welcome to this edition of "amanpour" on pbs. tonight, "fire and fury" author michael wolff lifts the lid on his book about trump. as the white house brings out its own troops with sustained fire back. plus, fresh from the golden globes nominated for her own battle of the sexes, billie jean king on the lessons hollywood can learn from that titanic struggle. ♪ >> "amanpour" on pbs was made possible by the generous support of roslyn p. walter.

>> good evening, everyone. welcome to the program. i'm christiane amanpour in new york, with the global view. it's the book that's sending shockwaves around the world. "fire and fury," michael wolff's inside account of the white house has dominated headlines and best seller lists. driven by his reporting that inside the white house, there's universal belief that president trump is incapable of functioning in his job. but critics point out inaccuracies and questionable journalistic practices by wolff, raising questions about his credibility. i spoke with him here in new york after a massive white house counterattack. michael wolff, welcome to the program. >> glad to be here. >> this is, i would say week two, the real pushback week. president trump's major defenders were on television all weekend, and they have chipped away to the point that steve

bannon himself is issuing some sort of mea culpa. how do you feel about that? >> that's just the donald trump playbook, attack, attack, attack. >> but he's your main source -- >> you mean -- >> steve bannon, yeah. >> in terms of steve. but steve didn't say anything i got wrong. he merely said that it wasn't don junior he was talking about, he was tapaul manafort. i'm very fond of steve and he's been very helpful. but this is not true. as a matter of fact, and this is in the book, he went through the steps, why did don junior do this. >> talking about meeting with the russians. >> and don junior did this to impress his father because he wanted to oust corey liewandowsi and take over the campaign, and

steve said he had to show his father he had the stuff. so this was definitely about don junior. >> so in a he said, she said, and obviously some of the people are on the record, a lot are not. i think everybody is just staggered by your declaration that 100%, those are your words, of the people around the president believe that he is incapable, unfit for carrying out the duties oh of this office. >> 100%. it is staggering. that is why -- well, i think that's why this book has hit such a chord, because everybody sort of -- it's the realization, he's to everyone, you cannot listen to this man. you cannot watch what this man does. you cannot see this man, read his tweets on a daily basis, and not say something is wrong here. everybody recognizes that.

outside of the white house. and it is the obvious thing to think, to realize that the people inside the white house who are just the same as you and i, say what the hell. >> well, the thing is, though, we have to ask you and wonder how on earth did you get people around him to even say that to you? did they say it to you -- >> i'm going to tell you something, they say this to everyone. everybody who they talk to, people in the washington press corps, people in political circles, everybody knows this. so the only different thing that has happened here is i said it. >> if they say it to everybody, how come it's only coming out in the way you're saying it now? and how did you get it? did you talk to them and ask them those questions? what was the reporting? >> well, there are two questions

there. this has not come out, and some of this has come out by the way. you know, so and so called him a moron, et cetera. it has to a degree come out. but to the largest degree, everybody, and this is daily reporters, have to go back in the next day. so the luxury that i've had is that i parachute in, i'm there for six months, i'm out of there. i can say -- i can say it because i don't have to go back. >> at one point, you said you were there for six months. you heard all this stuff, which is i'm afraid terrifying. it is. why should we be feeling comfortable if you're telling us the president of the united states is universe ally believe to be unfit for this office. >> you should be terrifying. >> why did you sit on it for so long? did you not want to tell some people who may be in positions

of power? >> that's the point. i get to do this because i'm not a daily reporter. it's not a question of my conscience. i knew i could get this story, but i had to do it over a period of time. i mean -- >> so there's no point where you thought you should tell some of these guys, something is not right here. >> on a journalistic basis, and this is not only part of the issue, if something is on fire, you have to report it. but i did say to many people, and it was sort of my pass here, you know, i will just report this when the book comes out. and people would say, when is the book coming out? i would say sometime next year. and they would go, that's like never. i got to do this, i got to understand the -- the -- the real alarm by people in the

white house by going back day after day after day. >> so the flip side of that question is, you kind of made your name, probably endpraingra yourself with the white house as being a supporter -- >> i would say that's not entirely true. i wrote this quite negative portrait of the president in june, 2016. i mean, that was the piece in which two weeks before the brexit vote he didn't know what brexit was. nevertheless, it was donald trump, he didn't really read it. he just looked at the cover and liked the cover. so i got a pass there. in terms of the press, in the early days of this administration, i did think everybody was -- had a knee jk

reaction. i did say that there was -- i felt sort of like everybody who went to work for the president in the white house. this is strange, this is peculiar. but could it work? yeah, maybe it could work. and i went in there without -- with no assumptions. i would have written -- would have been delighted to have written a book that said donald trump is -- really knows what he's doing and he's really gamed this. and in the end, it's going to be a successful presidency. >> as it turns out you didn't feel that, and the president has been tweeting he is stable and a genius, and the white house has sent a cease and desist letter to you and your publishers. >> a sure sign of stability. >> and they have -- many people do that -- >> oh, no, no! never has a president done that. >> really?

>> never. never has a president done that. >> watergate, pentagon papers. >> no, that was -- they tried to require a restraint. but this is a cease and desist order because i have libelled the president. never. >> so your publisher feels the same way and says we cannot stand silent and will not allow any president to do this. how far do you expect the pushback to go? you saw all the major cabinet ministers, the director of the cia, push back on what you said. pompeo says i brief him every day and he's totally engaged. >> you have to do this. to work for donald trump, you have to do this. i know people who are saying this, and i know what they say behind the president's back. it was an interesting thing on saturday morning, john kelly was

asked about the president's, you know, unusual tweets of that morning. a reporter asked him and he said, i didn't see them. that's not true. that's not true, because i know the white house goes -- every time the president tweets, the white house goes into a spasm. >> so does the rest of the world, particularly with major foreign policy issues. you were around when a lot of decisions were being made. tell me about the process that led to the president actually delivering a wicked punishment to bashar al assad for using chemical weapons, which much of the world applauded. >> there were two factions in the white house. the presidentclined to respond to this. steve bannon was not inclined to respond to this. but it was the -- the president

was just of a mind which was what do i get out of this? and it was his daughter and other people, dina powell, who were very concerned about this, and saw this as an opportunity for this white house to act what you might call to have a normal response. and it was very hard. they went through a whole series of efforts to focus in, to get his attention, and finally they have to do this with a set of pictures. >> but it was very important, particularly after president obama did not cross a red line. >> it was important, yes, it was important to them, but the interesting thing here is how they had to move and manipulate this president. because one of the major things, perhaps the major issue in this

administration is how do you get information to the president? because he doesn't read, and he doesn't listen. that's an interesting double whammy. >> and what about the other major sort of center piece of the administration. president trump reputing his son-in-law jared kushner to bring peace to the middle east, to try to get together a whole new relationship between the white house and the royal family in saudi arabia, what was going on around those dynamics? >> you know, i think it seemed to be a very -- a new, a kind of legitimate trump foreign policy, different from the foreign policy than we've had in a number of generations. his foreign policy was, you can do anything you want, i don't care what you do. if you do also what i want. so if you make me happy, i don't

care who else you make unhappy is essentially the u.s. foreign policy now. >> so what he was saying in other words to the crown prince, is that -- >> that's exactly it. >> and where do you think the russia investigation is going to end up? we heard steve bannon say that it's going to be following the money. what do people in the white house feel -- >> the people in the white house actually feel that there is that collusion -- if there was collusion, it's of a gang that couldn't shoot straight quality. don junior, if not inadvertent, no grand strategy there. but they do, and again, to a man, 100% believe that if it touches the money, then donald

trump and his family have real problems. >> and what about -- again, for an american and a global audience, the whole idea of donald trump sort of affection's affinity with quite a lot of these right wing nationalist groups around the world. he supported marie le pen in france, there are others around europe that got support. do you see -- who was in charge -- >> when i interviewed the president in june, i specifically asked this question, what is your relationship to the populist figures in europe? and then i said specifically, you know, specifically in britain with the brexit vote. then he said, what? i said brexit. he said, what? and i said, you know, the move

for the uk to leave the european union. he said yeah, yeah, i'm for that. so is there any real thought-out kind of thing here? you know, i absolutely don't know. >> michael wolff, thank you very much for indeed. "fire and fury" is the top of a lot of best sellers right now. with washington in the throes of more west wing reality shows, it could rival hollywood for drama. at the golden globes last night, women led a united front against sexual harassment. harvey weinstein's place of honor was roundly mocked, and oprah winfrey delivered the night's rallying cry with an impassioned speech on fairness. >> i want all the girls watching here and now to know that a new day is on the horizon! [ applause ]

you and when that new day finally dawns, it will be because of a lot of magnificent women, many of whom are right here in this room tonight, and some pretty phenomenal men fighting hard to make sure that they become the leaders who take us to the time when nobody ever has to say, me too again! black. they wore pins for "time's up," a legal defense fund for victims that have been victims of abuse. among them was no less than tennis legend billie jean king. with a film of her own, "the

battle of the sexes" was nominated for two awards. she joins me from los angeles to talk about the way forward. welcome to the program. >> thank you. great to see you. >> we saw you there. what was the moment like? was it electrifying? did you feel hike it was transfrmtive? >> well, as a 74-year-old, it was totally electrifying, inspirational. the reason i'm wearing red today, i felt like i woke up this morning and i jumped up, i'm so ecstatic from last night. it really did solidify people's thoughts. it encouraged women particularly, and the men who care, as well. and even is talking about oprah being president and running for it. i hope she does. i'm praying she'll run, because nowadays it seems like you have to have a lot of media behind

you through the years, like president trump, and that really helps the people to know you, and who you are, and i think it helps get elected. oprah is in a perfect position to be running for president of the united states of america. >> so was that a serious vibe there, or just the gossip going through the golden globes? >> it was very serious. we met the day before with the activists, and she said this will be the first time it's not just about the dresses and fun. this has substance, and it's going to make a difference, and it did. the feeling was electrifying, and it was such a togetherness feeling. and i've never been to the golden globes before. so you have to realize what a privileged soul i was. but being side by side with emma stone, who won everything last year, it was such a privilege to be with her last night and to be

part of this movement of metoo, and what -- and you know, time's up. >> let's talk about that. she won for "la la land" and she was there last night because of the film that's all about you called "battle of the sexes." she played you and steve karel played bobby rigs, and perhaps nobody can forget that in 1973, 90 million people around the world tuned in for that match that you played in houston. walk us through why you even ever agreed to take on bobby rigs, who was just out to tweak you and to prod a woman and to basically try to prove to the world that no woman could beat him. >> we just had started with the professional women's ten ilgis. but for two years he followed me around saying we've got to play. then he got the number one in the world to play on mother's

day in the united states, and she lost badly. so i knew to protect title nine, which is very important in the united states, it's a protection that started in education, it was so important to open up the doors and not just have quotas in the classroom, and to create opportunities for boast boys and girls, men and women, in all skies, whether it's high school or college or university. but i knew the moment margaret lost, i knew i had to play bobby rigs, who i adored. he was one of my heroes. he won the triple croup at wimbled wimbledon. but i knew how important this was. i knew there was going to be a lot of discussion. it was just amazing, the six weeks before the match, how people were absolutely going crazy. there were parties, sorry ties, everybody was watching.

it's just amazing how everybody remembers this. if you're too young to remember, they hear it from their parents or grandparents. so it was all about fighting for equality, for equity, to push us forward. this was not a tennis match. this was on the line, i wanted to give power to the women, but i also wanted to bring in the men, because we need to do this together. the world is getting smaller, yet, we're getting more isolationist with brexit, the way president trump thinks. i think it's mind boggling to me. >> you saidwa much more than a tennis match. of course it was, because you also pioneered for your sport equal prize money, and you played very hardball with the organizers to make sure the women were treated fairly. i want to play just a clip from the movie "battle of the sexes" where you're taking on the promoters and organizers.

>> you're offering the men's winner eight times the women. they sold the exact same amount of tickets to the women's final to the men's. >> same sales, same prize money. >> be reasonable. there's no way that we could afford that. is what is is your argument, jack? >> well, for one thing, the men have families that they have to support. >> i'm the only breadwinner in my family. >> i mean, there you have it. the sexism, the misogyny, very unequal pay. yes, things have got better, and you created a unique playing field. but the metoo movement hasek echoes of the same things you were trying to address back then. >> it's always been the same, generation after generation.

but i'm so enthused with the young women i met. i can tell you, i have such hope for millennials. the millennials are the greatest generation ever to believe in inclusion. and they're powerful. these groups are powerful. these women don't feel they don't have power. they feel very empowered. in the old days, everybody felt like they didn't have a voice. they were negative in their thoughts. no more. those days are over. and i really look forward to working with them and helping them through the billie jean king leadership initiative. we're all about equality around equity. these are the things we have to keep fighting for. now women are becoming like the old boy network. they're starting to speak up and stick together. once you cross that line, you've got to be ready for anything. but you have to make that commitment. >> i wanted to pick up, because

you've always been very clear that it's not about women versus men, you have to have both genders in this fight. however, we've seen the person who has now taken over for matt lauer is being paid $18 million less than he was, and we have a british journalist who just quit her place of work at the bbc because of pay equity. there's an interesting article just written in "the new york times," and she says, you know, women didn't create sexism, men created sexism. and she fwaif thegave these exa men can fix it. how about matt damon refuses to show up for work until women are paid as much as he is. how about robert downey jr. points out microaggressions against female contemporarconte.

i wonder whether this moment makes you shift your dynamics a little bit and say that men need to be doing a lot more than they've been doing. >> men do need to do a lot more, and they can, because they have the power. whoever has the power, the dominant group, has to start including the subdominant group more and more if they want to be on the right side of history. that's somewhat they have to think about. even whim o every one of us have a mother, many men have daughters, and the younger generation of men are being i think much better about empowering their girls. my dad believed in me as much as my younger brother. that's what made a difference to me, as well. i don't know if fathers realize how important they are to their children, particularly their girls. if they believe in them, it makes a big difference in our

society. so i urge men to really reflect for a moment and think about how they can make a difference and stand up. they can do it across the board. every industry, including sports, sports is going to be the last bastion of change because it's so male dominated. >> billie jean king, you talk the talk and walk the walk. thanks for watching "amanpour" on pbs. join us again tomorrow night. >> "amanpour" on pbs was made possible by the generous support of roslyn p. walter. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com

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