. good evening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley. wall street posted record highs again this month, and tax cuts for the rich are being pushed alongside healthcare cuts for the poor and the middle class. with the ongoing issues of inequality. so tonight, chicago professor david schweickart encourages to us have a conversation about alternatives to capitalism. then actress jenny slate gets nis to gig about her new film "landline". we're glad you joined us. all of that coming up right now.

♪ ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station, from viewers like you. thank you. please welcome david schweickart to this program, the fa loss fer and mathematician. he proet wrote the similar text "after capitalism" and has been teaching students about democracy for over 40 years now i'm honored to slim on this program. thanks for your time, sir. >> my pleasure to be here. >> let me jump with this the. text that you wrote prior to

this was called "against capitalism" and then comes the following book "after capitalism". the against e "against capitalism" i understand but when i saw this one dint know where you were going with that this. that title means what exactly? >> a little background of that even. as you say i started out my career as a mathematician, taught for a year at the university of kentucky and then kent state happened hand this kind of conversion, i don't want to teach math, you know, way don't something more meaningful with my life, i'm just teaching engineers are going to do the military industrial complex route and so on. and in between i red marks. and ways just really stunned by this. >> i read it as a mathematician, worked through every equation, worked through the foot notes and you will notice the cover of this book actually i don't identify it anywhere but that's the influence. but what marks did for me was convince me that there's something wrong with capitalism. i never thought about that before thepy knew other things were wrong. but the problem was, what's the

alternative. >> right. >> marks doesn't tell you, and that becomes my research project, you know. and i developed that early on in a book called "capitalism worker control" but it was clear we needed a vision of an alternative. marks didn't slifs don't fault him for that, there weren't any other alt it thattives out there, no data but 150 years later we've got to know what the alternative would be. and the soviet union didn't look very attractive. so another form of socialism, not that. so i wrote this one book and then comes the collapse of the soviet union and everyone's saying end of history, there is no alternative, so on. i wrote against capitalism as i dee fient response to that pat it was like there san alt naritive. we may not have the power to ever get there, but don't stla isn't an alternative. it would work and be viable and better than what we've got now. and then everything seemed calm for a period of time, end of history, and then the

antiglobalization movement took place, the beat of seattle in nine 99. it's like whoa, wait a minute, things are happening again. and that's where the title changed to "after capitalism" it went went to a more general public but there is something beyond, and there is a movement developing that may be able to take tlus. >> to those who say that "after capitalism" is presumptive, you say what? >> well, i say first of all the existing order is not sustainable, you know, there's going to be something after what we've got now. the question is, is it going to be something a lot better than we've got now or something a lot worse than we've got now? so, and it's important to me, there is a movement, more and more people now the present order isn't working, you know, the long-term prospects of really terrifying in many ways, okay. is there an alternative? and i think we need a vision. in fact, ny opalmy klein who's been on this show, her argument

no is not enough is what resinates. you've got to have a vision of something that would work and would be better. and that's the project, is to lay out a model of something that would work, it could be efficient, it would preserve some of the strengths of capitalism, because capitalism has major strengths, but without all the negatives. >> and that's been the project. >> i was looking at a house the other day and the house needs some work. >> i said to my realtor the house has some good bones, it's got good bones. so what are the good benz of capitalism before we come to the negatives? >> well, the good bones have been huge amount of, you know, innovation, technological splent that's taken place, okay, and the discovery of this mechanism and it's interesting provocative on the socialist end on the market, the invisible hand. having competition and that that actually encourages enterprises to be efficient and to search for innovative things and so on and so forth. and the model of economic

democracy wants to preserve that, that isn't the fundamental problem, this competition versus cooperation. we've got get a better balance, but preserve that, okay, and do some fundamental changes that at one level are very dramatic, another level it's not going to change much right away, you won't maybe not notice it but it's huge. and it can solve the massive problems that we have. >> and the negatives? >> the negatives of capitalism, massive inequality, it's now getting worse and worse and worse, you know, and they've built into the fact you've got capital, return on the capital and it just generates more and more money. you don't have to work, your heirs can yet it, that kind of thing. you've ghot positiverty in the t of plenty. back in the '70s when i first started working on this it wasn't long after president johnson had declared war on positive vert at this time. we're the richest country in the world we shouldn't have poverty anymore, not in the inner cities, nobody even talks

anymore about eliminating poverty. then you get this paira dox of unemployment. you've got all these unemployed people. and almost everyone that has a job is working longer than they wish they were work the so why don't we have a system that says let's spread the work around, give people more leisure time, we didn't get that. there's no motivation under capitalism to do that. and the big one is this need to keep growing against the environmental constraints, against the issue, it's just imcompatible with really dealing with climate change, these kind of issues. it can't do that. >> so gored dpon gekco, make that michael douglas. >> yeah. >> infamously said in wall street that greed is good. how do you ever balance these issues that concern you so long as there is this thing called greed that drives so much of capitalism? >> well, i mean, that's why i think we can have an economic system that still has competition, but it's not greed

driven that way. so, for example, you know, the basic structure, one of the things we're going to have are democratic workplace, okay. now democratic workplaces compete with each other, it's still a market so on and so forth, but you don't have a desire to drive your other -- the other company out of business. now, individuals may be greedy, but the whole system isn't based on that, you know. in fact, in a democratic enterprise, everyone's well-being is tied to the company doing well, okay. so what's good sfour good ffor people working for you and so you get a sense of cooperation. >> how do you -- how do you have a dynamic conversation, authentic conversation about fixing what's wrong with capitalism when you can't have a real conversation about raising the minimum wage? i mean it fight for $15 has certainly gained ground and traction across the country, but

it's happened very slowly, city by city by city. we can't seem to get traction on a real national conversation about raising the minimum wage across this country. so if you can't do that, raise the minimum wage, how you can have a real conversation about the alternatives to capital lichlt. >> well, as i say, when it becomes clearer and clearer that the problems through the have not been resolved and they're going to get worse and lurking in the not too distant future is an economic crisis because we did not solve the problems below, which we really had something like that since the great depression in situat2008,e gradual spreading realization that we need a fundamental change. and that, my sense is, you know, consciouses can change, political climate can change very rapidly. i mean, having grown up in the '60s and '70s and see how formost of that period the country was behind the war in

vietnam, we have to stop the communists, and then it didn't take much. kent state was a triggering thing and suddenly whoa, majority opinion has shifted the other wear. so, i mean, i think my sense is -- because there's a lot going on bea beneath the surface. that was true then, that was true of the civil rights movement long before martin luther king and the big -- the things were getting all the coverage and so on, there were people on the groundworking and the struggling and so on and so forth. that's going on now. millions of people are actually out there involved in things. >> let me play devil's advocate. >> i hear your pint about the vietnam war and so i'm wrestling and doodling with what kind of push bark i can gi pushback i can given you for the sake of argument and the best thing i can come up with is this. that it's hard to imagine alternatives to capitalism, and it's hard to imagine a serious conversation interwhat's wrong with capitalism so long as the

folks who are responsible for make those changes in washington are there because they are propped up by the powers that be. >> right. >> so whether you're democrat or republican, they all get their money, more often than not from, from the same places. it's the same problem hillary clinton had. it's hard to fell for one thing when you talk about goldman sachs taking money but my point if all of you were there because the money rules everything in washington, then who are you looking to to address the issue? >> that's a big debate going on now is the people's summit. >> sure. >> a couple weeks ago and that was one of the issues. how do we change the democratic party or do we go outside democratic party. everyone knows we've got start now working at the grass roots level getting political power. >> i mean, and, you know, the people already did it with the republicans, you know, why not have something like that on the left that gets a genuine alternative. because a lot of things that trump was saying appealing to people were right. i mean, the system is broken. these trade deals weren't any

any good, that sort of thing. if you have a vision of what's wrong, an alt fer thattive out there, when nigh naomi klein says no is not enough, she's right about that. i think it can be laid out. we need democratic workplaces, we need to get rid of wall street and have public banking. there's bane lot of research done on all of these sorts of things, they work, i can say more about them, but, you know, it's a system that would still be dynamic, you know, but wouldn't, i constant increasing consumption, constant growth and so on and so forth, would give people more leisure, more democratic control over their lives, more ability do the long-term planning they were going to have to do if we're going deal well climate change. it's doable. >> naomi klein last week did say on this program that no was not enough and this week professor schweickart says there's also something "after capitalism" that's the tightful

his text. again, the book "after capitalism". professor, good to have you on. thank you for sharing your ib sight sir. up next jenny slate on the film "landline". stay with us. force . please to welcome jenny slate to this program, she started as dana jacobs in the new family comedy "landline" which is said 70 in the mid-1990s. you can also recognize this distinctive voice from two animated hits, dispick cable me 3 and the lego batman movie. now a clip from "landline". [ screaming ]. >> what are you doing here? >> what are you doing here? >> i asked you first. >> i'm jed. >> you cannot tell mom i'm here, please. >> no, obviously i'm going to

tell mom that you were here. god, you're like a at that time he will tail. >> actually, i'm an adilt who was coming for a quiet weekend in the country and found her home invaded and, yeah, i'm going to tell mom that you were herein your underwear with that -- >> jed. >> jed. >> that was funny. tell me about "landline ". >> sure. okay. "landline" is my second movie with writer director gill january rose peer and elizabeth home and it's about a family in 1995 living in manhattan and two sisters who are ten years apart, don't really get along. i play dana who is very uptight and a real goody two shoes and her sister alley played by abby quinn is kind of a -- she's sort of a bad arkansas. she's going to raes that night, doing -- experimenting with drugs and they don't get along but when they discover that their father is potentially having an affair, they become

friends for the first time under that stress. and it's really funny and also sort of rather sad. >> yeah. the sad part comes where? >> the sadness is throughout, much like life. much like -- much like the human experience, the sadness is finally woven in a beautiful latticework. >> that's the dhiend works. >> yeah, yeah, it does. that's why i like this movie so much and why i like gillian's work is that it's never one thing. >> yeah. >> which i find to be very true to, you know, human experience. >> right. >> it's like you laugh at funerals sometimes, it's just something weird happens and all of your emotions there are all of the time. and it's actually weird to act like there's only one mode. >> yeah. yeah. have you always been funny? have you always known you were funny? >> i don't know. i think that's a question that people ask funny people or whatever, and i'm pointing to myself, but i know that i did comedy. >> yeah.

>> but it feels like it would be a strange simplification of myself to say like i'm a funny person. but i like to make people laugh. i did notice it as a special thing or like a special -- a special sun that i felt shining on me when i was younger. >> yeah. >> and it was a way for me to stand out for sure. >> i notice today like at camp i remember. but i never really thought of it was anything but a part of me. i think it's an adulthood when people are like and this is your thing and you're like oh, i thought my thing was being myself. >> yeah, yeah. >> like the whole thing. >> speaking of being yourself, what is it about your personality that lends itself to the comedy, to being so funny? >> it's a weird thing to say because i think people think comedians are dee depressive. >> and many of them are or live rough lives or whatever. >> right. i think my comedy comes from my nature and my nature is that i'm very community oriented and i

like to feel love and connection constantly. so the way that i put myself out there to say, like, i need something and i'm not a predator but i have needs and i have a drive. >> yeah. >> and like that's so -- it's -- i think it's -- i mean, so cheesy to say but it feels like it comes from love. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> self love other people love too. >> i'm glad you said that because i don't know that i've ever talked to a comedian. i've talked to a ton of them over the years on this program. i've never gotten that particular answer. your point, when you stud dit greats from prior on down. >> yeah. >> you discover that so many of them have these dark periods in their life and they find the comedy, they find the humor, you know, running away from or at least either running away from or they find the humor in that darkness. but yours say different answer. that love is what motivates and an mates the comedy. >> sure. but that's also because sometimes just like most people

i very feel very, very lonely and because i'm afraid of not receiving love. so there is a darker element to it, it's just that first of all i have both of my parents are artists and i think they recognized in me this sensitivity early on and they showed me carol burnett and guilda radnor and i identified with lily tomlin, women also. >> yeah. >> women. and saysa me street which is one of the first place that's thought -- >> pbs show. >> i know. and also i'd like to be on sesame street, i wish that they would let me. i can please be on sesame street, pbs? >> but, yeah, the dark -- it's just that i have had a lot of support. >> yeah. >> so it's always been put to me that you need to actually make an active choice between living in the dark and living in the light. and that doesn't mean denying either one. >> yeah. >> but that -- ooif just been centered ton a lot. i get super anxious.

>> yeah. >> just try not to let it win. >> so since the producers of sesame street watch our program. >> do they? >> yeah. what do you want to do on sesame street. you want to pitch your idea? >> one thing -- it's actually i saw lina horn on with grover when i was a little girl and she sings the song about saying hello. and it's like, how do you do, it's like really great and grover is really the one much. he out of all sesame street or all the henson stuff that i really relate to, more than telewho's verying an vus sious. >> why grover? you know i have to ask this. >> he's super grover, he has an alter ego but he has a soft little head and he likes to be kissed on his soft little head and that area that he's always like offering up like just, you know, he's like -- he's sort of normal but he is often making social mistakes. >> yeah. >> like when he's the waiter and he always brings the wrong thing. >> i remember as a little girl relating to that but also being stressed.

>> right. >> just being like i'm like that. and i get it and so anyway, i would like to sing a song to grover about manners because i also feel like manners are very important. >> yeah. >> and i think they soften us all. >> yeah. if that doesn't get you on sesame street, i don't know what will. >> yes, what the heck. >> you pitched that thing beautifully. >> what the "h," come on. and i know the whole alphabet. come on. [ laughter ] >> that is funny. you're cracking me up. let me get back to guilda radnor because i was read something stuff but in your life and career getting ready for our conversation and i ways really -- i was pleased but i was actually sort of humbled, even blown away i should say fwby this list of women that you listed in our conversation that you'd like to hang out with and guildal radnor was on that list. >> yeah. >> you know what list i'm talking about? >> i do. and i think on that list it's guilda radnor and ruth gordon

and madelyn con, but also msk fisher who's a food write frert early 19 hundreds. i was introduced her through my friend who say wonderful actress and so smart and she -- i was talking about food one day and she was like, you would really like this woman and her books. and i just tend to enjoy a female perspective that is so deep twin self and joyfully getting out into the world. >> i don't know that women are often offered that as a first -- first alternative for how to live. it's either like it's find a way to be nld world but your inner life and iefldentity is not for everybody. in the way that show everyone everything we're so happy to have you. i just also believe as an artist is that you should go through everywhere and that hin concludes plants and animals.

>> not to gift movie away but i get the sense that when you all fill will this you were expecting a different yut come on the presidential election. >> tote m. isn't that so heartbreaking. >> there's a scene i won't give away but i think you thought mrs. clinton was going to pull this off. >> for sure. of course we did. so did so many other people. >> including her. >> yeah. yeah. certainly. and, yeah, so there's footage of hillary clinton in the film and what i think is really interesting is that at that time hillary clinton was a woman who was forced to carry around the weight of her husband's sort of bad behavior. not as the president but as a husband. and oddly that got put on her, but not oddly because under patriarch i can women hold men's experience all the time and the men go forward with what win, which say giant bummer. and he'd did i fallco plays my

mother and she's also tasked with keeping the secret of her husband's weakness dollars and misbee hafrz knowing that if she just as if hillary clinton had said, yeah, i don't like my husband for what he did, the presidency would have fallen apart for many reasons, you know. she was a major important point in that. and he'ddy in our movie is also forced into silence and under that stress. and there are three generations of women in this movie who feel unseen and silenced and some of it is heightened in the way that he'ddy's is and some of it is so stressful because it's normalized and that's what my character deals with and what many women deal with is the normalization of silence. >> you seem to have a pretty good handle on your womanhood. >> me. >> yeah. >> i'm not shutting up for anyone, i can't help myself. >> i will leave it right there. there's a quick exit question. do you have a -- since nowadays

"land lines seem not to exist, do you have a favoritelined flashback? >> well, my grandfather is english as a fourth language and the first time a boy called up at our house to ask me out, first of all i was 16 but for some reason my grandmother was still baby sitting me, which says a lot. but secondly she -- i have a friend named max. she straight up thought that his name was halt. like cannot get a handle on names in the english language, which is odd. but so a boy called -- i was in the shower, i came out she was like a boy called and asked you out tonight, for tonight. i was like who was it? no one had ever dauld u called to ask me out before. she was like howard. >> howard? i was like that's not from my generation. there's nobody named howard. i'm like, and we didn't have call waiting so it was like you just got to hope that this guy isn't going to be put off by my grandmother. >> yeah. >> or not like me because i'm 16 years old and my grandmother is baby sitting me.

but he called back, so, yeah, we went on the date. >> okay. >> i feel like chuck lowery and how'd the date end? >> it was bad. >> well we won't be back, we will not be back in two and two, we'll just leave that -- leave of that right where it is. the project is called "landline" starring generally slate. delighted to have you here, come back again. >> please have me again. >> i would love to have you again. >> and please tell the sesame street people. >> come on. >> believe me, they got it. that's our show for tonight and as always, keep safe. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> hi oar aim tavis smiley join me next time for self-made billion yar john paul de jurorio, that's next time. we'll see you then.

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