>> good evening from los angeles. i'm tavis smiley. in a surprising twist, democrats may have a shot at winning a senate seat in alabama. one of the most conservative states in the country. tonight we'll speak with the democratic candidate for senate, doug jones, about his bid to fill the seat formally held by now attorney general jeff sessions. then, emmy winner and "scandal" actor joe morton joins us to discuss his portrayal of comedian dick gregory in the one-man play "turn me loose." we're glad you joined us. doug jones of alabama and joe morton of "scandal" coming up in just a moment.

>> please welcome doug jones to this program. last month he won the democratic primary in alabama's special senate race. his republican opponent is roy moore, a former state supreme court chief justice. they will face off in a special election on december 12. mr. jones joins us tonight from alaba

alabama. good to have you back on. >> great to be with you, tavis. >> let me start by explaining to the audience why this race is so important. one, because it's a u.s. senate race, all u.s. senate races are important but this is the seat to replace jeff sessions who is now the attorney general. this is also the seat in the state of alabama where donald trump was a few weeks ago when he called those nfl players s.o.b.s while he was there campaigning for senator luther strange. donald trump was throwing, to my mind, red meat to a red state. trump's candidate, senator strange, lost to the former supreme court chief justice roy moore so he's the republican nominee, doug jones is the democratic nominee. so this fight in alabama is going to be a dog fight and we will see what happens come december 12. that said, to the national audience, doug, for him to get a bet understanding of why this seat is so critical and the role trump and others have tried to make sure this seat stays republican, give me your sense of how you read trump coming to town, the comments he made.

give your sense as an al bam man, what you made as a democratic senate candidate. >> tavis, i think that one thing people need to remember is that the president's got a lot of support in alabama. unfortunately, i think his comments were just out of line. you don't come to any state and use that kind of language, talking about anybody who is protecting their first amendment, exercising their first amendment without also talking about the reasons behind that. i was very disappointed in the president's comments. we knew he was coming to campaign for his candidate in the race. at the end of the day, i don't think it really mattered very much. but it made a lot of national news and put alabama in a bad light when i thought it was completely unnets. >> you know something about the constitution and the bill of rights. you know something about fighting for people's human rights. we've known each other for years and we became friends in part around your work to make sure that there was justice done

finally in that case where those four little girls were killed in the 16th street baptist church. for those who don't know about your work as a u.s. attorney back then, take us back to that day and what you did in alabama. >> sure, tavis, thank you for that. i became the united states attorney under president clinton in 1997 and at that time we began to reopen and investigate the 1963 bombing of the 16th street baptist church in which, as you said, there were four young african-american girls that died in that horrific act of domestic terrorism. we took a lot of pride in the work we did. we did have to delay a little bit. you may remember, tavis, there was another bombing in birmingham at a women's clinic and eric rudolph, who was on the lam for five years. we put that case together, we worked with the state and local task force to help capture him and bring him to justice but the case of the 16th street baptist church bombing was one of the most fascinating and important cases i'll ever work on.

we had a great team that put that together, we did so with a lot of passion. i think we were able to demonstrate that justice delayed does not have to be justice denied and we brought a sense of healing to this community and this state and something that was badly needed when we convicted tommy blanton and bobby frank cherry for the murder of those four young girls. >> you were something of an icon in alabama and around the country for those of us who care about social justice and about civil rights being honored. why with the status you've already achieved having done something nobody else could do all these decades later, why put yourself up for elective office, doug? you've never run before. why now? >> tavis, i think it's because washington is broken, i think both parties right now have broken the system a little bit. they don't talk to each other. they don't have the kind of dialogue it takes to bring those cases to justice with that kind of passion that we brought. it's time somebody comes into washington that can talk to both sides and i think i can do that.

i this i i've demonstrated that in my career not just with those cases. you remember, tavis, i was appointed by a republican attorney general to do those cases in state court. i can talk to both sides of the aisle. i'm running as a democrat but i can talk to both sides and i think we need that. i started this campaign talking about the fact that washington needs people that will have more dialogues instead of monologues. we hear far too much of that and so every now and then somebody just has to step out. when you feel passionate about what needs to be done in this country, for equality and for justice for everyone it's time to step up. i had a lot of people encouraging me and i felt like it was something -- the right thing to do at this point in my career. >> i know that candidates never like to mention the name of their opponent but we know who roy moore is. he has been talked about on every major network and newspaper. this is a guy who was kicked out -- twice has been removed from office as a justice in the state of alabama and yet he went

on to beat the incumbent senator luther strange who trump had supported. he's raised a ton of money, he's got a bunch of endorsements line up. this is steve bannon's candidate in the state of alabama. how ugly is this race going to get? >> will, you know, tavis, i don't know how ugly it will be. obviously you're going to -- you always want to tout your record. i'm very proud of my record and we're going to talk about roy moore's record. i think he is an extremist. i don't think he fully represents all the people in alabama, i don't think he represent asths a majority of t people in alabama with his views. he certainly doesn't abide by the rule of law, has violated his oath of office and duty to the people that put him in office on two occasions but we're going to try to run a race that's positive. we're going to talk about records. but we want to talk about issues. that's one thing we've gotten away from in alabama, at least with the democratic party the talking about issues and things that people care about. i've called them the

kitchen-table issues. they're issues that people sit down and talk about with their spouses, with their children. their health care, their education, the jobs, the income gap we've seen. those are what i think people are most concern about these days and i think we have an opportunity with this special election to focus on issues more than personalities, although that is certainly going to be a part of the dialogue that we have going forward. >> so the analysts say that you have to win the black vote, no doubt about that. you're going to pull that and i suspect you'll pull in the big numbers given what you've done to bring justice to those families in alabama. you get the black vote but i'm reading you need to pull about 30% of the white vote in a very red state. can you do that? >> oh, i don't think there's any question about it. i think we'll do better than that. you know, people in the state, tavis are tired. we've been embarrassed before. roy moore is an embarrassment having been removed from office twice, the speaker of the house, the governor all removed from

office, people are looking for new leadership, looking for genuine honest leadership and that's the biggest thing. people don't like extremists on either side of the aisle and that's what roy moore is. he has a base but i've got a base, too, and it's pretty strong. we believe we've got a lot of crossover votes, people that are not satisfied with the way things are going with roy moore and his candidacy. people want to see somebody that's going to reach out. they want to see somebody that they can talk to even if they don't agree with them 100% of the time. you and i have had these conversations before. if we can sit down at that table and talk to people and agree to disagree on many things, believe the people of this state have more in common than we have that divide us. those are the issues we're going to be talking about. >> the democratic party, i've had my critique of them of late in the aftermath of what happened in the presidential electi election. how supportive of your candidacy is the party going to be?

you've earned their support but the democratic party is timid about putting money in the state where they think they can't win. no democratic president has won since jimmy carter, what was that? 60 years ago? they always elect republicans in alabama so how supportive of your candidacy give than you have this race tight right now are the democrats going to stand behind you? >> i think we're going to get support from around the country in a lot of different quarters. when you look and see what we're talking about, it's the very issues that the democratic party should be talking about across the country. again, the kitchen table issues. i think when people start talking about health care, and i do believe this health care debate that we saw last summer has really allowed people to focus on the issues rather than parties. that's allowed people to see what is important to them on a daily basis. in this state, we're seeing rural hospitals closing because we haven't expanded medicaid.

those are the issues the national democratic party should be talking about so we'll talk about the alabama issues and if those are the issues that our party wants to jump on board with, i think they'll do it. if they don't, we're still going to work, we're going to be an independent voice for the people of the state of alabama regardless. >> 30 seconds left here, doug. the problem or the challenge one has when run ones for an office that has become nationalized is that you're right, the focus gets away from what matters to al bam mans, so are you going to be more hurt or is roy moore gong to be more hurt by this race being nationalized? >> you know, i think there will be national interest. i don't think that will make the race nationalized. we're going to focus on those alabama issues and go straight to the people and talk about them. i think if there's anything that makes this nationalized it's going to be on the other side, the people that are the extremists, that support roy moore, they may want to make it nationalized. they're the ones trying to upset

the apple cart. we're going to be talking about issues people in the state of alabama that's going to be right down their lane that they're going to care about. so we'll see how this goes but i'm real comfortable in how we're going to keep this race focused on alabama. >> doug jones, we wish you the best, good to have you on the program, i suspect we'll do this again perhaps between now and december, certainly after december if all things go well. good to have you on, all the best to you, sir. >> thank you, so much, tavis, great to be with you. >> good to have you back on. up next, joe morton with his one-man show about dick gregory. stay with us. >> joe morton is an emmy-winning actor who has over 40 years experience in television, film and theater. he joins us to talk about the west coast premier of "turn me loose" a play about activist and comic genius dick gregory at the wallace. before our conversation, here now a montage from the original off-broadway production at the west side theater.

>> the irs is on me all the time. now don't get me wrong, i mean, i wouldn't mind paying my fair share of taxes, as long as i knew they were going to a friendly country. [ laughter ] one thing i have learned since obama's been president is that not all colored people look alike. [ laughter ] ever since he's been in office ain't no white people come up to me and said "excuse me, mr. president?" [ laughter ] i sat down, bloened waitress walks over and i said could i have a cheeseburger, please? she said we don't serve colored people. i don't eat colored people. [ laughter ] >> can i tell you, one of the great joys of my life as you know was being in the audience watching you do this in new york. >> thank you. it's a great play. he was a great man and it's my honor to sort of be -- to be able to portray him on stage. >> why dick gregory for you? >> i think this play and that man talks about the things that

i want to talk about, talks about the plight of the black man in america, talks about civil right, talks about the need for protest, talks about the hypocrisy of the american constitution and democracy. these are all the things that i enjoy and want to talk about and there they were. >> i was honored to have been asked by "time" magazine to write the obit for him a few weeks ago when he passed away. i knew dick well but it was so amazing for me in sitting to ponder what i wanted to write about him for "time," how timeless he was and what he had to say back then and what you do on stage can be situated in this mome moment. i was blown away watching you in new york at the dialogue and what dick was say this is the '60s and '70s and how it feels so real. >> we're still faced with the same sort of problems. i mean, you know, this whole idea that the nfl player should not take a knee because that's somehow a form of pro test

station is that is not democratic or patriotic or whatever. and all of the things i'm hearing anyway, the same kind of things dick heard when people were protesting in the '60s. there's a line in the play where he talks about, you know, don't -- america just didn't wake up one morning and give the negro his rights. as long as we were out there fighting they were pointing saying see how those -- act? they should be hung by a tree until they die -- and we were. and i think that's -- that's what gets me in the play. >> and that's who dick was. and the terrible something that we're still talking about it 40 years later. what was it that you learned about dick in preparing and researching for this piece that most surprised you, that most moved you and you try to get a sense of what was it was that was a take away about his legacy. >> i think two things. initially i didn't know that that his young son richard jr.

had died shortly after childbirth and i wasn't completely aware that he had given up so much. that dick was making millions and millions of dollars in a short period of time that he just literally pushed aside and became an activist 24/7. i think that's remarkable. remarkable. >> what was it about him that allowed him to do that? to walk away? that's a tough thing to do to walk away from those millions and dedicate his life to loving and serving black people i think particularly but all of humanity? >> i think, again, two things there's a point in which he realized that just being a humorist, being a satirist about racism and politics was not enough. in the play we do a story when he talks about an old man who speaks at a rally who in the course of being part of that rally was put in prison and while he was in prison his wife dies and in the play dick says,

you know, this man fought for my freedom, went to jail for me, lost his life for me. and i think it's that kind of moment for dick that made him understand that this is not something that you do as a hobby but you do as some sort of political outreach, that this is something that has to be done 24/7 and that there's no other way to do it. that's just who he was. >> i once had a conversation with dick that i'll never forget. we were sitting and talking and i was talking about a particular person who i regarded as one of the freest black men that ever lived and dick said "that -- ain't got nothing on john brown." i said "what?" he said "john brown is the freest black or white man that ever lived" and he went into his whole dissertation about why he felt john brown -- i knew where he was going but to listen to him give me this dissertation about why john brown was the top of his list when it came to freedom was fascinating to hear. i raise that because, again, i

wrote in this "time" magazine piece that dick was so courageous and i talk about the times he literally as you well know would go straight from a fresh narrow jail cell right to the stage. there were a number of times he got arrested, came out of jail, went right to the stage and he would kill it. the question i wanted to ask you is what was it about his humor that even in that very difficult period of segregation and jim crow and jane ycrow that he had this capacity to make both white and black laugh at the same joke? >> he knew how to construct a joke that made racism absurd, like that joke with the blond cheeseburger, please. we don't serve colored people. well, i don't eat colored people. suddenly the absurdity becomes clear. then in that same joke he talks about being confronted by members of the kkk telling them -- because he orders a big whole chicken that he has fried and they tell him "whatever you do to that chicken we going to do to you." so the joke ends up with him

missing up that -- picking up that chicken and he says "and i kissed it right on its --" and you have this absurdity about racism and that's why he got over. intentionally he was talking to white audiences first because we knew the story but then what happened was everyone could sit in his audience and understand how crazy this whole thing was. that it -- you have to rationalize your way through this nonsense. >> dick gregory achieved that ultimate status of not just being respected, admired, revered but he was beloved by black people. why is that? >> again, he was selfless. it wasn't about whether he was right or wrong. i mean, i say that knowing dick but it was about the truth and so the truth from his point of view was simply that. and you couldn't deny it. you know? i mean, i went to his memorial

and sitting a row away from me was louis farrakhan but up on stage was attalah shabazz. and for them to be in the same room at the same time, that said it all for me. i thought that's who he was. he brought people from completely diametric oppositions together to say we need to talk about this or we need to deal with this or here's an issue that we have to grapple with and that's who he was. >> the night i came to see you just killed in new york, it happened to be a night where you had a talkback with the audience when the show ended. as you had these talkbacks, what are you hearing from people in conversation immediately after watching this on stage? >> i think the majority of those audiences were young and so they were brought there by their parents. they didn't really know who dick gregory was. they're now going to run out and buy the books and see if they can find out from their parents who he was and that was the majority of it. you know, a lot of praise, but

mostly it was about who is this guy. and they're saying "how didn't we know about him before now?" and that's what it was about most of the time. >> you said something i don't want to lose sight of, i want to circle back to it. that is this play allows you to say things, to express things that you have longed to say and express. i've always had high regard and respect for you beyond just your great thespian capabilities because you are a humanist and you situate yourself in the world you live. how difficult has it been being an artist in this business to not always have the material that you've looked for or wanted for to express things that are inside of you? >> when i first started, i was always constantly frustrated by the fact that i couldn't find material that talked about these kinds of things. and began to complain about it with my agents and i was always told "go off and write

something." yeah, but i'm the actor. somebody else is supposed to write this stuff. and i think that was the lesson is that what i learned was you have to go out and look for it. he said -- we say in the the play, he says i have a belief that information is salvation and that to my is the key is i then had to go out and stir the pot, find out what stories need to be told, how can i find a way to tell the story, whether it's a book on tape or a television show or a movie, how can i bring this to the floor in some way shape or form? >> i'm going to take that segue, tv and movie, tv. for all your fans on "scandal" last season, i assume you've enjoyed this ride. >> this has been great to play eli/rowan has been amazing. to work for shonda rhimes is heaven. >> and film "justice league." you got to pick the spots, man. you got to pick your spots.

this "justice league" thing is going to be huge. >> it's going to be huge. it's one of those things like "scandal." it fell in my lap, i was driving down the street and my manager called me up and he said "zach snyder wants to talk to you." i said what? pulled over and he was on the phone and he offered me the gig and again at first it was -- it's like doing "terminator 2" only black male character in the piece of my age as it turns out, it's cyborg so it's me and ray who plays cyborg and then when i met ray it was about -- we talked about the fact that in some ways because the cyborg is played by a young black man it is a conversation about the other. because cyborg is not like the other heroes, he can't hide behind an alias. he is what he is and he's out like that all the time. so it was a situation where even though it was an action adventure movie, it had some

grounding in real life, something that i could hold on to. >> joe morton has been one of the finest actors of his generation. you can see him in any number of things right now. the last season of "scandal" which is going to be huge "justi "justice league" which is going to huger and "turn me loose" which is going to be big. >> we start october 13 and we run through november 12. thursday through sunday. >> and his birthday is -- >> the 12th. >> how's that phenomenon timing? >> well, we were supposed to do a thing at the theater where we were going to celebrate his birthday the day before we opened. maybe we still will. >> his spirit will be in the place. >> people ask me was it a great responsibility to play a man already alive and yes it was. now i feel a greater responsibility to pay someone who passed? >> he did see you on stage? >> he did. >> he liked it? >> he came twice. this is one of my favorite stories. >> tell me. >> he came twice and the second

time he came there was a moment in the play where we talked about the loss of his son and apparently he looked very lovingly at lil and took her hand and she said "what you holding my hand for? that's dick gregory up there." [ laughter ] >> and there you have it. "turn me loose" at the wallace starring one joe morton. that's our show tonight. thanks for watching and as always, keep the faith. th thanks for watching and as >> for more information on today's show, visit tavis smiley on pbs.org. >> up next, chad mcboseman about his role as thurgood marshall. that's next time. we'll see you then. ♪

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