>> chaharlie: welcome to the program.

tonight politics, we look elections ru89 with jeff zeleny and assessment of the debates so far. >> the democrats haven't had much good news throughout the summer. this is not necessarily a referendum on president obama but was a central figure in the discussion of both of these campaigns. and democrats on capitol hill are worried that this is going to weigh on their races next year that he's going to hurt them in terms of enthusiasm of the democrats. >> charlie: we look at the movie contagion. >> i've had more versions of the film i presented to scott and the proves. over 20, so a lot of trial and error, trying to find that balance between character and narrativ trying to keep the movie moving as quickly as the virus. and having enough science to

makeou feel like it was real but not so much that you just sort of fade away. ina caro her book is called paris through the present traveling through history. >> we love going to the museums, eating in the wonderful restaunts. and in this book, taking trips out of paris and always coming back to paris. >> charlie: politics, movies and paris trains when we continue.

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>> charlie: we begin this evening with politics and national ilications from local and state elections. an up set victory with the republican bob turner won new york's theth congressional district seat. it was previously held by anthony we were. it's been held by democrats since the 19 20's. joining me from washington jeff zeleny from the "new york times" i'm pleased to have him here. welcome. >> hi charlie. >> charlie: so what do you think, we'll talk about the specifics of the races, but what do you think the whitehouse and the political operatives there are saying today? >> this is another set back for democrats without question. ey haven't had much good news really throughout the summer.

this is not necessarily a referendum on president obama but he was a central figure in the discussion of both of these campaigns. and democrats on capitol hill are increasingly worried that this president is going to be a weigh on their races next year. he's going to hurt them in terms of enthusiasm among democrats. each of the campaigns had individual things going on in terms of local issues and dynamics, but overall it basically boiled down to the democrats wererying to make the argument that republican policies are scary and they should elect the democrat. but the republican argument won the day saying that president obama's policies have failed. so democrats are set back by this. it's me of an internal frustration that they just cannot seem to advance tir argument here that they thought they could. >> charlie: but the republican canned death in new york here in the congressional district stressed that was a

referendum on the prident, did he not? >> he does stress there was a referendum on the president and it was as though the president was on the ballot himself. democrats will say, look, this district al although it's beend by democrats for nearly a century it's election cycle by election cycle. but the democrats were trying to win this and they were unable to get their voters to the polls. the unions were not performing as strongly as some democrats had hoped so. it's really about enthusiasm here. if you can't get your own voters out in a race where there were just tens of thousands of people voting, it's a problem. >> charlie: what does it say about jewish voters perhaps having some concerns about the presiden >> i think that is at the heart of the discussion here. that was definitely the under current of the campaign in this district that orthodox jews in

particular are frustrated and furious in many cases at this president, at this whitehouse for the policies it's pursuing. and republicans exploited that. they used that to drive turn out much it was a referendum on the gay marriage debate in the state of new york which didn't have anything to do with president obama at all. but that increased the turnout among republicans. so perhaps that's why we shouldt read too much into these in terms of how this is a predictor for next year's elections. because it turned on a couple thin. the jewish concern as well as the gay marriage concern. overall it still speaks to a lack of enthusiasm among democrats. >> charlie: what is it the president has to do in order to come back? >> i think he has to show he's fighting for somhing. he's already don that. he was in north carolina today, ohio and virginia next week.

his style he used so well in 2008. what democrats want to see him do is fight. they want him to push back against these republican policies not be so naive to think they may come on his side of the a. i talked to a lot of democrats on capitol hill about their mood and the word naive came up more than i was expecting in terms of how they view this psident. they want him to be more of a fighter and stand up to republicans in congress. >> charlie: i saw that or read that piece. what was the reaction in the whitehouse? do the people you talk to on the president's side say we get it, we understanand therefore we can change or do they say he is who he is? >> i think the white browse i s -- house is frustrated they're not ging this president more space and time. he had a tough economic condition he didn't create.

this whitehouse is eternally frustrated with democrats. david in particular has said again and again, he's the senior advisers to the president that he please democrats are sort of a party of winers. the that they me they should give him some space. but the whitehouse definitely also recognizes that this mood and feeling is out there in the country among party leaders and among voters. first they have to hear the concerns of the democrats and then win them over. at the end of the day the strategy for the whitehouse is look our guy's going to look better than whoever the republican nominee is and we'll see if that works. >> charlie: let's turn to the two republicans we have now. govern perry in the debate. people look and say it's a twman race, the establishment against almost the inance

surgence is that the way the republican see it. >> the once i talked to are in a window shopping mode. they are not necessarily signing on the dotted line with th. members of congress, some governors say privately they're a little bit worried that governor perry does no have crossover appeal to those moderate independent vots who actual me decide elections. so they are thinking that govern romney looks better and they believe that hes actually a stronger candidate because govern perry's in the race. but there is, we are going to see this sort of continuation of this riff between the activists, tea party mbers some and the party elite, the establishment that is trying to look for a stronger candidate to take on president obama. govern perry still has four eyes here. we're not exactly sure y at the end of all these debates how strong he will look.

>> charlie: as a political reporter, how do you assess his evolution. >> i think he certainly has the retail politics side down pat. if you watch him intact with voters, talk to voters, he has th empathy and concern. his advisors have to acknowledge he has to get better in debates, he has to sharpen his answers, he has to perhaps not smirk as much. he is tapping into, he is a representative of this anger and discontent that's very much alive in the republin party. so what you hear in washington, some concern among republicans is not echoed when i travel across the country and talk tz some republican voters they like what they see frankly, they view him as strong. we'll see how he does in this next debates over the next three weeks. >> charlie: he's coming to new york next week to raise money, the heart of wall street and a lot of other. >> he i and he's trying to make his case by saying i'm the strongest

rson that this party can put up against president obama. this is going to be aefining election, you want somebody different than him, not someone who is more similar. so he's been thriving and eager to take on mitt romney directly. and that's the case he's making in board rooms and to republican donors that he's the strongest candidate who is the most defining difference. he talks about healthcare and other things. when i say he's evolving, he's really been in this race for only 33 days which is pretty extraordinary when you think about it. >> charlie: and lead the polls. >> and he does lead the polls, right. >> charlie: and he's got a lot of money does he not. >> he's been doing very well in fund raising. we're going to fine out exactly how much at the end of this month. but just anecdotally talking to republican contributors and donors he's done very well in this firstonth. >> charlie: i assume because of the success we dope expense to see anymore candidates

there's nobody else like govern christy come in. >> i think at th point iould be surprised to see anyone else get in with the sex ception of potentially sarah palin. body knows exact here at she's going to do. i don't know governor istity how many times he can say it. time is actually running out. people are already gathering signatures to get on the ballot in states like virginia and illinois. it's difficult. i think we've seen watching these debates how difficult it would be for a governor to get up to speed on these issues, foreign policy issues and other things. i think it's too late. >> charlie: when will you see other candidates on the debate platform a couple that's ago. newt gingrich or michele bachmann began the say if they will it's time to go. >> i think it's different by the different candidates. some candidates like speaker gingrich are there simply for the debates. he doesn't have that much of a

campaign apparatus and that much campaigning going o he may well stay just to influence the conference. some of the other kpped dates who are drugly toaise money my drop out or not. michele bachmann is really centering all of her effort and focus on iowa. and we'll see how much, how her fund raising report is at the end of this month. and that will dictate whether she can precede. governor huntsen is in a precarus situation. he had to put his own money in this campaign. i think time is short for him to ma, he knows he needs to make some type of move up here or possibly out. >> charlie: when you say he didn't do well in the debate is that because there was a conventional wisdom assessment by political reporters that he didn't do well, or is that an admission by his own staff that he didn't do well? >> it was an admission by some of his advisors that they thought he missed an

opportunity. that's subjective but miss an opportunity to really define himself and inject himself into the conversation. of crse that's his burden. it was a tea party debate so that audience was not as proud but it was more than his jokes falling flat which they did. it was the fact he was you able to make his argument and become part of the conversation. a couple of his top advisors and supporters i talked to say they were disappoted and in fact he was sappointed in his debate performance. >> charlie: so the decision for sah palin, does it depend on how much traction governor perry gains? >> i think that is perhaps part of it. but she is increasingly taking on governor perry and using this lie that she's been saying cry capitalism. she is sort of questioning his ethics and whether any of his

campaign contributions have caused him to act unethically in any way. i think she's watching him but she's also been watching the rise of michele bachmann. she sort of taking that space or not. most people who after you listen to a speech by sarah palin i saw her in iowa over the labor day weekend and thought wow maybe she's going to run. but she has no follow through, she doesn't do anything beyond just give that speech. i think she's said she'll make a decision by the end of september, early october. so we'll see what she does. but even her supporters will say that time is probably running short for her as well. >> charlie: jeff zeleny thank you so much. pleasure to have you here giving us an update where we stand in this campaign getting mo momentum every day. thank you. >> charlie, thank you. >> charlie: for every two

dedes peter saweddenberg has driven films. the "new york times" say he may have zigzagged out of the movie mainstream in the course ohis career but he remains matched by very few of his peers as an experimental filmmaker. e movie contagion. here's a trailer for theilm. >> a ground breaking ceremony. >> he didn't see anyone while he was sick. >> it was jet lag. the average person touches eir face three to five times every waking minute. in between we're touching door knobs, water fountains and each other. >> so we have a virus no treatment protocol and no

vaccine was done. after last night there were 32 cases. >> unfortunately she did die. >> right. your wife is dd. >> what are you talking about. what happened to her? what happened to her? >> birds are doing it >> watch this. it's transmission. we just need to know which direction. >> there were two people and then four and then 16. in three months, that's where we're heed. >> they're calling the national guard and calling the preside underground. >> it is being kept from the world.

>> it's an emergency >> you can't get him now. i'm going to get you all. >> i have people, we all do. >> don't talk to anyone, don't touch any. stay away from other people. >> charlie: joining me are steven soddenberg and peter bart -- come sulted on this movie. more about that later. i am pleased to have all of them at this table to talk about this

movie and what they hope it means and accomplishes. >> thanks. >> charlie: so you have made every kind of movie there is possible to make. what kind of movie is this? >> well one of the thing i'm always looking for is a world that i haven't personally explored before. >> charlie: like drug trafficking. >> yes. this was a subject that scott raised the idea. well i hen't seen this movie in a while. and we're going to take the approach that it should be ultra realistic, that could be scary. scary movies are good. >> charlie: so it's a scary thriller? >> well, yeah, scary in the sense that the most coon thing that you do, for instance like that, can result in your death. and that the villain is invisible. >> charlie: and you can get it by touching something sobody else has touched. >> yes, and we do all the time. >> charlie: when did you get involved in this.

>> when steve and i were finishing the informment and we'ving flying around a lot on theirplanes. there's a scene in the informant where theharacter goes off on a ran when he was handed on the phone that someone sneezed and he said i'm going to get it and my kid is going to take it to school. that's been lurking around in my muhammad for a while. as we were finishing the movie steven sort of said what else do we have. have it in reality rather than divine retribution. >> charlie: that's wh i'm trying to get at. this notio of where does your obsession somehow make this different than just say a scary movie about a real issue. >> i think we wanted to make a scary movie but we wanted it to be based in real he a. most of these other movies involve human kind being punished. we share, we share the planet with viruses and we went on this

adventure where we're going to try and find signs. >> charlie: that's where he comes in. >> yes. >> charlie: what do they say to you when they called you. >> i heard of steven but i didn't know scott. >> charlie: i heard of scott and didn't know steven. >> there you go. scott called me up and he and i talked about, garrett, about the possibilities of this movie. i was engaged because they wanted to make a solid movie and it was an opportunity to teach. where the weaknesses in the system, how can we improve what we do and reduce morbid mortality. after all i'm a public health guy, that's what i do. >> charlie: where are the weaknesses. >> the weaknesses in our ability to detect, detect the agents before they move in the human body can to that and we can model where they're likeow to occur. finding new ways to recognize

th. that is to use modern dynastic test so we canake vaccines more quickly. it takes us six months to produce a fl vaccine. we can probably do that in a matter of weeks. a matter of resources and comment to do so. >> charlie: how long have you been able to do that. that really is a critical issue. >> i would say over the past five years, that technology has moved so rapidly that if we had the will, we could prevent epidemics, pandemics lik the ones described in this film. we have to allocate the resources. so the script that scott has put together in the film that steven has brought to life, highlights this in a way that i could never do. >> charlie: tell me the story that we're telling here. >> basically -- >> charlie: you see a woman dying in the early minutes. >> yes.

it's sort of partially a story about genealogy and we see a woman die at the beginning of the movie. >> charlie: gwenyth paltrow. >> she's. and the cdc is supposed to figure out what happened to her. while that's going on the movie sort of goes at a pretty high speed. elsewhere in the world we see other sort of clusters in the disease beginning to tak hold. >> charlie: tell me what this virus that you have focused on. >> i came to ian and said you have to help me build a virus that is credible and also a virus that might for a time be sort of disguised as something else. he walks into an emergency room thousands of miles away from somewhere someone might have contracted it that would take a doctor a little while to figurate out. so we came up with something kind of a virus based on mapa that really does exist in the

world and he can do a better job explaining than i can. >> charlie: how do these viruses get started. >> they a reservoir species. for this one it's bats. a lot of theseviruses coming from, as human bngs move into these spaces, the margins between us and the wild world shrink so people come in contact with livestock, animals and periodically we see these viruses jump into e human specs. >> charl: you have a huge broad canvas here you're writg, it's international. it haso do with scnce and cdc and with interesting characters, it has to do with transmission and the fear that comes when something like this happens. so what's the challenge here. >> well the challenge is to avoid the cliches that tip typy scare this modern film away. as i saidto scott, i want it to

be intimate and personal. we sort of drew up a list of things that we didn't want to do in the film. for instance, cutting to a shot of paris even though none of our characters ever go there. i don't want to do that. i don't i don't want to see the president. we made a list of thing we had seen before. the film begins to be defined sort of by what you don't want it to be. and also, very late in the process while we were watching the fallt from h1n1 which was happening while we were developing the script. >> charlie: tell us what h1n1 is and what. >> h1n1 was an influenza virus. >> charlie: scared the hell out of us. >> scared the hell out of everybody and people in public health have been criticized about it. i don't agree with that. >> so one of the things we caught

while that was going on was this other velocity that was emerging through the story that sort of very critical, very suspicious scene conspiracies, and so that's whenhe jude law -- he puts pressure on our characters because he's constantly pounding them. y got his own agenda he's promoting and that was a beautiful parallel -- >> charlie: that all drug companies are bad. >> yes, pretty much or at least out for themselves. it was a great parallel between the way his information spreads and the way the virus spreads. we thoughthat was a really nice dovetail. >> charlie: here's what's interesting about the telling of the story. you've got all these characters and how do you have such a wide canvas to write on that you can

make sure it doesn't get lost in terms of such a big subject so that you cape it personal. >> it's called sweating in the editing om. >> charlie: is that what that is. >> it really is. >> charlie: that's where you make it happen. >> we had i would say close to an hour of edited sertion that's not in film. i had more that i presented, over 20678 so a lot of trial and error trying to find that balance between character and narrative, trying to keep the movie moving as quickly as the virus. and havi enough science to maker -- make you feel but not make you fade away. >> charlie: your preference is character over narrative. >> yes, always. i think people connect with stories but they connect with

people first. you look into people's eyes. this is how we judge them. >> charlie: whether they're alive or paying attention or whether they have something. >> yes. that's where we started before we even had a plot. who are w following. d that's the discussion of well, what happens. what's the reality. >> charlie: that's an interesting point. >> i can think of these characters representative of people i anyway. every single one of them. >> charlie: all the doctors. >> all the doctors and all the scientists and jude law's character. we've seen em all. we've seen people selling false medication, false hope. people with autism. >> charlie: in terms of trying to protect their own mily. >> it's very real. the oth thing which scott did which i very much appreciated was the point was very democratic. just because you're a star doesn't mean you can't get sick and die. >> charlie: well we

experience a pandemic. >> i think we have epidemics. the problem with the permanent pan -- pandemic is all over the world. it doesn't tell you what causes the disease. the h1n1 was all over the world but it didn't have the ability to cause serious disease than the seasonal flu. it takes many americans and more globally. >> charlie: sometimes people write movies and say paris is a character. is this a movie in which virus is a character. >> yes. i mean i think it is insofar as it becomes a blank screen on to which people can project their fears, you know. it becomes a way of people's paranoia being exposed. the symptoms of the virus go

beyond its physical sytoms. >> charlie: what was the hardest part of putting this narrative together for you. >> when steven, i share steven as sort of a committee for character when i write over plot as well. and i think you have to land all the characters but you had to land them all in diffent places that were true to their own stories. >> charlie: and they were real and romantic and not just contrived by a filmmaker. >> in the even it became like writing ur different movies, each with major chacters. >> charlie: what's interesting about this is you love process. >> yes. so this to me was a procedural and one that i had, like i said, it was a world i knew nothing about when we started. this is why this is the best job in the world to hit this sort of immerse yourself in a subject,

you get to talk to people like ian. and i really enjoy that. and this is, the other thing that struck me about it, this is the kind of story movies do really well. it needs to movie. it has to travel. you want to show things instead of explaining them. it just struck me immediately as good movies. >> charlie: i thought beyond that the virus. the other character that was science. what you really do get from this, and you know, if it's real you deserve some of the credit. otherwise we should say why not. you get the sense what the siems is about and you get the sense about the purpose o scice and all that. just the idea of how they went out looking for the virus. how do y identify the virus and what was the process that led it from hong kong.

>> this is going to be sufficiently exciting that more kids want to go into science and engineering and public health. because the real heroes of this film are in fact the people who address this pandemic. >> charlie: who are obsessed. >> who are obsessed at whatever price, personal or otherwise is required to address it. i just want to say one thing about making a movie with steven. even though i haven't made movies with anybody el. it's a he have dynamic set. although there's a script, as he's working through this because he's behind the camera as well as directing, as well as anticipating what's going to be edited, h continually prodding consultants, scott, others for ideas, making modifications, so it's a very fluid process. it's like a jazz piece. there's a theme but he varies it. >> charlie: i thought you

were getting bored making movies. >> no, not bored. >> charlie: how would you characterize it as. >> frustrated. hitting my capability. >> charlie: you don't think you can do better than you've done. >> not in this current configuration. that means i need to stop and sort of tear it all down and start over. >> charlie: how will you do that? >> i don't know. >> charlie: that's where you are in your life. >> yes. it has to be done. >> charlie: you're not looking at another movie. >> i've got a couple things to finish and then i'm going to take an extended break. >> charlie: to do what? >> i don't know. >> charlie: talk to people. >> yes. >> charlie: think about thing. >> absolute me. >> charlie: write and see at you think. >> i love talking to other alterrists and other media. >> charlie: where would you recommend he go for this. >> i think the mayo clinic. [lghter]

>> we'vead this conversation. >> charlie: i'm interested. so is the doctor. maybe he has the virus. >> i think anybody who does this, especially who does it at the level has did you it for a long time and i think especially you're your own cinema togopher and you're editing your own work you can get caught in the feedback loop of yourself. i think as the creative person, you want to go and getnew information. and times that means you have to go d maybe that's paint or teach. >> charlie: you'd think that by spending more time focused on instant aing you'd discover something about the creative process that might even send you back to making movies. >> it would be really good for me to work on something that

scares m that requires the kind of dedication that i've put in to making films. if i treat another art form as though i just got out of high school and i have to put in 10,000 hours that's good for me. i have the opportunity to do that and i would be dumb not to take it. >> charlie: do you get this. >> in academia, we have sabbaticals. >> charlie: it's to recharge. >> to recharge and reset and renew. and i think he's entitled. he has tenure. >> charlie: it's interesting about you. steve and scott, help me out on this. if you look at the art of your own sort of career, you all clearly experiment. you are a guy, you knew you could do that. >> yes. >>harlie: you understood chemistry of people and all that and you understood that that was more powerful than just narrative.

>> right. >> charlie: how to make it anderson, how to make it attractive, how to make it compelling, how to give it glamour. there are other times you made thinthat people have said i admire him for trying but what the health is he doing. >> yes. i'm just, i'm restless. i t bored very quickly. i'm always looking for a new -- i feel like every movie should annihilate the one you made just before. so i want to switch itut. >> having worked with him on a few movies. >> charlie: more than two. >> yes. he was a producer on a movie that i direcd. and before i went to shoot that movie i was asking for advice and i said it would be great to go onset a watch you and he said i don't think you're going to learn anything by watching me. and he's kind of wrong about that. i think what i learned was that

you have to show up and try and get inspired. a lot of people show up for the day with their shot lists and their story boards. and it's because steven's been on the set so long he doe't have to do that. for me it was instructive to show up and be in the moment and watch the actors and make the movie on that day. not before. >> if you have an interviewer who isn't ask follow up questions, they have their list, that would be, i could never do that. i'm all about the llow up. >> charlie: i couldn't either. >> yes. >> i mean he would say annihilate. i think the next thing you do in many ways remedial. i think if you've done something serious like it was really, i remember when we were talking at the beginning of the informant. >> charlie: how many hours was james. >> four and-a-half. >> charlie: you made it four

and-a-half hours. >> i was really looking forward to the informant and being able to do a comedy and something where steven's point of view about comedy is we should movie really fast through our days and you shouldn't labor because if you're laboring then it's probably not going to be funny. so i think they become remedial. >> charlie: i'm fascinated by e whole idea trying to find out who you are and what you're about and how you can change and whatnot. and whether it'ssychiatry or whether it's something else. but i would love to do a program in which you would have a conversation real and serious anauthentic about the kind of thing we talk about with people, somebody who knows somebody let's assume that your expertise was not in terms of what it is but in terms of the kind of issues that have to do with being motivated to do one thing or another and finding within you what it is that gives you great satisfaction. that's great. >> it is.

and it is beyond. >> there's a book called beginning of infinity and basically its premise is that new knowledge is infinite. that there's always something you're going to find out and that's all the approach i've taken toward my job and which is why i need to go away and sort of ask some more questions. but i believe that. the goal to me is not to figure out some formula, it's to keep evolving. >> charlie: you hope people come away from watching this film from what response? >> i thi a few things i want to them to get. number one i want them to appreciate the fact we do things differently. there's a whole bunch of thins that would take us an hour. number two, scientists in public health practic people are heroes. they need to be recognized as such. and we need new blood, we really

do. we need to juvenate that. >> charlie: we need the best and brightest to go into public health. >> exactly, if they're not going to filmmaking. >> charlie: right. or wall street. >> that's awhole separate issue. i ink those are probly the two most important think weeed to focus on. and i will leave it with that. but i wanted to come back to one thing you just mentioned about shifting gears or changing. as we live longer, it perfectly reasonable to have a second life where you to something completely different. the whole field of sociology was discovered by somebody who changed his mind at the age of 40 what he wanted to do. he didn't want to be a lawyer anymore. there's a tradition for this and there are people who left law. maybe there's a theme there to become painters. >> charlie: and they've opened restaurants. >> it's not a mid life crises. it's a mid life opportunity. >> charlie: will you come

back. >> always. >> charlie: great to meet you. a pleasure. scott. >> a pleasure. >> charlie: much success. >> ina caro is here, and her husband robert traveled to paris together for the first time in 19 74. it was love at first sight. they went back many times to explore the country by car ask then most recently by train. they tription spked the idea for her new book paris through the past. it offers 25 one day train trips departing from the capitol and transports you through 800 years of history. a pleasure to have you at this ble. great to see you. >> thank you for having me. >> charlie: bob caro, your husband is one of our favorite guests. you begin to th dedication for bob. this is not an age when prince charming idealistic knights and

true love at first sight was taken seriously. i fell in love with bob being my prince charming ever since and i thank him for not changing into a frog and came to me as sleeping beauty with a thousand castles so magical that fish and asparagus taste better than cake. wow. this love affair is something else, isn't it. >> absolutely. >> charlie: tell me the first time you went to paris with him. >> well, bob said that we would go to paris as soon as he finished power broker. charlie: robert moses story. >> he says it would take him about nine months to finish and we would still have enough left of the small advance he got to go to paris. it didn't take him nine months, it took seven years. during those seven years w were real close.

when he finished the new york bought it. >> charlie: for an excerpt. >> for an excerpt, a long one. we went to paris the next day. we didn't even stop to meek a reservation at the hotel. bob asked the stewardess on the plane where we should stay in paris. we left so fast. >> charlie: did she say where she suggested or did you find another place. >> we did but we didn't stay there the second time we went to paris. >> charlie: how many times have you been since. >> i don't know. we've gone just about every year since then except for last year when we went to rome. >> charlie: and this year? >> this year we haven't gone. >> charlie, going to paris this year. >> i hope so. >> charlie: and it means what to both of you? >> we just love paris. we love walking along the street, we love walking along at night looking at the lights and going to the museums. eating in the wonderful restaurants. and in this book, taking trips

out of paris and always coming back to paris. >> charlie: you're the great plotter of that. >> yes. >> charlie: that's your thing. you figure out where you're together to go and how long it's togeer to take to get there. and you make it a journey into french history. >> right. we start, i try to do day trips om paris. >> charlie: you will be back on earlier bed at night. >> i want to be back inaris at night usually in time for dinner. >> crlie dinner being at 9:00 or so. >> maybe a little earlier. at a nice french provincial restaurant. it's very important to have a good meal when you're traveling. >> charlie: indeed. so the first book was about traveling by car. >> right. >> charlie: what was it called. >> it was called the road from the past, traveling through history in france. >> charlie: the cd -- idea for that book is i'm going to

show myself and my husband the history of france. we're going to read the books at describe it, we're going to vit the cathedrals they worship and we're going to go see where history was made. >> i thought we would start in province where it was settled by the romans and then go to the middle ages. then traveling north to the renaissance, the early renaissance. and them the age of louis the 14th outside perhaps, paris. >> charlie: so when did the idea for this come. >> well, what happened with this is that bob and i rented an apartment in paris. not a bad idea at all. but it did have a problem. a very serious problem becse we looked out over the seinn.

so the problem was how can we still see paris and go to all the places i want to go. >> charlie: i know the answer, train. >> yes. the first trip is by metro to the 12th century. 18 minutes to the 12th century. and most of the tps are an hour or less. you go to i think one of the longest trips is to the reformation in law rochelle. >> charlie: if was beyond the day we don't go. >> this is true. if it was beyond the day, i didn't include it in the book. i travel chronologically through the history of france starting in the 12th century the rst book i started in the first century but this one i start in the 12th century with the beginning of the monarchy. >> charlie: do you read book together or do you read the books and tell him what he's going to see. >> well, a lot of them are based

on memoirs. he's writing about lyndon johnson. >> charlie: of course you do, robert moses. >> i been his researcher on both. >> charlie: i know, as he so well documents. could not have done it without you. >> i couldn't have done this bookithoutim because he has such a marvelous idea for beauty. he just reacts to it so marvelously and it inspires you. >> charlie: he is your prince. >> he is my price. >> charlie: how long have you been married. >> i've been married sips i was 16 -- i met him when i was 16. but i've been in love with him since i was 16. >> charlie: now here's what i don't believe. i never leave these stories. you see him and you tell somebody i'm going to marry him. >> i did. i was with another guy at a mixer at princeton and i was 16.

>> charlie: you were at 16 at princeton. >> i was the at princeton, the guy i was with was at princeton and i saw bob across the room. and i said that's the person i'm going to marry. i just felt it. >> charlie: without even knowing him. >> without even knowing him. >> charlie: never heard the sound of his voice. you just saw him. >> i was double dating with my friend. >> charlie: right, right. so of all the things you've done here what's the most interestingment take me on a journey you love. is it versaille >> i think the triompe it's just as beautiful as server -- vers. i don't like to look over

someone's shoulder as they're painting. >> charlie: that's the magic of france, you can find so much great food and culture that's apart from paris. >> absolutely. >> charlie: it's not just versailles and places like that. >> like versaille we went to so many years ago, it was nderful. it was a magical experience. but when we of we went back recently, there were so many lines, i stayed in the garden. >> charlie: you stayed at five or six hotelou love in paris. >> no. we i've been renting apartments. >> charlie: you always rent an apartment. >> yes. >> charlie: why do you do that? >> wl, i used to stay in hotels, and i wasn't really crazy about paris. and then someone toldus about this marvelous apartment overlooking the seinne and we rented it and i just fell in

love with paris and i never wanted to leave. >> charlie: never athe same apartment, different apartme. >> no. i rented that apartment for 13 years until the man die that opened it. >> charlie: and sold it to somebody or the estate sold it. >> the estate sold it. >> charlie: you should have bought it. >> i couldn't afford it. it was a six room apartment with a dining room and the living room with a view of notre dame. there was no way we could afford it. >> charlie: who is your favorite french writer. >> that's a hard one. what i've been reading are the memoirs of oral lauren, at each place i would read a memoir. memoirs of -- >> charlie: bob is a bigfan of napoleon. >> yes. >> charlie: why >> bob likes, are interested in

men in politics and power and i think napoleon symbolizes that too. >> charlie: indeed. has he ever thought about writing a book. >> i tried to get him to write a book about napoleon. >> charlie: when is he going to finish the book on lyndon johnson. >> i'm not sure. >> charl: is he sure. >> no. >> charlie: what's life like when he's writing. does he have normal conversations and normal meals. >> we don't talk about lyndon johnson ever. not ever. when i do research for him i figure through osmosis what he wants to get because he never likes to talk about what he's writing about. >> charlie: why. >> he feels if h talks b it won't come out as good when he's writing it.

>>harlie: i would ask him the same question about you but he's not here. so what's his, what makes bob caro the great bioaphe that he is, hard work, attentio to detail, he does a thousand interviews, he reads erything. >> he's such a great writer. it just brings everything to life. i just think he's a novelist. >> charlie: he can put you in the moment. >> right. even with me, we go like to a place like fountain and just makes everything so exciting. i don't think that johnson and anybody else would be as exciting. >> charlie: johnson would be a different subject in somebody else's hands. >> i think so. >> chaie: the johnson people in the beginning, it was

around johnson in the first volume was crazy. >> well, they didn't like it. i don't think they -- i still think the daughters don't like it. >> charlie: is that right. >> yes. i don't know why. because i really don't understand why they don't like the book because he's made johnson somebody that you can read about. >> charlie: oh. how do you think the biographer feels about the subject. >> that he's fascinating. just fascinating. >> charlie: the most fascinating president we've had in terms of just complexity and interest. and huge flaws. >> it isn't a question of liking or disliking, but i mean the way he gets bills passed, the way he does things. nobody's done that and can do it the way johnson do. >> charlie: in paris, your favorite museum the louvre or something else? >> the museum --

>> charlie: interesting. >> i love 19th century artists and i just love that museum. >> charlie: you love the left bank. >> i love the left bank. since the first year we stayed in paris, first year we were on the rit bank. >> charlie: your favorite historical figure is napoleon r someone else? is it a woman. >> no, it's not a woman. it's henry iv. >> charlie: wow. >> i just love. i mean he just, he's just so full of love. love for women, love for places, created the -- he created the place -- that's one of the places i love best in paris. and i think he has a twink. >> charl: and your favorite

restaurant? >> that's hard because -- >> charlie: there's so many. >> most of my favorite restaurants have closed. >> charlie: this is a wonderful book pairls to the past traveling through french history by train. it's something anybodyan do. you can take the lead here and go and see and take a wonderful juriy and be back in paris for dinner. thank you. >> thank you. >> charlie: a pleasure.

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