>> charlie: welcome to the program. tonight we get begin with the event in virginia and president trump's response and talk to major garrett of cbs news. >> let's talk about steve bannon because he's in the biggest jeopardy he's been in the history of the trump white house. his stock has risen and fallen but that's been true of senior official who's held on and got back if the game when they've been benched and but i'm told by those who watch the white house from the outside meaning they're close advisors not inside and those within the white house itself steve bannon has fallen out of favor. >> charlie: we continue with the story on jon meacham and al sharpton of the national action network. >> i think it's a challenge and ongoing one because it goes to the moral credibility of the

person behind the desk in the oval office. franklin roosevelt said it's a place of moral leadership. we have to be in a position but as a country and global community where we believe what the president says. where you have some innate confidence that things are in fairly good hands and i think for a lot of people that level of confidence started low and it's gotten to be almost non existent. >> charlie: we conclude with the payer of louisville, kentucky greg fischer. >> if you can't be authentic and the person you are what good is it holding the office. these offices are honors to hold. if you ever forget that you ought to leave. our job is to lift people up and provide aspirations for people to be better and to put in the plans and structures and processes to do that. but that's the job of us to lead to make our cities, country and

state a better place we do that together. >> charlie: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this is charlie rose. >> charlie: we begin with president trump's condemnation of hate groups including white supremacists and neo-nazis.

it's comment followed by criticism that he didn't denounce what happened on saturday. >> as i said on saturday, we condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence. it has no place in america. we must love each other, show affection for each other and unite together in condemnation of hatred, bigotry and violence and rediscover the bonds of loyalty that bring us together as americans. racism is evil. and those who cause violence in its name are thugs and including the kkk, white supremacists and those repugnant to everything we hold dear as americans.

>> charlie: one woman was killed and nine others injured after a car ran into a crowd of protesters at the rally. the justice department is opening up a civil rights investigation and the fallout on the president's comments has led to the speculation about steve bannon his chief political adviser. we have chief white house correspondent major garrett. looking at this from the white house perspective what will be the fallout, if any, to the status of those who work as principle advisors to the president? >> let's talk about steve bannon, charlie. he's been in the biggest jeopardy he's been in in the white house. his stock has risen and fallen but that's been true of officials who have held on and put back in the game after they've been banished but i'm being told who are close

advisors but not inside the building and those within the white house itself steve bannon has fallen out of favor. part is due to the arrival of the chief of staff, john kelly, who promised the president upon his arrival he'd bring order and discipline to the white house and an aspect would be to do whatever he could to eliminate the crossfire that goes on within the west wing. the rivalries and fighting and back fighting. and for a lot of reasons steve bannon of late has been blamed for leaking or carrying out efforts to undermine other significant officials within the white house. most conspicuously h.r. mcmaster. i'm told upon his arrival chief of staff kelly wanted to strengthen the position of h.r. mcmaster as the national security adviser and in so doing it is quite clear to me that steve bannon's stock has fallen. one well-placed white house source told me bannon could be

gone as soon as the end of this week. now, i've covered a lot of intrigue with this white house, charlie, i must tell you nothing is definitive until the president decides but the arrow for steve bannon is never been lower and his longevity in this white house never been more in question. >> charlie: but what's interesting about what you've said it the he may be fire sooner than we imagine, maybe this week, is the idea he's be fired because of his opposition to h.r. mcmaster rather than his support for breitbart or for certain populist positions that helped the president get elected. >> well, they kind of come together in a small sense, charlie. those who are part of the breitbart news atmosphere or echo chamber had been among those working most aggressively

against the interest of h.r. mcmaster. today john mccain who let's be honest doesn't drive a lot of policy at the white house but is nevertheless a significant voice said the attacks on h.r. mcmaster have to stop. they were interpreted as a way of saying mcmaster is probably safer and the source of those attacks which everyone in the white house believesixi1 set i motion by steve bannon is more vulnerable and that was mccain positioning himself against something he think may happen, the strengthening of mcmaster and possible dismissal of bannon. >> charlie: who supports steve bannon at this point inside the white house? >> it's hard to know. the president has a long standing personal relationship with steve bannon and they have shared a general sense of political ideology around the national economic messages and that's something the president prided himself on that bannon

sided with him and nevertheless they're simpatico there. probably the biggest backer of steve bannon and ones who may be more influential are the mercer family which is a significant donor to republican causes generally and has been a significant donor to president trump and recently made a large contribution to a super pac going after republicans critical of president trump or less enthusiastic on the trump agenda. they can play a bigger role outside the white house as anyone inside the building. >> charlie: if the president fires steve bannon knowing who has supported him in the past. what's the risk to the president if he is outside and in a position to criticize the president? >> that's the same question

raised about reince priebus would he do more harm outside than working on behalf of the agenda or how effectively or ineffectively he did so and the same question of steve bannon is it better to have him in or out. if the president makes this decision will show his understanding of what the white house needs to run and what it means to have a functioning well-o white house and if that's what president trump values more than anything else he'll give kelly this latitude to not only create a white house that works but that communicates more correctly and operates and since he came in with historically low approval rate president trump's base has been

politics. his supporters are more ambivalent than when the presidency started and a lot of people have gotten off the trump train. part of the mission of this new chief of staff is to improve that. >> charlie: how fierce is steve bannon fighting back to keep his job? >> that's a good question, charlie. i don't have insider tactical hour-by-hour on this but i know steve bannon is a survivor. reince priebus is a survivor. more than many expected. his shelf life start to diminish in early february and he lasted longer than that. as i said before with all palace

i i intrigue stories there's ways to remind him of allegiances from the past. a lot of this will boil down to whatever it is steve bannon can bring to the table on his behalf against those who he has clashed with on the economic team and what is the overall advice and how seriously is it taken from general kelly to the president of the united states. >> charlie: and finally this question, who influenced, if anyone, for the president that iginal instinct to the tragedy in charlottesville? >> well, this is part and parcel of candidate trump's approach to this issue and as president. he doesn't like to wade into the deep specifics about anything root causes of right wing, arch conservative rhetoric or violence. he never has and has always kept those issues, if he can do it,

at arm's length. those who know him is because he doesn't want to brand one group outside the mainstream and have to adjudicate another at another time. he wants to speak broadly about being against violence and all forms of bigotry and all forms of organized hatred. not getting into whether it's on the right or left side of the spectrum. there are those within the president's own set of advisors and the president himself who believe there are nefarious groups less than hospitable on the left and sometimes resort to violence. the president doesn't like to adjudicate this. clearly the politics of this registered in ways that were first identified and publicly given voice by his daughter, ivanka and that was the first sign to all of us when she put out her tweet denouncing the

right wing and supremacist and white supremacist groups you knew overtime it would move its way to the president. it had to go to the vice president travelling overseas and the attorney general and the president. the evolution began with ivanka the weather vain handling the issues he would keep at arm's length. >> charlie: thank you so much. we'll be right back. stay with us. we continuing continuing we continue looking at the event ofs this weekend with jon meacham and al sharpton. i'm pleased to have you both. jon, how did you see the action as a fellow southerner.

with the tradition there and the education and all of that. >> absolutely. it was a tragic example of a perennial american tradition of hate and alienation. i think it's been report they started finding blue dots in red states so the drama is more pronounced. it's an old tactic they've taken from dr. king. we are living in 2017 in which

the president of the united states cannot find it in his heart or mind and one would hope he could find it in both places to condemn the darkest part of the american psyche. until we grapple with that we'll have a continually frustrating conversation about these important issues. >> charlie: are you suggesting he can't find it in his heart because he's a racist or because he's blinded by political strategy? >> i think the best thing you can say about the president's reaction on saturday is it was morally ambiguous. that's the best thing you can say. he governs to his base. that's clearly part of his political strategy and his base includes people not entirely people but includes people like david duke who said this weekend

that we voted for trump to take our country back. that's what we have to do. that's what david duke said and the president before he was the president cond -- couldn't find it in his heart or mind to remove himself from that vitriol. >> i think he is right. when you look at the fact that many of those in the hate rally had on trump caps and caps on saying make america great. it was uincumbent upon the president saying don't identify me with this. bob dole told hate groups i don't want your support. the exit sign is this for you at the convention center. this president during the campaign would not denounce david duke for days acting like he didn't hear the question or

was ducking that. he is never taking them on. it took 48 hours after a young lady was killed for him to denounce these people that engage in terrorism by name. he denounced the ceo of merck for leaving his economic council in less than an hour. 48 hours and a young american woman is dead by a self-described white supremist group. >> charlie: america has changed in many ways. how has it not changed?

>> we made strides in many areas just the social fabric in one generation. my mother was from alabama and she couldn't vote in her hometown until she was 39 and looked to her son to run for president and lived to see an african american president. we should never underestimate that and the price paid for that we see ceos of major corporation and things that are astonishing that my mother and grandparents would never have imagined but we still see the same economic gap. we're still doubly unemployed to whites. we still have about 25% to 40% in terms of when you measure education from the basics in educational opportunities in health care disparities. the life the majority of african americans is still at the same percentage point differences in

major ways you would count and try and record the data as it was many years ago. it's just because society's moved up it may look better but the gap is still there. i think that we've not been honest about that and i think in the euphoria of the election of president obama we started to hearing people that are supposedly intelligent saying we're in a post racial generation. we never were. we were able to achieve some things despite the racism and hate. not because they disappeared but because others persevered, black and white. i think many of us are now beginning to see again because you don't have the hopeful picture of a president obama who was inclusive and others.

even george bush and i marched on a welfare reform bill but none of them would not address something as blatant as we've seen it and take two days. >> charlie: is it too little, too late? >> he did not address it was domestic terrorism or disassociate himself from them. he had the responsibility to do that. he had the more than obligation to do that as the president of the united states. the easy way out is is the call of a name. he has shown a real tendency to

use methods and the only race issue i've ever known he comes from queens right next to howard beach and 8 6th. the only race-related case is when he took out ads he paid for in new york papers calling about the latino boys in the central park rape and they were found innocent and said after the city shouldn't have settled. the only racial contribution was to go against young black and latino young men found to be innocent and he still wouldn't change.

>> charlie: jon, do you think we'll look back on it and see a moment of change. do you think we'll look at an inflection point? >> i hope so. i'm skeptical of that. i think it's part of the tragic pattern. i think it begins in our native region in the aftermath where you had the founding of the klan on christmas eve not quite eight months after general lee you had the beginning of white resistance. the fires of hate burn the brightest in times of economic and social stress. reconstruction with that kind of moment. the institution of jim crow into the 1890s. the klan put 50,000 people in washington in the middle of the

1920s partly because of fears of immigrants coming out of the bolshevik revolution and antisemnism and the fear of old time religion and the cold war anxieties and the isolation of charles lindbergh and the early 1960s. you had the anti-government sentiment of the mid 1990s when the innocent people including the children the daycare center died when timothy mcveigh bombed the federal building. have you these moments when some part of the white population frankly feels alienated and di dispossessed and there's the changing dem og -- demography

and that's part of the reason donald trump is president only 19% of people trust the federal government and we're $70,000 off for a family of four to have a middle-class life. those are the numbers that produced this. on the racial question and with all respect to my friend it's not a dog whistle if everybody can hear it. that's where we're at now. >> he's right. i think a lot of people heard it and all the people in the media were acting as if they didn't understand what we're hearing. when you have people feeling alienated and have you a candidate that blames the others that started his political career by raising it's them, it's somebody else and goes from

there to mexicans and islam phobia it's the them. it's not your fault. when globalizatio globalization has cast more jobs than immigration but there's in plan and he didn't run on that. this kind of comforting people with bigotry is dangerous and i would hope it's in this period but we don't know that it is, we're trying to do what we can. and i'm wrestling with you have to deal openly and say i'm not going to deal with those element and violence. i've had to deal with that. i'm not staying a lot of things a lot of public figures have had to struggle with. he knows better. everyone of us knows better and he out to -- ought to stand up

for the good of the country. >> charlie: you're saying he doesn't stand up because of his political ambition or at heart a racist? >> i don't know the reason. i know the actual behavior. i don't want to psychoanalyze him but i know what i see and whatever the motive the results are the same. >> charlie: is this simply after slavery we never healed? all the impact of slavery? >> it's the american dilemma. there's two american indian removal and slavery. it's wrapped up in the fabric of the country.

read the constitution. when they wrote all men are created equal there was a narrow definition. the history of the country, however slow or bloody we have tried to become a more perfect union. it's not something we'll achieve on this side of paradise but we've become stronger the wider we opened our arms. it's easier to say they're fringe groups and overreacting. i disagree. i think you have these moments where the extremes, the hate, the people who are giving those solutes after trying to free the world of that regime and there's

an enormous unease in the country and it's easier to point your finger and say an immigrant is responsible for a black person is responsible and it's not me. i would recommend to everybody read -- i'm sure a lot of folks have richard hofstetter's essay it was a lecture in 1963 and the cover of willie morris' harper in 1964. it won't take long and you'll see from to charlottesville, virginia this week have you moments where the dispossessed want to blame someone else. the difference we have now is the president himself is one of the people doing the pointing. >> charlie: does it matter -- you mentioned thomas jefferson

and he had slaves. >> had slaves and children with slaves. >> charlie: should they take down the memorial? >> people need to understand people that were slaves and had forced sex -- my great grandfather was a slave in south carolina owned by the family arestrom thurman was one of them. this is personal. this is not a removed discussion. our families were victims of this. >> charlie: everybody associated with slavery in terms of a public monument to them? >> when you look at the fact that public monuments are supported by public funds you're

asking me to subsidize the insult to my family and the public should not be paying to uphold somebody with that kind of background. have you private museums and other things you may want to do that but that's not the issue here, charlie. we're talking about here an open display of bigotry announced and overand over again and followed up by violence and terrorism and the president won't speak to it. august 28, 1963 dr. king's speech, i have a dream, he stood and talked about lincoln's promise. two weeks from monday we're bringing white, black, muslim clergy to washington and to

think how dr. king just dreamed and went to barack obama and two weeks before we recognize that day we see charlottesville and a president that has laryngitis for two days on that issue? it's something that many of us are going to stand aggressively and non violently. >> charlie: the attorney general announced today they'll be a rigorous investigation. i asked if it will be a high priority and get to the bottom and the attorney general is an associate of the president you're criticizing. >> an associate of the president we'll see what he does but it's the same attorney general we met with five civil rights organizations that said he would withdraw from the voting rights lawsuit in texas we considered bias and the same attorney general that wanted to stop the dissent decree in baltimore that had been already agreed to by

the justice department and the same attorney general talking about reversing affirmative action. if we're not applauding had him is because of the positions he's taken but we'll wait and see. >> charlie: and we know north korea's a national security challenge. is this a national challenge? >> i think it's a challenge and ongoing one because it goes to the moral credibility of the person behind the desk in the oval office. franklin roosevelt said the presidency is preeminently a place of moral leadership. we have to be in a position as a country and global community where we believe what the president says. where you have some innate confidence that things are in fairly good hands. and i think for a lot of people that level of confidence started low and it's gotten to be almost non existent. i think it's an exacerbating

moment. it's yet another example of a place where the president had an opportunity, tragically, because there's a woman who is dead, two state troopers who are dead because of this attempt to put neo-naziism back in the front of the american imagination. because of that there are people who are dead. and this is a moment where a president could have spoken beyond the 34%, 36% of people who approve of his job. >> charlie: you said they'll judge him harshly. history will judge the president's word play and sooner i think than he realizes. what do you mean by that? >> i think this is not about we're going to look back in a certain number of years and realize this man was not

commensurate with the challenge and dignity of his office. i think it's unfolding in real time. i think this was a man would was disqualified, in my view, from the office by alluding second amendment advocates should take care of hillary clinton. i think he has encouraged violence. i think he has in a way tacitly and perhaps even explicitly enabled very dark impulse. >> charlie: do you think this president will last four years? >> i don't know if he will. i think that we are very close to seeing a president just implode. >> charlie: what's implode mean? >> politically implode in the sense that losing the confidence of many americans that not only can he be decent. the president that responds off

the hip, quickly to everything couldn't find his voice with a young woman dies with a victimization of a terrorist act. i think a lot of people are saying it's not only moral it's just decent. how do you not respond to that? how do you not pick up the phone and call her family and say americans are with you? how do you have to be pushed into saying the most basic and even then most removed from any personal kind of identity with what the situation could have been even indirectly encouraged by your actions or lack of them. i don't know how you do that and maintain the confidence of the american public including many of them that voted for you. >> charlie: thank you for coming. >> thank you. >> charlie: thank you, jon. we'll be back. stay with us.

greg fischer is here the democratic mayor of louisville, kentucky. he's tried to reform it to an urban laboratory and create jobs and make louisville a more compassionate city and added jobs and businesses and 23 hotels. his belief that data and technology can improve people's lives has brought to his city projects like google fiber and c-net smart apartment. politico called him the most innovative mayor. welcome. how have you done it? and then we'll talk to charlottesville. all i suggested there does this come from your background as an entrepreneur? why you? why louisville? >> well, you combine the head with the heart and great things happen and that's what great businesses do.

they appeal to the best in people. they train people and set a vision and you guide the city through wonderful values. our values are life long learning and health and compassion and you have a strong economic development strategy focussed on the unique strengths of the city and everybody has to feel like they're along for an economic positive ride. you pull that together and work 22 hours a day and things happen. >> charlie: at the same time a lot of us hear what you said and think to ourselves what's he mean by compassion? >> it's been one of the most interested journey and more people have interested in that than anything we do. the notion the values, life long learning, easy. health, easy, physical, mental and environmental health. but i looked for a third value and that's where compassion came from. we define as respect for each and every one of our citizens so

they're human potential is flourishing. the metaphor of people walking around like the sun. we're born win kindness and love and compassion. that should be the number one job of a leader. us as individual leaders to call out the best in people for some reason we don't do that. it calls into notion what is power. too often in america we say power is money and strength. how about power being compassion and joy and the ability to bring out the best up people. when do you that around a plan you can build a great city and state and country. >> charlie: speaking of the country, tell me your reaction to the events in louisville and the president's first reaction? >> part of the media today you see everything in real time and your brain processing this and

saying is this really going on in our country? swift condemnation should come out for the racism. >> charlie: it should be instinctive. >> that's a lay-up. tat -- that's an easy one. and with the removal of a statue they rose to the occasion. rising to the occasion doesn't have a party label to it. it comes from the heart and you knee you know when you need to go out. if it's a crisis or trouble you go to it and address the issue straight on. >> charlie: but it didn't happen. do you think this was simply looking at his political base or part of his political base or -- i'm talking about the first instinct? you think somebody was lobbying saying have you to be careful and balanced because some that

helped him get elected will take finance. -- offense. >> you go with where your heart and head tells you to go and let your chips fall where they may. if you can't be authentic what's good holding the office. they're honors to hold. if you forget that you ought to leave. our job is to lift people up and provide aspiration for people to be better than what they can be and put in the plans and structures and processes to do that but that's the job of us to lead to make our cities, state and country a better place and we do that together. >> charlie: did the president in a sense go a long way in terms of clearing the record for him? >> you see people attacking him on both sides. the good news is we learn and we come back and say maybe i should have been more forceful. people wanted to hear that on

day one. people wanted that and we move forward. i don't watch the lips, i watch the actions. that's really what's critical and how people judge us. >> what should the president show us by action? >> he can do a lot of things. you can go to the scene. can use more words. you can stand with a diverse group of partners. the reality is our country is extraordinarily diverse and the people that want to harken to a day gone by, translation, white men running everything. that's gone. this pluralism is a strength. embrace it. too many people feel they're losing something with the evolution of our country. so much is caught up in the bigger picture which say rapidly changing global world fueled by technology that has outpaced

many people's ability to compete. heard that concern from our urban areas for generations. maybe centuries and you saw that in the riots in our streets post feguson. it doesn't make sense for people to tear down their cities but when they're so frustrated they see no hope that's what happens. we saw this in the last presidency well. they want a connection to a positive hopeful future. >> charlie: and they think what is not giving that to them? technology? is it about technology stealing their jobs? >> and about nativism? >> charlie: what is that? >> the other. they're taking my job. they don't look like me and they don't worship the same religion. you don't build a team that way. >> charlie: can you build a

successful political campaign that way? >> i don't believe you can for the long term. the long term to me is the crase of more opportunity for everybody in the country to benefit. the long term is speaking the truth together to adjust their lives and their family's lives to be in a position to prosper and compete. sometimes people don't want to hear that but you need to tell the truth and provide resource and training so something can reorient themselves and their family so the future. >> charlie: why is this country had such a hard time dealing with race? >> we've never addressed it head on. you go back to abraham lincoln and the actions he took. that's what a leader does. then we've seen waves of movement and civil rights and progress and tearing it back

again. what i found in my job, my found has made me more socially progressive on one hand and more appreciative of law enforcement on the other hand. the ability to try to understand especially as a white man what minorities go through every day in our country you have to try. when you talked about issues about privilege and the privilege you have from having a great family. that can come from any race or the privilege of being white in our country. some caucasians recoil from that and say i've worked hard for everything. that's true but you haven't walked around looking different and there's no question it's harder if you're a person of color. you can succeed but it's harder.

>> charlie: is it affirmative action? is it what? >> first off having a lens of equity and access so you can say the same opportunities are here for everybody. take for instance when kids go to kindergarten. an advantaged family's child will be three years ahead of a disadvantaged family's child. i mean lack of access and opportunity. that can come regardless of color. there's more low income white people than black people. our collective job if you believe we're all interconnected and dependent is to make sure the kids have as many resources as they can so they show up about the same. i say will you agree with me morally or from an economically developed perspective or from a public safety standpoint. because we need a safe society

and riots are bad for business. you want peace in the village where everybody's moving forward. >> charlie: when you look at a kid who goes to kindergarten and if he's behind when they start they simply fall behind. >> that's right. and american society today is willing to invest in those people afterwards with incarceration and all types of social services. we need to redesign our systems so we're investing on the front end so they show up ready to learn and be a productive citizen. when you look at the big work we have to do country ride we have to redesign our education system and housing system and immigration system. we're getting results that our education system is designed to produced. it wasn't designed maliciously butin the era when that were traditional families. now we have a rapidly changing

global world and traditional families. shouldn't we redesign the system. if we were a business we'd be out of business and with the disparity and lack of opportunity in our country suggest the system's broken. we need a functioning washington, d.c. >> charlie: it's broken. what would due to fix it? >> there's practical aspects. over 10 million people in this country are not here for legal documents. it's impractical to ship all these folks back. we have to make sure our borders are secure. we have to start that. that's something we all agree on but we have an issue we have to deal with now. face that reality and look at what helps our country. we are an aging country without immigrants. we're not a growing country without immigrants. we're not as entrepreneurial

without immigrants. my wife's parents fled their country after world war ii. there's an m.d., ph.d. and masters. don't away -- we want those people our country? we should be embracing that. education is the great leveller. going back to my in-laws. they never bough an automobile to put every dime they had in their kids' education. >> charlie: and education lifted them up on their own. >> and the worked hard so the opportunities are there. >> charlie: in terms of jobs, this president constantly talks about jobs. are we creating jobs. the job numbers are good. the gdp is good. what's happening to the economy in louisville? >> we've had great m0 we have 30,000 open jobs now so if anybody wants to move to

louisville a great place to live and we have plenty of open jobs. >> charlie: you don't have enough people to fill the jobs. >> our economy's growing faster than the ability to fill and train up the jobs. >> charlie: it's a nice place to live. >> good quality of life. some say the best quality of life in the country. we have to make sure people are ready for the jobs and as the value of life long learning and you're always ready for a 21st century of career. the issue is the hollowing out of jobs -- >> charlie: hollowing out means what? >> not as many. fewer people are getting richer and a lot of people getting poorer. when we had a strong middle class you had more and more positive energy in our country. >> charlie: the opposite is happening in emerging countries and markets. it is the fact they're creating a middle class and the creation of a middle class creates demand

and therefore economic growth. >> 70% of our economy is driven by retail. if we don't have people making living wages our economy is going to have difficulty growing. plus, it leads to the unrest in the streets and it limits people's human potential and gets back to our value of compassion. so how do we look at our country and city. we're focussing on jobs, innovation and globalization. if you're company's focussed in that area you'll be competitive because the goal is not just the number of jobs to produce it's also the type of jobs. so we're trying to increase our median wage so people have good wages. >> charlie: you're a politician. characterize the politician in the white house? how do you look at this person? >> first i'd like to say i'm a public servant not a politician. >> charlie: when i hear you say that the only thing i recall is i think politics say noble profession. people like you who have success

in business came to politics. i assume you didn't need the money but public service is and it comes from politicians. yes, there's corruption and a thirst for power that leads to all kinds of acts to get power that are questionable and then it's how you handle power that determines your life of politician. >> i agree with that. i got fed up with things as a citizen. i always told my kids if you're complaining about something do something about it and they said does that mean you're running for office, dad and i said i guess so. >> charlie: so you chose mayor as the first office? >> i ran for the united states senate and didn't know what i doing and ran a four-month campaign and came in second. and i've always done community service work. i ran for mayor. it's a great honor to be a mayor.

you have to have the head of an executive officer and heart of a social worker. >> charlie: you're closest to where problems are. >> we go to congress as mayors and say we're here to help. sometimes you get so removed from reality you don't see the issues taking place. for instance, when the health care debate was going on the amount of pain inflicted on cities and states if affordable care act was repealed is something mayors of america kept hammering home, remember our people, understand what you'll do to them, think about the opioid crisis taking place in our country. we need more help not less help. here's the reality from a guy that's a man who happens to be a business person, 18% of our country's gdp is spent on health care. what's the next country doing? germany, 10%. united kingdom, 8%.

how can they cover everybody in their country and their people live longer in half the amount we're spending. >> charlie: what's the answer? >> we night -- need to look at the pharmaceuticals or preventative health? there's an answer there. sometimes we think we can't learn but this say big system change, i get that. but people designed these systems. people can change them as well. while d.c.'s caught up in ideology and saying here's the shiny object. change the system so cost are in line so everybody can get more and better coverage. the numbers are there to do it. >> charlie: what changes the opioid crisis. it's being called a national crisis. >> it's ravaging our rural areas and our cities as well.

the unfortunate thing is how do you cure this? one addict at a time and recovery is hard. very hard. the last thing we want to do is put this issue in the shadows. we need to remove the stigma of addiction and mental illness to make sure treatment is readily available. let me tell you one thing we're doing in louisville. when someone comes to the jails and there's dual diagnosis and mental health and addiction of some kind. when they come in we help them with their treatment we sign them up for medicaid so when they leave jail they continue treatment not just go out on the streets. you can provide housing and 24/7 counseling a year. it's morally right and less expensive. >> charlie: thank you for

coming. >> thank you, charlie. >> charlie: thank you for joining us. see you next time. rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org captioning sponsored by rose communications

>> rose: funding for "charlie rose" has been provided by: >> and by bloomberg, a provider of multimedia news and information services worldwide. >> you're watching pbs.

>> announcer: the following kqed production was produced in high definition. ♪ >> must have soup. >> the pancake is to die for! [ laughter ] >> it was a gut bomb, but i liked it. in private moments about the food i had. >> i didn't like it. >> you didn't like it? oh, okay. >> dining here makes me feel rich. >> and what about dessert? pecan pie? sweet-potato pie?