>> rose: welcome to the program. we begin with a terrorist attack in manchester monday night. we talk to former new york city police commissioner ray kelly and caroline hyde of bloomberg television in london. >> we had some foiled as a result of intelligence, some from n.s.a., some from informants. so you have to try to drill down, get intelligence as much as possible. it's become much more difficult. using, you know, apps that encrypt messages, that sort of thing, they've upped their game. the lone wolves upped their game in terms of what they can learn from the internet. so it's increasingly dealt. >> rose: we continue with adam

schiff, ranking democrat on the house intelligence committee, and continuing coverage of russian investigation by congress. >> i have said yes and i still maintain that there is evidence of collusion, but i want people to understand, we are at the very beginning of an investigation, and we need to follow the evidence wherever it leads. i'm not prepared to make any conclusis about the strength of the evidence once we conclude our investigation, but there was a good basis for the f.b.i. to begin its investigation, and i think there is a good basis for the t.b.i. to continue its investigation. i think there was a good basis for at a appointment of bob mueller. i don't think any of these steps take place because this is just a suspicion or someone's hunch. >> rose: and we conclude this evening with restaurateur stephen starr who just won the james beard award. >> i think i'll always feel like an outsider. i feel like i'm an outsider in general. i always feel like i'm throwing

a party and standing in the corner watching everyone enjoy it. but i feel like i came, conquered and won and that feels very, very good. but that doesn't mean i can sit back. i want to continue. >> rose: the bombing in manchester, england, testimony on the hill and restaurateur stephen starr, when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: we begin this evening

with terrorism overseas, a deadly suicide bombing at manchester arena monday night left 22 dead and more than 50 injured. in the deadliest terrorist attack in print since 2005, when explosives on london's transit system killed 52. i.s.i.s. claimed responsibility for the attack which took place at an ariana grande concert. manchester police identified the suspected bonder as 22-year-old salman abedi, a british citizen. president trump condemned the attack calling the perpetrators tuesday. here is scott pelley. >> the prime minister in london raised the terrorist threat to critical. soldiers are being deployed. a makeshift memorial is growing for victims of the uh suicide bombing last night at the manchester arena. at least 22 were killed and 59 wounded. an unknown number of others are

still unaccounted for. relatives are pleading for help in locating them. this attack was different. the targets included many young children and teenagers attending a concert. among the dead, saffie rose roussos, just eight years old. her principal said she will be remembered for her warmth, kindness and creative flair. georgiana was a huge fan of ariana grande. john atkinson was 26, a dancer. his dance company described him as an amazingly happy, gentle person. the sunday post -- the sun posted a photo of the man who took their lives and we have the latest on how it happened. >> it was an attack not on a crowd of concertgoers but innocents themselves. first a thud, then confusion.

>> oh, my god! then panic. the audience for ariana grande is young, often female and sometimes of elementary aifnlgt this was the deliberate targeting of children. an arena for sinful parties i.s.i.s. called it in their admission of responsibility. >> we were in the arena and we heard a bomb and. >> just really confused. creaming and crying. the bomber came from a few miles away where police were searching today. a s.w.a.t. team went into a home of a 22-year-old local man police say who was known to them and himself died in the murderous blast he set off. manchester police chief ian hopkins -- >> i can confirm the man

suspected of carrying out last night's atrocity is 22-year-old salman abedi. however, he has not yet been formally named by the coroner and i wouldn't wish to therefore comment any further about him. >> a major anti-terror investigation is trying to determine whether salman abedi had acted alone as the police first said or whether he had help in planning his attack and building his bomb. either way this attack was another example of home-grown terror. police made at least one arrest today of a 23-year-old man they said was in connection with the bombing. the bombing had been built to kill and maim, packed with bolts, nuts and nails and left the concertgoers who survived traumatized. >> what happened is so unreal. it really hits you.

trying to get in contact with everybody. >> manchester, a proud working-class town now joins london and berlin and nice and brussels and madrid and all the other places where innocents have tied in europe's current reign of terror. >> rose: caroline hyde joins me of bloomberg television, also ray kelly former new york city police commissioner. pleased to have both of them this evening. caroline, tell us what is the latest we know about the investigation, about the circumstances that happened there. >> well, charlie, breaking news of 24 hours, as you mentioned, the worst terrorist atrocities to hit this country. in more than a decade, we've seen the british prime minister take a stand and move the terror threat in the united kingdom from a status of severe to critical. the british public are worried

another attack could be imminent. manchester, more than half a million people living there, have been having much police activity throughout the day. there have been raids, activity to find out whether this was a lone ranger, an individual who was the suicide bomber, or whether there were accomplices. we understand one particular individual, one young male has also been arrested today. so much activity. as we move from severe to critical threat element in the u.k., we'll see many more military on the ground, protection of sporting events, like the football, the soccer as you call it, at the arena, rugby at the rein narks we're likely to see much more protection going forward. >> rose: what do we know about the suspect that died? >> yes, indeed, it was a suicide bomb, and potentially looks as if it could have been a

self-made mail device. but we know he was british-born and bred. he came from libyan origin. looks as though his parents were refugees from libya, but he was born and bred in manchester, a city in the north of england and actually known for itsette lick diversity, for the melting pot it is in terms of ethnicities, more than 150 languages spoken in this one city alone. but we know the islamic state has taken to saying that this, indeed, was them and, therefore, we wonder whether there has been some sort of indoctrination that went on of this individual, salman abedi, 22 years old. >> rose: commissioner kelly, thank you for joining us. >> good to be with you, charlie. >> rose: what questions would you be asking tonight of your officers over there, generally when officers from the nypd go there to make sure they can get as much information as possible? >> yeah, they have been very welcomed.

they're right in the command center. so, obviously, we want as much information as possible, as much granular information. i'd like to know a lot more about this apedi. the fact the terror level has been raised to critical, the highest level, might indicate this individual was not in fact a lone wolf but somehow tied to another group and that they anticipate his death triggering more attacks. don't know that, but it's interesting that it was raised today, based on what appeared to be at least a lone wolf activity from 3,000 miles away. >> rose: how does society protect itself from these kinds of attacks? >> with great difficulty. intelligence is the key. we had 16 plots on the bloomberg administration. they all were foiled in one way or the other, some the result of luck, others the result of

intelligence. some from n.s.a., some from informants. so you have to try to drill down, get intelligence as much as possible. it's become much more difficult. using, you know, apps that encrypt messages, that sort of thing. they've upped their game, even the lone wolves have upped their game in terms of what they can learn from the internet. so it's gotten increasingly difficult to identify individuals. >> rose: and you can go to the internet and learn how to make some of these bombs. >> you can go to the internet like that and find out the readily used material by terrorists and a series of other things. did that today, went to a web site and it showed, like, five bomb iterations that could be made very easily. so it's not a question of learning how to do it. it's there. it's laid out for you in black and white. >> rose: but with the -- do you sense now that i.s.i.s.,

because of losing the ground, losing the caliphate, used this as its -- views this as its next target of opportunity, congregations of people in western cities? >> last week they put out a video, 44-minute video that does exactly that. because they are apparently about to lose mosul, or pretty soon, they are getting desperate and want a presence and want to be able to impact the world. that's what this video was all about. unfortunately, i think we're going to see more of this sort of thing as they lose mosul and raqqa is attacked. >> rose: if i.s.i.s. takes credit for it, in terms of your experience, when a terrorist organization takes credit, generally are they responsible? in other words do, they take credit for things they don't do a significant part of the time or generally if they take credit, they, in fact, did it.

>> generally, if they take credit, they did. i.s.i.s., in particular, has a certain credibility. when they say they've done something or more likely they've inspired it now. they claim, you know, they're inspiring these types of events. >> rose: home-grown people are better because they're not known necessarily or don't have contact? >> well, this is what the message is, go forth and do whatever you can, you know. al-denny was a spokesperson for i.s.i.s. till killed by a drone put out the message, kill the dirty french and the americans, kill them with the rocks, stab them, run them over with your car. this message goes out thousands and thousands times a day over the internet. that's what some people will respond to and that the what they're claiming credit for. they are bringing forth that message. >> rose: caroline, we saw the british prime minister make a

very eloquent statement and as you suggested calling on the british spirit and condemning this part of the condemnation in this particular case seems that it was so brutal in terms of killing children. they knew exactly where people would be streaming out of this concert which had a lot of young teenage and even younger fans at the exit there. what -- >> that's exactly right. >> rose: speak more to that. i think that is what struck so much to the heart of every britain who has heard about this and every european, every american, everyone around the world. a quarter of those who seemed to have been injured were under 16. ariana grande is known for her youthful following and fan base. it was largely teenagers, children and their parents that were attending this event and the fact that it occurred just as pink balloons were being lifted off in the arena, you can see the juxtaposition in

people's minds' eye of seeing such happiness and entertainment and terror as they run from the door and parents separated from their children and the concern and lack of knowledge of where the children have gone and many separated from their families, so i think it has struck very much to the root of u.k. and this comes as an unnerving time not only as we build toward a general election in the united kingdom but comes just a couple of months after an attack on westminster itself and this struck many a chord and many a question raised as to why the terrorist threat wasn't raised soon after that attack, that was again a lone wolf driving in his van into the houses of parliament and killing many. >> rose: what do we know about the bomb itself? sometimes it can be an identifying mark for who did it. >> this is where some of the reports become hazy but as we understand there were reports on the ground of those who were caught up in the commotion that there were nails, pieces of

shrapnel about the place that made many anticipate this would be a mail bomb of some sort and used by this individual and you can learn how to make it off the internet. there have been clamp downs in the u.k. for any parts and provisions to make the devices but looks as though they can be made and such brutal effect that we have 22 people killed shows to the difficulty and the pain that this sort of element can inflict. >> rose:. it's interesting to note ariana grande, an american entertainer and at the bataclan in france you had the eagles of death metal, another american band playing or another american group, so we don't know if that means anything or not but hopefully that will be sorted out as the investigation goes forward. >> rose: this country has not been immune from these kinds of things. a whole range of different kinds of things. but we have not had that kind of

attack -- we had the attack in orlando, but it seemed to be from a different kind of source. what if we done and what should we expect? >> well, i think we're doing a pretty good job here. there is a lot of coordination, i think, in europe. people will admit the coordination and information challenge is it's not following from country to country as it should. last september we had a bomb go off in new york city on 23r 23rd street, he wasn't on anybody's radar screen and we were very lucky. i think all things considered, since 9/11, this country has done a pretty good job of protecting itself. not perfect, but i think we have to basically do more of the same, and it takes a lot of resources to do it. >> rose: the man who perpetrated this crime, this awful crime was known to police.

how much did they know and what did they know? >> well, it seems as though there are still many investigations going into this. they know his ethnic origin and where he was brought up. seems some of the reports came from the united states, the telegraph, the newspaper in the united kingdom was saying his background was inciting u.s. sources. so perhaps not much is understood about the background but to be able to raise the severity of the concerns in the u.k. to critical as you were discussing earlier means perhaps this is something that he did not work alone on and perhaps there were accomplices and there were many raids happening within manchester and the city and north of the u.k. and indeed some arrests being made on the back of that. >> rose: caroline, thanks for joining us. mr. kelly, great to see you. >> good to see you, charlie. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: we continue with the ongoing congressional russia probe former c.i.a. director john brennan testified before

the house intelligence committee today. brennan said he had come across intelligence that revealed contacts and interactions between russian officials and u.s. persons involved in the trump campaign. he described russian efforts to influence the election in trump's favor but could not confirm whether the trump campaign knowingly colluded with the kremlin. president trump denied any ties between his campaign and russian officials. washington reported monday trump asked dan coats and michael rogers in march of n.s.a. to publicly deny any evidence of collusion. joining me adam schiff, ranking democrat on the house intelligence committee. pleased to have him back ton this program. congressman, thank you for joining us. this has been a day of a lot of news including the president being in israel and including the fact that we've had this awful tragedy in manchester. but let me begin and come back because when the president comes back, this will once again be at the top of the news.

what did we learn today from john brennan? >> well, we learned from john brennan that he was concerned about the context he saw between russian officials and those associated with the trump campaign that he forwarded the information to the f.b.i. for a counterintelligence investigation. he, i think, talked about how alarm bells went off with him when he saw these contacts and it weren't that they were just contacts. of course, there are contacts between russians and americans all the time, but it was happening with the presidential campaign and at a time where he knew the russians were engaged in a brazen effort to influence our election is really i think what concerned him so much. he wasn't able to tell us really anything about what the f.b.i. investigation led to thereafter, so he couldn't talk about when they follow these leads what evidence they may have uncovered. but he did talk about for the first time the concerns that he had very early on about those contacts. he also talked -- and i thought

this was notable -- in reference to that white house meeting the president had with the russian ambassador and russian foreign minister that, yes, there are times we share intelligence with other countries, classified intelligence, including the russians, but it's never done impromptu, it's done through classified and intelligence channels, that's the protocol because you need to make sure you're protecting sources and he said if that wasn't done here and this was just some kind of spur of the moment statement by the president, that's a real problem because it could dry up sources of information and, considering, charlie, that the issue here was an i.s.i.s. threat to our aviation, at least that's what's been recorded, any compromise or sources going to that threat is serious indeed. >> rose: john brennan talked about a visit he made after learning what he thought and feared about russia's effort to affect our elections. that he talked to the head of i think f.s.b. successor to the k.g.b. in russia. >> yes, bordnekov talked about

him about the harassment of personnel and engagement, this interference. it was notable that he said to him that this would backfire and americans would never stand for this. sadly, that wasn't completely true in terms of what would follow thereafter because you did have one of the presidential candidates and donald trump publicly egging on the russians saying, hey, russians, if you're listening, hack hillary clinton's e-mails, you will be richly rewarded. so notwithstanding the private warning brennan was giving his counterpart in the kremlin, you had a presidential candidate with a very different message saying we openly invite you to hack into our election process. >> rose: was your committee interested in having general michael flynn come? >> oh, yes. we've invited him, requested

documents, he's turned down the requests and we're in the midst of having our own deliberations of how to further pursue them and what come pulsery process is necessary to get that information. >> rose: there is also the question of whether president trump asked dan coats and rogers that this was no evidence of collusion. what can you tell us? >> we saw director coats not willing to answer that question. we feed to bring him in in closed session to get an answer from him and director rogers. if it goes into the effort to interfere from the investigation, that's very serious. if it was an effort to politicize the intelligence agencies by getting them out there to push back on a narrative that the white house was afraid of or didn't like, that's a different problem but nonetheless another very serious problem. so ultimately, we'll have to get to the bottom of this just as

we'll have to get to the bottom of the allegations that the president improperly urged comey to drop the flynn investigation entirely. we need to find out if there were contemporaneous memos and contain those and likewise with coats an rogers if they or their staff memorialized these conversations with the president, we need that information as well. >> rose: we have a number of investigations going on. house intelligence committee, the senate intelligence committee, the committee of counsel. robert mueller is his own investigation. how do they cooperate? >> well, this is a very important point, not only that we do need to cooperate and we need to have a good channel of mechanism to do that, and michael flynn's a perfect illustration. before we would ever entertain a request for immunity like the one that he has made, we would want to talk with bob mueller to find out what are your prosecutorial equities, what would we sacrificing p if we went forward with any grant of

immunity, so those kind of communications have to go on. but the broader point is very important for people to understand, too, with people asking, well, with the special council now, what is the relationship of the congressional probes and are they any less important now? these are two very different jobs. mueller will ultimately decide does the evidence lead to the ople that have violated u.s. law? if he doesn't make that decision, in other words, if he makes the decision not to bring charges, ehe may not be able to say anything about what he found and whether he found evidence that it didn't rise to level of proof beyond a reasonable doubt or if he brings charges he found evidence on certain people but not able to comment on others, part of the job of congress is to find out the the full picture of what russians did, yes, whether they had personal involvement but what use they made of media platform, whether there were other efforts to

blackmail or compromise persons affiliated with the campaign but also to make the public so that the public is kept along in the hearings like we had today but importantly when the investigation over so that country understands what took place and we can protect ourselves in the future. >> rose: what do you make of the fact that, as a newspaper editor said to eme opt cbs morning show this morning, that most of the president's pushback has been to the russian probe? what's that say to you? >> obviously, this is something that deeply concerns the president, that he is using every opportunity to bat down, to pray jour advertise. this is -- to pray jortyize. he wants to call it a fake news story. it begs the question why this focus by the president on trying to diminish the significance of something, that even in the most

generally level, there is -- general level, there is universal acceptance of and that is the very fact of russian involvement in hacking of our election, he is still suggesting it could have been china. you know, that really does beg a lot of questions. why is he the last person in the country that can accept, no, tis was a russian active measures campaign directed at our election. so, you know, i'm not sure i can explain it, but it certainly does raise pretty profound questions. >> rose: a couple of points about that. number one, as he denied the fact that russia may have tried to influence the election or simply said yes they may have tried to do it but other countries have tried to do it as well? >> well, like many of the things the president says and dues, it's a bit scatter shot. he has both said this is a witch hunt, fake news. at times he said, well, okay, i think it was the russians, but it still could have been the chinese. and, so, he's a bit all over the map. i think, at the root of it is

two things. at the root of it is the idea that he's used this as somehow diminishing his electoral college success because he keeps coming back to how he won the electoral college, and it's so hard for republicans even though, frankly, republicans seem to win the electoral college just as often as democrats. but more than that, there is plainly a bedrock of concern about the russia investigation that led him to fire director comey, to take that exceptional step with someone who had a ten-year term of office. so, obviously, the most pressing question for us is is there more to the reason why the president is opposing this investigation, is trying to diminish and downplay this investigation, and we need to simply follow the facts wherever they lead. >> rose: have you seen any evidence that anybody from the russian team -- i'm sorry -- anybody from the trump election team or transition team colluded with the russians? have you seen any evidence of

that in terms of what you have witnessed? >> you know, i have said yes, and i still maintain that there is evidence of collusion, but i want people to understand, we are at the very beginning of an investigation, and we need to follow the evidence wherever it leads. i'm not prepared to make any conclusions about the strength of the evidence once we conclude our investigation. but there was a good basis for the f.b.i. to begin its investigation. i think there's a good basis for the f.b.i. to continue its investigation. i think there was a good basis for the appointment of bob mueller. i don't think any of these steps take place because this is just a suspicion or someone's hunch. so i think we're doing the responsible thing, which is a thorough investigation. >> rose: but is it circumstantial evidence? >> from my point of view it is not purely circumstantial. i can't and i don't want to go into the specifics of the

evidence we have been presented. one of the challenges we have, charlie, is not all of us have seen the same evidence. one of us who are part of the gang of eight get one level of briefing, in the intelligence committee get a different level of briefing, those in the judiciary commity that sheldon and lindsey graham, a ranking member, get a different level of evidence, part of the reason different members see the evidence in different ways. >> rose: you can confirm the person of interest is high up in the white house? >> no, i can't confirm or make comment on who the f.b.i. may or may not be looking at. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you, my pleasure. >> rose: we'll be right back. stay with us. # knee stephen starr is here, owner of more than 30 restaurants across four states and two countries. earlier this month he took home

the prestigious james beard award for outstanding restaurateur. the "new york times" said of his range, each of mr. starr has its own stale, asian, la teen o steak, comfort food, italian places an an english gastro pub. none bear the stamp of a corporate entity. pleased to have stephen starr at the table for the first time. welcome. >> thank you. >> rose: i have eaten in your restaurants, in philadelphia and here. but you have been called the accidental restaurateur, in part because you didn't set out -- you are not some mother's son who loved cooking and wanted to create your own restaurant. you were an entertainer, an empresario, so to speak. >> my goal since i was 12 was to be in the entertainment business and produce movies.

when i was little, i wanted to be a disc jockey on the radio. >> rose: how long did that last? >> i wanted to do that since i was ten. i did it when i was 16 and again when i was 17. but i was a concert promoter for most of my adult life doing big shows, and that's really what i wanted to do. and my dream was always to produce movies and television. >> rose: but you ended up in restaurants. >> ended up in restaurants, accidentally. i sold my concert business in 1993, did not know what the deal was. >> rose: in philadelphia. that was in philadelphia. >> rose: yeah. didn't really know anything else other than that. i knew maybe how to produce events, and i just wondered what i could do. i said, you know, there's a void here in philadelphia. it's not very exciting. i'm kind of board. i want to -- i'm kind of bored and i wanted to open something i would enjoy. so i started researching and came up with the first restaurant idea.

>> rose: what was that? back then the martini craze had not started in america. as a matter of fact, when you were young, people really didn't know what a martini was. everyone was drinking wine or beer or dark liquors. there was a craze developing in california, i went to see it, and in new york a place on first avenue called global 33, and i said this martini thing looks cool, a lot of young people making believe they were their grandparents. i opened a martini bar with food. the next thing i know the movie "swingers" came out and, boom, there was a giant, giant demand for it. >> rose: 1995? 1995, i opened the continental. >> rose: did you find your experience in concert planning was helpful? >> yes, i think the year's presenting events, i did madonna's first tour, and i saw so much from the production standpoint that i knew that selling concert tickets would

help me sell people to come in to the restaurant. so it was -- i was promoting. i was promoting an idea. in this case, back in '95, i was promoting martinis, and it worked. they were lined literally around the block. >> rose: how has it changed since 1995? you have been successful and we'll walk through some of the restaurants and some of the things that make good restaurants today. but how has the business changed? >> in 1995, especially in philadelphia, it was sort of the wild west. there wasn't much there. so any novel idea, any exciting youthful idea just took off. what happened is then in the years to follow, the food network became a thing. >> rose: television. television. foodies, chefs, overnight chefs were celebrities. so chefs became the rock star. >> rose: they became celebrities. >> yeah, instead of booking u2 or the rhythmics, i was booking

big name chefs. both a blessing and curse for us, for restaurateurs. >> rose: why a blessing and why a curse? >> a blessing because everyone now became a foody. people who had no knowledge of food, maybe no taste, all became experts. so that was good. a curse because everyone became experts, so they were super critical, and you had to really appeal to the culinary demands of the public or what the public thought were culinary demands. so you couldn't just have a chef. he had to be a named chef, and it created another stress on the restaurateur, that you couldn't just open a great restaurant with a guy or woman no one knew, you had to, like, know them. >> rose: it's also become part of the deejay business today. >> yes, absolutely. >> rose: known deejays, not those on the radio, but those

who perform for large crowds. >> deejays are the equivalent to what we grew up with the beatles or le led zepplin. there are deejays -- i don't understand it, personally, i don't get it, but they are superstars. some of them get a million dollars a gig. >> rose: is that right? yes, yes. >> rose: because they know how to mix songs and they know how to create a kind of atmosphere that makes people want to dance? >> they create an energy, an experience. so going to concerts back in pi day and your day, it was about, like we studied the album cover and the lyrics and we knew the drummer. >> rose: right. but it's a whole different ball game today. >> rose: when you were in philadelphia, did you want to come to new york? >> i always wanted to come to new york. in philadelphia, and i love philadelphia, it's really the reason why i'm successful is that town and the people there, but i always -- >> rose: you still live there? i still live there. i have an apartment in new york city, but i knew i would never

be taken super seriously until i made it in new york. i was nominated a couple of times when i was only in philadelphia and nominated for restaurateur of the year. i would go knowing there was no way i would ever win. you know, this james beard thing, i think, subconsciously, was an underlining motivation for me to win all these years. >> rose: an underlying motivation to win the award? was like an oscar for you? >> it was an oscar and, also, because i wasn't taken seriously in the beginning because i was like -- who was i? i was a concert promoter who had no knowledge of food. i couldn't cook. a lot of -- i think a lot of the food people, the food press and some of the big-name chefs looked at me, like, he's just some putz from philadelphia,

little fish, big pond. i wasn't just a promoter. i think some of the impressions of me is i was just a business guy coming in who didn't care about food. i passionately cared about food and i wanted to prove to myself and the food community that i am serious about this and i am good. >> rose: how difficult is it to make it in new york in the food world, in the restaurant world? >> i'm going to say something, it was very difficult to make it in new york, and it was very difficult in philadelphia, too. for another reason, in philadelphia, it was like being in a small town. the same people came every day. would say the seem lawyer and dentist every time. you can't disappoint people in your hometown. >> rose: because you want regulars. >> yes, we don't have the transient population you have in new york city, and in philadelphia it's a great place to hone my craft.

they came in and said, this stinks today, what's wrong with you? i tell you something, i honed my craft there. by the time i was good at this, i went on the new york, and it was very, very difficult because the media here, the press, i think they saw me coming and wanted to sort of take a couple of shots at me. >> rose: and you were good in philadelphia, you ain't seen nothing yet. >> yeah. >> rose: you opened what restaurant in 2006. >> budican and maury motto. he was on iron chef and had a cult following from japan. felt good about that. budican i was scared to des and had to make noise. didn't know if it would be accepted. i hired incredible designers like the best in the world, the pulitzer prize winner in japan

and moory motto, interior designers. >> rose: to create the ambience inside the restaurant. >> yes, so it would be awe-inspiring when people walked in. something else i did, i was a big boxing fan when i was a kid, i watched mohamed ali and howard cosell, i knew what mohamed was doing. he was talking a lot of s-h back then and what he did was get people interested in him and the fight. so i knew i had to say something to get the press interested. i said something to a reporter i think from the new york post-that i think there hasn't been a big opening in new york for ten or 20 years and i'm going to do the next big opening. my goodness, i said it kind of spontaneously but thinking about mohamed ali, and that quote went everywhere and every newspaper

picked up on it and i looked like the punk. they couldn't wait. i knew i had to live up to the bragging i had done, which i wasn't that serious about, but was just trying to shake things up. >> when you think about coming to new york and think about the kind of restaurants you want, factor in notions that are important to a restaurant's location. what is it about locations? >> when i was -- >> rose: what makes a good location? >> a good location is many things. it's not just the corner of main and main. that's what you need for a starbucks. >> rose: right. or a department store. a location for a restaurant has to be a great -- literally a great location but it's got to be cool. at least for me, there had to be at least the illusion that we were on the edge, we weren't mainstream. so i saw the meat packing district back then, and it wasn't developed yet. there was development, but it wasn't developed yet, and i knew that this place, which was the middle of everything, really, was the right place for budican

and maury motto. >> rose: what about lighting? lighting is probably the biggest element, in my opinion, of any restaurant. i'll share secrets with my fellow restaurateurs, it's probably the thing that's made us more successful than a lot of people because we spent so much time on the lighting and i hired such great lighting designers. it changes the experience. you don't even know it. the customer doesn't even know why they had a great time or why this felt so good or so sexy. and often it is the lighting. >> rose: and music. well -- >> rose: i go to restaurants in new york and you can hardly hear yourself at times. >> yeah, so the music thing has changed over the years. when i first starred, remember the baby boomers were young and so excited, and music -- restaurants when i first started, a lot of them were

boring. so we pumped up the music and made the ambience so exciting and that's what people wanted. today, the music thing was done so much and people want it more quiet. even younger people want to be able to talk. >> rose: you want to be able to hear. >> because restaurants have become entertainment for young people. restaurants used to be for our parents. let's go out to dinner saturday. great, dad. now everyone goes out, and 25-year-olds go out, and it's like going to the movies. they're going to a restaurant and they're talking about it. >> rose: they want it to be a happening, an event. >> yeah, and the whole social media -- in my restaurants, 30% of the people are taking pictures. >> rose: of the food. all night long, everything, which gets you nervous because maybe something plated well, did they find a fly? you know, you go crazy thinking what they're taking pictures of. >> rose: i go to restaurants

with people and they have gone online and have gone through and looked at all the pictures of the food so they know exactly what they want based on a photograph of the food they saw online. >> i don't totally get it but it's a thing and we're part of it. >> rose: is there a trend today in terms of what kinds of restaurants? i mean, beyond farm to home or home to farm or whatever that is? what is it? >> farm to table. that's so overdone. i'm looking for the next trend. in the end, i think things have gotten a little boring. seems like we need to shake it up and come up with some new ideas. there's a lot of repetition and just, you know, changing things a little bit and really the same old thing. i actually think that probably the more innovations happening outside of new york because it's so expensive now to do a restaurant, entrepreneurs are scared to do anything too different. >> rose: it's happening in los angeles? >> no, i think it's probably happening in, like, charleston

and seattle and probably in nashville and little places i haven't been yet that we want to go to. >> rose: i agree because i go to all those cities and, you know, you can always find good restaurants in those cities, and young chefs and, in some cases, they have moved back from new york. >> absolutely. >> rose: because they want to live in a different kind of place. >> yeah, there are chefs here that they just can't take living here because they have to live in, you know, queens or further -- >> rose: and they start raising a family. >> and have kids and go let's go back home to north carolina. >> rose: closer to the grandparents. >> but they learn so much in new york. they've got the new york thing. >> rose: vibe. and they go to their hometown and take over. so, you know, we'll see. >> rose: and you have restaurants, how many? >> 34. >> rose: and how many cities? we are in philadelphia, new york city, atlantic city, miami, fort lauderdale and paris and washington. >> rose: so how is washington

different from atlantic city? atlantic city is -- >> vegas and a tourist from philadelphia and new york. washington is an incredible city for restaurants. >> rose: it's gotten every day better. >> it's getting better. it's underserved. there's not enough. people want to go out. they're young and excited, or at least they used to be excited when they worked under the last administration. >> rose: yeah. and washington is a sleeper city that restaurateurs should absolutely consider. >> rose: how many restaurants do you have there? >> one but two other leases we're about to sign. >> rose: so you want to build as many restaurants as you can? >> i don't know. >> rose: why are you doing this? >> i have to lay down on the couch. >> rose: the doctor is in. i'm not sure. i have add and i'm bored. once the restaurant opens, i've always said opening night is the

saddest night for me. most puople think that's the happy night. i get sad that night. >> rose: because? i don't know why. i open the restaurant and i look around, see the people there and i'm sad because it's over. like, i did it. >> rose: yeah. some people also have this attitude about things like that, movies and things. you make a movie, you worked on it, love it, in the editing room and -- if you're a director, you have been on the scene and you're now editing, you've chosen the talent, all that kind of stuff. they feel like, when the movie is in the theater, they're giving it over to the people. they're releasing the movie in a really interesting bay. so it's no longer just me. i'm giving it to you. >> that is true. but also i love, when i open a restaurant, if people really love it. if it hits that note i was shooting for, i figure, you know, i did a good job, so i enjoy that part. the opening night is always a little shaky. >> rose: having known you and having traveled a little bit and

i once had an apartment in paris, i knew about a restaurant there called spring and i knew about a guy named dan rose. dan rose has now come to new york and his restaurant is perhaps the hottest restaurant in new york. i say that only in terms of every list you see, it's either one or two. >> it may be the hottest in the country, actually, i'm happy to say. >> rose: la cou coo coo. >. la coo coo. >> rose: how did that happen? i'm always looking for something different. what am i going to do, another italian restaurant -- and one of the people that work nor me said i want to find a chef, i want to do a french restaurant. i don't want to go to the guys around, i love them, but it won't be new. so he introduced me to a publicist and he told me about

daniel rose she happened to represent in paris. >> rose: when? five years ago? >> four. >> rose: so i've known him long than you. >> yeah, you've known him longer than me. the thing that convinced me of doing this is i watched you interview him. >> rose: he came to the table and convinced you. >> and convinced me. i met him but his spirit is what i liked and i wanted to see how he interacted with you and there was something about him. it's not just the food. there is something about that guy that just hit me. again, i'll go back to my music days. you book a band, nobody knows who they are, but there is something about them, their songs may not be great yet, but they have something. i saw that in him and he's a smart guy and he's a deep thinker and i like that. >> rose: take a look. this is a clip from the interview i did with dan rose x number of years ago. >> it's like we think about, when you're sitting at a table and somebody brings and puts a plate in front of you, there's a certain clarity that can happen

and you look at the food and you see the food and you start to eat the food before you even touch it. >> rose: yeah. and you want to make sure that that's happening because those -- when that happens, it opens up the rest of the evening for other things, for falling in love, for having a conversation, for enjoy ago restaurant, for feeling alive, which is when we go to a restaurant we like, sometimes it's about food, sometimes it's about people enjoying each other's company, sometimes it's about people having business meetings or catching up or -- i mean, everything from birthdays to mourning to all things happen in a restaurant. >> rose: did you desire with him to re-create a different variation of french cuisine here? >> i met with him and said, daniel, what did you want to do? i didn't really want to do spring. i had blumenthal's restaurant

and supposedly its derivative overancient english recipes. i said to daniel, can we do really old recipes? he said yes and pulled out a cookbook and going over this one and that one. he said we could be like a new lou tess. i said, absolutely. so we understood what we wanted to do and he started cooking, he and his wife started making fad for us and it was awesome is tha.>> rose: if you look at the things that made that restaurants and him received as many awards and applauds he and the restaurant received is it because first the food? then what else? >> i'm going to give him all the credit in the world for the food but it's not only the food. it was the design to have the restaurant. we hired roman and williams, robin stanford and her husband

who were brilliant and ervapor the -- ervay for the lighting. it was a perfect magical box we built. talent and skill and something from above that made this thing work. however, one other thing i wanted to say, daniel, we made this to feel like your home. the kitchen was open, had a home feeling, and daniel is like your host, and when he's there and he's often there, he would go out and -- >> rose: i hope so. -- and he would go out and literally spoon the sauces for people. it wasn't because he had to. he literally wanted to, and he wants to cook for people. so the space, the design, the magic, and he who had that notion that eating is not just about food, it's about how it makes you feel. it is what i think just it all clicked. >> rose: you also have elbez. in new york, which is a mexican restaurant in battery

park, yes. >> rose: nothing special or are you excited? >> no, i'm very excited. i'm very happy with el vez, we did it in philadelphia first and took it here. it's a huge success. great food. >> rose: you've won the james beard thing. >> yes. i can quit now. >> rose: no, you can't. there are two questions. one, do you still feel like an outsider or do you think i came, i saw, i conquered? >> you know what? i think i'll always feel like an outsider but i feel like i'm an outsider anyway in general. i always feel like i'm at this party, standing in the corner and watching everyone enjoy it. but i feel like i came, conquered and won and that feels very good. but that doesn't mean i can sit back. i want to continue. it really does take a lot of pressure that i put on myself to win this award. la coo coo won the award for

best new restaurant. >> rose: you got james beard and he got -- >> yes, daniel is so happy about it. i feel like there is less pressure that i put on myself but still wanting to do something new and exciting. >> you're still hungry even though you've won this award. >> i'm hungry but i don't want to keep repeating. i want to do something maybe you would have me on the show to talk about and i still want to do a movie. >> rose: you still want to be a filmmaker? >> i don't know, maybe it's too late, but i would you like to do a movie or come up with a great idea for a television idea and, you know, i started out in this -- in the restaurant business with a comedy club. that was my first thing. it was comedy with food. so i kind of was thinking about that, too, because that was probably one of my favorite things. >> rose: the first night i had dinner at spring in paris, stephen speilberg was there. >> my era. yes.

he came into budacan one night, walked down the stairs and went to a table and i walked to him h. his mother was in the restaurant business. he walked in here and said it was like a movie. that's the best compliment. >> rose: congratulations. thank you very much. hope to see you soon. >> rose: thank you very much. e you next time.ining us. for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us arlierose.com.org and captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

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