good evening from los angeles. after a year with donald trump in the white house, the country is just as divided as it ever was. we're glad you've joined us, a conversation with the l.a. bureau chief of the l.a. times adam guerney in just a moment.

and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. please welcome the head of the l.a. times. good to see you, my friend. >> i'm glad you're here. let's start with what happened last week, for the democrats, these big wins and whether or not it is your assessment that the democrats have found their

way. >> i'm not sure they found their way. they need to find their wayo sort of expand their appeal. they won, they won big in the governor's race. that's more than terry mcauliffe won last time. it's a significant win. it shows the democratic base is turning out. i would be careful from extrapolating, and saying, oh, yeah, the democrats are going to take over the house. immediately it's going to help in terms of candidate improvement and the spirit of the party. i think the democratic party still has to come up with some kind of message to appeal to the voters they lost in the trump election. some kind of working class message. they're not there yet, they need to do better on recruiting candidates. there's not a lot of strong candidates solely for president. it's like chicken soup. it's not a bad thing, but they

have a ways to go. >> on the issue of their message, particularly for working class voters, why do you think that is so difficult for them to do. and i say to do and not to figure out, it's already been figured out. this is the way you need to connect with the voters on a working class message. if everybody knows that, why can't they figure that out? >> i think the problem is, they don't have the candidate that can deliver the message well. also, the democratic party, have you to navigate other things. class warfare versus not class warfa warfare. a lot of that stuff is very important to democratic voters, maybe not smuch for the voters you have to reach out for. that's the complication for them.

we're ithe part of the cycle where candidates are figuring out what to say. they have time to figure this out. >> these two things are not disconneed which is so say the message and the messenger? >> yeah, we're very connected. the messenger who understood what the message was. the candidates i've covered over the years. obama was great, but clinton was probably best at that. appealing to a broad swath of voters. >> some people would say the democratic party is still paying for that with all due respect to my friend -- i do think he's a friend of mine, bill clinton. we've had these conversations in

private and public to some degree. the democratic party to my mind is paying a price now for what clinton did those years ago moving the party to the certainer, trying to co opt the republican agenda on some points. there's some who argue the party is still paying a heavy price for what clinton did that may have worked then, they're reaping the whirlwind. >> i remember at the time. there was a lot of push back, it helped him get elected president. and helped him govern. i agwith you 100%. the party is paying a price on it now. we can argue about nafta and trade barriers forever. i think donald trump is one of the reasons the republicans got hurt. i think the party is paying a

price for that now. >> on the persons who say he's best to bring this message. he is the messenger who can deliver the message he's not quite said it that way. there's speculation joe biden will run in 2020. he hasn't ruled out running in 2020. he may have been the guy in the last round to take that message of working class to the people that needed to hear it. what do you think of joe biden's potential in 2020? >> i think. i've watched him and covered him for a long time. i do think if he had gotten the nomination in 2016 he would have had a better chance of winning. we can define how hillary clinton lost, but a better chance of him winning. he's going to be 77 years old in 2020. that's a practical issue, obstacle. and obstacle for voters who are

thinking, he's a little too old for that. you know the way people tend to go back and forth. trump is what, 69? >> he's 72 now. >> that is true, they'll probably be more likely to vote someone who's younger not a businessman, more energetic. we're like crazy time, all the rules that have guided politics for all the years i've done it. a lot of them have been thrown out the window. i've always learned to keep an eye on history, in terms of understanding politics, but don't get locked in by it, what happened four years ago or eight years ago is not going to happen again. when you say the democrats have to put the right person out. but what about kamala harris. and cory booker.

and yet to your point there are people that believe they have not put their finger on the right person the question is, is that a pipeline issue? typically when you hear that nobody's ready, whether it's the nfl complaining why aren't there more black coaches. the answer always ems to be a pipeline issue. is it a pipeline issue? >> i do think it's a pipeline issue. and we can figure out who to blame for it. >> maybe eventually, but she's a first term senator. i'm doing a piece on the person think withing about running for mayor. there's younger, less experienced candidates, and these older people like joe biden, hillary clinton -- there's no one in between ready to run. what that means is that level of

what democrats are willing to consider has been lowered. i think it's a wider net, you want qualifications for a presidential candidate, it's been changed. so it's forcing -- therefore, i'm not as if we were havg this conversation four years ago, i would say kamala harris, carl boucetti. i think trump is extremely vulnerable. it's a nomination you want to have. it's not a typical re-election for democrats versus republicans, it's a nomination you want. >> and deval patrick is still out there too. >> yeah, yeah. >> that said, let me switch from the democrats to mr. trump specifically. and then we go to the republicans more broadly. what do you make of the fact that at the endf the asia

trip -- he's been pretty well behaved vis-a-vis twitter. and he goes off again at the end. he calls kim jong-un short and fat. he seemed to go on this twitter tirade, which took ay from the good marks he had gotten for the balance of the trip. zbh i feel like this happens again and again. traditional mesh you'ves he was doing well. and then he goes off the rails. i think that he's only going to go along for so long playing the traditional role and then he's going to pop off. the thing about calling him short and fat, that was pretty remarkable, very to say. when i picked up my phone in the morning and saw that, i can't say -- i was surprised, but not stunned, you know what i mean? okay, that kind of makes sense, it happens against and again. the people that keep talking

about -- president trump is president trump. i don't think he's going to change. and people who keep talking about him hoping he becomes more presidential, he's not. do i think it was disruptive politically? i don't think it washenful. >> there are many ways to define remarkable in the sentence that you use dused, i'm going to let say what was remarkable about the short and fat comment? remarkably funny, dangerous. >> no, it's remarkably -- a presiden would not say that about another foreign leader. i don't think -- yes, really unusual behavior for a president or for most people i think it's remarkable as well. i think it's remarkably dangerous in the sense that -- you're working with a guy or dealing with a guy who's already

a little cuckoo, and you continue to poke at this guy. it's adolescent. it's punitive and pejorative. you're dealing with a guy we're already afraid of anyway. >> i don't think h has -- i don't think there's some strategy here the president has in doing that. i don't think he's sitting there thinking -- if i say this, we'll get him to do that, no, i think he's really -- one thing that people, opponents of trump have learned to do, whether it's chuck schumer or putin, is get under the president' skin. that's what happened here, he got under the president's skin and he popped off. >> speaking of putin, what do you make of that -- the news that trump just smed to accept putin says i didn't do it, trump says, good enough for me, basically. >> i don't want to get into the president's head, it's not my

thing. he seems to want to d anything he can to move on, he seems to be worried that the legitimacy of the election is under assault. i would -- you know, if i was him, i think what what i would do is say, this is a matter of real concern. we all agree my election is valid, whatever. he's not going to ae to move on. because now there's a republican democratic consensus to some extent we have to deal with a threat to democracy. it's going to be one in 2018 and 2020. >> let me go to the republicans more broadly. i think the first way in, to look at how remarkably this race in alama has changed. trump is down there weeks ago campaigning for luther strange who loses. roy moore wins. it is alabama, even with all the baggage in his background. roy moore is the hands on

favorite to win this thing. i asked him, how are you going to overcome the perception that this seat is roy moore's to lose. fast forward a few weeks, and i don't know what to make of this race in alabama now? what's your? >> i mean, in a formal race, you'd think the fwakt that he's been accused of sexual relations with a 14-year-old would be disqualifying. i think today senator mcconnell called for him to step aside. i think we're going to see, it sounds like there's more allegations coming out. he is clearly -- i don't know if he can hang in there. he's certainly planning to and run against the washington establishment, the washington post which broke the story. you know, that's not -- from a pure political point of view, that's not a krazdy strategy. you do get the sense that pressure is building. he's not a conventional politician. he stays in there, and we were

having this conversation on december 11th or 12th, would not be shocked if he won, not at all. >> i think you're right, it is a good strategy always in that situation. in this situation, he's no different than trump. he's running against the establishment. >> i don't think his voters are going to. he's saying this is the washington post, and the washington establishment out to get me. that's a winning message for his voters. therefore, they don't believe what they're hearing. these things tend to happen in waves. maybe there will be more examples -- at some point there may be a breaking point where people go, oh, well, maybe this is true. some democrats are thinking they have a good shot at that race. i think the jury is definitely on that. >> since you mentioned the washington post and harvey weinstn, you mentioned the post breaking the roy moore story.

the new york times has had a few news breaks itself of late. let me ask a few questions about that. what's it like. let me get inside the new york time times if i can. what is it like for the times when you're breaking stories, you're literally changing the conversation, in this country. what's it like on the inside of the times? >> i feel that journalism in general right now, and i would include trump -- coverage of trump, and the times and the post is on a real roll. the competition between the two blairs is really good. the important story, it changes the way the wld is, i think that's what's going on with the weinstein story about you're there to do good things. it sounds hypepy, but you're there to do good things for

society and expose wrongdoing. >> the most important thing, i think we've really changed the conversation. what's appropriate, what's not. you're seeing all these people come down, it's a big moment here i think it's good for the paper, generally i work there, i love the place, i want it to succeed, i think all this stuff, the paper is going through a really good period now. >> juxta pose for me the feeling you just described of this feeling of being on top of your game because of what's happening over the last few weeks. juxta pose that feeling for me with how you were feeling on the inside of the paper months ago, when trump seemed to be getting the better of all the media by calling you the fake news. he was certainly having his say.

it seems that has turned a little bit? >> i think people were caught off guard. >> it's not usual for a president to attack a newspaper the way he was attacking us. everyone was really just focussed on pushing ahead, doing stories. making sure they were as accurate as possible and fair as possible. i've been at the paper during bad periods, the disputed reporting of jason blair and all that. >> yeah, yeah. >> that was the opposite of this. people were feeling down and scared, worried about where we were going. i think people are feeling really good right now. of course, that will change at some point. >> how do you think the media hats changed, grown, i don't want to put words in your mouth, in the way it's covered president trump.

we're vastly approaching the one-year anniversary of the inauguration. how has the media found its legs in how to cover this guy over the last year. >> it's been difficult, because i don't think we're used to cover somebody who says stuff that's not true. this is one of the classic examples you've seen the other papers struggle with. if the president says something is not true, do you call it a lie? >> the line that i think we're walking is to try to call the president when he's saying something that's not true, fact check him and give readers perspective, without appearing we're his adversary. and i think trump's strategy here if he has one, is to demonize the press, therefore, delegitimize the press and make it his adversary. the trickier -- to write these honest pieces that are still fair, that don't me it sound as if we're the loyal

opposition, which we're not. there's been a real change in the way the press covers the president, the wous because of this campaign. it's never been -- the press as you know, the press always ends up fighting with presidents. it's never been anything quite like this. i don't know if this is a permanent change or not. this is challenging and hard. >> the flip side of being a paper like the times or the washington post on these stories. the flip side of being there to expose wrongdoing is that you get seen as having a vendetta. >> right. >> there's a long list of people wh would say the new york times has had a vendetta against him. there are a number of folks who have been on the list who pointed the finger at the times and says the times has a

vendetta against me or the post. how do you balance that? how do you cover or uncover the wrongdoing and not get to the point of roy moore now, he's accusing the media of having a vendetta against him. it's that liberal media bias in the establishment that we hear from time to time. >> i think what you need to do is listen to it, think about it and make sure they're not right. generally when they say stuff like that, roy moore is trying to stop the post and everyone else from digging and finding out more examples. i think that was right with trump too. you need to listen, and i think you need to play devil's advocate, are we going too far, are we piling on? i think more often than not, you have to keep pushing ahead, it's hard, you have people like jodi they're getting a lot of heat right now. it's hard, you're absolutely right about it, that's the balance you have to deal with every day. is it your sense or the course

of your career, that it's getting hard er or easier to cover politics? i say harder because the obfuscation is everywhere. there are so many tools right now to get information. your sense of what it's like to cover politics these days. national politics. i think in many ways, it's harder, no one has accepted it as automatically true. >> an increase in cynicism? >> or disbelief. people have a negative view of the media. it used to be you'd have voices out there. who were looked at a people who

would write the truth. and that doesn't really exist any more. there's a lot of people and voices covering and talking about politics now. which in some ways is great, and in some ways it's not great, it's harder to figure out what's going on. it's hard to cut through and do the definitive account of what's going on. part of that is, campaigns are less willing to cooperate. they have other ways. i remember noticing this -- they found other ways as they should have to get the message out. >> obama was the master of that. >> especially when it came to his black supporters. >> yeah, and i remember the first time i remember seeing him do that, i don't remr the exact episode, i remember waking up seeing something they were attacking a poll in the new york times. i was like, what is -- that's

the way the world works. the way it's easier is to sort of nitty-gritty of reporting. it's easier to fact check stuff, it's easier toook at a television commercial, right? it used to be, you had to go over and send a messenger to get a videotape. now, it's click, click. that stuff is easier, it used to be if you wanted to call a campaign manager, you had to go through their assistants. that stuff is easier. it's more chaotic now, but it is what it is. facebook is taking over the way people see the news. >> it's something you have to work around. >> it's a much different environment than when i started. it has pluses and minuses. you work with it, and work around it, it's a different kind of challenge. >> you're doing it. adam, good to have you on the

program, always appreciate hearing your insits on a variety of subject matters. that's other show tonight. thanks for watching, and as always, keep the faith. for more information on today's show visit tavis smiley at pbs.org. join me next time for a conversation with smokey robinson about his first solo christmas album, that's next time, we'll see you then.

and by contributions to your pbs by viewers like you. thank you.

- today on america's test kitchen: bridget bakes the ultimate chocolate caramel layer cake, adam reviews ice cream scoops in the equipment corner, and gadget guru lisa reviews the latest kitchen gadgets. right here, on america's test kitchen. america's test kitchen is brought to you by dcs. dcs: manufacturers of professionally styled indoor and outdoor kitchen equipment.