good evening from los angeles. i am tavis smiley. tonight, a conversation with the 2016 national book award winner. it traces the art of anti-black racist ideas to the founding of the united states. arguing we must confront this history in order to grapple with racism and the hold on america. we are glad joined us professor kennedy coming up in just a moment. [ music ]

[ music ] >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. [ music ] kennedy is the author of the national book award winner stamped from the beginning. the definitive history of racist ideas in america. congratulations on the book award. it is an honor to have you here.>> it is an honor to be here.>> i asked you if you

would not mind opening up our program by reading the first couple of paragraphs. i think it gives us a sense of what is inside the historian's head as they are confronting the history they have to write. i think it will set up this conversation rather nicely. >> sure. this is the beginning of the prologue. every historian writes in and is impacted by a historical moment. this both moment coincides with the televised in a televised killing of unarmed human beings and a hint of law enforcement officials and the televised and un-televised life of the shooting star black lives matter during america's strongest nights. i somehow managed to write this book between the heartbreaks of

trade on martin, boyd, michael brown, freddie gray, the charleston nine, and sandra plan. as much is this history book of racist ideas is a product of these heartbreaks. young black males are 21 times more likely to be killed by police than their white counterparts between 210 and 2012. the recording and under analyzed racial disparities between female victims with police force maybe even greater. the immediate wealth of white households is a staggering 13 times the immediate wealth of black households. black people five times more likely to be incarcerated than

whites. these statistics should come as no surprise. >> staff should come as no surprise. how is it that even if one does not understand or does not research the staff the way you did that we somehow seem collectively oblivious to the history, the sad history we are writing in this presidentã present moment? >> most american know the statistics. they know these disparities. either there is something wrong and inferior about black people or there is racial discrimination. because so many americans refuse to acknowledge the persisting for legacy and

during, let's of racial discrimination, they say there is something wrong or inferior about black people. what you say to those persons who hold that first idea in their head? >> i think it is unfortunate, you know, because they should realize that it is simply not true. the racial groups are equal. the most brilliant minds in western europe has spent hundreds of years trying to prove that black people are inferior, that there is something wrong with black people. they have yet to basically achieve that. at some point, we have to realize that the racial groups are equal.

>> when books are written by these brilliant thinkers like charles murray, what is it that these books if those ideas are so preposterous, end up on the bestseller list? >> date present their statistics. typically, there statistics are misleading. they measure black people from subjective standards. because, a lot of those suggestions we commonly believe in, it appears that they are presenting truth. it appeared that what they were saying was truthful, because they had the backing of science, god, nature, or logic.>> before i go inside the text stamped from the beginning, how do you respond to those persons who think that all

these centuries later, we should not even be wasting time ? it is a subject that we should have long ago stopped talking about.>> well, i think the idea that we are living in a post-racial society is really indicative of every single racist idea that has ever been created. an idea that suggests that racial discrimination is not the cause of the black condition. it is black people themselves and their inferiority. it is not surprising that people are still creating post-racial ideas that are trying to point our direction away from racial policies and racial discrimination. i chronicle not just the history of racial progress that obama and many others have spoken about in recent years, but the simultaneous progression of racism. american history has had both

happening simultaneously. with black people bring barriers, new barriers are created to hold them back. >> give me an example of what you mean? >> we know that 13th amendment abolished slavery, but then, it did not abolish slavery in the prison. we know about the system that emerged in which basically the law in the jail cell replaced the master and the whip. >> to those who say that is a horrible example, because those black persons would not be behind bars but for the choices they have made. >> that is not racism, that is bad behavior. people say incarceration rates are reflective of actual crime rates. our jails are for people who committed drug offenses.

but then, we also have studies that show that the racial groups consume and sell drugs at a similar race. you have black and brown people in prison for drug crimes even though the actual crime rate when it comes to drug crimes are very similar between the races. that says to me that it is racial discrimination within the criminal justice. >> who are the culprits? >> i think that was sort of one of the major findings in the text. the people who are creating the racist ideas were ignorant and hateful i think that is what many people have come to believe in that these ignorant and hateful people created these racist ideas and they are the ones instituted racist policies

like slavery, jim crow segregation, or even massa corporation. i specifically analyze and contextualize the motor behind why they were producing these ideas. i found that it wasn't that these people were a direct and hateful, often times they were defending and rationalizing existing racial disparities that came about as a result of existing racist policies. typically, they were created out of political or cultural self interests. it has been people who have produced and benefited from racist policies. they created racist ideas to get us to basically blame black people for the racial disparities that came about as

a result as opposed to them in their policies, which would allow them to continue.>> i am thinking of the great writer james baldwin. baldwin advanced the notion that when people don't want to do with their own hurt for their own pain, that terms to hate. how much of these racist ideas continue to be advanced in our society today have to do with that hurt and with that pain that has turned into hate because they can't deal with the former -- they engage the latter. does that make sense? >> it is racist ideas that are producing the ignorance and hate. so to give an example, if you have been led to believe that you are not advancing what your

job because of so-called illegal immigrants and black people, and you want to provide for your family, who are you going to end up hating and blaming. you are going to ignorantly play black people. if you have been led to believe that you are not advancing in your corporate office because of affirmative action, who are you going to blame store you are not going to blame the policy that are holding you back. you are going to blame black people. you are going to get angry at people. >> did you see racist ideas employed in this campaign for the white house? [ laughter ] >> i thought it probably the most incredibly racist idea that i heard from the president

elect. it was this idea that black people living hell. i don't know if you remember. i think it was at one of the debates. >> i couldn't forget, because he said it was at one time. [ laughter ] >> i grew up in jamaica queens, and inner-city black neighborhood. i don't remember living in hell. of course, there was violence, but only in its literal sense, but even in figurative sense, black people have long been related to the devil. black people have long been classified into their color and evil, so even from the religious standpoint, it was deeply damning of black lines. >> to the book, stamped from

the beginning, tell me how you came up with his title. >> in 1860, a mississippi senator became the president of the confederacy opposed a bill on the senate floor that would provide education for black people in washington dc. in his opposition to , he stated that this nation was created by white men for white men, not white women, but by white men for white men. the inequality was stamped from the beginning. even more incredibly, he then went on to prove it. do you know the story of cain and abel? according to jefferson davis's rendition, kane goes to the land of nod, and in this land of nod are the beatings that

god created before white adam and eve. included in those beings were not only animals but black people. >> let me these were just a second. that is fascinating history. tell me why this definitive history back to jefferson davis matters today. for the person watching who does not get the link, why does that matter now? >> i think right now in this moment, in which people are trying to understand how the president could get elected, the people are searching for answers. i think people are searching for answers as to why so many police officers are fearing people don't even have weapon,

and even people who have weapons but are not sure of shooting. what it is that juries are exonerating these people. why black people are feeling progress. white did you receive the type of reception from a large segment of congress let alone america that he did. i think people are searching for those answers. oftentimes, answers can be found in history. i think one of the ways in which i hope the book makes a contribution is it says to people that our senses that racist ideas were a racist person is simply a person who says the and word, it is actually a lot more complex than that. many people,

including well-meaning people, has articulated racist ideas, have defended racist policies, and we truly want to create antiracist america, it is important for all of us to come to grips with the ideas we have consumed over our lifetime. >> how do you get them to re- examine their own assumptions? how do you help them in this text expand their inventory of ideas about what racist ideas are? >> it makes perfect sense. we defined their ideas as racist. that is one of the major contributions of the book. >> doesn't that shut down the conversation sometime at the

very beginning? that is a racist idea. >> i say as a black male who has three degrees in african- american studies and born and raised in blackcomb, i even had consumed racist ideas about black people. that is how powerful these ideas are. if i can admit it in college the ideas that i canceled, anybody should be willing to do it. so, i classify them as assimilationist in stamped in the beginning. so, typically, segregation is are the people who stated that black people are biweekly --

biologically inferior. they are typically in these types of books on history of racism. assimilationist are somewhat different. they argued that yes, we are all created equal. then, they say black people have become inferior as it result of environment. simulation is they black people are inferior by nurture. that nurture includes became inferior as a result of slavery. slavery just was not dehumanizing, it literally made black people subhuman. if we just take them out of the wilds of africa, we will be able to civilize and develop them and make them equal one day. these ideas still suggest that

black people are inferior. it argues against segregation that black people are currently inferior, but they say black people are inferior nonetheless. >> you hit on something deep. i can do this for two or three nights. i don't have enough time in one show, i promise. [ laughter ] what is the message in this text for those persons like you once were and like i once was and like others who may still be who have bought into those notions of white supremacy? that is how insidious it is. black people themselves into thinking also that) in our own dna. what is the message for us in

stamped from the beginning #i studied nearly 600 years of ideas that suggested that there was something wrong or inferior about black people. from the koreans -- origins, and i have yet to come a single theory that can hold up under the weight of a scientific or objective truth. all of these theories are false. i did find one thing that is actually wrong with black people. we think something is wrong with black people. that is it. that is the only thing wrong with black people. we think something is wrong with black people. the extraordinary about white people is that they think something is extraordinary about white people.>> what we do to read black people think less

of themselves? >> what i try to do, because stamped from the beginning is a book from everyone. they can learn some of the things they have been taught. i think for us to provide them with the statistics. and for them to believe the truth of scientific data. even the idea that we often talk about. i truly believed that black neighborhoods are more dangerous. i would argue that the most dangerous racist idea. we know there is a direct correlation between violent crime rates and unemployment rate across racial groups. what that means to me as an intellectual is that there is really no such thing as a dangerous black neighborhood, because there is no correlation

between blackness and violent crimes. there is a subsidy as a dangerous unemployed neighborhood. we can think of the neighborhood not as black neighborhoods, but as unemployed neighborhoods. it's not about all of these other things, we can pipeline with jobs. there are other ideas that i had to come to realize through researching for this book. you know, that can pick up another show. that is one of the most prominent ones. the lack would you say that is the most affected, white supremacy? >> yes. the more i chronicle this book, the more i realized that racist ideas were principally created for black people and or black

lives. the function of racist ideas ultimately is to compel people to not resist racial discrimination. again, going back to that sort of scenario, if you have a racial disparity in either because there is "black people where there is racial discrimination. you are going to fight against other black people as opposed to fighting against racial formation. if you have been led to believe that you should be enslaved because you are black, you will never run away. i think these ideas have really targeted black minds together not resist racial discrimination.

i think they have been somewhat effective. >> if we are so all of that, why are we so susceptible to believing that there is something wrong with us? i think because of these ideas usually are so powerful and they are so pervasive. they seem so logical. it is almost like it is sort of swirling around here. antiracist idededeare extremely complex. it doesn't even make sense sometimes people. if you have been fed something over and over again from birth even sometimes from your own parents, it is hard for you to think. it takes many of us a lifetime. over the course of his life, he

was able to realize that the idea that he had learned in new england i think it took the boys for a while. what would help you figure it out more quickly is to read this book. it is the winner of the 2016 national book award for nonfiction. it is called stamped from the beginning. professor kennedy, i am so proud of you. i am extremely proud of you and so glad you came to see us. congratulations, myford. good night from la, and as always, keep

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