good evening from los angeles. so much talk about the fbi, about the birth of the organization, and the murders of the 1920s, at least two dozen, many of the indianination died in a year-long reign of terror. he spent years researching what he calls one of the most sinister crimes in history. the osage murders and the start of the fbi. a conversation with david grand in just a moment.

please welcome david brand from the new yorker magazine. he spent years researching this the killers of the flower moon, and the birth of the fbi, the

film adaptation is already in the works, like, deniro, decap rio, do you confirm or deny those rumors? >> i will not deny. >> you will not have to confirm or deny. for those who have not been following the story about this book, before this thing came out, the bidding war, i am going to embarrass him. the bidding war went over $5 million for the rights to do the film. those name, i mentioned, give you an indication of how big it is expected to be here in hollywood. where david sits here with me today. that must feel good, when you spend that time into, clearly put your heart into. people get it. >> it does. the project took five years,

close to five years, there is a part of it, when you are two and a half years in, if you wonder if anyone will read it or what will become of it. the nice thing about the movie, as many people you can reach with a book about this you can reach a lot more with a movie. >> the story does resonnate. help me understand, am curious about this. this germ of an idea, what did you start to think or know or how did you figure out there was a story here worth telling>> it is interesting, i first heard about the story in 2011. at that time, i had no idea of the indians in oklahoma were the wealthiest people in the world in the 1920s, i had no idea they were misteruously murdered, in one of the worst crime 234s history, and had no idea it was one of the fbi's first homicide cases. it was all new to me.

i was shocked. it seemed like such an important thing. i headed out to the nation, and visited the museum in oklahoma, on the wall, a large pararammic photograph take nen 1924, it showed members of the osage nation, with white settlers, and a photograph wases missing, she said, it contained to she said the delve was standing there, and the book, thafrs the seed that began. that figure was one of the killers of the osage. i kept thinking, here is something that osage removed this picture, not to forget, because they can't forget. how is it possible that such a stinnister crime that explains so much of our history had been excised from our consciousness. >> now we are off and running.

tell me about the osage people. tell me about the tribe. >> the osage are a vibrant nation to this day. back in the 17th century, they controlled much of the central part of the country. thomas jefferson referred to them as the great nation, and actually wet with the osage chief and assured them that united states government would treat them as friends and benefactors, within a few years, began to push them off the land. and they were forced to see a hundred million acres of their incesteral land. confined to land in kansas. they were under siege, there was a massacre, once more, forced to search for a new homeland. it was then, a great osage chief stood up and said, we should move to what was indian

territory, the land is rocky and infertile, the white man considered it worthless, and will leave us alone. resettled with a few thousand left, resettled in northwest oklahoma, the foresaken land was sitting on some of the largest deposits of oil in the united states. >> what prompted jefferson to go back on his word? >> the same averist for land that prompted so many administrations to force the native americans off their land. it was essentially to take the land from the native americans to provide them to white settlers. in oklahoma, many of the tribes were a lotted, in the late 1800s, you could see the land run, white settlelers rushed out on horses or foot, if they can

get to land first, put a stake in t it was a lay claim. the murders became a microcosom that had been playing out for centuries. >> how long before they were in oklahoma and realized they syrup sitting on oil? >> well, yeah. >> you had the beverly hill billies experience. >> the osage tribe was a lotted. the u.s. government forced the native american tribes to turn them into private property owners, when the osage were negotiates, they managed to slip into their agreement a curious provision. they will maintain all subsurface rights to their land. if if they lost the subsurface, they controlled what was

urthneath. this was 1906, they had a hint there was oil on the land, they shrewdly managed to hold on to this part of the land they couldn't see. they became the world's first underground reservation. >> in are retrospect, it was beyond brilliant, you quote, they slipped it into the negotiations. how did the smart white man allow that to happen? >> the osage was lead by one of the greatest chiefs, lead by a man who spoke seven language, latin, french and they had more leverage than other native american tribes, they owned a deed to the d.it was harder for government to force upon them. they purchased the land. they had a deed to it. and they shrewdly and relentlessly negotiated. the whites were in a rush to

make oklahoma a state. they didn't want anything to hold up the process. and they allowed it to slip by them. so, the osage became the wealthiest people per capita in the world, as more oil was discovered. in 1923, only 2000 osage, receive what would be worth today, $400 million. >> i can see where the story is going. >> they pushed the indians around. one, two, three times, get to oklahoma, discover they are sitting on oil. super rich now. the white man ain't too happy? >> no, they are not too happy. to extract that oil, they have to pay royalties, and they have to pay for leases. there was such demand for the oil, they were auctions, so many

oil men we know of today, j.p. getty and his family, made their future drilling for oil in their osage territory. they would attend and gather under this tree, it became known as the million dollar elm treat, the price of the hees was so high. as the osage popularity increased, americans express alarm. you see the forces of prejudices playing out. they were scapegoated for their wealth. here we were in the 1920, time of the great gatsby, somehow, the osage fortune became a topic of discussion. what are we going to do about the american indians with money? they would hold hearing, you can read the transcripts to this

day. what are we going to do? pass legislation, requiring osage to have white guardians, the system was literally racist. it was based on the quantum osage blood. if you were a full-blooded osage, you were deemed incompetent, and granted a given, a white guardian. this guardian, here, you could be a great osage chief, have millions in your trust. you have a white overlord telling you, you can't buy this car, you can get this tooth paste. it creates one of the largest criminal enterprises, the guardians ended up swindling millions. >> all born of legislation. >> it is one thing to get an overseer, over lord, the white man wants the money, control

over you, they want the money. what happens next? >> well, i write in particular about one family. i think it illuminates t molly burkehard and her family, in 19 tworngs she grew up in a lodge, in many ways, straddled two centuries and two civilizations, 1920, she married a young settleler n may of 1921, her older sister disappears. and molly looks everywhere for her. a week later, her body is found in a ravine. shot in the back of the head. it is the first hint that molly's family and the osage tribe are targeted for their money. to give you a sense, within a few days, molly's mother grows sick, she stops breathing, evidence later suggested she was poisoned. molly had a younger sister, rita was terrified of the killings, moved from the country side to be closer to molly and to town.

one night at three clng in the morning, molly hears an explosion, looks out, in the direction of her sister's house all she can see a a large orange ball rising into the sky. someone planted a bomb under the house, killing her sister, her sister's husband and a white maid, who left behind two children. that is just molly's family of the other osage were targeted. shootings, and horrific bombing. >> all the white, as your sub title suggests. we are witnessing the birth of the fbi. overlay hoover and the fbi. >> one of the things that shocked me, is how lawless this country was back then. how fragile our legal

institutions were. the osage, and molly burkehart, begged for justice. a great deal of corruption, in 1923, after 24 osage had been killed, a tribal resolution, known as the bureau investigation, we would later know it as the fbi to come in and investigate. this case falls to the bureau. the bureau was a rag tag operation back then. and badly bungled the case initially. they got an outlaw out of jail, thinking they will use him as an informant. he robs a bank and kills a police officer. and j. edgar hoover is worried about his power. he is worried about his security. and he eventually recruits and

brings in an old field agent, tom white, to take over the case, they launch an undercover operation. what is most interesting, among those undercover operatives is a native american. they need to adopt the criminal techniqu techniques, fingerprinting, handwriting analysis. >> how successful was hoover? >> the agents, tom white, they deserve more of the credit than hoover. they are able to, by finding the money to catch one of the masterminds and some of his henchman. it turned out to be, not only a prominent white settler, it turned out to be someone that molly knew well and trusted. what makes the crime sinister,

they involve an unbelievable level of deception and portrayal. white men pretending to love you, and meanwhile, plotting to kill you. while the bureau captures a few killers, there was a deeper and darker conspiracy. hoover was in a rush to solve the case, those crimes were never solved. the money was never recovered. one of the most powerful things, i spent a lot of where the osage murders is. i tracked down molly burkehart's granddaughter, they tell you what it was like to grow up without family members. a lot of the osage, because the crimes remain unsolved. spent years and decades to

decide who the perpetrators were. and one of the nefarruous elements of the emp crime system that because this was a cover up. this really was a story, not about a single perpetrator. it was about the evil lurking in the white men and women. there were morticians that covered up the murders, law men on the take, politicians, on the take. direct compliceant. in many of these cases, they denied the victims their history, to be able to tell exactly what happened. they covered up the trails of evidence. >> going back to the first visit you made to the osage

-- museum in oklahoma. did you see anything about celebrating that nation was here, or was it more in memoriam? >> there was little on the murders when i was there. this photograph was there and cut out. the osage are a vibrant nation to this day. 20,000 voting members. they have taken precautions to try to stop conspiracies. they have their own court system. one told me, we were victims of these crimes, we don't live as victims. >> that is how they process it. >> they are haunted by the so many of us nefleblthed the krimts, lived with them

intimately. it reverberates to this day. they are a nation that has endured despite these crimes. >> i was in a conversation with some black folks, sitting around having dinner, the tv was on, there was you know, one of these teasers for a story coming up after the break. somebody made the xhernths as i have said, every black person has done. you say, i hope it ain't a negro. i hope this is not a black person. whether it is right, just, fair, you feel that burden. you don't want this to be done at the hands of another black person. i say that to ask as a white man, how did you process, searching and righting what you

had to write about it. how did you process it, what they did to the osage? >> you know, i think like a lot of journists, are known as -- i am naive when i begin a story. in a sense, i am not an expert when i begin. this was all new to me. before i saw that photograph in the museum, i didn't know about this history. i have done a lot of crime stories, i was disturbed in a way about this, in a way more than anything else i ever korveed. got to the question, it is easier to think of this case as a singular evil.

if the law comes in and removes that evil, everything goes back to normal. so many white citizens were talking about common society. complicet in these crimes. that was something that shook me. i will be honest with you. in the telling, you feel a burden in telling t but in recking with it. and when people ask me why i did not book. one of the reasons i did want book was to address my own ignorance. >> you know the answer to the question? >> you know the answer. >> well, yes. that the stories have been marginalized due to prejudices. >> yes, for me. i think this is an important part. i don't think we can understand

our current life and world, if you don't understand this. i don't think, first of all, this was the 1920s, we are not talking about the colonial era we are talking about less than a century oolg, when the crimes took played. i introduced chris, who fought in afghanistan in the army. he walked from oklahoma, all the way to north dakota. he hitched a ride. he told me during that quest, he thought about the osage murders. we aren't getting money from oil. he said it was the same fundamental issue, the rights of native american nations to protect their land, to protect their sovereignty, and protect the fate of their resources. i think one story, gets to the

question. molly burkehart. i found an archive, two years before she died. it was an appeal by her. she was finely allowed to control her money, her dest nee, her fate that she was granted the rights of an american citizen. i think that again, that is recent. two years before she died, the court deemed her competent. a former osage chief told me, there has been talking about trying to private vise and break up reservations today. there is talk by the trump

administration to do this. they want to get this land. i can't believe it is 2017, we are still having this fight. unless we reckon with this history, we can't understand the country we live in today. >> that is exactly where i was going to go. i think it is important for fellow citizens, who poo poo this. there is a history here. you have to understand how they have been maligned from the beginning. to understand why they do not want to be trampled on yet again. i was going to say, the flip side, david, of bearing that burden as a white man, that you spoke of, writing this book. 9 flip side of that if the truth isn't told, then it is rendered

invisible. when the truth is invisible, someone has to tell the truth. we owe you a debt of gratitude. can't wait to see it on the big screen. it is called killers of the flower moon. osage, and the fbi. another movie out. >> velocity z., also his project, in theaters as we speak. david, congratulations, good to have you on the program. >> my pleasure. >> that is our show for tonight. as always, keep the faith. >> i am tavis smiley, join me for a conversation with kareem

abdul-jabbar, and john wooten. next time, see you then.

>> tavis: good evening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley, as the situation rocks our country, tonight, we'll have a conversation with the nobel prize winning economist. and with more on the great divide, and rerouting the rules of economy. and bill moyer discusses his documentary, called "an american jail" joseph steiglitz and bill moyer in just a moment.