. welcome to this edition of "amanpour" on pbs. look who is filling america's leadership shoes as president trump steps away from some posts. tonight my conversation with the youngest most dynamic english speak go french leader since napoleon. "amanpour" on pbs was made possible by the generous support of -- good evening, everyone. welcome to the program.

i'm christiane amanpour in london with the world view. tonight the french president emanuel macron is quickly emerge go as the counterweight to donald trump. not only bucking the populist trend with a victory but carrying through on policy whether climate change or wholesale economic reform at home. he has picked up some of the diplomatic slack traditionally led by the united states. in september, he visited new york and i sat down with him for his very first interview as president. i found that he wants to work with president trump when he can but if necessary he'll stick to hard-won global priorities such as the iran nuclear deal which trump considers the worst deal ever and will soon have to decide once again whether to stick with it. i started by asking president macron whether he feared president trump might abandon the deal altogether. >> i don't know. i think it would be a big mistake.

i don't say this iran bill, this nuclear deal with iran, everything about how to deal with iran. if president trump considers it's not sufficient, i do agree with that. we have this deal. i think that the outcome of this deal is that now we have the monitoring process with the international agency following the situation, and i think that it is better than nothing. okay? why? if we stop with this bill, if we just stop with the nuclear agreement, so we will enter into a situation, very similar to the north korean situation before it happens this summer. so i think it would be a big mistake. now, this deal has to be completed and probably, i will try to convince president trump

that the best way to address the concerns regarding iran is to work into that direction. first, we have to work in order to have a monitoring process on ballistic activity in iran. that's a concern. that's a concern for the whole region. we have to work on it and we need a new agreement and we can work on sanctions and agreements on the ballistics side. and second, we have to complete the 2015 nuclear agreement with iran for post 2025. because this agreement covers the 2025 situation. >> on balance it makes the world a safer place to have this nuclear deal? >> definitely. you have today some governments, not compliant with international rules, and trying to get nuclear weapons. that's it. that's the situation we have with north korea and that's the situation we have with some other countries. the more you contain the

situation, the more you monitor, the more you put international agencies, and you forward it very carefully, the more you can intervene and contain it. i think if we just stop with the deal because it was negotiated by president obama, i mean, it's not a good reason to stop with the 2015 deal. >> what about president trump at this moment of maximum global crisis over north korea? calling him the u.n. rocket man, talking about destroying the capabilities, that very, very provocative language. >> look, i think what we have to do, and what we need is to be efficient. i think that north korean president is probably not very sensitive to what happened to the u.n. he is not a great client of the city and the united nations.

my point is not to increase pressure and words against words. what we have to do is to find the appropriate answer to decrease tension and protect people. people in the region, and i want to think of south korean people -- >> japanese people. and our japanese friends, and i will see the japan prime minister during this trip to new york. and i think -- i mean, we speak about a global threat today. so for me, it is how to decrease the tension, how to contain the north korean tension, how to increase -- to de-escalate. >> do you think there is a military solution? >> sometimes president seems to indicate there's a military solution to north korea. >> look at the map. if you think there is a military solution, you speak about a lot of victims.

i do believe in negotiation. i do believe in how to control -- i do believe in building peace, and i think that's what we have to do in this region. >> the president told the united nations in his speech that he wants a tougher, better deal. he's very concerned about north korea. i spoke to the iranian president who says the u.s. will pay if they pull out of this deal. what is your view on that? what have you said to mr. trump? i know you discussed it last night. >> sure. and i discussed it with president trump. first regarding nuclear weapons, it is about north korea. and this situation is to be looked at very carefully. we have to avoid a military answer. we have to increase pressure, especially with china and russia.

and we have to decrease the pressure and stabilize the situation. but north korea is a very good example. why? we stopped everything with north korea. years and years ago. we stopped any monitoring, any discussions with them. what's the result? they will get a nuear weapon. so my position with president trump was to say, look at the situation with north korea. i don't want to replicate the situation with iran. we had a deal negotiated in 2015. for this deal france pushed very hard and a more demanding deal. it is a very good one with monitoring from the international agency we have regular reports.

so we have to keep this process. >> let me ask you about how you deal with president trump. he says some things in person. he says some things on twitter. his ministers say other things. how do you deal with the leader of the free world in this situation? some have described it as chaotic. some say they don't know who to listen to. what does president macron use to deal with the president of the united states? >> i do appreciate him. we have very good personal relationship and i have very direct discussion with him. i don't interfere in domestic things, what you call discrepancies for different members. for me there is one voice. your president. you elected your president and this is a voice i consider and the man i speak with. and it is always the same thing. we share our views. he is very direct. and he listens to what i propose.

>> what are the main areas of disagreement? >> i think the very first, it is about climate. as president trump decided to leave the paris agreement, that is his choice and i do respect his choice and he was elected on the basis of such a decision. i do regret the decision. and i do want to convince him to come back. for me, that's a core agreement for climate. and i do believe that especially after the hurricanes we just had, both in the u.s. and in france, we do see the direct consequences of the climate change. we have to fight against the climate change and we need a globalization for that. i will keep pushing. we have direct discussion yesterday. we will implement paris

agreement on our own at the french level and the europe level as well. we have a strong agreement with the chinese. i think it is very important to maintain. now that's an issue for the u.s. itself to see what they want to do and what president trump the wants to do with climate. but we have to deal with that. >> the president says this is a bad deal. we can get a better deal. ited states.e, bad for the bad what do you say when he says that to you? >> first, it is not bad for climate and for the environment. especially if he decides to leave, it will be worse. because the u.s. is a very great contributor in terms of co 2 emissions. if you don't fix the situation in the u.s., you are not credible to tell the others what to do and you have the consequences of the situation. so no, this is not bad for

climate. that's wrong. even the short, mid and long run, that's a good agreement for the u.s. and for all of us. why? because it's's true that in ord to deal with climate change, you will have to change a lot of things in our economy. you will have to stop certain activities regarding fossil d we have to make the switch from an economic point of view. it is so critical. so i think it could be a good deal for jobs but it depends on our ability to invest in

right sectors and it depends on speed and commitments coming from our governments. so the point is to say i want to preserve classic industrial jobs. i perfectly understand, i mean, how anxious some of your people could be and my people could be about climate change decision and what we want to implement. that's a necessity. and at this point in time, due to the consequences. >> which brings me then to the very major philosophical point that you're making, which is continue the historical relationship. continue multilateralism. be part of the world. president trump has said, make america great again. he kind of shifts between being part of the world and being protectionist and isolationist. what gave you the courage to go against that trend during your election campaign?

i remember, before the election, you said this is a great moment for france to go in the opposite direction of the prevailing trends. take on anti-globalization. take on populism. what made you do that and believe you could win doing that? do. war..e i know the outcome of nationalism is all about war. we experienced that 80 years ago in europe. at the end of the day, if you believe that there is nothing to change this trend, and we have to accept anti-globalization, pro nationalism, protectionism and so on, it is ball, at the end of the day, it is all about why do you think somebody like hillary clinton who believed in all these things you said, and somebody like david cameron who is at heart a remainor, why do you think they didn't put up a big enough fight or why do you think they lost?

>> i'm probably not the best to comment on elections in other countries. i want to be very humble. i think for mrs. clinton, it is probably due to the fact your perception to your people was that she was less middle class candidate than mr. trump which was a big issue. she was pictured, i'll not saying it is true, but she was pictured as a candidate of the elite. i think if you don't put yourself with an answer to better regulate globalization, to give more power to middle classes, it is impossible to convince in a current democracy. and i think it is the same issue with brexit. first of all, david cameron was a remain but.e defend the and he already lost at the very

beginning when he was not clear about his strong willingness. when you have all this no in front of you, you have to be a strong believer. not an ambiguous believer. but at the end of the day, for me, the interpretation of the brexit, is the fact that for the u.k. middle classes, they didn't find their part of the current evolution of the e.u. t, i need a strong democracy e for my middle classes and my people. i have to pass reforms to be more efficient, to create more jobs, to be more innovative.

but i need more regulation for my middle classes. at the end of the day, there is no market without actual political success and your political success is about your country and your middle classes to find the place. and that's the big issue for modern democracies. when you look at the situation cause of our failure to give a place and a progress story to our middle classes. >> so you brought up your forms. you were elected on a platform of reforms and you've already started later reforms. pularity.your very high ations how do you square that circle? what do you do? how threatening are the protests? and will you like other presidents, back off if the

protests get too strong? >> i will deliver. i was very clear during my campaign about the reforms. i explained the reforms. i presented them during weeks and weeks and i was elected in the reforms. i do believe in democracy. and it is not in the streets. they voted on. so i'm very quiet in that. and i think at the very beginning of the mandate, you have the political capital. you have to use it. i don't mind to have, to be very high in terms of popularity the. my country has to be reformed. i have 10% unemployment rate. almost 25% of my young people being unemployed. is useless to have political capital and to stay in such a situation.

so i am passing reforms on labor markets on, vocational training, on education, investment, training and education, a series of reforms, because i have to deal with a lot of dysfunctioning situation. but say france lost its equilibrium, let's say. you face unhappy people and resistance. i'm fine. i know that. if it were so easy to deliver reforms, probably classical politicians would have been elected to do so. so it will probably last a few weeks, a monthuch a situation. i will progressively pass reforms with the government. >> you mean protests will last a few weeks, months? >> the situation of reforms. >> i see. y you will have big tion to demonstrations or not, but what

i know is i do respect those who demonstrate. but i do respect french voters and they vote for a change. and i think what is important is to do what you do very quietly, to explain and to explain that it is impossible to have a fair system if you don't implement reform. it is impossible to distribute if you don't produce. it is impossible to have a strong france without a strong economy. it is impossible to have strong middle classes if you don't have a strong environment. so i have to pass reforms first and have a complete plod he will. that's a transformation agenda. that's huge in terms of mindset, in terms of organization. the main difference with my predecessors is that 20 years

ago, one of my predecessors tried to pass reform with big demonstrations and was blocked bust he didn't explain it in the campaign. he was not elected. ndidate.i am not russia's the >> yes. i am a french candidate. >> marine le penn seemed to be in their back pock. you trieto sullyour reputation and the facts around yourself. again, why did you decide to take that stand after you saw what happened here in the united states? nobody stood and publicized what russia was doing, even though it was clear before the election? and how does one deal with president putin? >> i think the they interfered in a lot of campaigns. their strategy is to promote liberals in a lot of democracies.

that's fair. it is well known. i prefer to be very clear and i made a statement loud and clear in this campaign. i had very direct execution with vladimir putin and i was very clear we some of the propagandists of the russian situation in my country. they are not journalists. they are making propaganda. that's very different. we have to work with russia. it is impossible to fix syrian situation without russia. it is very hard to fix north korean situation without russia. russia has to be respected given its place in history and our relationship. it's a member of the p-5. if you want to make this global

environment functioning, you have to deal with russia. i think on syria, we can act together. that's important. on syria, if you look at the and the situation is that our very top priority in syria was and still is to win against jihadists and terrorists. with the coalition and the leadership of the u.s., we will win, i do believe. so that's very important and that's my first objective. second objective is to preserve the integrity of the country, the government and inclusive political solution for syria. i don't believe bashar is the solution. he is a criminal. we know that. and he has to respond on his crimes in front of international court. but what i decided to do is to discuss the negotiations with

russia, because today when you look at the syrian situation, the unique active process, you don't have the u.s. around the table. you don't have europe around the table. you just have turkey, russia and iran. that's a huge defeat for all of us. so this process which was a military de-escalation process has to be completed by a political process in order to have political solutions and build the conditions for future elections in syria. as for north korea, we need this with putin why. because he is one of the two main players in the situation to have an embargo on north korea and push them to be involved with our roles. and today we need he a russia that is much more committed to the negotiation. and at the end, for the

negotiation, we have this with prime minister merkel. i want us to progress into the direction. so you have to discuss with russia. i do respect vladimir putin as a partner but i refuse to accept any interference because i don't interfere in russian elections. >> i wanted to end the discussion under the global microscope. i wanted to talk about his marriage to bridget. i discussed it powers his every endeavour. >> i would like to say to you, love, what does that mean to you some the world is obsessed right now with your marriage and your relationship with your wife. >> she is my life.

i do believe you don't build something great and you don't behave properly if you're not balanced and have a strong couple. i've been with my wife for decades now. and she is part of me. >> is it important for a world leader to have that part of their life? >> it is for me, very important. for me, very important. for my personal balance, to have somebody at home telling you the truth every day. because access to truth is one of the main change, and somebody with her deep convictions and knowing you for what you are and loving you for what you are.

not for what you represent and your role, the honors and something very specific. so we are together for as i told you, decades. that's my anchor. >> your anchor. >> yeah. >> president macron, thank you for joining us. >> and that's it for our program tonight. thanks for watching this edition of "amanpour" on pbs and join us again tomorrow night. "amanpour" on pbs was made possible by the generous support of --

♪ ♪ ♪