good evening from los angeles. tonight a conversation with michael render, better known as kill a mike. one half of the super group run the jewels whose latest albums run the jewels three received widespread acclaim. what are we talking about tonight? knowing mike, a little bit of everything and you don't want to miss it. i'm glad you joined us. a conversation with killer mike in just a moment.

sonchts pleased to welcome back to this program, rapper activist and one half of run the jewel, kill the mike. it is one of the most intense and fierce truth stelers. runt jewels three was released earlier this year to widespread acclaim. mike, always an honor to have you on this program. >> happy to be here. >> you good? >> i am. >> always delighted to see you. you want to deal with this first? >> what? >> i know i'm going to get phone

calls or textors e-mails. >> it's actually the last song on the record. >> i know. >> it features that from rage against the machine. fwhaut is very much my mentality. and what i mean in that, i think years ago i may have heard someone say that if you walk along a path or journey meet your master killer. as a human being, you're born free. you are literally born free. i get the thoughts in my head. i make t-shirts saying we spend most of our time, a lot of times fighting for freedom, search for freedom, wondering where freedom. you were already born free. the creator, the universe decided we should be here decided that. and a lot of times freedom is something you give up. and truly who your master is, is you. the master becomes your addictions. your master becomes your need for attention. your master becomes your need for acceptance. we have a acceptance to your oppressor. you have to kill that desire within yourself. ultimately killing your master is not about an outpouring of

violence and taking anyone down and becoming the next dictator or the next person that opposes your will. it is to impose your will on yourself for your greater good. so killing my master is less to do with fighting than against the forces of evil and more to do with fighting for the forces of good. now you happen to be a physical slave for real and someone is willing to keep you enslaved and uses your duty to absolutely kill them. to live free as you were born. >> i want to come back in a second. we had a conversation on this show a week or so ago celebrating a major anniversary for the black panthers. they took over the state capital in sacramento over the issue of guns. and who had a right to carry a weapon in the public. ronald reagan went after the panthers. you know the whole story. >> governor reagan. >> we had a whole conversation about. that i can't wait to talk to mike again about where he is in this present moment in this era of trump on black folk and guns.

i promise we'll come back. you mentioned freedom. i was in a conversation with somebody, an older brother many years ago the i never forget this line. you quoted him, a buddhist admonish. fwhut brother said to me years ago, the only two types of black folk in the world. two tichz people, period, either you run scared or running free. he broke it down. you're running scared or running free. does z. that resonate with you? >> yeah. like i think about my grandfather often. all black people, a lot of times they say white folk is coded words. my grandfather who was a libertarian, you know, he just wanted to pay his taxes and leave him alone. two little girls, a woman and a man and a boy, and then slam the door. so for me and my grandfather was, he was very much just stay out of white folk business. what i realize in retrospect or looking at or talk about, he would think about who paves our

street. he thinks about who our city council was. he didn't think above mayor. above mayor is white folk business. so the strong hold is atlanta. you should worry about the business of atlanta or translate, worry about local politics. and gubernatorial politics and national politics for him that, is white folk business. you running free or running scared, enjoy the freedom you have. push to fight to keep it. uche tla is 50 miles around you. make sure your schools are, good your streets are paved and city council is reflectivest neighborhood that you're n make sure that your mayor is reflective of the wishes you see, police chief, prosecutors. worry about that stuff first so you're running free and not running scared because you're being fed stories every day from the federal bogeyman and commenting on gubernatorial. enjoy your strengths and strong holds and build on them. i believe that's what we got to do. and just stay out of other business that doesn't directly concern and can't affect you immediately.

>> you put yourself all up in white folk business. >> yeah. you came out and endorsed bernie sanders and traveled with bernie sanders. >> yeah. >> there are a number of questions there. i'll start with this one. what would your grandfather have thought of you being smack dab in the middle of white folk business? >> boy, first he would have told my grand mom he kept me around democrats too much. i was -- i have been campaigning for democratic candidates my entire life. since i was 6 are 7 years old. whether it was andy -- >> andy young. >> andy young or jackson running for mayor, city people running for city council. i was toaught up, i grew up in black neighborhood and black schools and black politicians g or bad, i saw me. that's how i learned all politicians can make mistakes. the ones that make mistakes look like me. because atlanta was successful city right. there all black mayors in my lifetime. i know that we can be great. i know that we can be bad.

so i judge us fairly. he probably told me, i pivoted too much to answer any grandmother, but after he heard the things that bernie was saying which were in line with the things that i have been taught about dr. king and his philosophy. this is the first time i saw the national level besides jesse's run maybe, someone who acclimated themselves to the voter's rights act. decriminalization of marijuana, ending the drug war, making sure that black people and all poor people in, the south we have a lot of poor people, in a city like atlanta, making sure there is a base whether it is minimum wage or income. making sure universal health care is a real possibility. those are all things i learned about dr. king. i just went through a point in my life where i could no longer tow the democratic line because that's what i was told to do. i had to adhere to the virtues and the principles that i had been told all my life we're supposed to. so i couldn't turn away when i saw it.

i had been taught that these ar the principles i'm supposed to stand for. >> you skipped if, i heard you correctly, you went from king to jackson, jesse to sanders. did you mean to skip over obama? >> yeah, i did. and that's not a slight on my president. he has been next to black jew jesus when hit the flea market in '88, he is the greatest wall hanging picture of any black barber house or household. >> he may be like black jesus. >> he may be the black jesus. but the reason i don't is because he compared himself to reagan. and there is no room for a reaganite in that. and i'm not saying that sand serz better. but i am opposed to most of the policies of ronald reagan. therefore, if you put your snefl a reagan light, i can't put you next to a king or a king because we know reagan was not that. a great politician, a great centrist from the republican

side, someone who managed to defeat the soviet union, absolutely. we got the king holiday negotiated under him thanks to people like others. but can i follow that in terms of a political philosophy'higher office of the land? i can't. he is the greatest symbol in my house next to black jesus, yeah. >> okay. how are you navigating this trumpian moment given where we are all know you stood with bernie sanders? how do i take this? >> how have progressive black people been progressive black people for most of their lives and dealt with it. we've been making concessions and dealing with devils most of our life. i don't mean he's the devil. no. what i mean is that's how we characterize nixon. that's how we characterize reagan. that's how you have to characterize, you know, nixon in particular but lyndon johnson. we dealt with this character as president before. if you're black in the south, you dealt with the politicians he's appointing for most of your life. jeff sessions didn't just pop-up. sessions was in alabama for most

of my life. newt gingrich has been in georgia most of my life. when you talk about these people for the further north you go and up east coast, it becomes a bogeyman. but it you're from the southeast, you know these people. you know what they're going to do. you know their moves chchlt i think makes it easier to organize against the moves they're making. if we use thises is an opportunity to organize and not an opportunity to name blame, to name call. >> do you see organization or do you merely see powerful that they may be arresting though they may be, do you see organizing at the moment, mike, or do you just see protest? >> i see resistance and plat, plan, strategize, organize, mobilize. i see organizing when the organizer becomes a front. right now we're plotting out, planning, strategizing. and that's good. that's the first level of process. we get it. i get having an idea. i get playing it out. i strategize and get getting out

of the streets. let's make sure we organize and have an agenda. african-americans, our allies have agendas. you know, thealize have an aagenda yachlt we know gay and lesbian wrig lesbian rights, they have an agenda. we have to develop a real agenda. and that has nothing to do with asking people what they think. that agenda has everything to deciding what is best for african-americans f public schools are not working for african-americans, we make sure our girls keep graduating high school and graduating college higher rate of people f your boys are not as interested like walter williams, a conservative, a black economist, send your boys into trade immediately. right? my man lives next door. you know what i'm saying? you know, he came prepared. he came with $10 and now has 20 trukdz and employees. he got. that he understood a trade and

everybody needs a trade. ain't nobody got time to be racist in the restaurant when the air goes out. they have to call someone who is an expert. your boy should be mastering trades now. your boys should be going to barber school, carpentry school. we should come up with that agenda. we should demand that black college reinstitute two year trade and have four year programs. we can do these things ourselves f we're not in a city like atlanta where you have p 70% or 80% of the schools are black but you don't have an 80% graduation rate. you can't blame parents for going to chaert schools. we are producing the excellence we need to sustain our community. we don't keep our dollar in our community over six hours f you're talking about white american, jewish american, asian-american, the dollars stay in their community 26 and 28 days. our dollar doesn't stay in our community six hours. places like atlanta need to be replicated. it is a place can you type in black restaurant and bar and get

50 selections. i need to see that in nashville, memphis, new york, compton. because when we start doing that, you start to alleviate the need for government and to the white folk would are watching now who see that and reverse racism, you say what? >> if you're a good white person, you can't see that as reverse racism. you have to see that as economic survival. one of the most pleasurable experiences that happened to me i was in a restaurant that we like to go to in chicago. and we were in there. i went back this time. i was a lot more whites people in there this time. they knew me from the sanders campaign. but when we circled around to come back out, i took a picture with the owner. i said i have to get a picture with you because you were so nice. she said what you are doing here? i said i'm -- she said i know what you're doing, you're supporting the black business and we are too. that's what i need, an ally. i don't need someone saying mike, what about my feelings?

i care about your feelings. that's why i shop at a lot of white stores. i care about your feelings. that's why i don't give you to read the aunty would have given you. i need you to be a supportive ally in more ways than just marching with me. march your dollar to a black bank. when i did the black banking with usher about a year ago in february, what surprised me and what enthused me most is seeing hoards of black people coming and opening accounts. but that, we challenges the businesses that do business with black people to do the same. and white and asian business owners from our community in atlanta also opened up bank accounts and citizens trust. up and down the east coast whether it is boston or out here in miami, white business owners hit me and say i opened a bank account. i opened a bank account. that is anal lichlt an ally has a vested interest in spirit but they put it out there for real. so for got white people that get offended and call that reverse racism, i encourage them to watch any james elliott speech. you may still hold some things

in you that you didn't get rid of. and miss elliott does a effective job at helping you recognize. that. >> i saw a piece the other day, i wish i could read the stuff. it was either new york or the new yorker and i'm not sure which one. you can go online and find it. a piece that was really doing some analysis on the black vote in this last election. i've been waiting on this piece. i knew it was going to come. negroes or some color folk is going to get blamed for this. i saw the piece. i said there it s it is just a maert matter of time. the argument written in this story was that negroes didn't turn out in 2016 like they had in 2012, like they had in 2008. and if she turned out, hillary would have won the election. it's not about hillary or james comey. it's negroes didn't turn out to vote. we're the reasons why the democrats didn't win the white house in 2016. again, i expected it at some

point once they had time to look at the data. they would put that on black folk. how do you read that argue snment. >> if we're that important, why don't you treat us better? to the democratic party, to the democratic party, they know what wh high numbers turn out they win and have a greater chance of winning. i was asked after sanders what no longer campaigning, i was asked would i support hillary. i was like absolutely. what do you got for black people? everybody acted like, why you would ask her fog that? why wouldn't you? i vote for my city councilman because i think they can get my streets paved. and if you can't get my streets paved, you ain't getting my vote next time, player. you know what i mean? i vote for my mayor because i expect my next mayor and i'll be voting for senator vincent fort, right who stepped out of line of the democratic party to support bernie in atlanta. but one of the first things he came out on besides minimum wage is decriminalize of marijuana.

that puts our boys on probation program y i do want that to continue when i need them going to trade school or college? that is common sense. so as for me if, i'm that important you to, treat me as though i'm important you to. so what i said is i'll come out and back any democratic candidate that publicly says this is what i have. and i did that because cnbc and a young lady challenged me to do. that she said i'll get behind sanders if you do that. later i found out it was a soul sister and her boyfriend is white. i said this is around. but i was -- but her challenge made sense to me and resonated with me in respect to the democratic party also. we have given you 60 years of loyalty of loyalty and all we have gotten from you are silly answers like we gave you some government funding. we do for women and children which is very important. but wouldn't it be better to help grow strong men? so that we don't need -- i don't

want us to be the picture of government assistance. we're not. by numbers, we're not the most people on government assistance. you're always the person you drag up. even the clintons in the bast dragging up two black mothers. shameful. i want to tell you thank you but no thank you. we fleed to know the vote is current and is worth something. if this party or any party is not willing to do something that is measurable, to contribute to the 240-year wealth gap that they have now. this country is only 240 something years old. 241 years old. there are 238 year get we will gap. when king died, he was talking about land grants. he was talking about farms and subsidizing those the same way that has happened from the beginning of i'm in this country. someone doesn't want you to get economically powerful. someone needs your vote to stay dependent so they need to keep giving you and parcelling stuff out whuchlt decide who that someone is and ask them for more, you're not wrong to say i'm going to sit on my hands if i don't get it.

you weren't wrong when car michael told you to do that or when killer michael told you to do it. the only wall that you don't vote in your best interest, i don't care what anyone tells you. if your vote does not do something for you, then you're wasting your vote. >> i will to address this myself and i think any of us does or should if we expect to navigate our way through this. how are you on a personal level, how are you navigating the trump era? like every day you wake up and you get another alert that scares you. how are you personally navigating until you get a chance to do something about that? how are you navigating? >> first thing, i talk to old people. i talk to old people and have a very honest conversation. i don't mean old like we don't need them. i mean filled with wisdom. my father is 61 years old. his wife is the same age. what was it like living in louisiana? i asked reverend james and his wife, what it is going to be like? all of them said the same thing to me. this is far from the worst thing we've been through. i've seen worst mayors, governors or presidents than

this. this is not the first dumb person that led a bunch of us. don't worry about it. what you need to worry about is worry about your money, worry about yourself, worry about your community. you maybe need to stop watching cnn and fox and start watching thomas south, start watch more conservative blocks, i'm saying learn to become financially independent. learn to make sure that, okay, i'm taking care of my own credit. i'm making sure i'm banking black. i'm making sure that i deal with small black businesses. i make sure i create a network. baltimore should oenld by rappers and athletes. rappers and athletes should be dumping as much money as they can into buying baltimore. you're going to go right into maryland next. we should be buying into the same way people bought up detroit. the same way atlanta is now bought up. and athletes, street dudes who manage to get it out and got a construction company. we have to start doing for ourselves.

people are telling me that in the depression during the depths of depression, communities of blacks were not failing because some people grew. some people slaughtered animals, some people fished. some people had money to lend money like a bank. if we don't start doing that, then we're going to continue to be the mistress of any political party we feel will have us. i'm tired of that position when i know our community is strong enough to be self us is stained. >> a lot of the black folk you reference dd not give up their guns which takes me full circle. >> i'm never giving up my guns. >> donald trump gave a spoem speech to the nra. we talked about the 50th an ver verse anniversary of the black panthers. what do you say to black folk about their guns in 2017? >> google robert f. williams. he was a person that inspired the panthers to become the panthers. he was a black marxist. he was a person that nra gave a charter to in north carolina so

that blacks could defend themselves later on people like. that he also sold them ammunition when they couldn't buy ammunition locally. so nra has a value to me. my father's been a member. i'm a member. i think my father is lifetime. i'm a member. it had value to me my entire life. i am personally think that one million black then this week should go online and just get a year's membership and see how you like it. they didn't hold that thing in atlanta for nothing. they could have held it in minnesota or oklahoma. they could have held it in north texas. they held it in atlanta because they don't have a problem with you having guns. >> you fwlaef? >> absolutely i do. >> i'm not sure i buy. that you don't have to buy it. >> everything you say, this is my point f we want to do something about the gun control issue in this country, give every negro a gun in america, that problems goes away. >> let's do it then. let's test the theory. >> i'm all for it. >> i want a million men. >> not because they want us to

visit. >> they don't want us to not have it. as long as they visit, you get your white to the sideline, cool. white men don't want to give up their guns and i'm with them. if you don't want to give up your guns and i have that right, not privilege but that right, too, then i'm standing on your side of the room when they say who is for guns. you don't have to be my friend to be mial lichlt but if you're going to pretend my friend, then you have to vote with me. if we're not going to be pretend, let's make sure that a million black men join the nra. show up on the nra mazz saturday and spokesman who says that partst problem is every time guns are described and references to black people, they talk about gangs and drugs. and that's unfair and wrong. most gun owners i know whether it's ten people to my left or right are responsible home owning black men with families who own rifles and handguns. there are rifles because they hunt for sport. they have handguns to protect thefl semz. they have a shotgun to protect

th their wife and children. people need to see dr. corn he will west trying to get off the range. you know what i mean? what we can't have is when guns are talked about, we go silent and shrug in a corner and allow our moms and sisters to only talk about guns. remember, i encourage more women to shoot, too. i think there are pink panthers or the pandas or group of black women this r. shooting. we need the service people coming home to form shooting clubs. and this ain't hey they're coming to kill us. this is because guns get picked up by children. your children should know how to walk away from a again if they see one. by the time your boy is 12, 13 year old, he should know how to load and unload a pistol. we need to be cognizant that rights are not everywhere. i was in london three years ago. i got one question by all the black kids. do you know boochie man and can you own a gun for sflael so if they want ak-47s to protect their rights and freed omgz, i think we're remisnot to enjoy

the rights and freedoms in this country. >> killer mike has spoken. we're going to leave it. there i can talk to this brother two or three, four nights in a row. the rwisdom just flowing. killer mike, thank you for having you on this program. that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching. and as always, keep the faith. join me next time for a conversation with author joyce carol oats. that's next time. we'll see you then.

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