my lous said, okay then, i'm pop. and we're lollipop. it's terrible, right. >> isn't that cute. >> it's so cute, but that's what we are. >> i love '. >> and little kids from the beginning they don't get it. >> right. >> and i remember whenthy older granddaughter who's now six got it, ways there, she but the it together, oh. >> that is cute i think part of mine is cultural, the black experience. so my maternal grandmother we called her big mama. >> i like that. >> little mama and big mama. so my grandmother was big mama. my paternal grandmother we called her mother adele, so mother a dell and big mama by never used the term grandma or

grandpa in my life. >> about but did you call her big mama. >> yeah. >> i like that. where were you when i wastrying to -- that's really good. >> that's not nearly as cute as lollipop. >> but it's better. >> up win as always. let me ask, i don't know if there's an answer to this. let me ask and is that is whether or not having grandkids as in any way impacted your work, the way you see your work, the way you see your role, the way you see the world professionally has it impacted you? >> probably not. >> yeah, yeah. >> sfwu does impact the way i see the world because i worry about the future in a completely different way. >> i worry more about the future. i worry about two things mainly. i worry about the environment a lot, and i worry about technology. because the internet is taking over. we have lost control totally of this technology that we invented and it's -- you know, people say

one day well what's it going to run snus it's already there. i can't stand what it's doing to the way little kids spend their time. they don't play outside. >> i can't stand what it's done to friendships. we don't talk to our friends on the phony more. obviously it deeply afektded this last election, it's affected how -- it's affected democracy. i could go on and on. and i can't figure out how we get back flying the plane. how do we gain control over this now? >> if i said to you that the train has left the station. >> we can't accept that. we have to fight back. >> yeah. >> we have to find -- >> i was discussion this the other day, there's a great line in the at wood book that's popular all over again and the line says, we looked up from our phones too late. we looked up from our phones too late. >> that's terrifying. >> it is terrifying.

but i wonder sometimes, it impacts the way i see my role and my work and my witness. >> i wonder sometimes we just look up from our phones. >> we're sa come. >> yeah. >> it sent that the technology came and grabbed us, we gave ourselves. >> we surrendered. >> we surrendered and now it's time to have our -- we need some sort of activists to bring us into -- back to fight the war with the internet. >> maybe your grandkids will lead the way. >> no, or it's too late. now. now. >> i wouldn't let you come and leave without asking, and i'll ask you this broadly as i can so you go anywhere you goont since you kind of went there a moment ago. given this moment that we're in in our democracy to use the word you used a moment ago, how are you seeing our country and the world and how are you processing all this? >> well, of course i hate to admit that i've been in this

game, as you have, fora many years as i have. but my first assignment at cbs was watergalt, and that was in the very early '70s and it feels like that a little to me. that the country's terribly polarized when the vice president was coming after the press. where they had the vietnam war still as an issue, which we don't have a lot of that. i think is we forget how bad things were in the past. our mind always thinks it's worse now. so i feel that we've -- we are -- we're at each other's throats but we've been there before. >> yeah. >> and it's healing e healable, i believe. >> you hopeful? >> well, half and half. half hopeful. >> that's a fair answer. >> yeah. it's a disturbing time, no question. >> john dean. >> of course. >> sat in this chair a few days ago and we had a fascinating conversation and obviously since he was there as the white house counsel, fascinating to listen

to him draw the parallels between the nixonian moment and this trumpian moment. >> does he see a similarity. >> oh, does he. >> i think so. >> and it's basically bild built around this notion of authoritarianism. that nixon employed and that trump is employing. just a fascinating conversation to here john dean say that. >> i'm going to boo go back and watch it. >> use technology, don't be aprayed of it, download the show and watch it. leslie stall's book out in paper back is called "becoming grandma kwts new york times best seller pick it up eye promise you you'll enjoy it. good to have you on. up next, filmmaker john waters. stay with us. fill maker writer actor has been a fixture on the hollywood scene for decades he's known for

his films including "pink flamingo", kwt serial mom" and others. his new sbook called "make trouble" how could you not love that cover. before we start our conversation i look back at some of his iconic films. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ bless ♪

♪ ♪ >> you can't wear white shoes after labor day anymore. >> that's not true. >> yes it is. didn't your mother ever tell you? now you know. >> no, please, fashion has changed. >> no, it hasn't. >> they call these one half dimension about that of course patty hurst. >> she's great. she's a good stunt woman. you see hoer. kathleen said she can throw a pun 67 better than any stunt man i've ever worked with. >> patty her shall in a clip is amazing. i was just whispering to you how much i loved the hair strai spray live. >> yeah. i was supposed to play the flasher but i had another job wrarz doing my christmas show that night so i couldn't even do it. >> couldn't do your own stuff. >> exactly. >> when you see -- when you see

a clip real like that that looks back on your body of worork, ho does thafs what do you feel? >> i'm proud of it but i'm always look together future. i've done that, it's great, i got the writer skill lifetime achievement award this year so it's like being at your own funeral and hearing the nice things people say about you. >> and they all say nice things about you. >> sometimes. but i built a career on bad things they said about. >> he it worked out though. >> it did. >> i did not know all the years i've been watching you and following your work and reading your stuff, i don't know how i missed how you came to have the pencil mustache. those who haven't heard the story, will you share is it. >> i just wanted to be little richard when i was a kid because she scared -- she -- he scared my grandmother because i would come hoet at 8 years old and put on lieu sill and she'd be what the hell is that noise. i brought a black man them to my grandmother's house for the

first time and it scared hir, especially one that looked like little richard. she's scared today. >> so this became a frib beaut. >> yeah, little richard. and the guy in the platter's hat, and old '30s movie hat. i wanted to look like a hippy luna tick, a different look that hippies didn't have at the time. >> it's amazing how something so simple could become part of your -- >> yeah, if i go to jail and i can't get the pencil, you know. >> if that thing wasn't there i'd be like he kind of looks like john john water but he doesn't have. >> i know, it's a give away. >> so, i love this book. >> thank you. >> it's a beautiful thing but. >> booklet. >> you call it booklet, i like that. but it's a beautiful thing when something this small can pack such a powerful punch. there's some good advice in this book. >> thank you. i was asked to be the comens

meant speaker at an art school and i thought they're asking me i never graduated from any school. i gave the speech and it went viral, i never through the it was going to be a book. but it came out to be i think you could be graduateding from anywhere. this book works if it's grade school, reform school, parole, any kind of gradation you're doing you're just moving on to the next thing. >> it works so well that i highlighted three-pages. you might just -- you got your glasses? >> i goat my glasses. >> three pages that i'm going to ask you to read for me. just simple stuff. here's the first one. >> i should say right off that i'm really qualified to be your comens meant speaker. i was success spinded from high school and kicked out of college on the first marn scandal ever on the university campus and i've been arrested three times. >> and our qualified. >> today may be the end of your juvenile delinquent e consequencesy but it should be the first dave your new adult disobedience. i pink that's very important. just because you're old doesn't mean you have to be dull. it's okay to hate the poor too

but only the poor of spirit, not wealth. a poor person to me can have a big bank balance but is uncurious, judgmental, isolated and unavailable to change. >> yeah. >> not bad advice. >> not bad advice at all. we all learn this kind of good advice from a variety of places and people, where have you learned and picked up some of your greatest lessons in life? >> from my parents who were basically horrified at the work i did but at the same tie knew i liked it and what else could they do so they made me feel safe and encouraged me even though they were embarrassed because nobody said i was good in the beginning. from my mistakes i'm broad proud of my mistakes just as much. a movie i made in 1969 for $5,000 "multiple main yakz" just came out again and r was rlgs and restored which is hilarious, a classiest distributor. so you just stick around if they can't get rid of you they start

to embrace you that's one thing i've learned. and a no is free, just keep asking. if you're in show business you're going to get rejected your whole life, you're going to get bad reviews and not do well so basically get used to it just kooept keep asking. it's like hitchhiking which i did another time i hitchhiked across the country. you only need one car, you don't need a hundred cars are you need one car to stop. >> where did you get the affidavi confidence to pursue things that people told you that you weren't even qualified to do? >> well think there you're obsessed. you don't ask how to do it you just do it. but show biz is based on people that are insecure. i had a stage when i was 12 years old. >> i had a puppet show career. >> i wrote horror stories in camp and all the parents called and complained. that was my birs gofirst good td

i. my last movie was about sex addicts, a comedy. so i don't think i changed that much, i just kept doing what made me laugh and i was never mean. >> yeah. that's the profit line that you were never mean. >> i don't think ways mean. >> i made fun of things. >> you were never mean. >> i make fuchb things but things i love. like all the characters in my movies i don't like reality tv, i don't want to look down on people. i want to you look up to my characters. they're still horrifying but they believe in themselves, that end koof thing. so i don't think even when i make fun of things i'm mean spirited. >> i ask that because there's a lot of that in the world today. >> and mean can be funny for five minutes, it can't be funny for 50 years. >> another quote. part two. that was a good one. >> not reform school. i was actually asked to run a are reform school for real and i wanted to, but i was going to ask famous criminals to come do master classes and stuff, but

then i'd have to give up my career to be a full-time warden. so you can't have actor, warden, writer, film director. there is such a thing as a bad boy. >> tell me how you got comfortable -- let me preface it this way. when i think of it, it is your difference that makes the difference. >> well thank you. >> it's your difference that's made the difference in your career, but the question is how did you get comfortable being so different? because i know there are a lot of young people who struggle with that all the time. how do they get comfortable being ditch? >> i'm not saying i didn't go through stuff, but the bullies didn't beat me up because they thought i was crazy and they kept away from me. by just having interest and reading and "life" magazine core rupted me. i knew about suburban baltimore, so my curiosity led me to read and to go outside the boundaries that i was expected to do.

and that's what i saulz say in bast more there was racial travel, how you deal with racist. travel. no one can be a racist if they travel. anderson it's a tough thing that someone says you're going to paris, but it would work because if you're well traveled, the further you leave from the neighborhood you were born in the more open minded you're going to be. >> how did your neighborhood factor into your story, the story of who you are and who you've become? >> i grew up in balt nor which say stiff extremes, sternal. my parents even though they were mortified at what i was doing they encouraged it because i think they thought what else could i do. there weren't a lot of other job omgz i could have done really. >> i wanted to own a junkyard as a child, i used to smash cars and think oh my god there's been an zunt accident and my mother would take me to junk yards. >> i think back on that because that was really loving because they didn't say in the dr. spok

do what do you do if your son wants to own a junkyard and smashes cars all the time. >> that's a lot of love. >> it was. >> for your parents to have embraced. >> you that's all i say your parent has to make your child feel safe. you can be a serial killer and be a good parent, i believe it's possible. >> i'm processing that. i didn't want to say a men to that too soon. anybody hit me on that. >> just to your one child. i'm not saying to the rest of the world, but could you raise your child well no matter dwhau as long as you made that child feel safe. >> i'm going to pro sthaes and pray on it. >> all right. >> i'll let you know what i see you again. >> okay. all right. >> if it worked. >> what i came to. so you're staying busy as always these days. >> oh, always. writing another book called "mr. know it all" which is how to avoid respectability at 70 if you accidentally get it. and another novel about a woman that steals suitcases in

airports called liar mouth and i'm always looking to see how do is that. >> i don't know where this stuff comes from. >> that's my job. every morning i pick up weird things in the afternoon i sell it. >> another quote. think of weird things in the morning, sell them in the afternoon. john waters book is called "make trouble" he's been doing it for a lot of years and he's done very well making trouble. john waters honor to have you on. thank you have sir. that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching and as always keep the faith. ♪ for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. hi, i'm tavis smiley join me next time for jonas moyers. that's next time. we'll see you then.

♪ and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank

good freng los angeles i'm tavis smiley. tonight a conversation with one of europe yez's most prominent thinkers rutger bregman. he joins us to talk about "utopia for realists" then we'll pivot to a conversation three-time oscar nominee debra winger about her leading film. we're glad you joined us, rutger bregman and debra winger in just a