>> this is beyond a doubt the most precisehing, one of the most beautiful things we've ever made. glass on the front and the rear, and stainless steel running around. and the precision of which in is made is, is beyond any nsumer product we'v ever seen. it's closestin is lik beautiful old leica camera. it's unheard of in consumer products today. just gorgeous. and it's really thin. this is the new iphone 4. >> rose: an appreciation of steve jobs next. funding for charlie rose was provided by the following:

rr. >> rose: additional funding provided by these funders: captioning sponsored by rose communications from our studios in new york city, this icharlie rose.

. is there anything better that can be said about a person than that they changed the world and made it better and more interesting? steve jobs was such a man. he died wednesday at his home in california at age 66. here's what walter isaacson, the soon to be released biography said on jobs sa in "time" magazine this week. the saga of steve jobs is a silicon valley creation myth writ large, launching a stt-up in the proverbial garage and building it into the world's mt valuable company. he didn't innt many things crout right,ut he was a master at arranging ideas, art and technology in ways that repeated invented the future. jobs thus became the greatest business executive of our era, the one most certain to be remembered a century from now. history will place him in a pan theo right next to thomas edison and henry ford. more than anye else of his time, he me products that

were cpletely innovative, combining the beauty of poetry and the power of processors. tonight we continue our appreciation of eve jobs. we will hear from friends who knew him, journalists whoever kodd him and t generation of entrepreneurs following him. steve jobs offered lessons for business, innovation and leadership and also for living. this week many are quoting his 2005 commencement speech at standford university, and we will too later. tonight a remembrance of a man from our archives. you will hear from a number of interviews over the years in which i asked the question, what makes steve jobs, steve jobs. tonight we'll hear from eric schrith-- schmidt, the chairman of google, t founder of necessary scape. i spoke with him on the day steve jobs died from bloomberg television. then we will show excerpts from my earlr broadcasts of guests talking about jobs. as you will see, steve jobs came up often. >> i became, eric, with this obvious queson. what's his legacy? >> i am sure he will be

remembered as the 2k3wr5e9est-- greate computerntrepreneur in history. i doubt anyone will be able to do 9 things that he's done. remember, he did them twice. first in building the first veion of apple and then the second one. he will also be seen as the person who pfectly merged art and science in a community that doesn't have a lot of artists. in many ways, he proved that artists win and nerds don't. i've never seen anyone with those skills. and i am concerned we'll never see anyone like that in the future. that's how profound steve's artistic and technology union ally was for all of us. >> rose: what was his passion? >> when i spent time with steve he talked a lot about solving end user problems, solve computer problems but doing it in an artistic way. he saw beauty as a part of

everything he did. if you look at his history, he viously was involved with pixar and movies and so forth. he cared a lot about how the average person, the average human around the world consumed things. was it beautiful, was it artistic, was it clever. if you look at the apple stores and the art there, over and over again he is a combination of technology and artists. an analogy would be from history would michelangelo who did both. there were very, few such people in history. >> rose: it is often said about him that he understood design better than anybody else. and in saying that, some people did not recognize that he understood techlogy. you are a technologist. you are formally a chief technology officer at sun miosystems and have d a distinguished career and came out of that kind of academic background. steve had a different academic background but most people in technology gave him credit for his understanding what about

technology. >> steve was so brilliant that he was able to actually stay in those fields, that is what was so extraordinary. when he was running next, i and people from sun microsystems were walking on-- programming including people who had done research and pts went to visit him. he spent an hour explaining what he was doing with such passion that he convinced us that he was right. and took us another half an hour to find any holes in his argument. he saw us confirming and ran out to convince us even more so. that was the level of depth that he understood technology. i think that people without say that he was an artist and not a technologist don't understand how hard it is to build the products that apple under his leadership d, in terms of scale and power and so forth. he understd everything that the computer scientists were doing and drove them as hard as as he drove his artist frien too. >> and also understood

marketing. >> obviously he understood the notion. he was a showman in that sense. the unveils. at the board meetings, for example, he would love to have all the new products and unveil them one by one and talk about how they from going to change the world. he took great pride in the products that were built and that we all use today. >> it is said that he didn suffer fools easily. >> i think all such creative people are so passionate that they don't have a lot of time for people who sort of don't get it and i think it's fair to say that he was one of those people. steve, however, inspired great loyalty among the people who worked for him. and people who worked with him. and if you look, the going on from his former and current employees at apple and the hane many people that have worked with him and know him closely indicate that while he certainly had strong opinions about things, you could talk to him. you could-- he would listen to you. especially if you were right.

>> what's interesting to, this evening, is that most of us, most of us are directly connected to him because we have an i pad. we have a phone. we have a mac computer. we know an understand what he was about because we can see it and hold it and feel it. >> well, in that sense i think the artist role makes a lot of sense. he's the first person to takeomputing and computing platforms and make products that actually cause people to fall in love, in love with their products, in love with the artistry, in love with using information. and that i think his primary contribution. he also of course has changed the urse of history with the kinds of things he's done with respect to the scale of the platforms that were built at apple. but i think ultimately if you look at the success of the ipod, for example, which everybody saidcouldn't be done, or the success of the iphone really brought in the smart phone revolution and invented it, he will get the credit and he and the teams

that he lead deserve that credit for doing this. >> it is often said as well that he was not a guy that did a lot of testing. he was not trying to find out what the market wanted. he wanted touild sometng that he knew if the market saw it, they wld want it. it was creing a need. >> yes. it, what's important about this particular founder is that a particularly good sense of what people wanted from technology, because they wanted to solve real problems. and would famously for example, not add a second button to the mouse because the mouse only needed one button. for a while his computers didn't have cd drives. he didn't see the need. and at approach, that sort of tough love approach worked. because he was able to sort of capture the imagination and solve the problems in a different way. apple-- . >> rose: so-- within apple as a company has that abity to move its customer base forward in a wayhat

the personal computer industry largely has not. >> rose: you were on his board. >> that's correct. >> rose: what was that like? >> wel it was great fun angreat honor for me. one of the things that i think is worth saying is that he did suffer at som times during his illness. and i think none of us would want to go through the suffering that he went through. and i think tha in his legacy we need to recognize his courage in the face of his own mortality and his own health. and this went on for six or seven years under extraordinary difficult medical situations he lived as far as i know as long as anyone could with the medical diagnosis he did, and with tremendous courage, most of us have not heard about. >> did he talk about his own mortality? >> we talked a little bit about what it was like to go through the medical procedures that he went through. and we would talk about sitting on his back porch and appreciating t sunshine and the fresh air

and looking at the flowers. and i think that if there was any person in the world that understood the value of life, it was steve jobs. >> rose: i mean, he often would say in talking about his illness, you know, you've got a sense of optimism, somehow, that he believed that he could overcome this. was that simply for the benefit of others or di he believe that somehow because he believed in science and technology, and believed that there were solutions to problems, that he might survive this. >> you know, i think of steve as our country's greatest innovator. d in his illness i think he believed, like with many other things, that with sheer passion and sheer force of will, tse were overcomeable. and i think the quality of his life at the end and his ability of discipline really sort of showed those characterists. and those are characteristics that all of us should admire. >> when he, when he was

dealing with products, i've heard these anecdotal stories. there was a perfectionist. a man who looked at what was possible and insisted that it could be done. and even though you, or not you but someone working with him might get a 2 a.m. phone call saying wh about this, and steve would insist that he wanted it done even though the person buying the product might not know or might not even care. but he cared that it be the way that he thought it could be, the way he imagined it in his own mind. >> this is a man who understood detail. and he cared the way an arti car about every brush stroke. so it was important that everything be perfect whether it's the packaging or the distribution or the brandingr the software working and so forth and so on. he spent hours and hours preparing, for example, for his preparation. and over and over again would bring his staff up to the level of his presentation skills. over and over again. over and over again, steve

showed that this sort of obsession that he had around quality and beauty could be translated into the execution of the company. >> is there anybody like him that you know? >> i do not. and again, hopefully in the future there will be other leaders as great with a greater sense of beauty and taste as steve. he talked a lot about where that came from. it came from his early youth. that he actually cared about fonts and characters and leg a turs and all the other things being invented at the time. >> rose: he also has talked about in the famous standford commencement speech, remembering stewart brand's famous words. said stay hungry and stay foolish, but in a commencement speeches that's remembered by all of usho give commencement speeches as almost as good as it can get. he understood how telling stories of life experiences, looking at where you failed,

or where you inspired, was the way to connect and bring in the human element. >> i think one of the things about great leaders is that they learnrom the data before them. they learn from their failures. they learn from what worked and what didn't. as products would come along that wouldn't do as well, steve would say we made this mistake. we made this mistake. we figured this. we have this other thing that we want to do. and steve was particularly good at learning from the period that he called in t wilderness when he was at next. and he had a lot of-- he spent a lot of time thinking about what he would do when he got back to apple. and i think that that period of time in his history allowed him to sort sort of think about what it would take to build what is clearly the most valuable technology company in the world today. >> rose: clearly is. so was he unsuccessful at next or would you define that experience as unsuccessful? >> well, he would say that next was before its time. what he did with next is he built a platform that was

very powerful. and the platform at next is in fact the basis of the mac os, they use the same operating system and languages and he was focus on chief-- and so forth. i ink ultimately when people look back he will say the next period was the period of time where he organized his technology vision, he organized his team. and the next team when they went back to apple, were able to very quickly take the technologies he invented at next and take it to what was thfern a lagging software and hardware platform at apple and revitalize telephone. the subsequent transition to the intel platform and the other things that propelled the mac to its current great success are a great success to the architectural decisions he made at next. >> we are joined also, i hope eric will stay with us, mark an creasean, co-founder of an creasean horowitz which su a venture capital firm, but mark an creasean is known as one-- and risean was there when netscape was created.

he has been an early investor in some of the very portant companies that have shaped wall street. i mean have shaped silicon valley and shaped wall street as well. he also new steve very well tell me your own thoughts of what he meant to you personally and what he meant to the way you saw the world that you live in >> yeah, i guess i think eric has had a lot of the things that can be said. the three ways i think i really admired him. one is he was the most amazing product visionary our industry has ever had or probably everill have. i once said that it's when the iphone came out i said it's almost as if the product has been boomed in from, you know, five or 10 or 20 years in the future. and it has just arrived. and nobody in the industry had any idea it was on possible to build anythi like thaand steve, you know, one of the only peop in the history of business who has been able to do that kind of thing over and over

again,umber one. number two, comny. you know he's built an amazing company in apple. you kn, apple today is an unbelievably strg company not just in tms of balance and position in the market, also in th depth of the talent, the culture, the people, the overall approach. i think it's extraordinary well set up to succeed because of steve and the work he put into building the company in the last 15 years and third as a person. he's somebody who, you know, the people who knew him, we'll all tell you the same thing which is he touched people in an amazing way and did amazing things for a lot of people. and a lot of those stories i don't think have been told yet and i'm sure will be in the years ahead. but he's also a great human being. >>ose: what would you add to that list of things, that we don't know necessarily thateflect on his humanity, and his commitment to a world beyond him. >> well, he was a very private individual in a lot of ways. so i don't necessarily have anythi to voluntr right now. but i think over time that

will become more and more clear, you know, what an amazing contribuon to humanity he made in addition to the contributions he made to the industry and to the technology world. >> someone once told me and i don't know if it's te but i thinkhat steve never went to china i mean this place that is having such a hugempact. that his passion and this may have been becausof illness but that his passion was home and family and going to apple to work and to gethings don is that accurate? >> yeah, i think that's right. in fact those of us who live and around palo aalto you could often see steve walking around. when you stop by the apple store and talk to the customers. he was legendary obviously for his work ethic. he spent a tremendous amount of time building apple. he spent a tremendous amount of time working on am el and for apple even in the time that he was unable to be there in person every day. and yes, he was incredibly committed to fami d his-- has an absolutely wonderful family and wife

and three kids. and then daughter from his previous relationship. and who are in their own right just amazing people. and that was the most-- i think mily ultimately was as you would expect the most important thing in the world to him. >> rose: he would get out at standford in and around the community and have dinner with friends and come to your house and other aces. >> i drive up and down embarcadero road in palo aalto all the time and one time i'm booking in my car down embarcadero and i go by this guy and i see out of the corner of my eye, ready to cross the street, black turtleneck, jeans, i'm like my god, i almos hit ste jobs. not uncommon for people to see him walking around like that in palo aalt. >> rose: eric, the question will be raised, what happe to apple after steve jobs, eric? >> tim was operating president when i was on the board. and tim is a very, very capable executive. as you know,he's now

c.e.o.. so i think the gifts that steve has given us will continue for many, many years. the great thing about apple is that the executives are there. they're to the going anywhere. and they've got a very good forward story. so for all of you and all of us who a fans of apple products, i think they'll continue to am could. and they'll do very well. the economic engine that steve built is an amazing one in terms of cash generation, revenue growth, global footprint, distribution, you know, just a great business. one of the great american success stories as a person but also as a company. >> rose: there's also the legendary competitiveness that he had. so you are at googlement and you're at one time c.e.o. at the time i think that you were sitting on the apple bod and then chairman of google. and all of a sudden you have to leave the board because you are going to be in a competitive business. how did that sit with steve? >> well, as part of my joining the board we understood that apple and

google were going to be companies that were going to both partner and compete. and we agreed that if it became more compete than partner it was the right thing to do to split up. so it was all actually very cordial. and steve and i were and remain good friends. and i have just extraordinary respect for his leadership. so on a personal basis it was fine. and i think it was the right thing to be part of apple. it was also the right thing to leave the board when we did. >> rose: did you ever see him angry? >> oh, yes. steve is a man of great passion. and he took a very, very-- . >> rose: you're smiling. >> he took a very strong position about what he wanted, how he wanted. and he was very strong -- for his company. so if you were on the other side of a deal with steve you will have a pretty tough negotiation which is to his credit. he did a very good job for his shareholders. >> rose: marc, ever see him angry. >> oh, yes, absolutely. we often talked out in california, califoia sual, state casual which is a lot of people in

california want to go along, get along, and everybody is nice to each other and smile to each other's faces and when somebody leaves the room they're like oh that guy is a real son of a, whatever. steve is not like that. steve was neverlike that. steve was always told you exactly where you stood, exactly what he thought. so the clarity of the communication that you could have with him, there was no waste of time, no wasted fort. everything was crystal clear. and unbelievably effective and i think that quality permeates all of apple's lture and why they are such an amazing company. >> if you look at steve's ability to negotiate and the ct that he was able to get the historic deals he did with the music industry at the time when it was impossible, that shows you his ability to negotiate deals very, very clever, very, very aggressive for the positions that he wanted. d he typically got them. >> rose: yeah, interesting about that, erics there was great conflict between steve and michael eisner when he was the c.e.o. of disney and they couldn't agree on pixar.

and when -- came in he cultivated steve and they were able to make a dial. >> steve had strg opinions about the structure of the industry. but if you look at the original music deals that he company. they r8 defined a platform of monitor-- modernization of music that people were looking for for years. he literally pushed it himself. he said there will be a platform. this is seven or eight years ago. there will be a platform. you will have this pricing. you will like it, we will make it happen. so he used clever negotiating skills to establish a platform that millions of people use today. and it served as a basis for modernization for content for many years in the future, i think. >> there is also this, marc, his relationip to bill gates. bill gates was, they even made a movie about the two of them. bill gates was coming along when steve originally was in the comput business with wozniak and developing the first apple. and bill gates was developing microsoft and software. what was that? you canive us some

historical perspecti on that relationship. >> yeah, i think that steve and bill gates and andy grove, if you had to pick three peoplewho ilt the computer-- personal computer industry over the last 35 years, in a lot of ways in retrospect the way it will be dcribed is they drove each other to greatness. so there were points in time when one of them or another d to jump strategically or had the bigger market valuation or the bigger revenue. you know, but all three would continuously drive each other to greater and greater heights. and you know, i think that apple was an inspiration to microsoft for many years in terms of the products and over time various resemblances. microsoft was very successful as a business and very successful with their products. when steve came back to apple, steve was determined to make sure that apple would be able to be a ver successful company, and at the time microsoft dominated the world. and did an amazing job doing that to the point where apple is now worth i think what double maybe what microsoft is. and so the result has been just an enormous amount of

pros difficult development for the world, for the economy, and for the industry. the products that were created through that kind of two way or three way dynamic have powered the industry. and made all the other amazing things possible. >> rose: . >> z. >> but what is's even more, if you go back and look at the press in '94 and '95, apple had been completely written off with allegedly near bankruptcy. when steve came in, imagine fighting against those odds as an executive, as a leader, as a person and look at what he achieved in that period. and the reason he was able to do is it he created a product, the mac, that people wanted to buy, correct? >> he had an installed base of people who love the feeling of the mac, but the technology had lagged. a sheer force of will, he built a platform that is now the best in the world for what it does.

>> and what this device does is extraordinary. you can browse the web with it, it is the best browsing experience you have ever had. it's phenomenal to he is a whole web page right in front of you, and you can man itch late with your fingers. it's unbelievably great. way better than a laptop. way better than a smart phone. and you can turn ipad anyway you want. up, down, sideways. it automatically adjusts however you want to use it. and again, to see the whole web page is phenomenal. right there, holding the internet in your hands. it's an incredible experience. >> bause i know him so well, so much of having the mind that wants it to go into the future and use the newer product sooner and go the direction that i would like to go a that the world goes and having a very clear picture of not building new devices but building a system that the human gets the job done, they want to do done with the least.

>> rose: how do you characterize his skills. it's that, being able to look at systems, being able to see markets. and what else? >> well, it's n just markets but it's like look at the i pod. the i pod is not a music device and all the other music systems were mic device, ipod is part of what the human really wants and the human really wants music to your ear. you want to make it easy. apple has the whole system. you click one button to purchase a song, it's on your computer, it's on your ipod. no thinking, no doing. it's that kind of bending the technology. putting a lot of software into making the technology do things that the human really wants. >> rose: is that genius. >> i think more than anything else it's really understanding-- . >> rose: understandi what the human wants. >> yes. and making it as simple so the human doesn't have to tangle with technology and technology terms and techlogy methods a get rid of a lot of that as much as possible. now you you can't do a perfect job ever and you can't do a very good job

thesdays because there is so much pressure to put software out quickly. but at least steve definitely, his thinking shows up in a lot of ale products along those lines and he's had that thinking along with a lot of other of his ways of thinking, really persisted from very early experiences. in his life, in technology, you know. and they really don't go away. and that one i admire the most. >> how would you chacterize the difference between the two ofou. >> oh, i was intent to design products to be part of a revolution that was going to change life for people, to be part of a goodness of humanity with my design that ents as an engineer. i represent the engineer. when we started apple we actually sat down, and said i would be an engineer. steve would learn toe everything in a company and learn to be an executive at that level. mike was experiencing markets and would do the marketing. do at about that time ourselve enyear best friendship split apart a ways. he was a different part of the company. he had different goals. he wanted to change the world. he wanted to bringomputing to the masses. he wanted to make a lot of

money and really all i wanted to do was design the hottest computer where every engier would lk at me and say wow, look at those wires you connected that way, wow, incredible. >> so you look at apple. how much difference one person make when the french fired nap olean after that problem in russia, the-- nap 80ian said, you know, france has more need of nap olean than nap olean has need of france. and -- >> do you buy into that idea? >> i think one person can make a tremendous difference. app ll steve jobs, apple without steve jobs, apple with steve jobs. so pretty clear that the guy is-- he's my best friend. i confess to that. he's an extraordinary human being. not only, i mean the imac was his idea. he didn't build the imac, he didn't do all e work but the idea to build a computer that was different. the think different campaign. >> rose: so basically he had-- this is an interesting study in marketing, what you know something about. this is-- and promotion.

>> i just learned from steve. >> rose: it is the idea that you had to come up with a new idea, a new image, a new sense of this is something, this is a changed circumstance at apple. >> yeah. >> rose: it was a triumph of what they did. >> and apple, the big knock on apple was that it was different than a pc. so steve decided that was our strength and our weakness. so the think different campaign. who are we. we do appeal to people who think differently. the idea that the pc was much more conformist. the apple mac is different. that we think it's dramatically easier to use, it's faster. we tried to make that very clea but it also has a good amount of cache you don't get with those ugly pcs. >> steve jobs we tk long walks on the beach, talking about buying apple and how we might resuscitate it. we came very close. >> did you dece not to

because you tnk it's too late? >> i think, steve decided not to. and i decided to follow steve's lead. i will forever view this as steve's company. apple is steve's creation. the macintosh is steve's computerthe 5el 2, steve's computer. they haven't done much since he left. >> steve has been there for 25 years. incredible man. i mean from the beginning, i said this guy is incredible. and by the way, i never bought a share of apple, idiot i am. complete idiot i am. >> did he ever say you ought to do this because i have ideas that will make a difference, i have an instinct for design. >> yes, yes, comple imbessell. yeah, i knew he was a genius. >> rose: what separates him? >> well i tell you a little story. i have a friend david, a guy who is a professor at standford. he got a phone call a few years ago, 2:00, say hello is steve, are you sleeping but.

>> you cannot sleep, this is very important. >> what is it. >> this is very important. in the back of the ipod, if you open telephone up there are three screws. theyological look ugly, can we put only two. david said why, nobody opens, no, somebody might on, they will see three-- we have to change that. i meaned obssion osteve is beyond what'sormal. bu he's incredible. another time i was in palo aalto and he said john, can you go and see my newhop. so i went, i called him up, said it's fantastic. is thaa vanity thing. >> you're wrong, i'm going to have a thousa of those shops and they will be the most beautiful, interesting shops. >> these are the apple stores. >> yes. and the people who are working there will be people obsessed bapple computers. >> and the design for the one on fifth avenue and 59th street, the way it is out there in that building, one of the great-- in america was his idea. >> absolutely. >> not only did he care about the idea, he cared about the size of it. >> absolutely. he has a-- the man is shall

did -- but the weird thing is you go to his house and sometimes it looks like a hansel and gretel, normal simple house. >> and he doesn't travel much. even before he had illness questions. >> he travels a little bit. >> little bit but not that interested. he, this year he didn't come. last year he came to see me in the sth of france, his wife, wonderful girl and his children. but he's not that interested. he's not an obsessed traveler. he travels. but not -- >> obsessed. but an incredible level of pace and an incredible level, always wanted to progress. >> steve is, i mean he has multiple talents. multiple talents. he ask a true perfectionist. he has an ability to focus on making great things. and not making lot of things. i means that's a gre quality. he is a genius when it comes to design.

he kws how to get the most out of people. he challenges people all the time to fulfill his great dreams and his great ideas. he has ancute awareness of what people want, what customers want. and it sometimes manifests itself in very small ways and sometimes it's large. i remember talking to him about the ipad and it becoming a reader. paging sure you coulread books on it. it was a simple thing, he said you know when you are reading a book and you want to know how many pages you have left. we're going to make sure on the ipad reader you know when you are on a certain page or you can find out very quickly how many pages you have left. that's a small thing. >> rose: attention to detail. >> when you thinabout the many things like that, large and small, and the collection of those on the consumer experience, there's real genius there. al genius once know, the itunes platform which is a wonderful platform, it's not just about the music andhe

hardware or players. it is about that middle ware. that software in the middle th enables you to easily find a song, buy a song, catalog it by putting it in a play list, moving your play lists around, moving the music from one device t the other. there's a brill qant to that. >> apple is the culture of the sun king. and did is a culture -- >> that would be mr. jobs. there around no other. >> and he is a again vows. and by the way he's a bit of a poet too. if you read some of the early interviews he did, like in the playboy interview he did 20 years ago. his use of language and his breath of reading, of novels and stuff, is quite extraordinary. and his awareness of music. he's a very interesting cat but he is a guy who is very controlling. and he talks, no one tks to the press. there's a certain amoun of fear there that you don't see on the google campus at all. and it doesn't mean that larry and serg guy are not

respected but they're not feared that way. and it feelsore like a college campus than i think. >> and apple feels more like what? >> more like microsoft. >> the i phone has the brilliance of steve jobs and his persistence behind it and legacy behind it. >> well, and a lot of smart engineers. >> on all parts. >> but he's the driving force. the thing th i read about steve and you kn him well, is that i mean this is d -- he's like the product manager for this thing. he's not just some c.e.o. sitting in a corner office waiting for reports. >> no, he gets-- you're absolutelyight. he gets very invved in the designf these things. but he-- it's not like he's sitting there and venting it from the ground up. he is very involved he's a product guy. again, at the interview i just did with him earlier in june, he said, he asked my

partner and i who were interviewing him to guess how many committees there are at apple. and we said we didn't know. and he said zero. and i, you know, i don't know if he was exaggerating. but he said zero. and he said the way that he runs the company, he has one three hour meeting a wee where they bring all the heads of the different functions in, the person that is in charge of mac software, the person in charge of iphone and ipad software and the hardware counterpart, the marketing people and they go through every product they do for three hours. and of course heas, i'm sure, other meetings with other people at the company. but he claims to run it even though it's now a very wealthy company, and big company, he claimed to run it as much as possible like a start-up. and it was interesting to hear him say that. >> i will say, however, that the truly creative person in that field is steve jobs. he keeps reinventing industry after industry by

managing things other people don't imagine. so i think steve jobs happens to be a little bit more imaginative than anybody else in the indust. >> well, the, all of these portable devices, both the processors, the processor chips, the computer brain that's in them and the software and the screens and the cameras, and every aspect of them is improving at an accelerating pace. and the competition is fierce. now i give great credit to steve jobs when he did with the iphone because he defined the platform that many companies are still trying to catch up to and emulate. and then the ipad after that. so he's really had, you know, three hit new platform definitions in a row ich is truly, truly amazing. atribute to his foresight to develop consumer products. where do these things go in the future, they will get

better and betr. you will have better speech, understanding, game play, recommendations that come to you instantly as you move around in the world. it's very exciting and i'm excited about that platform andive a got a cple initiatives working on products. >> they're not announced yet. i'm not going to go into detail. >> if you looked at everybody in silicon valley and you look at just in terms of the 21st cenry, steve jobs clearly has tobe number one, doesn't he? >> he is a-- hes an azing genius at defining these new design points for platforms. in the book i talked a little bit about a discussion i had with him between having a two button mouse which wa my preferen and him very intently insisting that no, paul, you don't understand, it's all about simplicity and ease of use and someone's reaction to the first few minutes that they use something. >> fortune pag said steve

jobs was the best c.e.o. over the last ten years. >> when you look at apple and what he has done there, what are the two most important reasons they have been successful in the way that they have. or one or three. >> i think it's a maniacal attention to who he thinks his market is. he defines his market very carefully in tms of the people that would like products that he whether the for himself. you know, i asked him once, you know, i described him the focus group process that we use the intel customer testing. i said what do you use for a focus group. he staed laughing. he said it's us. he said you know if we don't like it none of our customers are going to like it and i think that's a-- . >> rose: he has a golden g part. >> not just him. >> rose:he people around him. >> the apple team. and i think that's a good litmus test for where the company has been. the other thing he has done isot been afraid to challenge other people's industry.

what he did with music, i think a classic example of that. >> an that's the first time somebody has successfully delivered that product, with the past-- . >> rose: what was so different about the iphone that made it sort of a game changer. >> i would say two things. one is it is the first real operating system. i say that sort of sounds like a technical conpt but the first operating system that really makes a lot of applications possible. there are a bunch of technical details. >> rose: a game system within a phone. >> it is actually units, the same operating system that runs banks and airlines shrunk into a phone, is a real operating system and they pack and the whole thing together, including the tool kits to build the application and the way to distribute the applications on to the phone. and that had never been done before. you could have bought a microsoft phone and they never had quite poingt together to build an application, distribute it, sell it and get to the user. >> you have said that iphones are the demarcation point between operating systems and the other problem we have is that there were so many different standards.

>> right. >> in americ unlike eupe so they have got, and japan so they had a huge -- >> thehad a big advantage. so building proprietary systems they had a big advantage because there was a singleind of network. in the u.s. e networks have consolidated. the are much smaller number. but the iphone say central point whereas a developer you carely onthe iphone to be a stable platform for development. so a l of develop ares are doing that. now that the iphone is successful, it paves the way much like the macintosh paved the way for window pcs the way for another set of companies whether microsoft or rim oozens ofthers or start-ups to create new devices. >> rose: by the way, you are one of the people who really do, and i think this is enormous, to give credit to bill gates for developing an operating system that was the standard. and things happened because of that. >> that's a big deal. that's a very big deal and a serious commit. apples had this commitment, microsoft had this commit. you have to have commitment to backyard compatibility. you have to commit to never

break anything. you load up windows vistand and you can run the original advice i qal from 30 years ago. so that is a long-term institutional commitment that takes a serious company to be able to do. and the oppounities, netscape was an applition that got built on that kind platform. the macintosh, the iphone, it's sort of a responsibility for the next set of vendors to do the same thing. >> rose: i just read this week where microsoft has an operating system that they, a mobi operating syste that they are now going to work with lg. >> other people will be doing that. >> they're doing a we a rethink. they've had a mobile strategy for years and windows mobile. they're doing a rethink because they've seen the iphone. >> i think if you look at e ipod it did a couple of things. there were mp 3 players galore before apple got in the business. but what he dids he came out with a great industrial design, very simple operating capability and he also went to hollywood to the content folks and married the great industrial

design with a content, a legal content download system. and he did everything right place at the right time. and that's one of steve's exquisiteharacteristics, knowing timing and pulling that stuff together. >> i think this is another example of something that's fundamental to understand about steve jobs, as a c.e.o.. he is not a market research driven guy. he doesn't want to go out and ask people well, how could we make this a little bit better or what is the next little improvement you would like. he tries to figure out what people don't know they want yet. and then do it, try to do it in abeautiful way, and try to make them want it. and i am probably being the most reserved here tonight because although i diddo agree with david that the feeling is wonderful in the hand, i need to live with

. but i will say he's not shying away from big, bold risks. and that's then true of him whether you are talking about apple or pixar or whatever he's done. it's just the way he operates as a business guy. it also, you know, means that there is a risk of a big flop in some of these products over time. >> the gift i think is recommended-- recognized in the inflection point in time when microsoft came out with the panel, with the tablet computer we were not bathed in wireless everywhere we went. there was not this deep rich content around every corner. it was sort of hard to figure out why would you end up using that. i think steve jobs has, you know, a very good sense of when the right moment occurs, when there's going to be enough content, enough access so that sometng that displays web content, easy to serve way, is going to be extrealue to a

huge cohort of people, not just nerds. >> well, i-- i think those are both good comments. i would say one of the other things that has to be said is he has been willing to take big risks. sometimes when he does things it's a little early, you know. put the cd-rom drive in every mac, and built in sound, i mean this sounds ridiculous but if youre an older person you remember at when pcs were sold they di't have sound cards in them. but macs did. and they had cds. but he also took out the floppy drive about a year and a half before anyone else did. and, so sometimes he can b a little early. and for all of his talent and risk-taking that we've discussed, i think we need to be careful that we don't know if this is going to be a billing hit yet, the ipad that we've been discussing. >> steve jobs is very simply a genius. he has many different things, of course he has talent.

of course he has vision. and he has guts. you know, guts is one of the most important things because you know what, sometimes ideas to some people like him might be a dollar a pound. it's which ones you decide to carry on against which odds that really define you. and gorx i admire a l. >> steve jobs is a brilliant man. and his brilliant-- brilliance is not in the movie business. his brilliance. >> rose: it's not even in technology per se. his brilliance is marketing and understanding of people. >> exactly write. that's what his brilliance is. rticularly in marketing. i mean again they sell 100 ipods a minute. and so we were all brought to think it takes yes and years to eate bonds. and he taught us it is not true at all. you can make an immediate impact. the id that pixars as well-known or better well-known for family entertain than disney is as attorneying. a because they only made 6 movies and b they were

distributed by disney. you do a brand marketing study, pixar is the one. steve jobs and by gatesre kind of the main, the best own fathers of this whole thing. the whole pc revolution which lead to the internet, the digital revolution that we're in. they go back. they know etch other about 30 years. their about the same age. they ever's about 50 now. and these are both people who had their fame begin when they from in their 20s. you know, they had their picture on the cover of "time" magazine when they were in there. and the relationship bween th, they've always had a rivalry. and it has shifted, article-- charlie, at the beginning jobs was preeminent he was hiring microsoft to do some software for the macintosh and so forth. and jobs was the more minor gig. and then jogs outfoxed them on business terms. and you know, bill gates is the richest guy in the world. biggest philanthropist now. >> rose: so of course it was jobs and gates came roaring past him and now jobs has

come up. >> now jobs has had a terrific f years. and it's not that bill gates is not wealthy and powerful and inflntial and his condition and his software are still, but the hotter one in t las fewears in a way has been steve jobs who has taken apple back, to the company founded and was driven out of if, he has revived it built a new operating system and of course the ipod which has just bee revolutionary. >> rose: steve jobs. what genius has he been able to. >> i think it is on multiple connection. i think there is a clear understanding ofhat he's done for design, for product, for product quality, for innovation. i think what is unique about steve jobs is he also is an extraordinary business thinking dr -- thinker. and i said before, he so speaks about his company, his strategy the way he designs products. with regard to product, there is not a wasted

element and with regard to where he wants to take his company, there is not a wasted word. he is the most decisive speakers on business that i have ever heard. i learned enormously from him throh the years just watching him and listening to what he had to say about the way he ran that company. >> i am a big fan of steve jobs. >> rose: why steve jobs. >> well, i think that he has amazinvision around what consumers in life, when you look at prediction and the trends that you saw, down to the mouse, where yes, there might have been other people whinvented those ings and got them started. but he could recognize a trend at would catcon with computers. the same way with the ipod andix phone. i think he has a great eye for what consumers want. i also think he's amazing at talking about really economy kated technology in a way that people understand. >> because w assume he is 99% mketing and hardly technical. >> i've met with steve jobs. and if utah talk to him

about technology, right, like the resolution on a video player or, you know, what difference types it of encoding should be used in this player or that player, he has knowledge on all of those. he is very, and a great marketing, it is a blendf both. >> and fair good sense of design too. >> exactly. >> when people talk about comparing zrling a and larry and steve jobs what they say. >> one of the smart things that former vice president steve gore who is on the board of apple and close advisor to googem over the years said to me, these are brilliant guys. the dierence between the google guys and steve jobs is that steve had a great setback in his life. and when he lost control of apple and you know, in '97 and from that or actually earlier than '97, 95ee. he camback in '97. he said that experiee of loss, that punch in the nose

gave him an experience and sense of humility and a-- it prepared him better for the battles ahead. >> when you look at inventors from the wright brothers to the stevjobs, they really had this psion for what they were doing. yeah, they wanted to make money, probably. but it was really about the passio and that really is part of what makes us great. >> you reminded me because it's in the book about remembering what steve jobs said. he said it in a famous speech he made. at the standford business school. >> yeah. >> rose: what he said about the most freeing time for him was when he was-- he had lost his company. >> he was sacked from apple. >> rose: he was sacked from apple and had to sort of start all over. >> yup. >> rose: and he went and bought and created pixar and then got back at apple. but what did he say about that period. >> he said that he suddenly felt a great lightness of being freed of this, you

know, this success. and that after having this success, that he w suddenly free to reinvent himself. to do what he wanted to do. to be creative. and you know, i really do think that is an applicable lesson to us as individuals as we've been knocked off our horses this last year, and as a country. >> friends who knesteve jobs and journalists who wrote about him, there will be much written about steve jobs including the upcoming biography by walter isaacson. and this magazine just ou, bloomberg magazine in which they quote steve job talking about living and dying saying remembering that you are going to die, the best way i know to avoid the tra ofhinking you have something to lose. you' already naked. there's no reason not to follow your heart. that comes from the standford university commencement speech and we repeat some of that now. >> no one wants to die. even people who want to go to heaven don't want to die

to get there. and yet, death is a destination we all share. no one has ever escaped it. and that is as it should be. because death is very likely the single best invention of life. it's life's change agent it clears out the old to page way for the new. right now the new isou. but some day not too long from now, you will gradually become the old and be cleared away. sorry to be so dramatic, but it's quite true. your time is limited. so don't waste i living someone else's life. don't be trapped by dogma which is living with the results of other people's thinking. don't let the noise of other's opinions drown out your own inner voice. and most important, have the courage to followour heart and intuition. they somehow already know what you truly want to become. everything else is secoary. >> rose: remembering and appreciating steve jobs, who

died this week at age 56. thank you for joining us. captioning sponsored by rose communications captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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