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♪ and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ ♪ please welcome senator al franken to this program. before entering politics he was an award writing comedy writer. you can now read about his unlikely journey into politics in his new memoir, al franken giant of the senate. i love that.

he joins us live from new york. good to have you on the program. >> great to be here. thanks for loving that. >> let me start with this. you were an entertainer before you got into politics. it's not lost on me that donald trump was an entertainer of sorts before he got into politics. you have made the transition to being taken seriously. can donald trump do that? >> i don't know. you know, we took different approaches. i thought that i had to sort of prove something because i had not served in public office before and i made it a point to read as much as i could and learn about policy and he seems to have taken the opposite approach saying things like no one knew that health care was complicat complicated until i just realized it. so it's a completely different approach. won. he's president. i mean, so i guess that was a

success for him. not so much for the country as far as i can see on so many different scores. >> you may have just answered this, senator, but if you were giving advice to donald trump about how to be taken seriously, again because you've made that leap, beyond reading and studying as you've just mentioned, is there something else you're suggesting -- because again neither of you had been politics before you got into it. >> well, there's so much in his approach. the people he surrounds himself with. i try to surround myself with people with experience who had some -- who i knew their character. people had integrity. i don't know where to start with donald trump, frankly. you know, every once in a while

he makes a correction, i guess, when they got rid of michael flynn and general mcmaster came in, that was an improvement. it would be nice if he traded up in a lot of areas in that way. but, you know, i have had a learning curve myself. and what i did was i became a workhorse and not a show horse. and that's how i learned the senate and i tried to become friends with members of the republican party and reach across party lines. i'm a progressive democrat and they know it. but there are other -- there are places that you can find some kind of common ground and try to do that. i don't think donald trump would listen to my advice if i had sound advice for him. >> what was the steepest part of your learning curve?

>> boy, that's a good question. i think part of it was just i had a career in which i learned how to be funny, and then i had to learn how not to be funny. and that was -- and so -- i had some parallel experiences. during the campaign, the other side republicans took everything i had ever written or said and put it through the $1500 machine called the dehumorizer. it took out every bit of irony and hyperbole and context and made it into something that wasn't funny and then used it against me. and then once i got in office and during the campaign my team started putting me through the

dehumorizer because i had to prove to the people of minnesota that i was serious. one of the hardest things i had to learn -- and i write about this in the book. there's a point in the health committee where we're having a hearing on the employment nondiscrimination act which says that you have to hire lgbt people, employees. you can't not hire them because they're lgbt but you can't fire them. and then 30 states now in the country, you can get married, an lgbt couple can get married on a saturday and get fired -- someone get fired on a monday because their employer -- you're gay. you're out of here. and so we were having a hearing on that and not one republican showed up for the hearing. and i had never seen that. not even the ranking member showed up. this is on the health education labor and pension committee. so i thought of saying i think it's a shame that none of the gay members of the committee

showed up. and i thought that would get -- the devil on my shoulder went do it. you'll get a huge laugh because it was mainly lgbt activists in the hearing room as the audience. and the angel said, now, al, you know why you came here and that's not going to be helpful. and i was struggling and then the angel and the devil each got an angel and a devil. and the angel's devil and the devil's angel talked to each other and did some great staff work. and i didn't tell the joke then. but i got to write a book. >> there are two things to come to mind as i listen to you tell that story, in no particular order. one, i have always believed in my line of work and indeed quite frankly in the u.s. senate, for that mat ner the white house -- and you know this better than anybody. the you can get folks to laugh,

you the get them to listen. number one. i believe that. and number two i also belief that humor can be used as a rhetorical weapon. haven't you learned both of those things over and over again in your time in the senate? >> yep. i have. my colleagues -- now i come in and i use humor in books i had written to heap score and ridicule on some of my republican colleagues, or on republicans in general. but when i got there they started to get to know me and they went oh, i get it. he's funny. jim damint on the first day, at the time now, at the heritage foundation came up to me after i got sworn in and said how are things on the far left. i said they're great. how are things on in the nut case right. and he laughed. we had a good relationship, just giving each other crap.

but it was a relationship. and my republican colleagues said oh, i see, he became a comedian because he likes to laugh. i laugh a lot myself. it really does help. and the senate is a town of 100 people and you have to make some kind of collegial relationship. and humor is -- there's a reason i went into comedy. and humor is a way i forge relationships sometimes. >> you mentioned earlier in this conversation that donald trump is the president and you're right about that. one could debate given what the rugss m russians may or may not have done and if he won it fairly and squarely. but he is the president. i've thinking about a couple of books that you've written before this one. one or two books with the word liar in it. and it seems to me that what

troubles you both about donald trump is not his antics, not that he won the election but that he lies with impunities. is that an overstatement? >> well, i have trouble that he won. >> yeah. >> i wish he wasn't our president. but yes, i kind of -- it's almost, if you think about it, about 15 on 20 years ago i wrote books about lying. republicans lying or conservatives lying. and it's almost adorable that you could make money exposing the people, that politicians lie. and now he just lies, it's just day in day out and not paying a price for it. well maybe he is beginning to pay a price. i don't know. but i still, i have a global jihad on lies and hope maybe

this period will end and we'll have a new era of neosticklerism and we'll have some stick neler out there. but this is very troublesome. and he labelling all news fake news is a huge problem. and the fake news was what the russians did during the election. they had 1,000 trolls in russian putting out fake stories that were picked up on facebook about hillary. and this had an enormous effect on the election. and but now we're seeing his, his people, the trump people, people in the trump organization who did not disclose meetings with russians, we see that over and over again. they're not acting like people who have nothing to hide. so fortunately we have a special

prosecutor and we have two committee intelligence committees in the house and the senate investigating this and we will get to the truth on that. in the meantime, we have all kinds of effects from his being president, including obviously on health care, on civil rights. article today in the "the new york times" about jeff sessions and the justice department getting rid of the civil rights prosecution, cutting funding for that. very very troublesome things that is my job to address right now. these investigations will take some time. but right now we have some very serious things to address. >> i should mention, your constituents in minnesota know you voted against jeff sessions,

against betsy devos. your record is clear on that. you mentioned a moment ago there are members of the trump organization, not just members of the organization or member of the amount, it's members of his family. what do you make of the stories of late about his son-in-law jared kushner and isn't this the reason why so many of us are were saying up front you don't need to have your daughter and son-in-law working in the white house? >> yeah. he seems to be one of the people that hasn't disclosed meetings that he had with russians. the latest event that we heard about him trying to use russian communications to have a channel to putin or -- basically to putin but using communications that our intelligence at least kushner thought our intelligence couldn't hear, that's very troubling. again we'll get to the bottom of

this. but at some point, you know, we may get to the question, what did the president know and when did his son-in-law tell him. >> yeah. you said three times by my count that we'll get to the bottom of this. for those fellow citizens who don't believe that we ever will get to the bottom of this, that washington just has a way of circling the wagons, that we may never know what really happened here, that robert mueller with all due respect doesn't have enough power as special prosecutor. how do you respond to the fellow citizens who think that we'll never get to the real bottom of what happened here truly? >> bob mueller is a man that everybody in washington respects. you're right that the special prosecutor law that cousin changed after the experience withth bill clinton and weakene slightly i believe still gives him enough power.

and the limits on him would have to be exercised in a way that i think would cause incredible outrage throughout the country. but i don't want to get ahead of ourselves. we have to, we have to get to the bottom of things. i think we can. i think we have to make sure that we know what happens before jumping to any conclusions. that's the way we are supposed to do things in this country. >> there are a number of persons that i can name who either went to the senate or went to the house, i think of fred thompson of tennessee, i think of -- what was the guy, gopher on the love boat, fred grandy who went to the house, i think of arnold schwarzenegger. all of these persons went back into entertaient. are you in politics to stay or will the day come when we'll see

you back on "snl" telling jokes again? >> well i hope to live a long time. so i don't know. i can't tell you exactly. i plan to run for election, if that's what you mean. unless a really good part on a sitcom becomes available. >> and then you'll reconsider? >> i'm planning to stay in politics for now. but you know, george burns, you know, worked until he was 100 and i don't know. i don't want to be senator until i'm 100. i know that. and i want to -- you know, i don't know if retirement is all that great of a thing. >> it seems like -- >> maybe. i don't know. >> it seems like the folk in your home state, you won that election by 300 votes and it was like an 8-month investigation

into who voted where. >> a recount. >> yeah. not investigation but recount. and the second time around you walked away with that thing pretty handedly. maybe they'll keep you around in minnesota for a while. >> i hope so. you know, i think they got to see that i was a serious workhorse and now, you know, because i won by a comfortable margin i can be a workhorse with a sense of humor. >> there you go. >> i guess. >> al franken's book is called "giant of the senate." >> "al franken giants of the senate". >> excuse me, "al frank en gian of the senate". >> thank you. great to be on. up next, remembrances of gregg allman and frank deford, guests on this program.

♪ ♪ over the weekend we lost two legend, gregg allman, cofounder of the allman brothers. and frank deford. i'm honored to have both men on this program. gregg allman overcame family tragedy, drug problems and health problems to become an elder statesman for the music that he loved. back in 2012 he discussed his induction in the hall of fame and the moment he quit drugs and alcohol for good. he passed away at the age of 69. i assume you had to have known you made it when you were inducted in the rock and roll hall of fame. >> oh yes. >> you knew you had made it then. >> that was such a good night. i saw playback of it the next day and i quit everything that

day. >> the drugs, you mean? >> drugs, alcohol, smoking cigarettes, snorting anything. everything. >> so all that you've been through in your life and career, all the ups, all of the downs, all of the challenges, you end up seeing one playback. clearly you had seen yourself in playback countless times. so why that particular playback after the induction in the rock and roll hall of fame as the impetus for you to get sober and clean? >> well, that is like going to see the grand wizard of oz and him knighting you or something. in my world hall of fame, i mean, god. and we got in it so early seemingly, you know. but they had just built it, you know.

so fate would have it that we get in, you know. the stipulation is you have to have a record out for 25 years. and i think you have to have it -- it has to be a hit, too. >> that always helps. >> yeah. >> and so i just, i thought, man, if you can't snap out of it for this, we need to go home and talk. and this time i went to the rehab which was rehab at the allman's house. i hired a male nurse to come in there and give me whatever i needed intravenously. i walked around with a little pole. i think it was two weeks. i vaguely remember it. alls iemember is i didn't feel good, worth a damn. and right at first it was rea d

ug rugged. i wanted a cigarette real bad. all that. coming off of all of that, i wanted a damn cigarette. those things are just -- i'm so glad i'm not chained to those things anymore. >> let me ask gregg allman what his sense is. what's your sense of the allman brother's contribution to music. what do you think of the play li list that you all have given the world? >> well, i think we came on a whole different genre of music, only it was the stuff that we were just always, always playing. we always played -- we usually played black music. and i guess it just molded into

a thing. >> you still out gigging after all of these years? >> i love it. >> yeah? >> yeah. frank deford was one of the most beloved sports writers of all i'm. during a visit to this program he discussed while athletes hold an elevated place in society and why he believed sports upholds democracy. frank deford passed away sunday at the age of 78. what is it about sport that elevates and inflates these guys to a level that is higher than teachers, higher than physicians who are saving lives. you take the point. >> well, first of all, it's not the united states so it's got to be part of the human condition. it's the same all over the world. they're glamorous. they're beautiful. what they can do. we all admire them. and i think the fact, tavis, is we all play games when we're young. so in other words we want to be them at some point in our lives.

and so that we admire them even more. i don't think there are many kids who sit around and want to be actors. i don't think there are many kids who want to sit around and be senators. be so many of us want to be athletes. so we're really envious of them. put them up on the pedestal. >> what's the value of sport to date our lives. i ask that with the backdrop of a great judge who once said -- maybe earl warren who said i read the sports pages first because it tells me of a man's accomplishments. these days you see the men getting in trouble. what is the difference day than back in the day when you first started covering these guys. >> sport is good because it's healthy.we're talking more abou celebrity. i think at its best sport does bring us together. i'm not thinking that's the end

of the world and that's going to cure all of our problems. but you go to a ball game and you sit next to somebody and you may have nothing whatsoever in common with that guy expect all of the sudden there's a shared experience. and i think we have enough trouble finding community in this country and sport does provide that. and it is a immediate yok kmedi. i suppose it upholds democracy and the best in it. >> that's our show for tonight. good night from los angeles. thanks for watching. and as always, keep the faith.

for more information on today's show, visit tavis smally at pbs.org. hi, ie tavis smiley joining any for a conversation about melissa leo about a role in showtime's new series "i'm dying up here." that's next time. we'll see you then. ♪ ♪ and my contribution to your

pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ be more, pbs. >> be more, pbs. ♪ ♪

good evening from los angeles i am tarris smiley, first a conversation with brad stone. athor. it examines the way uber, are changing the world. it is called freedom highway, the project builds a lyrical bridge from our country to slavery, to the sounds of today. we are glad you joined us. brad stone, andriana