good evening from los angeles, i'm tavis smiley. tonight we remember legendary rocker tom petty. just days ago he and his band, the heartbreakers, closed out their 40th anniversary tour here in los angeles to three incredible soldout shows. best known for his roots-infused rock music, petty was a widely lauded songwriter, singer, and multi-instrument multi-instrumentalist. he leaves a legacy that will never be forgotten. we're glad you've joined us. a reprise of our conversation with tom petty coming up right now. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ >> pleased to welcome tom petty to this program. the rock & roll hall of famer has reteamed with his band, the heartbreakers, for their first c.d. in eight years. the new disc is called "mojo: from the project." here is some of the video from "i should have known it." ♪ i should have known it

i should have seen ♪ ♪ leave it to you to treat me mean ♪ ♪ every promise was just a runaround ♪ ♪ i should have known it yeah you're gonna knock me down ♪ ♪ and i should have seen this is the last time you're gonna hurt me ♪ you've. >> you've been rocking for a long time. you having fun yet? >> i'm always having fun. >> yeah. >> playing is fun. >> yeah. >> music is fun. >> after all these years still? >> it has to be. i love the music. i'm never, ever tired of playing it. now traveling, some of those things get a little wearing. >> yeah. >> i love to play. i love -- i love the audience. and it's still just as much fun

i think. >> yeah. no matter how long you are around, there are certain classics that the audience always wants to hear. you ever get tired of playing those classics? >> well, not if i can play something new, as well. i think it's important to always offer something new because i don't feel that -- i don't feel that we've come to a point where we just want to rest on our laurels. but no, i don't get tired of them. if -- you know, if 20,000 people start to sing, you tend to go along with it. so i don't really -- i wouldn't want to get stuck being an oldie-goldie group. i don't mind. i think all the trouble you go through these days to go to one of these concerts, i think i owe them bait of what they want to hear -- a bit of what they want to hear, yeah.

>> your album goes to 1981, if i recall correctly, you had a little spat with your record company at the time. speaking of the difficulty again, we go to see these, the money we pay to get in. >> yeah. >> back in '81, they were raising the price of records by a dollar. and you had a problem with that. you remember this? >> yeah. i -- i thought -- i had a much-anticipated album at the time. i found out just before it was going to be released that they were going to raise the price $1. in these days, it -- in those days, it would have been $8.98, and seems good now. i didn't feel that i needed the extra buck, and i thought this is going to set a trend of pricing the music out of the normal consumer's range. so i refused to deliver the album unless they lowered the

price. and eventually i got my way. and i think it held down the price of records for a long time. i mean, they wanted to go to $9.98. i wanted it to stay at $8.98. now looking back at it, i feel more right than ever because i think part of the bullet that shot the music industry in the foot was price. you know, a c.d. was over $20. and i think since then they've reduced the prices. but you can't make music on -- an elitist game. i think it's for the people and should be affordable. >> your answer raises two questions. let me put this one first. that was in '81. if tom petty were to walk into a record company today and try that, what would happen --

you'd be on the sidewalk like "beverly hills cop," through the glad window. >> i don't know if they want to know what i have to say. they didn't want to know then. >> that thought wouldn't work today. the second thing is if your music is that good, if tom petty is all that and then some, and obviously he is, and you can get the extra dollar for your record and tavis and his friends will pay you the extra dollar for the record, your art deserves that, yes, no? >> i deserve to be paid fairly. and i'm paid well. that was my position at the time was we are certainly making a lot of money. >> maybe the american way is always to want to make more money. >> yes, that's really if you look around at america, that's one of its biggest problems is you have -- you have corporations that can never be pleased at a profit no matter

what they make. they reckon they should still make more. if you've come up with -- you know, the human being that can feel satisfied at what he's making and that's not many people, but the people that n, say, the top 1%, that obama wants to tax and rightfully so, i think, this idea that any dollar that's my dollar is a good dollar is -- is a great deal of the problem we face right now. >> uh-huh. >> i think that -- listen, i like making money, like anybody else. i'm paid well. but i think there's a point at which you can outprice your audience or your -- your base. if these corporations are finding that out now. and i think it's a dangerous way to live. it's a dangerous way to think. >> i was talking to some kids the other day, tom.

and one of them was asking me how i recommend that he go about trying to discover what his gift was. what his talent is. what his purpose in being here on planet earth is. and i said to him and the students in the classroom, my sense is if you can answer this one question, you can figure out what your purpose is. the question is this -- what is the one thing that if i had to do it for free for rest of my life, i would. i like getting paid like anybody else. but if i had to do this free for rest of might have life, i'd still find a way to do it. that's your calling. that's your purpose. that's your passion. >> that's dead on the money. >> i raise that because i want to ask whether or not, since we're talking about money, if you weren't paid anything back in the day you still would have been playing something -- >> no, i -- i actually had said the very same thing to people that asked me should i go into the music business, should i go into, you know, say, law school, i'm kind of interested in both. and i say if you have a choice,

you shouldn't go for music. >> you got to be all the way in. >> this is something you got to do. you've got to do it. you know, when i decided to be a musician, i reckoned that that was going to be the way of less profit, less money. i was sort of giving up the idea of making a lot of money. it was what i loved to do. i would have done it anyway if i'd of had to work at taco bell. i'd still have been at night trying to play music. i always tell my kids, you know, find something that you love. and within that you'll find some job that you can do, and you'll always be happy. you'll go to a job that you want to go to. >> how did you know the music was your gift? >> it just hit me over the head one day. i -- around the age of 10, i

just fell in love with -- record collecting and listening to really old '50s records. this would have been around 1960, '61. and it took me a few years of being an avid record fan. and then i think when the beatles came on the "ed sullivan show" for the first time, there were millions of garage bands came from that. and i was one of those guys that got a guitar and learned to p y play. it was just like being addicted to it, i had to do it. and it became me whole life. and still is pretty much -- and i didn't have a choice. i was taken over by it. i was infatuated by music. that's what i wanted to do. didn't know if i'd be any good at it or not. you know, and probably wasn't, i'm sure, when i started.

but you work and work and work. and people say, well, how do you make yourself work so hard? it doesn't really seem like work when you're doing it because you're so caught up in what you're doing. so i've been very fortunate. >> do you -- after all these years, do you have any idea of what it is that -- about your style or about your substance that has connected with your audience, that's created such a loyal fan base for you? what that is at this point? >> really good luck, i think. >> yeah. >> i don't know. i think we're -- we've never really kept an eye on what was current or what was going on at the time. we just tried to make music that we felt was honest and that it was -- you could -- it had a fairly timeless quality to it. we never wanted to sound like we were on a particular bandwagon. maybe that had something to do with it.

we tried really hard. every show, we always go for it and give it all we got. i think we stayed together, the heartbreakers and me, has had a big fan base over the years. i can't be sure. i'm grateful that they're still out there and want to hear us. >> yeah. when one digs into your past and to the start of your career, i didn't realize you that were a big hit overseas before you caught on here which is kind of weird because there are artists around the country and are big in their own country, and the big deal is can i make it in america. here you are, an american who makes it big in europe before we caught on here in the states. >> yeah. we had a good probably year where england and europe were paying the bills. they were the first people. england, the press took great

notice of us. and it helped us break america because of the press coming back across the ocean. yeah, it took a little time to get off the ground. there you go. >> tell me about the record "mojo," the new project. >> "mojo," we're really proud of. this is our first heartbreakers album in eight years. >> where you been? >> well, we've been busy. we've been busy. we've been on the road a lot. we -- we did a film with peter bogdonovich. we did super bowl halftime. we did our 30th anniversary tour. we put out a seven record live box set. we haven't been sitting around. we got into the studio with this one, had a ball. it's -- this album is really who we've grown into being.

it's more blues-based album. i've always had a great love for the blues. and we are very proud of it. i hope people get to hear it. >> yeah. when you stay out of the studio that long, what happens when you go back inside? i asked that about the back drop. to my ear, at least, i'm a music lover, and to my ear the music business can change with the speed of light. it can climate change with t-- change with the speed of sound. it's fascinating because when somebody comes out with a sound that hits, every record label wants to emulate or copy that sound. once that's played, they move on to something else. it changes quickly sometimes. when you stay out for eight years, you go back in, the experience is like what? >> it was a heavenly experience. i mean, we -- we're not caught up in the music of the moment we're just doing what we like, and that's always been me strategy. let's do what -- let's make this

record for us, what we would like to hear today and what would make us, what would move us. if you move yourself, then odds are there's going to be quite a few people that hear it that way, too. >> how do you know that what you and the band think sounds good is going to resonate with your audience? >> we don't. >> a gamble? >> we don't. i have never had any idea that what i liked would resonates with the audience -- would resonate with the audience, and i'm pleasantly surprised whether it does. this is about a journey, you know. it's about a long musical journey. and i think sometimes maybe you're going to connect with the audience more than others. but the journey is about getting all there is to get out of this group of people. i feel like we've got a great deal more music in us. i think when you hear the album,

you'll say, wow, they're getting better. they're getting better as musicians, and the songs are good. but it's truly what we love to do. we never worry too much about what other people are doing. >> when you've been doing something as long as you can do it, is that humility speaking that we can get better, we're getting better, or do you really believe after all the years you've been doing that their th -- doing this that you're still getting better? >> i absolutely do believe that we're getting better. i believe we're refining what we do. i believe we're getting -- our art is becoming more refine d. i'm interested -- i'm going to be 60 this year. a little bit intimidating. but i don't -- i think that the job can still be done and that i have still a lot to offer. i'm trying all the time to get better at it. yes. i'm not being too humble, no.

>> 60 is intimidating for you, why? >> it ae's old. >> but why is 59 not old and 60 is old? dwroo. >> you're right. you're right. it's the same. if you're not getting oldeder, you're dead. but when i was a kid and thought of someone 60, i thought, it's pretty well wrapped up. >> aging. now 60 is the new 40? >> 60, yeah. 60 is the new 40. that's the baby-boomers for you. yeah. they refuse to die. >> you're the big 60 this year. and happy early birthday. when you're on stage, do you -- in terms of your instrumentation, are there things that -- this is really inside baseball. in terms of the way you play, your style, your stage presence, are there things that you have found yourself adjusting because

of your advancing age? >> well, i don't leap off the piano anymore. >> stopped doing that? >> stopped taking long jumps. yeah. >> in terms of your playing, you're not -- >> i'm actually better on the guitar than when i started, i think. i've had so much time with it, and i still practice, and i love to do it. and i love to sing. so you know, i don't think we've lost a lot there, no. >> when are you -- i'm always amazed -- it's one of the things i love. i love music, as i said earl yerks i lo-- earlier, i love gog to concerts for all people. one of the things i love, i may appreciate the artist and want to see them perform, but i'm not a diehard fan. i respect the craft, i want to see them. every time you go to the concert, there are diehard fans of the particular group. i'm always blown away by how the

hard-core fans know everybody in the group. they know them by name. they know their back story. you guys are laughing because you know -- you know how this works. >> yeah. >> they love everybody in the band. tell me about this group of guys you've been playing with for years and how that group stays together for so many years. >> the core of this group started playing together around 1970. i think first of all we stayed together because we really respect each other's ability. it's very much like a family. they become your brothers when you spend as much time in each other's pockets. as many rooms and airplanes and, you know, we're always together. like maybe we don't hang out as much together, but i was just telling this to someone, like but, say, saturday night we took a five-hour plane ride together.

and we had a lot of time to talk. and i -- i think we're friends, basically. i think we're friends. and the big reason i suppose that we don't break up is i personally -- there's nowhere i think i could go and -- and things would be better musically. i'm really satisfied with the people i play with. and i'm very -- in awe of like mike campbell and ben. you're not going to find anything better than that. i was just very lucky, you know, i think to be successful you have to work really hard, but you also have to have a little bit of luck. and i think i was very lucky that these two pals of mine happened to be now some of the greatest musicians in the world. so i've been lucky that way. we still have our spats and stuff. but i don't think there's anything -- in the way the band to us has become bigger than us in that we all respect it.

and i don't think we want to do anything that would tear it down. >> uh-huh. when you first got started, tom, was it your dream, then your goal then to be a front man or did that happen in some unique way? >> i have never been comfortable being the front man. >> never? >> never. >> you've been doing it for a while. you might want to settle into this. you might want to settle in, tom petty. >> no. i got stuck with the job. i -- first of all, i started playing the bass because nobody else would play the bass. and then -- and then i got bumped up into singing because no one else really wanted to sing. so i learned how to sing, and i wrote the songs. i tended to get the most attention. but i've always felt like a team player, you know. i don't -- i don't treat the band like i'm above them or like they're a hired hand for me.

we've never worked that way. i'm a team player. i would be very uncomfortable having to do this alone. >> yeah. you mentioned that over the years you all have become better musicians. you think you play better now than you did back in the day. this new project, "mojo," has the soupds chansound -- sound changed? or when you hear it, you know it's tom petty and the heartbreakers? >> i think the sound has changed. you'll know it's us, but the sound has changed. we're leaning more to the blues side of things. that's what we really listen to all the time. and music that has greatly inspired me. i think you'll notice that we've grown. we found some ground i think that we can work for a while now. and that's always exciting. you know, every now and then, something happens musically where you think we found a really good area. >> can you describe what that is? >> it's basically, we're -- i

don't want to get too technical for the audience. but we don't want to -- we don't overdub as much or, say, rather than say just -- like when you do a record and you're adding track after track after track, that's -- that's more to me like oil painting, you know. what we're doing now is more like polaroids. we're trying to capture it quickly and in the moment, and it's all about the feel. i didn't worry about much making this record other than first the songs which i worked really hard on for a while. nothing's going to happen if you don't have a song. then it was all about feel. how does this feel. and this move me? that was the criteria. i didn't care if somebody made a mistake or -- >> finally, this is our first time meeting. when you walked in on the stage, there were a bunch of guys that walked in with you. and quite a bit of a distance from here to where you walked in. i could see across the studio,

and i immediately knew it was you because i saw the sunglasses. the third guy. that's petty. this has become a trademark for you. if you walked in without your sunglasses, i wouldn't know who you were probably. >> you know, i'm not trying to be cruel -- i have -- not trying to be cool. i have problem with light. i have one eye that's supersensitive to lighting. >> right. >> so i -- i do wear sunglasses quite a bit. they're cool. >> it's a lucky kind of thing. >> we'll call that lucky cool? >> lucky cool. >> just lucky. >> i think tom petty is just cool period. he's always been cool. but he's still cool with or without the glasses. the new project is called "mojo." tom petty, an honor to have you on the program. >> it's an honor to be here. >> thank you very much. that's our show for tonight. catch me on the weekends on pri, public radio international, and access our podcast at pbs.org.

i'll see you next time on pbs. from l.a., good night, thanks for watching. and as always, keep the faith. >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. >> hi, i'm tavis smiley. join me next time for a conversation with jonathan eig talking about his new biography about the life of muhammad ali. that's next time. we'll see you then. ♪

>> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. ♪ >> be more, pbs. >> be more, pbs. ♪

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