>> rose: welcome to the program. we take note this evening of a story which we'll have more on tomorrow night. north korea announced more advances in its nuclear capability and president trump fired back saying we will unleash fire and fury if they endanger the united states. here is a report from the "cbs evening news." >> north korea best not make any more threats to the united states. they will be met with fire and fury like the world has never seen. >> the president's warning follows threats of retaliation for u.s. sanctions, and reports today that the north has passed a key milestone on the road to becoming a nuclear power. u.s. intelligence believes the north produce add nuclear warhead that can fit inside its missiles. we begin tonight with national

security correspondent david martin. >> if the assessment by the pentagon's defense intelligence agency is accurate, north korea has crossed a crucial but not the final threshold in developing a nuclear weapon that can threaten the american homeland. shortly after word of the new estimate leaked, president trump warned kim jong un in the starkest terms possible. >> he has been very threatening beyond a normal at the sam statd as i said, they will be met with fire, fury and frankly power, the likes of which this world has never seen before. >> more than a year ago, kim jong un showed off what he claimed was a nuclear device small enough to fit atop a missile. north korea already has conducted five underground nuclear tests, the last one estimated to system to hit the

target. without that north korea does not have a workable nuclear weapon. but the defense intelligence agency estimated north korea could have a reliable weapon as early as next year. a full two years earlier than previously forecast. intelligence estimates can turn out to be wrong as the u.s. learned the hard way in iraq, but the latest estimate combined with the president's words leaves no doubt north korea will

be his final test of charged in chief. >> david mentioned the u.s. bombing of hi rosh ma. >> president trump's rhetoric sounded like a speech harry truman gave after the first u.s. atomic bomb strike at hiroshima. >> if they do not accept our terms, they may expect a rain of war from the air the like of which has never been seen on this earth. behind this attack will follow sea and land forces in such numbers and power as they have not yet seen. asking if the president was looking toward war, kellyanne conway said there was no explaining. >> the president's comments were strong and obvious is. >> daryl i.s.i.s. compared it to the most dangerous cold war confrontation. >> it represents the greatest

crisis undoubtedly since the cuban missile crisis. this is something that can hit us and our allies and it's with a rogue nation that we suspect would use it. >> the president's words contrasted shopperly with secretary of state rex tillerson's declaration last week that the u.s. was open to negotiations. >> we're trying to convey to the north koreans we are not your enemy or your threat. >> plump ignored basic illustration policy on sensitive north korea information. earlier in the day he retweeted a report on u.s. satellite imagery of north korean conventional missiles prompting the response from u.n. ambassador nicky haily. >> i can't talk about anything that's classified and if that's in the newspaper that's a shame. >> rose: we begin with the future of the democratic party, joining me is mike barnicle, neera tanden. >> they're in bad shape now and we talk about washington.

there have been parties in worse shape in washington, the republicans in 1975, but they're in bad shape all around the country. the republicans control 34 governorships with a switch in west virginia this week, control 69 of 99 state legislators it's a party that doesn't have a very good foreign club now. ideas matter. they have to develop a better message. >> rose: we continue with a look at the film "good time." we tack to actor robert pattinson and film making brothers josh and benny safdie. >> loneliness suddenly hit. he doesn't know quite how to process it and the only thing he really has is just a sibling and that's it because the rest of his family clearly has nothing to do with him. but, yeah, he's -- he doesn't actually want to love his brother for his brother, he just loves him because it's his. >> rose: we conclude with a remembrance of glen campbell, died today at age 81.

we talked to patrick doyle of rolling stone magazine and a portrait of glen campbell from anthony mason, the anchor of cbs "cbs evening news." >> he had a very clear tenor voice but he had all this emotion behind it, and you could hear the sadness in his voice, and it was just a lot of strings and slick music, but the songs were so good. >> rose: the future of the democratic party, the movie "good time," and remembering glen campbell, all of that when we continue. >> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by the following:

>> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> rose: 200 days into his administration president donald trump's approval ratings are the lowest in history. meanwhile the republican-led congress has failed to achieve a single major legislative victory, yet the democratic party still struggles to define itself and formulate a cohesive strategy. a recent "washington post" poll found 52% of americans think that the democratic party just stands against trump. party leaders recently laid out their economic agenda in a plan called "a better deal." senator chuck schumer wrote a recent op-ed outlining the plan that his party had failed to articulate a strong, bold, economic program for the middle

class and those working hard to get there and vowed they'd not repeat the same mistake. joining me al hunt of bloomberg news and neera tanden president of the center for american progress. joining me in new york senior contribute of msnbc's "morning joe" mike barnicle. where is the democratic party. >> they're in bad shape now. we talk about washington. there have been parties in worse shape in washington, the republicans in 1975, but they're in bad shape all around the country. the republicans control 34 governorships with a switch in west virginia this week. they control 68 of 99 state legislators. it's a party that doesn't have a very good foreign club now. ideas matter. they have to develop a better message. 2020 is much too early to talk about. they'll do well next year because it's an off year and they have a lot of negative

stuff to run against trump on, but that you have to start to develop a party around the country which they have been totally outgunned by the republicans over the last ten years. >> rose: neera? same question. >> i mean, i don't disagree with al. i do think that the party, a little bit like the republican party during the bush years, but the party does not have enough governor seats, locked out of a lot of state legislators particularly in the midwest. there are 36 governors races in 2018. the entire midwest is up. important states like florida. i think the governor's races will be a critical test of what ideas democrats have to not just fight against trump but to be an alternative. >> rose: do you think there is time and we will now see as the democratic party struggles with

its identity and with its program and strategy that we'll see a new generation come to bear and will no longer be other people like those who have been in leadership positions like the clintons and others? >> absolutely. it is really early to talk about 2020, but i think there will be a range of people m people who are in their '40s and early 50s who are positioning themselves to run and who are running and, most importantly, for the governor's races, there will be a whole new generation of people running for those important seats, and the ideas that get meeted out on the economy, on jobs, in the governor's races i think will be more important than the presidential race is very far away. i think the health care bedate was a critical one for democrats. it did position democrats as fighting for a really bread and

butter issue for american families. people saw health care in the vain of what it means for them personally and that fight was i think really important first fight for democrats as they face the trump administration. >> rose: mike, when you look at some of the special elections that have been held in which republicans have won for them, part of the problem for the democrats some think is they ran on an anti-trump strategy and not a presentation of how they speak to the issues of concern for the voters in those districts. >> largely, i think that's probably an accurate assessment. i think, you know, neera and al have addressed part of the problem, but i think the larger problem for the democrats is they basically have to answer a question individually and collectively as a party, who are you, what do you represent. if you look at the republicans who win these races, the special congress nails that have been held or a lot of the governorships, they run against government, that government is your enemy, government has

failed you, government has overpromised, government has overspent and a lot of people buy it and the democrats, first of all, have got to get young, younger. no offense to, you know, nancy pelosi or anyone else, but they have to get younger. the message has to be more encompassing, it's got to be economic, it's got to be cultural, it's got to be soacialtion it's got to address things like educational reform, what robotics are going to do to your job, what artificial intelligence might do to your children's jobs. what's going on in your kids' schools, do you have daycare? can you afford childcare? a whole range of social issues, they have to be unafraid to wade into that. >> rose: why didn't hillary clinton wade into that? everybody knew income inequality was a huge issue in america. >> you know, charlie, caution is a great thing to hold up at a school crossing, you know. caution is not great thing to have when you're running for president for basically the

third or fourth time. that's what she was doing running basically saying it wants my turn and she would have been certainly qualified to be president but i think a lot of people said, huh-uh. >> rose: you're not the candidate for me, that's not what i want, i want something different. >> yeah, and, unfortunately, trump gave them something they thought was different. but a lot was based upon his opposition and rhetoric, anti-government rhetoric. >> rose: what are the -- go ahead neera. >> i guess i would disagree with a little bit with that, which is to say i actually think donald trump did really well with a lot of people who voted for obama. i mean, a fair amount of the electorate switch particularly in midwest states, peening people who voted for obama twice and voted for donald trump because they didn't see him as a traditional republican, and i would argue he actually campaigned sort of anti-libertarian message, he supported social security and medicare and medicaid.

he was going to be a lot tougher on trade than republicans have certainly been in the past. so i actually think that -- you know, mike is absolutely right that in these special elections we've had, kind of message of anti-government that republicans have been campaigning on have been important, but there are 20-plus republican districts, very disproportionately republican. i think the issue for democrats is -- and i agree with mike. i think the issue with democrats is what do you stand for. i think the argument that chuck schumer and others are trying to put forward is the democratic party has to stand with the middle class, with working people against the kind of, you know, large corporations that have been, you know, to coin a term, rigging the system against them. that's why they put forward ideas on antitrust and other ideas like that. i think that we're in the middle of the debate and we really

believe i think jobs are an essential element of this. but i actually think trump did something different than most republicans, very different from romney. he was not a libertarian candidate. he may be governing like one now, but, you know, he said he was going to have an even better healthcare system for voters, not a worse one. so i think, you know, we have new data that shows people are actually more open to government solving problems, but democrats do have to have app answer on how they will make people's lives better. >> rose: wasn't the campaign of donald trump simply a campaign of promises? i mean, promises contradictory with built-in conflict that you couldn't do the kinds of things he was promising because often they were at opposite ends against each other. >> at least, i think in some areas -- we saw this when talking to voters afterwards, you know, they liked trump, the new voters for him, the obama voters who were

disproportionately white voters in the midwest, ohioans wanted 15 points for trump. sounded like he was against cutting entitlements, medicare, medicaid, social security, he sounded different in those areas. in some ways he sounded like a traditional republican. but i actually think -- you know, ultimately, he basically said to voters who were struggling, i understand you're in pain and i'm going to do something about it, i'm going to do something radical. i'm going to tear up territory to immigrants, i don't like the answer but i'll ban immigrants. democrats have to have a better answer for the voters who feel like they're suffering in an economy that hasn't done well for people particularly who haven't gone to college. >> rose: al? charlie, i think we miss a little bit of the point here. i think good presidential candidates, if we want to jump

ahead, convey a message that they connect to people. ronald reagan did, barack obama did, donald trump did. i haven't his particular position on trade or social security. lord knows hillary clinton had a 17-point program for every problem that existed and a few that didn't. so i don't think it's the specific items. i think it's what they convey. trump, and i think it was a phony message, but he conveyed a sense of we're going to make america great again. reagan, we're going to make america strong again. barack obama, hope. so that's what the democrats needed in the long run. in the short term, they can be negative in 2017. every off-year election, the party out of power is negative and they pick up on the advantage. the optics are important. the democrats too often look old. i'm not an ageist because that would be against my self-interest, but i thought the better deal was fine, but a

little less of nancy pelosi, a little less of chuck schumer, more of pamela harris, of kirsten gillibrand, cory booker, seth moulton. they don't showcase their talent as well as the republicans five or ten years ago with the paul ryans and the marco rubios. so i think optics matter and in the long run hope they can develop a candidate who can connect to people the way the successful ones have done in the past. >> the optics are critical, al is absolutely right, and i think part of the optical problem the democrats have, when you listen to people when you're walking around, is the democratic party, the party they belong to and vote for barack obama maybe twice and their parents' party for years and years a lot of the national democrats, they feel, pay more attention to silicon valley and peel a lot of the republicans, especially donald trump in his fraudulent way that

he did, artfully but fraudulently during the campaign, is he managed to, without saying it, identify with a huge, huge percentage of people in this country who suffered grievous losses in 2008 and 2009. they lost jobs, they lost income, they lost retirement savings, they lost their homes, imany of them, and a lot of them also put their sons and daughters at risk of losing them in a war that's being fought for 16 years. these are the people, the composition, the basis of what the democratic party used to be, and they fled because of optics. >> i would like to agree with mike and say it's not just optics. i agree with the substance which is essentially we've had massive transformations in the economy

that particularly people who haven't gone to college are bearing the brunt of. the reality is in the united states today that the labor force participation rate, the number of people, the percentage of people actually in the labor force who should have jobs, that rate is lower for people who don't go to college and for people to go to college, it's basically can you believe, people who aren't in the labor force. it's lower in france today. i think that is a really big challenge for the united states. and those people have been suffering. and the essential issue is our unemployment numbers kind of mask it. our g.d.p. numbers mask it, but if you haven't gone to college, this economy has been really tough. income -- real income has declined over the last 15 years for those folks and i think trump actually spoke to them. i think the reality is that we

have technology, globalization, these are trends that are creating incredible pressure, particularly for people at the low end of the skills situation, and the reality is we don't -- candidates haven't give an great answer as to what to do about that. you know,ening we have to really think about different kind of answers like public jobs for folks, jobs in infrastructure, jobs in childcare, jobs in hospitals. large-scale investments. but the current economic debate and the one that we had for the last several years has been pretty limited, and i think trump put out some radical answers on trade and elsewhere, but at least some people heard that as at least he gets the scale of the problem. that's why i think it's really important for democrats to put bolder economic answers on the table. >> rose: he also defined trade in his own argument, trade is about jobs for americans and that's how he saw it, even though a lot of people could make an argument that trade

would provide more jobs in the end. >> absolutely. >> rose: your program has a call for the american -- center for american progress called for a martial plan for america. what does that mean? >> i mean, we've basically said that we've looked at the data and, as i said, people who haven't gone to college have suffered, you know, real income decline over the last 15 years, disproportionately out of the labor force and, you know, as we looked at the data and saw that you would have to create basically 4.5 million jobs to just get to the labor force participation rate we've had in 2000, but we called for a large-scale investment, infrastructure, childcare, education, healthcare, that would provide good jobs to people who, you know, are at the lower end of the scales, who haven't had a job in a long time and have been in a lot of -- in rural and urban parts of the country, there are parts of --

parts in communities and neighborhoods that really feel like they have been in a deep recession year after year. so we've said, if you just take a quarter of the amount that president trump wants to spend on taxes and invest in jobs, you could put 4.5 million more people to work. >> rose: when you look at the 2018 midterm elections, will there be a national democratic program or will it simply be a series of local races? >> i don't think there will be, charlie. in off-year elections, there rarely is. as i said, i think all the great gains that were made in 2014, 2010 and 2006 were basically negativessive. there wasn't a coherent message in 2010 other than barack obama is a bum, same in 2006, anti-george w. bush, so it will be an anti-trump message, but they have to mix that with some

things neera and mike have talked about and, hopefully for them, that paves the way for two years later. be uh in that year, they have to score big gains in the gubernatorial races, ohio and michigan and florida and wisconsin and the state legislative races, or else they really aren't going to develop the kind of national cohesion they need for two years later. >> i will just say that i actually think governors will run state-specific races, but i actually think this discussion will be at the heart of successful gubernatorial candidates, which is what can they do to ensure that families who are struggling can actually do better and their kids can do better than they have. that's been at the heart of debate for the last couple of cycles and i actually think people who actually try to come up with an answer and do it convincingly will be the candidates who are most successful. >> rose: thank you neera, mike. great to see you all.

we'll be right back, stay with us. >> rose: "good time," new film from josh and benny safdie, robert pattinson stars as a small-time criminal who attempts to get his brother out of prison after a bank robbery go wrong. film is called pure cinematic pleasure about an often funny sometimes slobbing rush into the abyss. here's a look at the trailer. >> i've got to come clean with you about something. >> what? i told you about my brother, yeah? i told you about the program he's forced to attend and how he shouldn't be there? >> don't count your chickens before they hatch. dunes that? >> no. something happened. i don't know exactly what (my brother's being arrested and held at rikers island. he could get killed in there. >> sorry. just have a client that walked in. >> good? et another ten grand, your

brother will get out. >> where are you? how much money can you get right now? >> come on, bro. oh, my gosh. are you kidding me? what do you think i'm doing this for? >> i want to get him out tonight. (siren) >> don't be confused. just going to make it worse for me. >> you ever do time before? is your brother okay? listen, i want you to come with me. now you are going to love it.

this place where we are now can be a lot of fun if you let it. you're going to have a good time. >> rose: joining me now are the two filmmakers josh and benny safdie and starring robert pattinson, police pleased to have them at the table for the first time. great to have you. >> honor to be at the table and the abyss. >> rose: there it is. this is a step up for you. tell me the sense of how it is and what you hope to accomplish in this film? >> yeah, we have been basically on a highway trying to make a film that takes place in the diamond district not far from the studio and we have been trying to make that film for seven years, maybe. it's changed a bunch, and that was always the end destination. i have a cigar in my house and a bottle of preseco that someone

gave me and said pop it open and light the cigar when you're ready to celebrate. when i die the cigar will be put in my grave and the sam pain poured on the dirt because ultimately i think we'll never find real reason to celebrate. but when rob reached out and said i would like to do whatever you're doing next is that an interesting offer. >> it was. he wasn't right for the other projects. >> rose: yeah. so began "good time," the project "good time." it was from a pool of interesting inspirations. the idea was we have an actor we respect, a movie star which will come with an audience to some degree and we wanted to make a piece of termite art where people can consume and these termites will kind f get inside of them and force their way into

your psyche after the movie and make you ask questions, why did this happen and this happen? >> rose: when you called hem this and said i would like to make a film with you. what was it about them? because you seemed to be a big star who likes the idea of finding really creative, small roles. >> i'm never a big star. >> rose: or they might not be small roles, either. >> yeah, i mean, i just kind of -- i just want to surprise myself and, yeah, just finding original material is pretty tough. >> rose: did you think i'll get it there? if i go to them, i'm more likely to get the kind of material that interests me. >> initially, it was just intuition. i literally knew nothing about the work i had just seen still from their last movie and that was the only thing. and i just kind of knew, and then i met them and they have a very dynamic energy and

conversation, and i saw the trailer for the last movie, and i was just -- i wanted to do something, which was kind of electric and kinetic and they're the masters of that. >> rose: who is connie? connie -- how do i describe this? he's a romantic psychopath. ( laughter ) >> rose: a romantic psychopath who's panicked. >> yeah, definitely, he's kind of having a bad day. >> rose: yeah. but, yeah, he's a small-time kind of criminal from queens who is -- he gets obsessed and fixated with his relationship with his younger brother who is kind of meany challenged. >> rose: and he doesn't want to talk about that, i recognize that. >> he doesn't want to recognize that at all. that was one of the major things i loved about the story is an

early moment in the movie. connie breaks his brother out of his psychiatrist's office, and they're in a place where there's a lot of mentally handicapped people, and because connie is the way he is, he refuses to accept that his brother could have anything wrong with him because they share the same blood. he's a narcissist at the same time, but i've seen that happen. you know, people who have a sibling who has issues to deal with, and the sibling, maybe it's because their parents had to give a lot more attentiono the other child or something, it really enrages another sibling, and i thought it was interesting and very difficult family relationship. >> rose: when i saw it, i thought,, this is a film about brotherly love, too. >> in some regard, sure. >> rose: or is it something else? >> it's interesting because when you take this idea of brotherhood and the fact that

connie is trying to break his brother out of this situation, it almost overshadows everything else and all the bad things he does. >> rose: because you feel some responsibility. >> exactly. as an audience you're watching, you don't realize he put his brother in that situation in the first place, but it's moving so fast and it's, like, why ami going along with this? >> connie's character, the backstory is he was released from prison on good behavior, released on good time. while he was in prison, like a lot of people who do time, they kind of i adopt almost like a born-again quality or they get extremely romantic in their ideas and then they're reindoctrinated into society and the penal system isn't designed to rehabilitate anyone, really. so while he's in prison -- >> rose: why we have so much recidivism. >> exactly. and we had the former

connecticut commissioner who appears in our movie who has led the lowest recidivist rate in the country but he appears in the jail sequence. but this connie has kind of developed this idea while in prison that everything that is holy to him is his brother and his brother represents a purity he wants to tap back into and he has a romantic idea he's going to rob a bank and they will give on a farm forever. he has a scorn for institutional and bureaucratic trappings of america. he wholly disagrees with the idea that you can change the brain from the outside, you can do it through questionnaires, through basically observation and menial exercisessish and he thinks if i can just change it from the inside, and the the only way is through experience, then i can induce some sense of independence in my brother, in his brother. the idea of that is very strong. the execution is a little questionable.

bringing him to rob a bank with him is not the best idea. >> rose: this is more than a character study. this is a movie with a message or commentary? >> when i say termite art, we wanted something you can consume, something that's entertainment first, and then afterwards you start to ask yourself, wait a second, why did that happen? why were the only two people in the park being arrest of color? why are women treated in the way they are in this movie. why are we left with an emotional wallop because we are reminded how the handicapped are treated in this world. >> the very fact you're moving at his speed and hitched on to connie's view and believe what connie believes you don't have the time to think about it. it's only after you leave the theater you ask the questions and they're important questions. >> rose: why he thinks the way he does. >> yes. once you reflect anything

back to a group of people, messages occur. norman mailer was the king of this. >> the way you can get the best results is if you focus on someone in society, it will shine a light on everything else is that how did you try to shape him in terms of what you did for research, what you did in terms of who you wanted to see, what you wanted to visit, how you wanted to, you know, feel the character is this. >> i mean, one of the great things about this, josh and benny safdie would send me chunks of backstory or sequences and most of the sequences were over the preceding nine months before i even went to start proper pre-production in the movie. i just saw the writing process and the world and just what do they want to draw from, really

and then started getting a voice, and then -- >> rose: a voice, how he sounded? >> yeah, and also, it's funny, because people are talking about, you know, doing an accent. normally you have a script and you try and paste your accent or anything out how to say something that's written in a standard american accent. this, everybody's from queens, and i think it's written in a queen's dialect. so it starts -- it's fun to say in the accent. in terms of research and stuff, me and benny, i mean, for one thing, we spent multiple days sort of just improvising kind of in character in the real world, in dunca dunkin' donuts in yonkd got a job in a car wash. i've never done anything like it. >> rose: how many people recognized you when you washed

their car? >> zero the entire time. there was a moment as well when we were trying to play out the kind of family drama in the car wash and benny is looking like he's going to start snapping people's windshield wipers off and throwing wax at people. we kind of got into a fight. no one had any idea it was just two actors doing a bit. but it definitely got close to -- >> it felt real and there was a moment when rob kind of grabbed me and stopped me from doing some of those things. we weren't thinking about the movie, we were just thinking about being these people. >> rose: thinking in the moment. >> in the moment. when he grabbed me, i almost seized up and threw him against the wall. he felt that, too. it became internalized. it's not in the movie but these techsters, being the performances. >> it's interesting these performances when you're not doing it for an audience on your

camera, you feel it's crazy, an emmeant of danger because no one is watching and you're literally just doing it for each other. it's crazy. >> rose: what's interesting to me, it seems to me, if you as a director can create that kind of feeling on a set, that's good. >> yeah, i mean, we were -- you know, developing his character was as informative for him as me. me and my partner rony, we spent so much time writing this character's backstory. we realized we couldn't overlook three months of his life. this is a very plot heavy movie. we couldn't figure out what the character did until we knew everything about him. in the process we write this insane basically psychiatric portrait of this guy connie with all these landmarks and he's questioning all the little details. then when he comes to new york, we're sitting with people from fortune society, we're sitting with -- going on walking tours of local legends and these weird

petty crimes they kind of enacted in and we're going to jails and he's going to jails in character but the character can't speak so he never spoke i'veishing thing went wrong, would we still have it? it hopefully comes across the rob's performances. >> have you seen john alpert. >> rose: he was at pbs when i was there. what's amazing about hilt, he was the first guy i know to go to cuba. this is, like, in the '70s.

>> okay. you ever seen life of crime, an hbo film he did? >> rose: yeah. also, we showed that yesterday and did a q&a with him and i think people watching the movie who have seen goodtime can see that's one of the first things because he was in ireland shooting a movie and i'm trying to bring the characters to him, sending him the belly of the beast and john alpert films to you can see and feel these things. >> rose: the camera style you use, define it for me and tell me what it adds to the movie. >> we have been making feature films ten years and basically been in a room with a closed door going not now, dad, in a weird way, as teenagers in a weird way, we wouldn't let anyone in. we were making these movies in like a -- in kind of an adolescent fashion but they were getting released and we were

able to support ourselveves with commercials but we were using our features to hone our craft, basically, and get deeper and deeper into how we want to speak. we've developed on the previous film, we've developed this kind of enamored effect with the long lens, what it does when it feels like you're pushing in on someone's personality and soul, almost. we got almost obsessed with it with our last one but then thought we were going to do a thriller. we wanted to feel at any point real cops could come in and wanted to heighten that with a certain level, a certain way of shooting. we kept things in close up a lot and it helps add to the tension that an audience can be feeling walking through the movie. >> rose: how did you want to shape him beyond what you saw in the text? what were you looking for to create your own image of him? >> i mean, there's definitely --

>> rose: part of him is a bad guy. >> yeah. >> rose: part is a loving brother. >> yeah, i was always kind of interested in, you know, you can say you love someone, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything to the target of your love. >> rose: is that true here? yeah, i mean, i think connie sort of decided -- part of the back story is they have been estranged for years and when he's in prison, he gets fixated observe his brother whom he hasn't seen for 12 years and comes out of prison and is just at full speed loving him, but he has no idea. >> rose: and this is the back story. >> and he has no idea who he is really at all. >> rose: and can't see who he is. >> and refuses to see who he is when it's right in his face. he says connie is a lonely person and loneliness suddenly

hit and he doesn't know how to process it and the only thing he really has is a sibling and that's it because the rest of his family clearly has nothing to do with him. but, yeah, he doesn't actually want to love his brother for a brother. he just loves him because it's his. he's his. >> rose: so when did each of you decide that you wanted to be in films? when did you know? were you seven? >> no. i mean, i fell into it sort of by accident, which i'm pretty happy about, because every year that goes by i get more and more invested into it. i don't think i'll ever really get sick of it. >> rose: more invested in it to try as best you can to master it knowing that in the end you will never master it? >> yeah, it just sort of -- because i think the only thing

i've ever been fighting against is that fear of seems like an imposter and the -- >> rose: do you have that feeling? >> that's literally the only thing i've ever doing. i find the script. i have one burst of inspiration and when i first met you i don't know what you guys felt but i felt stoorld confident in the first meeting, yeah, i can do anything. almost immediately afterward, it's i have no idea what i'm talking about. i can't do anything, i'm just some random guy. and you do sort of get addicted to that feeling. i always love -- i loved the world. i love people who are interested in telling stories, and, i mean, it's like i want a job like this, with 18 hour days every

single day. no one's being paid anything. it's crazy. there is no other industry in which people are so invested in it. ( laughter ) >> rose: what's interesting about that is it's not just acting but in so many professions in my own as well, is people are doing good work and they know they're good but somehow think, you know, i'm not as good as they think i am. or they say if they only knew how much i don't know, right? >> yeah. luckily most people don't say i'm that great. >> a take, it would be that was really great. and he would look at us like we were foreigners. >> rose: so you're lying? yeah, you're a lier.

he didn't believe it. >> rose: why? yeah. but, i mean, yeah, what i love about working with guys like these guys, they can just charge up a scene so much it's as if you were playing music. the point is to get disoriented and lost. people spend so much time on setting up a take and so much discussion, it's impossible to stay at the same level of intensity. you do another take and it's just rolling the dice. hopefully something will come out. it feels like you're gambling, anything will happen and that's the fun part. >> we want to catch up to the movie always. we want to feel like we can -- that this is life or this is the story that you've created and you just want to get right up against it. in new york city, you get the

express train and the local train are running at the same speed and you can see in and all of a sudden someone will give you a finger or say what's up. but that moment there, that's kind of like us making a movie. we want to sidle up against the local train, the local express and capture. >> once you push that rock off the cliff and it keeps going, we just are riding that all the way down, and with the full speed and velocity, that's what we want. we want to bottle that energy up and throw it on to the screen. >> i do think there's a book that every aspiring actor should read. we have been reading online for promotional stuff. it's a book i found in the evidence section of the nypd called disguise techniques fool all the people some of the time. it's basically a book on acting. it's for con men. >> one penny on amazon.

i bought it for one penny when i saw it on this evidence web site. >> rose: title. disguise techniques fool all the people some of the time. it's how to con groups of people. >> rose: it beats any acting book you've ever seen. >> i think so. it's a deep book with a purpose. it's like try to sneak into this group and fool these people into getting you a job. it's a book for criminals. really is a book for criminals when there are books you can buy. >> rose: what's next for you? we're doing a movie in the diamond district. one day we'll get out of new york. it's called "uncut gems" and a thriller that takes place in the diamond district but it's more particularly from the bling culture and it's more of a shod and freud. it's similarly not but a much

funnier movie. it's a wild, beautiful thing and, you know, jonah hill will play the lead. >> rose: do you choose them? scorsese saw heaven knows what and said our names and we were ready to commit suicide. >> rose: right then. yeah. but it's been -- yeah, the text, we have been working on it seven years. >> rose: what's marty doing? executive producing it, yeah. >> rose: and you, what's next? i'm working with a french director, one of my old-time -- all-time favorites doing a sci-fi movie. >> rose: in france? in germany, cologne. the french call all the lead actors the hero. so romantic.

>> rose: i've always wanted to go to cologne. my father was in world war ii during the battle of the bulge andport of the people who recaptured cologne. i've never seen that. >> they didn't touch the cathedral, very important. >> rose: congratulations. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> rose: come back. we'll be right back. stay with us. >> rose: glen campbell, the country music legend and six time grammy winner died in nashville tuesday at 81. known for rhinestone cowboy, witch law lineman and galveston. he sold more than 45 million records and had 21 top 40 hits. tom petty said of campbell he had the beautiful tenor with the crystal clear guitar sounds. joining me is patrick doyle, senior editor of rolling stone, wrote his first feature for the

magazine on glen campbell in 2011. how do you remember him? >> extremely kind. i went to l.a. to his house right after he announced he had alzheimer's and would be going on his final tour. he was a nice southern man, you know, he's from arkansas and he made me feel right at home. >> rose: what made rhinestone cowboy so popular? >> i think it came after a dark period for him. he was a huge star in the late '60s. >> rose: he was such a star that in 1968 he outsold the beetles. >> yes, but that kind of went away for a while and he stopped having hits. rhinestone cowboy was sort of a comeback for him, his mission statement. that was one of the last songs when i was talking to him, he had trouble remembering that song, which was difficult to know, but he couldn't remember

was it radio or rodeo -- but he was -- his kids backed him on that final tour. so it was a very family oriented thing. >> rose: and what was his craft? when you recognize him for his musicality, what will you say about him? >> well, i will say very sentimental music, very sentimental music. it's music that didn't get a lot of credit at the time. tom petty, who you mentioned, was saying it was sort of uncool at the time to like glen campbell because it was more cool to be into the beatles but he would sneak off and listen to that music. he had a very clear tenor voice but he had all this emotion behind it, and you could hear the sadness in his voice, and it

was just -- a lot of strings ad flick music, but the songs were so good, he did a lot of songs by jim where web. wichita lineman. he was the perfect person to sing jimmy webb songs. he was a real talent that i hope will get more people to listen to him now. >> rose: thank you for coming. thank you, charlie. i really appreciate it. >> rose: here's a wit more about glen campbell. >> glen campbell has lost a very public, very courageous battle with the cruelest of diseases. he died today of alzheimer's surrounded by his family in nashville. he was 81. >> i'm glad to be here! i'm happy to be anywhere! >> glen campbell was country music's first crossover star. ♪ knowing that your door is always open ♪ >> that's a good song. i like a good song.

>> you never thought of yourself as a country singer. >> no. one of 12 children of an arkansas shear cropper, glen picked up a guitar at age 4. he was a natural. by the early '60s, he played his way to l.a. though he couldn't read music, he became one of the most sought after dpi tarrist in the city. you got a lot of session work. >> great, man. i bought a car. ( laughter ) one of an elite group of studio musicians known as the wrecking crew. in 1963 alone, campbell performed on nearly 600 cuts for other artists. ♪ wouldn't it be nice -- >> when brian wilson took off from the beach boys campbell filled in as he told me sunday morning in 2012. >> i had to go on a gig with them and play bass. ( laughter ) ♪ a little old lady from

pasadena ♪ >> rose: for more about this program and earlier episodes, visit us online at pbs.org and charlierose.com. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

♪ announcer: a kqed television production. sbrocco: and everybody say "opa!" together: opa!