good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. with the emmy awards just days away, tonight we'll talk to one of its biggest winners of all time, actor ed asner, well known for his role as lou grant on "the mary tyler moore show" and subsequent spinoff "lou grant." mr. asner's the winner of seven acting emmy awards and has been nominated a total of 20 times. tonight he'll reflect on his career, a name he made for himself as a political activist and so much more. we're glad you've joined us. a conversation with television legend ed asner coming up in just a moment. ♪

♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. >> pleased to welcome ed asner back to this program, the legendary tv star and longtime political activist has so many distinctions to his name, including that of being a seven-time emmy award-winner. ed asner, always, sir, an honor to have you on this program. >> oh, my god, what a -- i want to put you in my pocket. >> get out of here. >> yeah, carry you wherever i

go. >> get out of here. as many times as i've been honored to have you on this program, it wasn't until this conversation, probably because we're so close to the emmy awards, that i did a little research to see how many times you had won and how many times you've been nominated. 20 emmy nominations? >> well, i -- >> seven statues? >> mm-hmm. mm-hmm. i got a few damaged by the earthquake. >> yeah. >> so i may have actually ten. >> they broke into pieces. [ laughter ] but that is -- let me ask you to set your modesty aside, i mean, that's a lot! >> what modesty? >> that's a lot of accolade. >> oh, yeah. i -- but i haven't gotten any in a long -- statues, that is -- >> yeah, yeah. >> -- in a long time. [ laughter ] >> y'all are slow on that. y'all are a little slow on that. yeah, yeah, yeah. >> i think that maybe my time has passed.

they don't -- who was it? oh, some movie -- i wonder if they remember me. >> yeah, yeah. >> i studied with adler for a while, and quit it because i didn't like it. then a few years later, she started classes out here. and josette banzet who was giving a party for her, said i've been with ed asner and stella said, ed asner, i wonder if he remembers me. stella adler. >> adler, yeah, exactly. i wonder if he'd remember me. let me ask you about lou grant, because you won an emmy as lou grant on "mary tyler moore." you won an emmy as lou grant on "lou grant," in fact, the only person to win an emmy for the same character in two different series. >> that is true. >> that's a big deal, man. that's a big deal. >> yeah.

>> all right. what would lou grant be saying about the state of media today and about donald trump's ongoing attacks on the media? what would lou grant have to say about all of this? >> well, he'd look at all the scandal that erupted out of fox. it's amazing that it was all bared at so many levels, and he would be shocked and offended and ticked off that journalism had been so raked over the coals by these activities, and he would say that's not journalism, that's scapegrittedness, that's warmongering, that's lewdness, lewdness! then he'd look at the papers, papers, which when i started

were in trouble. i was in high school, and i was an editor in high school. and one day i'm at my desk and my beloved professor walked by, and he said, are you thinking of journalism as a career? i said, yeah, i am. he said, i wouldn't. [ laughter ] and i said -- this is 1947. >> and your professor, no less. >> yeah, yeah. and i said, why not? can't make a living. 1947. and it sure as hell hasn't gotten better since. >> yeah. yeah. what do you make of -- that's lou grant. what do you make of the attacks that the media has been under by the president? >> well, i am -- i still boil at the fact that we created an iraq war because of newspapers, that -- i mean, i was part of a million people who marched

against it, but the fact that the media can, including my paper of record, "the new york times," which published a lot of stories which helped allow that invasion. so i don't know where print journalism is now. "the new york times" has certainly improved, at least over that period. i don't know where the "wall street journal" is. i don't read it. but smaller papers are folding everywhere. i mean, the "new york post," which used to be a liberal bastian when i was in new york is now a right-wing bastian. so, anybody's game, anybody's guess. >> do you think be that they had -- your critique of the "the new york times" is spot on. they did -- they were out of bounds, let's put it that way. >> yeah, and they never

apologized. >> do you think they had -- the media writ large had some of this coming, some of this harsh critique, they deserve some of it? >> oh, god, yes. yes. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> but journalism doesn't need that. >> yeah. >> no, we -- and you can't afford it in 1947 and you can afford it less now. so, where are you now? you're a runner for a news service, a wire service, this, that, but that ain't journalism. how are you going to develop writers like what they did in the past, great writers? >> yeah. at the time that you were doing -- i've heard so many people over the years thank mary tyler moore, particularly when she passed away, thank mary tyler moore, all these references to lou grant. they say it about you already, they'll be saying it years from now, giving you credit for really inspiring a generation of people, opening the eyes of

people, even through a comedy and a drama. were you aware then that you were having that sort of impact on a future generation of journalists? >> no. i was just trying to do the job. >> yeah. >> but -- and i'm always -- whenever a young journalist or even a middle-aged journalist says to me, i was influenced by you to go into journalism, i said, don't blame me! [ laughter ] please! >> yeah. >> i run out of the room. >> right. >> because i condemned him to a life of pinury. >> but you've inspired a lot of people, though. that's what i was trying say. >> thank you. >> yeah, yeah. >> i hope that they end up feeling accomplished. >> yeah, yeah. when i say that you've inspired a lot of people by a number of the roles you played, lou grant being one of them, obviously, you didn't get into the acting business, you didn't become a thespian because you wanted to inspire people. it's what you were born to do.

it's your gift, it's your calling, it's your vocation. but what was the reason? why did you accept the call to pursue this as a profession? >> i was as lost as any kid 17, 18 is. what do i do? where do i go? i was thinking of political science and i had a cousin at the university of chicago was in political science. i thought, well, i might want to go there just to see. and without any actual knowledge of pursuing how, the straight course. most of us aren't. so i went to the university of chicago, and i discovered the other world, another world, a world of classics and a world of intense -- i mean, it was called the commie university in those days. >> mm-hmm. >> you had to turn out some of

the biggest republican thinkers you could ever lay a stick on. so, it's interesting that that was the combination. i ache for journalism. some of the greatest writers -- dusty heskey wrote 100-word stories for the paper. that's where he got his training, and then wrote a 1,000-page novel, which i loved. twain wrote for newspapers. they all wrote for newspapers. and if we don't nourish newspapers and sell them out to the wire services and to this one and to that one, we will lose writing as an art form in our lives. >> yeah. speaking of writing, i hear, and

i've kind of seen the cover of it already, you have a book coming out, like in a few weeks that you have written with ed weinberger. >> ed weinberger, yeah. >> speaking of a great writer. >> oh, gosh. he's got such great shows under his thumb -- >> absolutely. >> or had them. but i do his one-man show, which is called "a man and his prostate." >> which i want to talk about. >> yeah. and we all have one, you know? >> men. you brought yours with you? >> yeah. mine's in good shape. want to see it? >> no, no, no, no. yeah. >> i take good care of my prostate. it's like a puppy, you know. >> yeah, yeah, yeah. >> yeah. [ laughter ] but i do ed's show called "a man and his prostate," and it's a delightful show. >> tell me about the show. tell me about the show. >> well, it's got all the gags and laughs you want. >> right. >> and at the same time, it

transmits the information to men, if they're listening, about prostate cancer and how to fight against it and to prepare for it and to be aware of it. every 16 minutes a man dies of prostate cancer. 16 minutes! >> it's worse for black men than any other race. i know this. i get mine checked. >> because the majority of black men don't get examined. >> don't get it checked, exactly. >> and he condemned the doctors who examined him here. his was discovered in italy by the foremost urologist. it happened to be that he fell into the hands of. but it -- i mean, medicine in this country with all of its great advances still sucks. >> and then they're attacking obamacare.

[ laughter ] >> yeah. yeah. and it's like an impregnable fortress. they just can't -- [ laughter ] they can't -- >> i hadn't thought of it that way, but that's a funny line, though. you're right, they have tried everything they can to take that thing under, man. >> and they look like fools. >> yeah. >> even to the right wing, i'm sure they look like fools. >> they have not stopped trying, though. >> no, no. >> yeah, yeah. >> it's like the civil war never ended. they've expanded the enslaved to include homosexuals and other -- >> immigrants. >> immigrants. mexicans. oh, baja, mexico, yeah. i mean, how disgusting. how disgusting. and yet, they fill our lives, they pick our peaches, and we would be nonexistent. my god.

growing up, my two best friends were mexicans. and i loved them. and then when i was in the second grade, we moved into white-bred village. >> white-bred village? >> that's what i called it. >> oh, okay. >> yeah. [ laughter ] you've been there, haven't you? >> and how was it like living in white-bred village? >> it was very white. >> yeah. and how was the bread? >> no black citizens in that neighborhood. >> yeah. >> yeah. and i was so delighted years later, i went back to my home to see what it looked like, and a black family lived in it, and it looked better than when i lived in it, and i was so happy. so happy. yeah. >> i'm glad you told that story, because that's a happy note. but i've been listening, obviously, this conversation,

and so much of what i hear is an america that you've lived in for all these years that in many ways, ed, has made so much progress, and yet, there are so many other things about it that to your own mind, your own phraseology, disgusts you. how do you process that at this age in life where you thought, i would assume that you thought that things would not be dharks there wouldn't be so many things disgusting you about america as there are now? how do you process that? >> well, it ticks me off, man. and if i was doing comedic charactaricature caricatures, i'd be like this. i said, when does it stop? when can we fight the final battle? you never fight the final battle, i suppose. you'll always have a battle. and now it seems like the 87 years i've lived, and those battles we fought, they almost seem like wasted effort.

wasted effort, because they turn around and they find a new cue, a new curve to specialize in, a knoblauch and looking for voting irregularities. and you know, when i was growing up, i come from kansas, so it was mostly republican, except for kansas city, kansas, where i lived. and, but you didn't hate those republicans. they were -- they were sound, conservative republicans. >> or moderates, which don't exist anymore these days. >> right, right, right. >> yeah. >> and now, i mean, you read anybody, republicans are a despised breed from my side. how can you be? how can you be? and they've taken a great and noble party and they've -- they've poured it into the

sewer. >> and yet, with all of that disappointment, all of that disgust -- >> and the democrats. >> before i go further, let's talk about that for a second. >> a lot of weak reads. i mean, we lean on the few -- >> right. >> -- and the rest are accommoda accommodated. >> so how do we find a way out of this mess if you're disgusted with the republicans and the democrats are a bunch of accommodators? what are we going to do? >> i wish i knew. i wish i knew. it's like the civil war never ended. >> yeah. >> i mean, that demarcation line between the two groups, the people who voted for trump, as many as they did, i mean, they didn't know that it was the

republicans that was ticking them off. he's their secret weapon. he's their ability to show how tough they are. but they picked the wrong party. they picked the wrong guy. we're -- i mean, i'm also doing a book with weinberger called "the grouchy historian." >> mm-hmm. i love that title, by the way. "the grouchy historian." >> and then it's coming out october 10th. in which we talk about how this country is founded, why it was founded, who founded it, and it's primarily a response, an attack against the originalists, the framers, and who they were and how they were and what they really thought. i mean, to have a supreme court justice who poisoned the whole

supreme court by talking about the originalists. he knew what james madison was thinking. he knew what alexander hamilton was thinking. just listen to him. he inhabited their souls. he dug down and infested their ashes. and he came up with the answers so that skicitizens united, corporations can spend billions and be acting like one person. people can have guns all over the place because that's what the second amendment gives them. ah, god. >> i guess you won't be selling this book on fox news. >> what? >> you won't be selling this book on fox news? >> well, the way fox news has been cashiering so many of their people, they might have room for me. [ laughter ] >> in the midst of all of this disappointment and disgust about

what's wrong with our country, you still find something -- >> hey, let me give you the bottom line. >> give me the bottom line. >> we've been around for about 250 years, 250 years. now, this is my point i use all over. 250 years we've been around. only 21 of those years have we not been at war. >> yeah. >> 21 years out of 250. >> that will frighten you. that's a sobering -- >> doesn't that make anybody think? >> it's a sobering statistic. >> mm-hmm. >> i was about to say, in the midst of all this disappointment and disgust, though, there's still something that you find in your art. there's something that keeps you on the stage. there's something that keeps you -- why are you still doing this? i mean, you've earned the right to retire and go sit down, if you wanted to. >> why waste talent? [ laughter ] >> that's why i love you, man.

such a succinct and straightforward answer -- why waste talent? yeah. >> no, i love acting. i live for acting. >> yeah. >> and i was a medtal finisher,a spot filer, a cab driver and i stunk at it all, but i'm good at acring. >> you are. but it takes a lot out of you at 87. that's a lot of effort to get on stage every night and travel across the country. >> having to shave and shower for "the tavis smiley show," that took a lot out of me, and i can't wait to go home and grovel in the dirt. >> i appreciate you for doing it, though. you smell delicious. i'm just glad that you -- >> how close did you get? [ laughter ] >> you're still enjoying life? >> boy, that's a hard question. >> it can't be that hard. >> that's a hard question. i just discovered something about -- and i'm not sure, but

this finger, you know, now watch. no, it's not doing it. it has been snapping back into place. >> on its own. >> yeah. >> yeah. >> and i think my brother-in-law had that happen a couple years before he died. >> uh-oh. >> and so, i'm wondering if that's one of death's signs. good thing it isn't this finger. >> yeah. [ laughter ] >> we'll come back to it. >> we will. before i let you go, since you went there, i'm going to follow you. have you -- have you allowed yourself to process that reality? >> what, death? >> yeah. what, you don't think about it? you process it? you think about it? >> i don't dwell on it. i mean, how can you dwell on it? >> everyone has a different way of approaching it and thinking about it. >> i think aboutt my parents, foreign-born, illiterate, and

yet, how great they were, how strong and honest and fair, very fair. and my brother, who was sly, and he would play hearts for money and he knew every card in the deck, every card in the deck, but he was a good guy, and he knew how to smell people. >> mm-hmm. >> and i think of them and i think of them movering into the ground, turning into ashes, if they're not already ashes, turning into worms, and i think, well, while i'm here, i'll just keep on doing what i think is right and hope that my kids have learned enough that they have full lives. i went to an art show last

night. my daughter shared with a guy who did a lot of photos in cuba, and she did, too. and i was knocked over by how beautiful her photos were. every one was an art piece. and i, i said, oh, i'm leaving in good hands. my son the night before, he's vice president of the autism society, and he put on a poker tournament with me as the kingpin, and they made a lot of money, so that was good. they're in good shape. >> so, you've done your part? >> well, no, i haven't done it, but their mama did a lot of it, most of it. but damn, they made me proud. >> yeah. and that is the same sentiment that many of us express to you. we appreciate you and your work,

ongoing. >> oh -- >> so, thank you. >> i ain't stopping. >> i know you're not. why waste talent? ed asner, great to have you here, my friend. i can't wait for the book to come out and i'm going to catch you on the "man and his prostate." >> you'll laugh your ass off. >> i'm sure. that's our show tonight. thank you for watching, and as always, keep the faith. ♪ >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time as we take a deep dive into what's happening around the country. that's next time. we'll see you then.

♪ ♪ >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you.

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